The key is to clean your terrain, NOT mess it up even more with heavy duty antibiotics.
Posts: 254 | From Westchester, NY | Registered: Jun 2009
| IP: Logged |
Brussels
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 13480
posted
unfortunately, I cannot watch it, patches. They block me from seeing it (I'm in Europe).
We all start to realize that anti-microbials are working less and less.
It's not only lyme, but also candida, herpes, Clostridium diff...
Dr. Rau in Paracelsius always says: lyme is not an infectious disease, but an immune disease. Strong immune systems never fall ill to lyme.
AIDS patients, if given only antimicrobials, anti virals, still die.
Lyme treatment is younger than AIDS treatment. Physicians only now are starting to realize the limitations of antimicrobial approaches in lyme.
A bit like cancer too. Functioning immune systems do not 'get' cancer either. Mainstream is treating cancer much longer than lyme.
Most still didn't change the paradigm, and keep attacking cancer cells, 'killing' them with drugs and radio.
Posts: 6200 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007
| IP: Logged |
randibear
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 11290
posted
my husband has been bit numerous times. no sign of lyme. he's like the energizer bunny. jus keeps going and going.
me? I get bit, have the rash and it's been a living hell ever since. I've had tons of treatment, cowden, abx, buhner, you name it.
go figure...
-------------------- do not look back when the only course is forward Posts: 12262 | From texas | Registered: Mar 2007
| IP: Logged |
Marz
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 3446
posted
Is he saying that protein isn't necessary?
I understand cleansing with a fruit diet but how does one build new tissue with fruit only.
He's inspiring me to increase fruit in my diet though but think muscles would get weaker without protein
He mentions when he went to his sister's for thanksgiving,Turkey smelled so good so he ate some first time in years and it made his mouth feel awful.
Posts: 1302 | From USA | Registered: Dec 2002
| IP: Logged |
Tincup
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5829
posted
Sorry, Lyme doctors are not "all wrong".
We know this because there are tens of thousands who have been successfully treated using the knowledge and tools they have.
Is there more to learn? Yes.
Is there more than one opinion out there? Yes.
Do we have to gear treatment to fit each individual's complex situation? Yes.
posted
What he is saying that the most important thing is to detox your body and get it moved to an alkaline rather than an acid condition. Antibiotics are very acid causing.
Posts: 254 | From Westchester, NY | Registered: Jun 2009
| IP: Logged |
posted
I second Tincup. You sent an odd message to me Patches re: if I was seriously ready to heal come to this site-btw, I've not gone there. I'd like to know your background.
A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing especially when you assert that some of the most knowledgeable people I have come across that have quite frankly saved my life- have it all wrong.
There are really sick people that come to this site looking for help and to assert what you have is hardly okay.
(breaking up the post for easier reading for many here)
posted
Okay-please tell me if the llmds emphasize detoxing and making body alkaline?
If they are-great, otherwise they are missing the boat. Few will get well unless the body is alkaline.
Posts: 254 | From Westchester, NY | Registered: Jun 2009
| IP: Logged |
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Q: " . . . -please tell me if the llmds emphasize detoxing and making body alkaline? . . ." (end quote)
Yes, along with directly, specifically & assertively addressing the actual infections,
LLMDs have been emphasizing such for at least 20 years. It's been a cornerstone of Dr. B's protocol from the start with his emphasis on liver support [a foundation to help the body detoxify metabolic waste] & key nutrients for many other reasons also connected to healthy cellular support, etc.
And every book by every ILADS LLMD or LL ND emphasizes such as well. That's also why green plants are said to be so very vital, to help with the pH balance. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
| IP: Logged |
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- A top LL journalist who speaks from both research and her personal journey:
For patients with tick-borne diseases, the path to health can be confounding. Combining integrative and conventional approaches may be the best way forward.
. . . What’s more, many of these hard-to-treat patients, like Makris, turn out to have co-infections transmitted by the same black-legged ticks that gave them Lyme — infections that don’t always respond to treatments for Lyme disease itself.
The blood parasite Babesia, for example, must be treated with antimalarial medications.
And, the co-infections Anaplasma and Ehrlichia do not respond to amoxicillin, a first-line antibiotic often used for Lyme.
Even if these and other co-infections are addressed, [Dr. H] says patients can stay sick for many reasons beyond simple infection itself. . . .
