ok, hubbie's sister is married to a very abusive man.
he recently attacked her again and she had to fight him off with a knife.
she served papers on him this week and is staying in the house.
she's legally blind and can see ok in the day but not at night.
the lawyer told her that she cannot leave because it would be considered desertion and she would forfeit any rights to any money or possessions. also she cannot claim physical abuse until he attacks her and beat her up so she has proof. he said she should let him beat her up and then call police....
excuse me? is this sort of like saying "oh wait untill he cuts your head off, then we'll believe you."....grrrr...
guess the courts won't believe a woman until she's dead huh?
her son's have said they will testify, they've older, in their 30's, but she doesn't want anyone to get involved.
....i'd be terrified.
any advice...
Posted by Starfall1969 (Member # 17353) on :
I wish I had some advice for you.
What a horrible situation, and what BS your SIL is being given!
I don't understand the whole "wait till things get out of hand before we can do anything" mentality.
We went through this kind of garbage with my SIL, who was emotionally abusive to her husband and kids. Because it wasn't physical, we couldn't prove it, so nothing was done.
Even when she got a job as a police officer and used her handcuffs to restrain her son and then threatened him with a gun, even bragging about what she did in front of the judge, nothing was done.
I swear the courts are so messed up that you can't even trust them for justice.
I'll pray for your situation. In the meantime, is there any kind of domestic violence support group that your SIL ccan seek help from? They may know of some way to get her the help she needs before her husband kills her.
Posted by lostgurl (Member # 19293) on :
My gosh.. the legal system is horrible. What
Starfall said- the emotional aspect is TERRIBLE
to prove and almost impossible. As far as your
SIL- can she or someone predict this (horrible)
and call the cops or has that ever happened? All
documentation helps, I know you folks probably
already know this.. A hidden video camera (it's
been done) and as long as someone knows they are
being recorded if it's a digital voice recorder
(easy to hide by the way) IE- usually they are
alcoholic and the person this is happening to
can say 'what would anyone think if they heard
you or saw you doing this to me' and 9 times out
of 10- the abusive individual will say 'I don't
care, go ahead' or something really bold that
has them, acknowledging on tape that they are
aware or have been warned.. On video, I don't
think they have to be 'aware' or be smartly
told... I know it sounds crazy but -trust me- it
has worked so so many abused wives who could
never prove anything...
She served him papers for divorce or a
restraining order? No police calls or ERM
records/ pictures after an episode?
I swear, getting proof is terribly tough but it
CAN be done if she has some help.. Am praying
for her.. The first thing I would say is a shelter if she
can't get him out by force-by calling the cops.
I know legally they consider it abandonment,
moreso with kids not adults at ALL -- what will
happen is, if she HAS to get out (she does) get
her out, all will be proven LATER and worked out
in her favor, with witnesses/her sons/etc... She needs to be alive and not worry about putting
anyone out.. you are a great friend and family
member.. those who are abused are conditioned to
think they aren't worth helping or wouldn't dare
ask to get children involved. She raised them,
and , I am sure they owe that to their mother.. I
feel really strongly about this, have dealt with
people in this situation time and time again..
How old is she- elderly abuse has great state
resources.. Definitely call a local social worker
at the nearest hospital (usually one is on
on weekends or there) and they are walking
encyclopedias for emergent resources and are more
than happy to do it.. no matter who the caller
is.. I know that was alot to digest, and like my
second post here. Sorry, pretty passionate about
this and so many things so went off a bit.
Get the camera out or get her out if she can't
force him or have him arrested.. Bless you for
helping her-sounds like even if she has to
leave, she has enough witnesses to get her the
house and be rid of that abuse once and for all.