See all THREE posts here by Pamela Weintraub (who is a LL journalist who recovered from lyme - and write about her entire family dealing with it in "Cure Unknown" book) -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
| IP: Logged |
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- For anyone new to lyme, the first two places to learn more:
and if one is looking for a naturopathic approach, in addition to full acquaintance with literature at both sites above:
- When considering herbal / nutritional / adjunct methods, because lyme is so very complex & unique, as are possible coinfections:
if at all possible - because each person & each case is different - it's best to consult with an ILADS-educated LL ND (lyme literate naturopathic doctor) (or similar) who has completed four years of post-graduate medical education in the field of herbal and nutritional medicine -
- and someone who is current with ILADS' research & presentations, past and present, and has completed the ILADS Physician Training Program (see: www.ilads.org )
so they really know all they can about the science of lyme . . . how lyme (& other TBD) act and what we can do about that in various ways. Proper ASSESSMENT of not just lyme but coinfectoins is vital. Someone trained by ILADS is best to assess.
Many LL NDs incorporate antibiotics (depending upon the licensing laws in their state). Some LLMDs and LL NDs have good working relationships.
When possible, it's great to have both a LLMD and LL ND and even better when they have a long-standing professional relationship.
For those considering complementary support methods / or other avenues entirely:
Herbal Safety considerations & reference books; etc.
BOOKS - Links to many articles and books by holistic-minded LL doctors of various degrees who all have this basic approach in common:
knowing which methods offer assertive & direct impact, which are only support and which are both. And when to use what, how to combine, & when to step back.
You can compare and contrast many approaches with links to articles, books, methods . . . -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
Thanks, Keebler! Your tireless efforts and contribution to us all have never gone unnoticed and are greatly appreciated... New lymies- her post is where to start!
Posts: 859 | From Southeast | Registered: Mar 2011
| IP: Logged |
Marz
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 3446
posted
I've been watching a few of his videos and he does make sense about fruits making the body more alkaline than vegetables and that protein causes acidity.
It seems that an almost total fruit diet is what one must do according to him--not just for getting well but as a way of life.
I love fruit, but in the middle of watching a couple of hours of these, I got a horrible craving for potato chips!!!
So, Keebler, in your opinion, is it healthy to not eat protein?
I'm wondering why God created fish, chickens, etc if they weren't intended for us to eat?
So right now, I'm worried about eating the meatballs in my fridge and am afraid to eat them! lol!
Posts: 1302 | From USA | Registered: Dec 2002
| IP: Logged |
Marz
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 3446
posted
And he's even against grains and dried beans!
Posts: 1302 | From USA | Registered: Dec 2002
| IP: Logged |
randibear
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 11290
posted
fruit is really bad for people with candida. too much sugar.
-------------------- do not look back when the only course is forward Posts: 12262 | From texas | Registered: Mar 2007
| IP: Logged |
Bartenderbonnie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 49177
posted
Damn Marz,
Now I have a cankering for meatballs with a side of chips.
Thanks. Posts: 3217 | From Florida | Registered: Nov 2016
| IP: Logged |
posted
Fruits are only one part of the detox process. Herbs and fasting and enemas are important too.
Fasting is the most important as you let you organs rest.
Google Master Fast System. This is one big step beyond a fruit diet. Then access the Facebook entry and listen to those who have healed from every so called disease.
Diseases are only obstructions in the body. Doctors categorize diseases because they do understand that these "diseases" are really obstructions.
True health is removing the obstructions. Only a total detox can remove the obstructions.
Proteins and complex carbs contribute to the problem. Emotions too.
Posts: 254 | From Westchester, NY | Registered: Jun 2009
| IP: Logged |
posted
Lyme disease and all its co infections are really only symptoms of an obstructed body that cannot handle the interference=whether it is Lyme or any other problem
Posts: 254 | From Westchester, NY | Registered: Jun 2009
| IP: Logged |
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- "They come from blocked lymph systems." (end quote)
Actually, these infections most often can be one of the major CAUSES of blocked lymph systems.
The "thick" or "sticky" blood that Babesia and other TBD cause really "clogs" up lymph. Just one aspect of the complex workings. Inflammation from infection, too. The toxicity of the infections as well.
It is important to specifically address all aspects of infection -- and alongside that - correct health habits, nutrition & employ support measures concurrently. There are various ways to do this as the "How to Find a LL ND" thread helps to show. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
Healing is very pluralistic in approach. I know people who have gotten through severe neurolyme after around 10 months on IV rocephin. There are many who come to a top Lyme doctor here who does great with antibiotic combos.
Me, I'm allergic to antibiotics and cannot take them, along with others who cannot and do herbs and other things.
I've always thought healing from Lyme happens in three arenas - kill/deter the organisms, detox, and fortify the body. Some of us are good detoxers genetically and some of us aren't. That's going to make a difference in ability to heal.
Some of us have candida and we're not supposed to have much fruit, or at all in the beginning phase.
It all depends on what we're dealing with.
Posts: 13171 | From San Francisco | Registered: May 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
Candida is an acid condition. Fruits are alkalining.
Fruits are really good for this condition-try it before you listen to the "experts".
Posts: 254 | From Westchester, NY | Registered: Jun 2009
| IP: Logged |
posted
Patches- in all due respect- leave things to the experts. Healing is individual for each and every one of us. Giving your opinion as to what one should do in a poor health state is not considered expert and can be misleading at best. There are many sick with lyme that may not be able to handle a fast. Why not just post links and call it a day. After this horrendous journey and by God it is in large part due to the phenomenal information that can be found here, I've been able to dig myself out of this hole. I am not sure in good conscience you can post your opinion as truth and thus be willing to potentially put others in harms way. This thread needs to be looked at by the moderators. I am proud to say this is the first I've seen the likes of this.
Posts: 859 | From Southeast | Registered: Mar 2011
| IP: Logged |
Tincup
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5829
posted
Patches- when you find something that works for you please feel free to share it.
Don't, however, say that it is right and everything else and everyone else is wrong. That is where so many members are having a problem.
You sound so desperate to get people to agree with you about fruit fasting, so much so you even said over 10,000 people follow your guy on Facebook.
Not being a Facebook person, I randomly picked what I felt to be a kind of off-the-wall thing and checked its numbers as a comparison.
It said... "1,100,662 people like this and 1,063,804 people follow this" on the FB page.
Does this mean others should follow it too?
Does it mean this is what we should all be doing?
I hope not or we'd all be driving Monster Trucks. My point is- it is not for everyone.
Again, feel free to offer your ideas, but please don't kick others in the head when doing so or make generalized statements that are just plain wrong.
That is not the way to get your message taken seriously.
I agree-find what works for you. I only offer these thoughts for those who want an alternative to some of the persons who do not find their health from the "typical antibiotic" solution.
Again it is there for anyone to understand. Most have no idea that the kidney/lymphatic system IS the way to clean and detox to health. And Lyme, though very painful, is the body reacting to a system that is not capable of attacking it because the body is very toxic and just not working well.
Posts: 254 | From Westchester, NY | Registered: Jun 2009
| IP: Logged |
For those who want more information...
Posts: 254 | From Westchester, NY | Registered: Jun 2009
| IP: Logged |
ukcarry
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 18147
posted
I think that most people here already realise the importance of detoxing and draining in tandem with addressing pathogens and modulating the immune system.
Maybe people reacted to your comments more because your tone comes across as so categorical.
Posts: 1647 | From UK | Registered: Nov 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
Both my LLMD and my Lyme Literate Integrative doctor have been stressing and teaching about detox and alkalizing the body. Supplements, the proper sauna to use, what to eat and not to eat, everything. They have not been "wrong" about anything.
Posts: 145 | From Midwest | Registered: Sep 2015
| IP: Logged |
Brussels
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 13480
posted
Yep, lyme is CERTAINLY an immune disease ALSO.
Randi says: husband gets bitten, never falls ill.
My husband rarely gets bitten, but he did get at least once. He didn't fall sick.
It took us one bite to put us in either wheelchair or bedbound (daughter and I).
Next bites were hell. On and on. Rarely we got bites that didn't make us ill.
With the years, treatment, detox, mouth, cavitations, chelation, psychotherapies, building the gut... tick bites became less and less dangerous to us.
To the point that they only rarely makes us sick now.
If drs knew that many people can get bitten by dozens of ticks and never fall ill they would THINK better before concentrating MOSTLY on anti-microbials.
As Carry said, today more and more drs are concentrating also on detox and immune modulating.
Killing pathogens are, in my opinion, PART of detox (because they lower herxes), and PART OF immuno-modulating, because they take a burden of the immune system. Not an end it itself.
I agree with fasting as an excellent way to again set the immune system and detox system back alive. It is the fastest way to control+alt+del the body.
I WISH I could eat only fruits and veggies.
When I'm FLARING, this is IMPOSSIBLE. I flare even more with fruits (veggies make the opposite, flares lower).
When I'm not flaring and I do not have inflammation, eating fruits and veggies is a blessing.
It is truly a blessing, it makes me feel in paradise, I feel every bit of nourishment in the fresh juices from each bite.