[ 03-02-2009, 12:37 AM: Message edited by: lostgurl ]
Posted by randibear (Member # 11290) on :
she has mentioned divorce twice before but never did anything.
he's raped her and her sons had to pull him off her...it's so sad....
she has never filed or called the police. says she doesn't want anyone to get involved.
i told her "look, we'll pay for the airline ticket, take a leave of absence from your job and come down her." he wouldn't dare mess with mike...
but she won't...grrr...
i think that lawyer is crazy, but apparently he's right. we asked mike's son, a cop in dayton, and he said you have to have documented proof of abuse, without it, no go....
she says she has a bag by the front door but hey, sweetie, what if you're attacked and can't get out of the house?
sounds like she doesn't want anybody interferring, but geez, do you want to just get murdered and raped?
i don't understand....course my hubbie has been pretty verbally abusive, but lately has been much much better.
but then hey, he's starting to have obvious signs of lyme, so maybe he's more understanding now....
but i am afraid for her....
sigh...
another case of having to let that pony run......
Posted by Melodymaker (Member # 16434) on :
Although your SIL doesn't want the boys to testify, if they are willing it could actually be good for them.
When the kids are witness to abuse and can't stop it, it leaves them with a very powerless feeling.
Now they have the power to do something. That could be very theraputic. And if they are willing to testify then the don't care about relationship with the father.
Having the sons testify is a good avenue. Also, does she have any medical records from past incidences?
Unfortunately, abused women often cannot cut loose themselves. They are afraid or locked into the pattern. They keep believeing the abuser will change, or that it is their own fault.
Suggest she gets help from an abused women's shelter. They can advise her best. They know the ropes, and can give her emotional support and strength.
Posted by lostgurl (Member # 19293) on :
Sorry, I edited that post and still looks long and lacking in width.. need to read the 'how tos' Posted by shelly23 (Member # 16124) on :
My BA is in counsling.. there are alot of of local groups were ppl live that helps battered men and woman... they help from counsling to money to jobs or evens "secret' homes. I know this is not legal advice, but her mental health is also an issue..... if you google her area there should be at least on local group.. sometimes they even have pro bono lawyers who specailize in this ....
Posted by Starfall1969 (Member # 17353) on :
You said her husband raped her.
As far as I amm aware, even a spouse is not allowed legally to rape you, so she could have gone to the hospital and pressed charges.
That would be proof of what's going on.
Heck of a thing to have to do, but I would say if it happens again, she should go to the hospital and report it.
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
Every state's laws are different. Those sound like some pretty horrible laws there!! YIKES!!!!
I hope she can get some help.... before it's too late.
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
-
Why can't she file a restraining order prohibiting him from coming to the house ?
You said "she served papers on him this week and is staying in the house."
Filed WHAT papers? restraining order? Divorce.
I'd have her consult a domestic abuse attorney. Pronto.
-
Posted by Geneal (Member # 10375) on :
There are other options besides staying and taking it.
Raping his wife?
Sick puppy.
Your sister has to want help though.
Why won't she leave or file for seperation with a restraining order?
Abusive relationships are often ones that involve some
Type of co-dependency, or no feelings of "worth".
I'll pray for her.
Hugs,
Geneal
Posted by lpkayak (Member # 5230) on :
its a really sad situation-but it does go both ways. 20 years ago my brother's wife was abusing the kids. the lawyer said there was no way he would get the kids until she hurt HIM. so he didn't divorce her-knowing she would still have th kids and hurt them.
he told his lawyer everytime there was an incident and it was documented-but months went on before she attacked him with a tire iron and broke his nose. he called the lawyer from the hospital and the lawyer finall y said they had enough so he ended up with the kids and raised them alone until he remarried a few years later.
but the system stinks! the kids were hurt for months longer than they had to be. and what if she had killed him??? then he would be gone and she would end up with the kids.
this was 20 yrs ago...i thought it had gotten a little better. maybe not.
Posted by MY3BOYS (Member # 17830) on :
i dont know if she lives in the same state
(guess not if gonna fly her??) but tx laws on
this issue are horrible!! have not had personal
experience with this but have had professional
where a patient spouse called drunk saying if
someone did not get his wife out he would shoot
her, then neighbor called saying he did have
loaded gun and very drunk. called the cops and
they would not even respond, refused to go out
to the house, said call back if he does kill
her!!! i was horrified, called 911 and they
refused to take to hosp. and left, said was not
a medical emergency--even when the husband
continued to tell them ill kill her if u leave
her there. it took a good APS worker to get the
city to pay for ambulance to get her out, the
husband was overwhelmed and could not care for
her and it was the only thing he knew to do to
get her the care she needed. it was eye opening!!
what does she have to loose if she leaves the
house?? if there is only the house to settle on
in a divorce then why stay?? her life is worth
more than money issues. abused women have very
poor self worth, self esteem, and thinking
independantly. a shelter could save her life as
well as the support groups involved with these
where she can learn that she is not alone in
this happening. A psych eval may help as well if
any charges/ court issues can arise, there is a
profile to battered women
so sorry for this to be happening to someone you
love. i would be beside myself in ur shoes
any chance of just going and getting her? and
does she own a gun? ( sorry, texan talkin-- that was probably bad)
could one of her sons stay with her?
i hope this turns out ok and not becoming another statistic.
Posted by s0ngbird1962 (Member # 16395) on :
1st marriage, was 15 years in an abusive marriage. Left when my son was 10. (Straw that broke camels back was spousal rape)
Brother is a cop, cousin is a priet. But never called them, never told family. Told one friend and kept a journal for 5 years.
Got a lawyer on retainer & had him served divorce papers. (Suddenly he wanted to go to counseling after I begged him to go for years).
Agreed to go to counseling, he admitted abusing me. He agreed to go to anger management ONLY if I agreed to call off divorce. I didn't agree.
I continued with therapy while going through the divorce process, he continued being an ***. At one point, was carrying loaded 45mm handgun. Told my therapist who called his lawyer.
Filed in Sept.- divorced 4 months later in January. Received house & son... eventually moved because he wouldn't leave me alone.
10 years later, we've both moved on....
Advice? Staying until he beats you is crazy. MOVE, ASAP. (friend, family, shelter). Leave when he is at work. Go to the bank & take 1/2 money. (I did).
Get another lawyer, (I'd suggest a female one), file divorce papers & have him served. Many men are better behaved once in the legal system, they know people are watching.
Physical abuse is a secret thing, not so happy when their dirty secret is exposed.
Sons are 30, (adults) let them testify if it comes to that.
Get a po box so all correspondence with lawyer is private.
She's lucky to have your support, but doesn't sound like she's ready to leave. Sounds like she's making LOTS of excuses to stay.
Posted by swachsler (Member # 18155) on :
Hi Randibear,
I'm so sorry to hear that this is happening. This is such a complex, painful issue. I've been disabled since I was a young adult (before I got Lyme) and was actually working in disability services before I got sick, myself. In my job, I was a mandatory reporter of any suspected abuse.
Violence in intimate relationships is always a nightmare. When the victim is disabled, it's even more complicated. I don't know your sister-in-law, but many people with disabilities, including blindness, rely on partners for independent living assistance, such as reading her mail, driving her, or other forms of caretaking. Also, there's the attitudinal/self-esteem issues that people w/disabilities are already so severely undervalued and often lack a sense of self-worth. The abuse further erodes any feelings of empowerment and worth. It makes it all that much harder.
If you contact me with where your SIL lives, I can find out which CIL (center for independent living) serves her area. From them, hopefully, she can get referrals to battered women's programs that are accessible and/or knowledgeable about disability. CILs can often provide skills training and peer counseling, which might help her to feel more able to break free and live on her own.
Every state also has adult protective services for people with disabilities. This is like the services for children or elders who are abused. People with disabilities, aged 18 to 59, can receive help -- if they choose -- to escape abuse from a caregiver. "Caregiver" can be defined broadly, and if your BIL provides any assistance with IADLs/ADLs (incidental/activities of daily living), he can be considered a caregiver. Unlike child protective services, adults with disabilities cannot be forced into protective care, but if someone reports it, the agency is mandated at least to contact her (in a careful and discreet way) and offer her help.
Your statewide domestic violence hotline should also be able to provide you with resources, legal information, etc. As others have said, rape is certainly a form of physical assault, although it's notoriously difficult to prove, especially when it's not stranger rape. Nonetheless, if she's willing to speak to someone in the domestic violence unit of her police department, they are often kind and supportive; she just has to get past the desk sergeant to the right person. If you could speak to someone in the domestic violence unit and get their name and extension, at least your SIL would have that info, if she chose to use it at some point.
As to what the lawyer said, that's beyond my ken, but my question is: "What kind of lawyer?" Lawyers each have their own specialty areas. Is this a lawyer who specializes in domestic violence? Sounds more like a divorce lawyer. She should really talk to a lawyer who knows about battering. Battered women's services or domestic violence unit of police can probably give a referral.
As others have said, she has to be ready to leave. But anything you can do to let her know that you care AND do not judge her for whatever decisions she makes (no matter how bizarre they seem to you), the more likely that, if/when she is able to get help, she will reach out.
It's extremely lonely and isolating to be in an abusive relationship, and she probably has a lot of shame. Whatever you can do to just listen supportively and make it clear you have no judgment, just reaffirming that she is worthy of love and respect (without saying negative things about the batterer -- hard as that is, because then she will likely feel compelled to defend him) is the best you can do for her.
I wish you and your family good luck, and safety.
Posted by randibear (Member # 11290) on :
thank you all for your support. i'll clear up some things.
she filed divorce papers on him, and yes, is staying in the house.. says she has bag by the door.
doesn't want to get anyone "involved". i don't understand this at all.
i consider him violent.
oh get this. he has a friend and when they took a vacation, the friend and him stayed in one room and his wife had a separate room by herself. man, strange, strange....
you know you can tell a person all this and if they don't do anything, well, you just have to let it go.
i asked mike to call his sister and check on her and his response was "look, it's her problem. she has to handle it. i'm not going to call and bug her. she'll figure it out and if she doesn't, well, it's her fault."
so what can i do?
i guess i'll stop worrying if the sun is going t come up tomorrow.....
oh, yes, this was a divorce lawyer. one her mother's lawyer referred her to. i wanted her to consult a different lawyer, but oh no, who am i, some stupid little no nothing. although i worked at a social service agency for years...duh....
and she paid this idiot 3 grand up front for advice....
now who's being stupid, here?
sorry, i'm just fed up...
mad at my husband for not helping, mad at her for getting everybody upset and then doing nothing, and mad at myself for even giving a damn...
Posted by aklnwlf (Member # 5960) on :
Randibear,
I went through something similar with my own sister.
After years of hearing about how bad her spouse was treating her and trying to get her to leave (which didn't work), I finally told her not to tell me anything anymore.
Told her I was sick and tired of getting so upset that I wanted to kill her husband and that if she wanted to stay in that situation not to tell me what was going on.
Also let her know that if and when she did decide to leave that I'd be there to help.
Which I was. After 15 years she finally left him when he had an affair with a teenager whom he refused to stop seeing.
He thought that she'd take it because she had taken everything else.
Thank God there was a final straw that broke the camel's back in her case before something else happened.
Hope this helps!
Posted by kam (Member # 3410) on :
I haven't read what others wrote. But, I did hear today that 2/3rd go back to the abusive husband several times.
Some of the Domestic Violence hot lines help get them connected and educated and counsel.
But, she needs to be willing to do this.
I have tried to call for people myself in the past and was told they need to make the contact themselves.
My thinking was it would be great if they would just go out and talk with the person while the husband was at work.
Let them know what their options were. But, they said they did not work that way.
Posted by hshbmom (Member # 9478) on :
Please ask your sister to contact the Domestic Violence Center or Women's Shelter.
They can refer her to a good attorney.
They can tell her her rights and what steps to take to prepare for leaving him. She must be willing to act; you can only offer support and encouragement.
She should be able to file a restraining order to keep him away, but he may not comply with the order. He could come & kill her.
Posted by shazdancer (Member # 1436) on :
Quoting alknwlf:
quote:He thought that she'd take it because she had taken everything else.
That to me is the heart of it right there. As long as he thinks she will take it, he will dish it out.
![[dizzy]](graemlins/dizzy.gif)