I know people who can't even eat green leaves: they can't digest them anymore. Their guts are so bad they can't digest ANYTHING raw.
This is bad, as many vitamins are in raw foods. But they have no choice than eat overcooked food.
As much as I have no choice than lower my amount of delicious fruits when I'm flaring or fighting active candida.
Avoiding cytokine cascading, like Buhner said, is a must for us fighting infections and inflammation.
Cytokine storms are very harmful to ORGANS and CELLS. Very. You don't need infections to get damaged: only a bad allergic reaction or auto-immune conditions will ruin your life, and even 'cause' cancer in the end.
Ideally we should all be back to natural ways, probably a paleolithic type of diet or even before when we were still becoming humans...., but our illnesses are not clement.
Fasting though, I think, goes well with any type of body (not with any type of mind!!!). People's mind block fasting, because of many reasons!
but it's one of the most potent techniques to bring some hope and energy back, short term. I was very surprised to realize my body's software was not totally broken as I thought, just because of fasting.
Posts: 6200 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007
| IP: Logged |
randibear
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 11290
posted
fruits for candida. sorry I jus cant buy that
-------------------- do not look back when the only course is forward Posts: 12262 | From texas | Registered: Mar 2007
| IP: Logged |
Razzle
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 30398
posted
Hmmm...alkalizing a person with overload of ammonia (an alkali substance) is a BAD idea...and Lyme produces an abundance of ammonia. For those with ammonia detox issues, alkalization can make them worse.
BTW, my Dad was a fruitarian for a while. He loved it, said he felt wonderful eating that way. I think this is because he was no longer eating gluten (I suspect he had silent Celiac Disease). So I have to wonder how much of this fruitarian advice is based on what a person is NOT eating once they switch to mostly fruit, vs. the fruit itself.
I know fruit has lots of good nutrients, but as others have stated, nutritional need is individual - a body builder would not be able to be a fruitarian, there simply is not enough protein or calories in fruit to satisfy the body's need in that scenario.
Also, it is dangerous for some people to fast...genetics is one factor in this, but there are other factors, too. People with porphyria, mitochondrial disorders, blood sugar control issues (diabetes, hypoglycemia), etc., need to be very careful about fasting or should not fast at all.
And now there are more and more GMO foods out there to watch out for (and they're not required to be labeled as GMO) - Arctic apples, for instance, have been genetically engineered to not brown when cut open. These GMO apples have been approved for sale by the FDA...
I think the best take-away from this stuff is that one needs to know their own body well enough to determine what of this info is applicable and possibly helpful to them. It is a very individual thing, treatment, detoxing, etc., must be customized to each individual person.
Just my $.02...
:)
-------------------- -Razzle Lyme IgM IGeneX Pos. 18+++, 23-25+, 30++, 31+, 34++, 39 IND, 83-93 IND; IgG IGeneX Neg. 30+, 39 IND; Mayo/CDC Pos. IgM 23+, 39+; IgG Mayo/CDC Neg. band 41+; Bart. (clinical dx; Fry Labs neg. for all coinfections), sx >30 yrs. Posts: 4167 | From WA | Registered: Feb 2011
| IP: Logged |
Brussels
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 13480
posted
Fasting comes naturally when the body is not hungry any more.
In acute diseases, many children, animals, adults fast without calling that 'fast'.
we all fasted, for sure, in our lives, when we got sick.
it's not always something you plan to do: your body simply refuses food at a certain point.
You can try to convince children and pets that they have genetic problems or that fasting is not good for them.
But the point is, that is one of the ways we naturally react to some illnesses, usually, acute illnesses.
Fasting will give the body more energy, initially , to fight what it is fighting.
Just look at animals and children: try to push them food when they are ill!
You have to inject them food through IV!!
After fasting, comes hunger. Exactly when the person / animal feels somewhat better.
Not before.
Before natural instincts prevent you from eating! Until you get better. Then you can spend energy with digestion, breaking up food, processing the left overs and toxins out of the body.
Before, during illness, many children naturally fast, and so do animals. And adults!
------------------------------ I have porphyria (KPU/HPU), I had CFS (now I call it fatigue only), I'm EXTREMELY THIN and small body, underweight my whole life.
One of the indicated treatments for diabetes is FASTING. I heard Mercola talking about that, that intermittent fasting can reverse diabetes sometimes!
This is because it can 'cure' leptin-resistance.
Fasting was beneficial in surprising ways, even though I THOUGHT it could kill me.
I simply felt food was not good anymore, so i decided to stop for a few HOURS.
Yes, you can do fasting that lasts just hours, like eating just once a day, for example.
This is ALSO fasting.
It's also a way to see if you feel OK during a fast. ---------------
If you feel okay, and continue fasting...
By day 3, be prepared for an intense detox reaction. INTENSE.
You think your urine will come out clear, as you eat nothing just drink: WRONG.
The urine comes in a deep color I had never seen before.
Maybe that is THE main power of fasting: it re-sets your body's detox pathways.
If you have porphyria, KPU /HPU, you know that you detox badly, from start. My urine has ALWAYS been like water, barely any color. Always, as long as I can remember.
In the last years, the problem was solved. I don't know if it was solved with fasting or with my violet ray, but the truth is I'm able to detox much better than I could before, during lyme.
--------------------------- My opinion: continue doing as you always did, prepare then to continue with illness.
Unlocking reasons why our bodies do not work as they should, trying to re-set our bodies is THE hardest thing to do.
Give the body supplements: it dumps them back, without using them. The supplements will not necessarily correct a broken software.
Fasting was for me one of the most surprising and simple ways to change my internal software, that I thought it was LONG broken.
while it may not work for everybody, for me, it was really worth.
Posts: 6200 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
Patches, there is something that we have all learned here - that treatment is individual and it needs to fit for the person. A particular treatment does not work for all. We offer suggestions and ideas here, but also discuss them for their appropriate applications.
For example, as I mentioned above, someone with candida would not eat fruit, but for someone not dealing with candida, it wouldn't matter so much.
Someone needing nutrition should not fast, but someone who's gotten good nutrition in could probably do a fast ok for a little while. Etc, etc.
Posts: 13171 | From San Francisco | Registered: May 2006
| IP: Logged |
The key is to clean your terrain, NOT mess it up even more with heavy duty antibiotics.
Patches--- I agree with you-- detoxification of the body and the lymph system is of major importance.. I took heavy duty antibiotics for 2 years, and I still have chronic Lyme--- and now I have Morgellons.
Fact: Most Lyme victims who worship at the altar of the "medical" priesthood --- have NOT BEEN CURED of chronic Lyme-- yet they persist in fruitless worship of, and devotion to---MDs-- who are the marketing arm of Rockefeller pharmaceutical companies.
The US medical system is set up to SELL DRUGS and make a PROFIT-- NOT to cure. Americans have been puppy trained to worship "medical authorities" even when these authorities have been repeatedly proven to be wrong --- and also when they lack scientific evidence for their wild claims--- like the IDSA's junk science, "chronic lyme doesn't exist" claim. LOL...
Remember when doctors actually promoted smoking??? LOL!!
Its actually quite sad how willingly people allow themselves to be brainwashed by so called "authorities" who are greed driven marketing wings of the medical establishment.
Americans will jump off a cliff if the "medical authority" instructs them to do so. We have all been trained to worship doctors by TV shows like Marcus Welby, Ben Casey, General Hospital and Dr. Kildare.
Naturopaths are trying to break us out of this paradigm-- but unfortunately they are being attacked--- big time by the mainstream medical community..
Posts: 696 | From New York | Registered: Aug 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
All Lyme patients who are "cured" please stand up...
Posts: 254 | From Westchester, NY | Registered: Jun 2009
| IP: Logged |
TF
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 14183
posted
I was cured in 13 months by going to a Burrascano type doctor.
I have been cured for 12 years now. I have gone through extreme stress, oral steroid treatments for sinus problems, and at least 3 different times had steroid injections in my spine and still my symptoms have not come back.
I have the same brain and life I had before lyme disease.
I had undiagnosed lyme, babs, and bart for at least 10 years before a doctor thought to test me for lyme. Still, I got well.
Then, I sent at least 5 of my friends to Burrascano type lyme doctors and they also got well. And, my lyme doctor had lyme and he got cured.
So, I believe in the Burrascano protocol because I have seen it work over and over again.
It is a 4 pronged approach:
antibiotics diet supplements, and a certain type of exercise to boost the immune system (one continuous hour of weightlifting every other day)
It takes all 4 prongs for the protocol to work.
Posts: 9931 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
| IP: Logged |
The Lyme Disease Network is a non-profit organization funded by individual donations. If you would like to support the Network and the LymeNet system of Web services, please send your donations to:
The
Lyme Disease Network of New Jersey 907 Pebble Creek Court,
Pennington,
NJ08534USA http://www.lymenet.org/
Topic Closed
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
![[bonk]](graemlins/bonk.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic