I have received a private message criticizing me for posting about the animal victims of Hurricane Katrina and for not caring about the human victims, including insinuatins of racism.
I certainly did not mean to offend anyone with my posts urging animal lovers not to forget the animals, and providing ways that they could help.
Please remember that these pets belong to human evacuees, many of whom are just as distraught over the loss of their pets as they would be over the loss of their family and friends. These people have lost everything else. They should not have to lose their pets, too, if it is possible to save them.
If you have any doubts about that, read some of the message boards where people are pleading for the rescue groups to save their pets.
Following was my response to that message:
<< I respect your opinion/criticism, but please be reassured that I care about the people, too. Because there are so many resources dedicated to the rescue and relief of the human victims, I have chosen to focus most of my energy on the animal victims.
I have posted similarly about helping human evacuees on local listservs, forwarding information about how people can help the people who have arrived here in Austin. Since there probably isn't anyone on Lymenet who can go the Austin Convention Center to fold sheets, sort clothes, or help evacuees with data entry, I haven't posted about that here.
Suzanne >>
[ 11. September 2005, 08:06 PM: Message edited by: tickedntx ]
Posted by tickedntx (Member # 5660) on :
Here is one story with a happy ending. I will post more as I come across them:
September 8, 2005, 6 p.m.: Distraught Couple Reunited With Forcibly Abandoned Animals; Officials Continue Heavy-Handed Evacuations of Vulnerable Animal Guardians
One of the more heartbreaking tales reported out of the Gulf Coast this week was that of Slidell, Louisiana, residents Valerie Bennett and her family. Ms. Bennett had offered her evacuators both her own wedding ring and her mother's wedding ring in an attempt to gain permission to bring her two dogs, cat, and guinea pig along when she and her ill husband, Lorne, were rescued from a flooded New Orleans hospital. The officials would not budge. She and her husband could only bring one item with them, and Mr. Bennett, a liver transplant recipient, needed medicine to survive. They, like thousands of others in New Orleans and beyond, were forced to leave their animals behind, seemingly to die.
Today it was reported that Mr. and Mrs. Bennett have been reunited with their four animals. According to the Associated Press, the couple headed to Atlanta, and the lucky animals were safely transported to a Texas veterinary clinic. A Houston couple who read of the Bennetts' plight offered to drive the animals to Atlanta to reunite the family. On Wednesday evening, Mr. and Mrs. Bennett were finally able to hug their beloved dogs, Oreo and Lady, as seen here.
But bad news continues to pour out of New Orleans. In the latest and perhaps most shocking example of officials' aggressive attempts to force these battered and in some cases elderly Americans to abandon their animals when evacuating, CNN reported the tale of a woman who identified herself as "Ms. Connie." The blind, elderly woman said she was repeatedly told to leave her guide dog behind in her rental home. The resolute preacher stood strong and told her evacuators that she would not leave without her companion. Ultimately, this courageous and compassionate woman won and was able to bring along the dog-who may well be her only surviving family member-when she left the city.
Posted by JillF (Member # 5553) on :
I cannot believe that!
The nerve of some ppl
Yes, all of us care about the humans in NO. But so many ppl are donating to help them and running stories on them - less than 1/2 of what is being done for humans is being done for the animals WHO HAVE NO WAY TO HELP THEMSELVES
They don't have family in another state to go to. They can't untie themselves from their yard or porch. They cannot open their front door to get out of their house. They cannot go into the fridge to get some water. They cannot scoop out their dog food to eat. Ppl have been seen shooting the dogs walking around for no reason.
Those rescuing the humans are NOT rescuing the animals. The animals swimming to rescue boats are being turned away.
I'm sure that all the pet owners out there are thrilled to see their pet survive. Many love their pets enough not to leave them. Many pets are part of their family.
It always amazes me how selfish humans can be
Posted by Kara Tyson (Member # 939) on :
I like pets as much as the next person, but people come first. Even dead people come first. Then pets.
After the people are rescued & after the dead are taken care of...then those who wish can concentrate on animals.
I am one selfish human being. You bet. I am a speciest.
Dogs tend to gather in packs and become dangerous to humans. These dogs should be shot.
There are alligators roaming looking for humans. Better that they eat the pets than the people...snowball included.
I dont think the person should have sent a private email. Be brave enough to add your posting to mine.
Posted by JillF (Member # 5553) on :
If I were dead and my dog was sitting in my house dying from lack of food or water, I would expect someone to rescue my LIVING pet instead of finding my DEAD body
Now, due to disease I would understand why collecting the bodies are extremely important
Unfortunately, many ppl really don't give a damn about pets. This is why so many dogs and cats are put to sleep every year. This is why pets are abandoned on the side of the road. This is why ppl don't neuter their pets and cause the population to skyrocket.
If it weren't for organizations, such as those rescuing these pets in NO, I can't even imagine what the stray pet population would be like.
And noone should be belittling or take it personal that certain ppl want to help the dying pets in NO. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean that that person is wrong
Posted by pq (Member # 6886) on :
People are a priority,pet/animals last.
Pet food companies, might consider donating animal biscuits, etc. All rescue personel can throw the biscuits to the stranded animals, since they can't rescue them.
Among those who should not be rescued are certain members of the idsa and the cdc; if dead in the water, leave 'em to the alligators and water moccasins. If alive, throw them some a dog biscuit, and say,"Annie, Annie, eh, Julio? No. Eh,uh, Otto? Are you O.K.?
[ 10. September 2005, 02:31 AM: Message edited by: pq ]
Posted by tickedntx (Member # 5660) on :
Petfinder discussion forums.
Posted by Softballmom (Member # 6235) on :
We have enouph organizations and means to take care of both cituations. I don't think the Vet's are lining up to help humans.
Just think if in this terrible tradgedy your best friend (pet)was left behind. Wouldn't you hope that someone help it.
Tickedntx, I think that is one of the rudest things I have ever heard. Even if I thought it, which I don't, I sure wouldn't be hurtfull enouph to send you a private massage.
I have eleven dogs and one cat. Luckily when we have been faced with hurricanes we have the means to make sure they are safe. Some of these people had trouble getting out themselves much less taking their pets.
Pets lend a great service to humanity. Not that they should be at the top of the priority list but they should have a representative like you Tickedntx, and others who have come to their aid.
I say shame on the person that sent you that message. Your priority might not be the same as theirs but who are they to judge you?
Don't change what you are doing and try to overlook the rif-raf.
Cindy
Posted by 24bit-moderate (Member # 7841) on :
Ticked, don't let the wacky, disgusting and evil anti-animal people get to you. You can always know someones true heart when you see how they react to animals. If a person treat kittens and dogs in high regard, gives them a lot of love, etc. you know they have a good heart and have a good heart towards people as well. Anti-animal people have complicated issues that are hard to understand, but they do deserve our prayers too.
You know the funny thing about the anti-animal folks is that they seem to see it as black and white. The animal rescuers actually help people too, because when they find an animal in a place where no other searchers have gone, they sometimes can find people. And they can radio in their location and they'll be immediately rescued. A lot of people that are trapped are with their animals and they're often barking. A dog can bark much louder and longer than a person can yell for help. I think the animals should be heard for peoples sake, as well.
[ 10. September 2005, 03:21 PM: Message edited by: 24bit-moderate ]
Posted by Kara Tyson (Member # 939) on :
If I had left my cat behind, I would much rather a rescuer get to a childor any other human being first than to rescue my cat.
I care for my pet. But she is a pet. She is not a child. She is not equal to a child or any other human being (no matter what PETA says).
In fact, if there were a family starving. I would rather them eat my cat than starve.
If I were starving, I would have eaten snowball.
Are we now a society that cares more for animals than for people?
Posted by tickedntx (Member # 5660) on :
Thank you to everyone out there who cares about the animals, too. My efforts are not deterred by detractors, and their comments do not diminish my resolve.
I think Softballmom said it very well when she reminded us that there are sufficient resources to address the needs of both humans and animals. In many cases, it is primarily a matter of the authorities just getting out of the way to allow the animal rescuers to do their work.
As we respond here and elsewhere about the need for compassion for and rescue of animal victims of this and other disasters, please keep in mind that animal lovers do themselves, and the animals, a tremendous disservice by responding to critics with venom and spite. It certainly won't change anyone's mind, and just contributes to the impression held by some people that we are just raving lunatics.
I understand the passion and temptation to respond this way, but it would be better to direct that energy towards something positive. Anyone interested can find ways to do that by visiting the Petfinder or similar forums.
The first rule of persuasion is that to get someone to where you are, you have to start where they are. Everyone, please remember this as you respond.
Please edit your message.
Posted by tickedntx (Member # 5660) on :
Kara:
I haven't seen any evidence that the animal rescue groups are driving by drowning babies to get to the animals. And the military and other rescuers are not taking on pets and leaving the owners behind.
Where there is a choice to be made, they are taking the humans. The sadness arises when they could have taken both, and they don't. A dog on my lap in a rescue boat is not preventing another person from coming on board.
The misperception here is that we need to make a choice. I don't believe that we do. The animal rescue groups just need to be allowed to do their work.
Suzanne
Posted by Kara Tyson (Member # 939) on :
I disagree. If everyone takes their pet that is one space taken for a human being.
Right now there is plenty for rescuers to do.
If private oganizations want to focus on animals instead of humans, then they can. But I will not as a taxpayer pay for any bites, rabbies shots, or treatment of any kind--since they put themselves at risk.
In fact, if they get trapped, rescuers should not be required to come and get them. Nor should taxpayers be required to pay for food, clothing or shelter for pet rescuers.
I dont want my tax money used for such purposes. That, to me, is putting a needy person below an animal.
And (in this case) saying that an animal is more important and more worthy than a black person. And I can assure you, in this part of the country it is very much viewed that way.
A pet is not equal to a human being. Ever.
Posted by Softballmom (Member # 6235) on :
There are horses roaming around there too. Rescurers gave two horses water and some vitles. Were they bad people because they paused for a moment from their work to do that.
I read somewhere that a person's compasion for animals reflects their compasion in general. maybe worded different but the same meaning.
Posted by tickedntx (Member # 5660) on :
I believe it was Ghandi who said (paraphrasing) that a society can be judged by the way it treats its animals.
Posted by tickedntx (Member # 5660) on :
Kara said: >> Are we now a society that cares more for animals than for people?
No, I don't believe so, but I do believe that we have become a society in which an increasingly many number of people care about them equally. And I think that is a good thing.
Kara said: >> I dont want my tax money used for such purposes. That, to me, is putting a needy person below an animal.
I disagree. It acknowledges that pets are important to people, regardless of economic status. Many of the people who are refusing to leave their homes are people who have very little, especially now, except for the loyalty and love of their pets.
A news report last night, I believe on CNN, showed a group of rescuers (National Guard?) who were able to convince a woman to leave her home in the flooded 9th ward by agreeing to rescue the dogs she was caring for, because she would not agree to leave otherwise. They are all safe now, and no people were harmed in the process.
Kara said: >> A pet is not equal to a human being. Ever.
Maybe not to you, but to many, they are. People who don't share that sentiment would do well to at least accept that many people do feel this way, because there isn't anything you could say to change our minds, just as there is nothing we could say to change yours.
I think it is important to consider that there aren't human lives being lost because animals are being rescued. If they weren't there saving animals, animal rescuers would have no reason to be in the area at all. They are providing an important service by rescuing the animals so that the main focus can be on saving human life.
And the human rescuers are not rescuing animals at the peril of humans. Many are taking on animals because their owners are too distraught to leave them behind.
Suzanne
[ 10. September 2005, 01:31 PM: Message edited by: tickedntx ]
Posted by Kara Tyson (Member # 939) on :
There are still people trapped in New Orleans.
Some people may only have 10 minutes to live. If a rescuer pauses to play with an animal or feed one or rescue one... that person dies.
I never said anyone was a bad person. Do I think their priorities are mixed up? Yes, I do.
Spending hours arguing with that elderly woman about her Mr. Foo Foo wasted time. We will never know if she caused the death of someone. If she did, she ought to be arrested for hindering medical care to a dying person.
Like I said, animal rescuers can do what they want. But if they are bit or get rabies dont come begging to the American taxpayer for your medical bills to be paid. And dont take up room at the Astrodome either.
Posted by Softballmom (Member # 6235) on :
talk about compasion, while were arresting the owner lets kill Mr. Foo Foo too!
That was a bit extreme don't you think. Even through acts of kindness people can still find a way to find fault. This country never ceases to amaze me.
Posted by Kara Tyson (Member # 939) on :
If people are starving, I have no problem with frying Mr. Foo Foo.
What Ghandi was refering to was downright torture of animals. I wonder what Ghandi would have said if he saw colonialists racing past poor begging Indians in the street in order to get their favorite poodle a lavander scented bath, grooming, and tea biscuits.
Posted by Kara Tyson (Member # 939) on :
The best thing would have been for the rescuers to not have wasted time with that woman. If she didnt want to leave..fine. Move on to someone who is trapped and wants to leave.
You better believe if my family was trapped and starving I would eat my pet. I would eat my n'bors pet too. A domesticated animal is still an animal.
Posted by tickedntx (Member # 5660) on :
For a video report form this Los Angeles station of a black lab who saved a man from drowning, go here http://kcal9.com/homepage and scroll down to the link which reads "Heroic Black Lab 'Katrina' Rescued In New Orleans".
The man whom she saved was not allowed to bring her on the rescue helicopter yesterday, so the news crew went back and found her on the front porch of the same house where she had been the day before.
Posted by Kara Tyson (Member # 939) on :
I would disagree with compassion related to the way people treat animals.
There are people who never give a dime to help a fellow human being but have their pets in a day care, a message pillow for their dog, bows in their dogs hair, special pet perfume...they dress their dogs in human clothing.
Are these people more compassionate? No way.
It is their right to spent their money the way they want but I dont think they are more compassionate people.
Posted by Kara Tyson (Member # 939) on :
Sorry for the black lab, but its an animal.
Posted by tickedntx (Member # 5660) on :
Kara said: >> There are people who never give a dime to help a fellow human being but have their pets in a day care, a message pillow for their dog, bows in their dogs hair, special pet perfume...they dress their dogs in human clothing.
That is a grossly inaccurate generalization with no basis in fact. I have always taken very good care of my dogs, but have also given a lot of money to many (human) organizations over the years, and I know many others who have done the same.
Posted by 24bit-moderate (Member # 7841) on :
quote: A pet is not equal to a human being. Ever.
I'll tell you one thing, if I had a choice to save Charles Manson vs. my pet, do you think my choice is hard? No, some people are animals, and lowly ones at that. Everyone has their own opinion on where to draw the line. I'm obviously for saved both, and it can be done. But on the sole point of all humans come before pets, I think there are plenty of exceptions.
On the other extreme, some people that can't have kids have pets that they care about as much as kids, and these pets are extremely important to these people and serve in important role in society.
Again as I said before, searching for animals saves humans, as well. It's not a black and white issue.....you can't compartmentalize reality.
Posted by Kara Tyson (Member # 939) on :
Dont EVEN try to compare a pet with a child. It is NOT a child.
Do you realize we feed out dogs better than what most human beings get to eat in this world??
All this pampering of pets is based in fact. These pet services stay in business. I guess they offer services for free??
Just today I read about some new gadgets for Americans:
Hotels are starting to offer pet massages, pet pillows and dog sitters.
There are now animal education CD's to teach parrots to speak with accents.
There are now vidotapes to entertain pets while their owners are at work.
There are dog toys recorded with the owner's voice to reduce separation anxiety.
There are food dispensers with built in cameras so that owners can observe pets eating or feed them via the internet!!
This is NOT compassion. This is not good. This is not the show of a moral society. This is a society whose priorities are mixed up.
Posted by Mo (Member # 2863) on :
I'm an animal lover and activist from way back.. and commend anyone working for their care and relief.. I also worry very much about the environmental effect on wildlife and ecology down there as well. I hope their are wildlife rescue efforts as is appropriate.
and what is pouring into the sea! the sea life, fish, sea mammals effected must be staggering. The depletion of wetlands was a huge environmental concern and now look what's happened.
I love pets too and hate to see the pics of them suffering..
But I have to agree that people come first and this whole disaster has been so gut wrenchingly torturous to human life it's hard justify placing the needed focus on pets..when you consider the amount of help to humans that has been sorely lacking for 2 weeks now. if adequate help for human rescue was provided throughout this, we could have gotten to the animals much sooner, is another crime on all of this. But that was a total failure..
I think at this point in time certainly both efforts should be supported.. but with proper proportion and priority be placed, certainly an animal rescue mission that turns out to be in the right place at the right time to save humans should choose the humans.
Maybe the reason you got mails over this, Ticked, is because there are so many threads here on animal rescue.. it might not have been upsetting to some if there were just one or two threads here on the effort.. Just my guess...
Posted by tickedntx (Member # 5660) on :
Kara, and others who would criticize those of us who are working to save the animal victims:
Maybe your energies/efforts would be better spent on actively working to help in the human rescue and relief effort instead of criticizing people who have chosen to focus on animal rescue, where there are far fewer resources.
You might start with posting more information in new threads in this forum about the things you are focusing your energies on.
We can all make a difference, and are free to determine where to focus our efforts.
I received only one negative private correspondence here, the one referenced in the first post of this thread, as well as the criticism you have seen in the replies.
The response to a "Letters to the Editor" in the Austin American Statesman (local paper) brought a number of emails and one phone call, all supportive and grateful for the reminder that pets are suffering, too.
I have also emailed over 100 friends, relatives, and acquaintances with information about how to help, also with only positive feedback.
All in all, I think, very good. I had expected much worse.
Suzanne
Posted by Mo (Member # 2863) on :
I'm sorry, Suzzane, I was genuinely commending your efforts, not criticizing them at all..
I was speaking to the discussion here relating to the dispersal of rescue efforts overall.
I made a suggestion that maybe more like two threads with all the info contained would be better recieved, and also because I would think that would be more effective in getting help for the animals here. IMO
Mo
Posted by tickedntx (Member # 5660) on :
Hi Mo:
In thinking about your message, I realized that, and was just coming back to take your name off the salutation in my last post. I am running back and forth among several boards, and did not think clearly enough before replying.
I apologize, and will do that now.
Suzanne
Posted by Sue vG (Member # 3143) on :
This issue will never be resolved to the satisfaction of either side.
Either you believe that animals are innocent sentient beings that deserve to be protected, or you don't.
Personally, I simply don't party with people who don't "get" the value pets have to some people. Nothing I can say will change their opinion, and nothing they can say will change mine.
We have irreconcilable differences that will not be sorted out in this lifetime.
Posted by JillF (Member # 5553) on :
If my son lost me and someone could save his dog, it would be one less tragedy.
I'd want someone to find his dog before she died instead of finding my dead body. After all I am dead. My body is a heck of alot less important that saving my son's puppy. It would be something happy for my son to be reunited with his pet that he loves so much. My son deserves that.
Why should my son lose a parent and a pet?
Do I think that ppl should rescue only animals? No. I do think it's perfectly fine for rescue groups to be saving animals at this time though.
I am sure many ppl are so very happy to be reunited with their pet. It will make a small difference in their lives at this moment.
Personally, I'd rather the government put my tax dollars towards rescuing animals vs. a whole bunch of crap my tax dollars go to instead.
I see the worth in helping innocent animals when noone else will. Especially since they are usually in their sad predicaments due to the selfishness of uncaring humans.
There is so much literal crap that the government spends on that I see no worth whatsoever for.
And pets DO contribute when it comes to humans. Search and Rescue dogs. Dogs and cats that visit the sick - which have been shown to help patients. Pets have been shown to help lower ppl's blood pressure. There are a ton of ways where pets contribute to their families and the human race.
Posted by JillF (Member # 5553) on :
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
This is way too funny
I went from 5 stars to 4 stars after adding my opinion on this thread
Too funny
Since I am no longer in highschool, I won't go around and demoting others I don't agree with but I did get a really good laugh from this
*must tell Dr WiseAss*
Posted by tickedntx (Member # 5660) on :
This is an innovative network of animal rescuers, funded by the Muttshack Foundation, a subsidiary of the National Heritage Foundation.
Please consider donating "Muttshacks" (open air crates) to house Katrina's rescued pets.
Posted by Andie333 (Member # 7370) on :
I've been reading this thread with incredulity. It seems to me that there's more than enough suffering to go around.
People's resources are needed, human and financial. It's absolutely not up to me to judge the decisions other people make about how to help and why they feel help in any given direction is important.
I've watched as millions and millions of dollars have been funnelled into the Red Cross. Kara, you yourself singled out their lack of viable assistance in the days after Katrina...at least in your area. As Jill brought up, is it better to give my money to them or to make different choices?
I have a very unpampered dog and a cat I brought in from the street. What they've given me isn't important as far as this discussion is concerned. For me, the important thing --and the bottom line --is this: I have made a commitment to them...to take care of them. Period. Do I value them more than my partner of 15 years? Or my family and friends? To me, those questions aren't even relevant.
The bottom line, for me, is that I have taken in these living creatures, and that gives me a responsibility for them and to them. Just as I have a responsibility to loved ones and community.
I also know there are a LOT of people who feel exactly the same way.
Had I been living in NO during Katrina and not done everything I could to care for these animals that I've chosen to place in my care...I would have a very hard time living with that. Just as I would if I walked out on my family and/ or friends.
That's who I am. My responsibilities and my values.
Kara, you keep mentioning Snowball. I saw footage of a little boy whose heart was broken because he had to leave his friend behind. Snowball was as much his friend and held as much value as any human being at that moment. I promise you, you'll never convince him (or me) that Snowball is expendable.
It so happens, I've donated to both human and animal rescue efforts. To me, it doesn't have to be either/ or...and shouldn't be. As I said at the start of this post, there's enough suffering to go around.
If this sets me up for critical emails and subsequent negative posts, so be it. I'm not asking anyone else to see things my way. In this time of such widespread suffering and chaos, when every resource is needed and necessary, this seems like a time to help, not to judge how other people choose to do that.
Andie
Posted by Andie333 (Member # 7370) on :
One addition: Jill, after reading your previous post, I tried to log on and give you five stars, but I'd already done that.
No repeat voting.
Just wanted to let you know.
Andie
Posted by tickedntx (Member # 5660) on :
Andie said: >> In this time of such widespread suffering and chaos, when every resource is needed and necessary, this seems like a time to help, not to judge how other people choose to do that.
Very eloquently stated, Andie. Thank you.
Posted by tickedntx (Member # 5660) on :
Here is a nice story with a happy ending, for a man, his dog, and her pups:
9/10 6:47pm PST ASCENSION PARISH SHERIFF STOPS RESCUERS FROM SHELTER - ARMED GUARDS OUTSIDE WON'T LET US IN! Because the Louisiana State Veterinarian refuses to lift the 15 day quarantine hold period, the Gonzales state-designated shelter, is now considered full by the local sheriff. The Parish Sheriff is holding Pasado Rescuers back with loaded guns, despite the fact we have full vans, loaded with animals - the result of a 19-hour-day of rescue. We need to raise hell - call local media, whoever you can, the state vet needs to cut the bureaucracy and allow foster families, from around the country, to take these animals!
Late last night, after working a 15 hour day in 95 degree heat, wearing heavy rubber hip waders, and trying to scale rusted cyclone fencing (and not tear their rubber waders - the water is horrid). They used crow bars to get into a small apartment building - the windows were covered with heavy metal bars and all the doors were locked.
Hayden and Ginger, two of our rescuers, finally got inside and went door to door, breaking the doors in if they had to. They turned a corner, and there stood a man, ragged, and beaten. He wouldn't leave, because his dog, a pure-bred Husky, had had a litter of puppies a week ago. He wouldn't leave them behind. He broke into tears, and our rescuers told us, so did they.
Our rescue crew had already rescued 40 dogs, many cats, and birds, and needed to start transport back to the triage station. But they HAD to get this man, and his dogs, out of there.
"We begged him to leave. We told him, 'Your life has ended here. There is a new beginning out there. Let us take your dogs, we will care for them.' He was steadfast. He feared he'd never see them again.
The mama dog's milk had already run dry. She was dehydrated, as were two other 10-month-old Husky's who were also living with the man. "We just wouldn't leave him there," Hayden told us last night. "We were going anywhere until we got him out of there and got those dogs."
Our rescuer's persistence worked.
To get around the military (who will not let anyone take their animals), the Pasado crew managed to sneak the man into one of our vans, with all of the dogs. He would be join a family member in Baton Rouge. Then, we learned, the family would not allow the dogs to come.
Mama dog, is now on IV fluids, as are the pups and the two 10-month-olds, at our triage location South of New Orleans. They will recover. Our rescuers, slept with them last night.
We need homes for these little ones now, and for the mama and her two friends. Who would want to adopt them? But says Hayden, "They'd have to keep the name we gave to the mama, who we wept over, seeing her try to nurse her babies, but couldn't...it's Katrina."
Posted by JillF (Member # 5553) on :
'Heroic Black Lab 'Katrina' Rescued In New Orleans'
This black lab saved a man's life who could not swim. This dog could not be evacuated with the man and the man left the dog in tears. She has since been rescued herself.
This video is one of several reasons why animals deserve saving.
Posted by I Have Lyme Etc (Member # 7439) on :
I wasn't going to reply to this post, I wasn't going to do it but it was one of those things where the mind said one thing and the hands did another.. For myself, My "pets" are my "kids".. Since I can not have children my 6 dogs have become my children and are VERY much apart of my family. They are, family members and there is no way in the world I would leave them behind I dont' care how bad it got... It just wouldn't happen.. As for the pets in NO.. I have donated to the ASPCA and I plan to do this for as long as I can... Ive noticed since moving here to the south most people here look at their "pets" as nothing more than animals. The cruelty I have seen to the "animals" just in my own complex here is heart breaking and enraging to me. I have called the authorities countless times to no avail. People that used to live behind me went out and bought thier little girl a 4 week old puppy. Cute right? Not so.. They left this poor baby tied up outside with no shelter food or water for days... Well a hurricane hit 2 yrs ago and there was this poor little baby out in the elements screaming it's head off. I promptly got up off my duff, walked over there cut the puppy loose, brought it home, warmed him up, dried him off , gave him a good meal and found him a forever home with people who wanted and loved him at first sight.. So, did I steal that dog? You bet I did.. Would I do it again ? You bet I would...
Posted by tickedntx (Member # 5660) on :
I Have Lyme:
You are my kind of people.
Suzanne
Posted by 24bit-moderate (Member # 7841) on :
quote:Originally posted by Kara Tyson: Dont EVEN try to compare a pet with a child. It is NOT a child.
Do you realize we feed out dogs better than what most human beings get to eat in this world??
All this pampering of pets is based in fact. These pet services stay in business. I guess they offer services for free??
Just today I read about some new gadgets for Americans:
Hotels are starting to offer pet massages, pet pillows and dog sitters.
There are now animal education CD's to teach parrots to speak with accents.
There are now vidotapes to entertain pets while their owners are at work.
There are dog toys recorded with the owner's voice to reduce separation anxiety.
There are food dispensers with built in cameras so that owners can observe pets eating or feed them via the internet!!
This is NOT compassion. This is not good. This is not the show of a moral society. This is a society whose priorities are mixed up.
Sorry a pet IS like a child to MANY people. Pets also keep the elderly alive much longer. These are facts that you can't change. It's reality.
It's perfectly fine to love an animal like that. For someone like you that doesn't have much regard for animals, I can see how frustrating this would be. But I think you have no business telling other people what their priorities ought to be.
My pets are my children until I can have my own. If my house were on fire or if it were filling up with water or ?????? I would risk my life to save them, as well. I wouldn't go on a suicide mission for them, but I would certainly take a lot of risk to save them.
By the way, your list of pet massages, video's, etc. have nothing to do with me or most other people that love their pets like kids. Most people couldn't afford that anyway. So what you stated has no relevance and doesn't make sense as to why I shouldn't be allowed to care a lot about my pets.
It's not a matter of them being an animal, it's the close friendship and bond you may have with a particular living creature. The more love and effort you put into a cat, for example, the more they become more like a person. They develop such a great personality and have depth. It's that way even with people, the more you put into kids, the more personality and sparkle they have.
My cat Coda has been there for me at the worst times of my life, and she's not just an ordinary cat to me. People that don't like animals just don't understand the bond that some people have with their pets. They do become like little people to them, and there's nothing wrong with that.
Posted by JillF (Member # 5553) on :
quote:Originally posted by Andie333: One addition: Jill, after reading your previous post, I tried to log on and give you five stars, but I'd already done that.
No repeat voting.
Just wanted to let you know.
Andie
Ah, no big deal. I'm surprised I even noticed it. But thanks for trying.
If I really cared about the stars and went around complaining about them like some, I'd just disable them.
I take it as a positive thing that someone who obviously has a problem with something I said decided to demote my butt.
Goes to show you the maturity of that person...and I'm the better person since I won't turn around and do the same thing to others who disagree with me.
Posted by pq (Member # 6886) on :
y'all please give Kara, et.al. a break, and stop implicitly "indicting" them for a lack of compassion, thusly causing her and others under these circumstances to 'qualify' themselves with respect to animals; its very unfair.
by the standards of some, lewis and clark, and Co. are indictable for passing up an unlimited supply of salmon from the columbia river (when they did not contain plutonium/other radionuclides), and, instead ate their, and/or the indians' dogs, and maybe a horse or two.
its an understatement to say the gulf coast is an extreme situation where all laws, regulations, mores, and folkways are off---total chaos. I, and many of us have not experienced this kind of thing.
consider that, prior to the hurricane, new orleans had 5 murders per day; this alone implies a lot more criminality. we've seen, or heard what happened already. i say "9mm biscuits" for those animals are trained to be killers,and those that constitute exponential threats of infectious diseases, including wild ones.
viewing 24 bit's photos on another thread, and using this estimate from the photos to calculate across the storm area, i'd say a commendable job was done in animal rescue. sadly, many more will perish.
Posted by Andie333 (Member # 7370) on :
I spent a month in India. There, the feelings about animals vary from ours here in a number of ways...some of them pretty difficult for me to understand.
While many people in Delhi had dogs as pets, just as many dogs ran wild, sometimes sleeping at night in gypsy camps.
I have to say I was never ever attacked by a dog pack, even when I had food. Never even approached, except by one puppy who always managed to seek me out.
Cows are venerated. People leave food out for the cows who roam the streets. The cow, it is believed, offers continuous gifts to people, such as milk, yogurt, etc. At the McDonalds in Delhi, you could get milkshakes but not hamburgers. Instead, they offer a vegetarian alternative.
None of this was especially easy for me to understand. But few things in that amazing and complex culture were quickly learned.
The point, as I see it, is to do my best to respect the feelings people have...even (and especially) if I don't understand them.
Andie
Posted by tickedntx (Member # 5660) on :
pq said: >> y'all please give Kara, et.al. a break, and stop implicitly "indicting" them for a lack of compassion, thusly causing her and others under these circumstances to 'qualify' themselves with respect to animals; its very unfair.
I appreciate that you want to defend your friend, but Kara has repeatedly insisted that those of us who feel connected to animals and want to help them survive Katrina have misplaced priorities, and other defects of character. How is this different from noting her lack of compassion for animal victims of Katrina?
To say that Kara lacks compassion for animals is a statement of fact made clear in her numerous posts. She is entitled to her opinion, but she has not hesitated to condemn those who hold a position different from hers, so, as such, comments about her lack of compassion for animals are not inappropriate in the context of this discussion.
In fact, they are quite accurate. If she does not want to be openly criticized for her position on the subject, she should not have posted it, especially so vehemently and repeatedly.
I don't see her complaining, she seems to be able to hold up to the discussion, and given her obvious clarity on the subject, I suspect that she would agree with the observation.
I am not sure what you are trying to say in the rest of your post, but it appears that you believe that the animals in need of help in the area are vicious. Yes, some are, and they will have to be dealt with appropriately under the circumstances, but my observation based on television reporting is that most are not.
Posted by sapphire101 (Member # 6638) on :
I wasn't going to reply to this post but I just have to commend Ticked for what she is doing. Keep up the good work.
I am very much an animal lover. I have 3 Yorkies and would never leave them behind. They are my "furkids" even though I have grown kids. They are always teasing me that I think more of the dogs than I do them. They love them almost as much as I do.
I'm watching CNN right now and they say there are thousands searching for pets. I'm so happy to hear this. I'm not advocating rescuing pets before people at all. I do think they deserve to be helped. They cannot help themsevles and depend on us.
Before I get blasted here, my husband is in MS as we speak unloading a camper to be used as temporary housing. He will be running back and forth for the next few weeks doing this along with my son. Fortunately we own a business so we were able to work it out so that he could do this.
I understand that they have ordered 40,000 2006 models. The number is just hearsay so don't know for sure. I do know that hubby has been in line since 5:30 this morning waiting to unload and just now got inspected. So he sat in line for 4 1/2 hours so they are getting a lot coming in.
Anyway, just wanted to let you know they are trying to find housing for these unfortunate people. It's just all so sad.
Ticked, I appreciate all you are doing. If hubby wasn't delivering these campers I would have had him take our boat to use for animal rescue. I saw where they were needing alot more. We have a pontoon which would be perfect. Just keep up the good work and I admire you for what you are doing.
Take care, Sapphire101
[ 11. September 2005, 03:16 PM: Message edited by: sapphire101 ]
Posted by Sue vG (Member # 3143) on :
quote:Originally posted by tickedntx: Andie said: >> In this time of such widespread suffering and chaos, when every resource is needed and necessary, this seems like a time to help, not to judge how other people choose to do that.
Very eloquently stated, Andie. Thank you.
Ditto that!!!! Posted by Andie333 (Member # 7370) on :
Sapphire, Thanks for letting us know about your family down there helping.
I think this has been a time when I've been the most upset about having Lyme. I'm still far too medically vulnerable to put myself in that sort of disease-rampant situation. The last thing on earth I need right now is more bacteria!
Still, I commend your family on their efforts, and I hope you'll pass that along.
Andie
Posted by 24bit-moderate (Member # 7841) on :
If I were completely well, I would be out there helping with the animal rescue right now. I've even thought about telling my boss that I need a few weeks off of PTO. But.......my immune system already has enough to deal with and it would be better to send money rather than screw myself up. But this is one of those times where I really, really wish I had never gotten Lyme.
Posted by Softballmom (Member # 6235) on :
I have 3 kids but Gator my little 4 legged baby is like one of them. Of course I don't put him above them.
Last year when I was so sick my husband was working the kids were in school but Gator was right by my side through every day.
The days I felt like I couldn't go on he was there and made me feel better when I was so down.
Many who have Lyme and other ailments depend on pets for support, some to survive and some just to have something around them.
Alot who don't have children or a partner have pets as their family. A friend of mine has cats as her family. When her first cat died of Feline Leuchemia she started a foundation to raise money for research of the disease. www.marleyfund.com Not that she is less compasionate about humans but because that is the cause she felt the need to donate her time and money into.
There are enouph people in this country to take care of any need there is but alot of people choose not to contribute at all.
Let the people who choose to help animals do it without rebuke. Everyone is different and there paths are not all the same. It doesn't mean that there priorities are screwed up.
We do fork out alot of lute on our animals but I do care for mankind as well.
Yes I spend alot of time and money for my animals and others in need but I provide many services for humans in my comunity personally and also give donations when I see fit or the need.
Posted by tickedntx (Member # 5660) on :
First I want to tell Sapphire that I wholeheartedly commend what your husband is doing. Please would you express my gratitude and admiration to him. And perhaps he could pick up some stray animals along the way, or drop off food and water... :-)
Thank you all for your support. It is very frustrating to be working so hard to support the animal rescue efforts, and also be compelled to defend my reasons for doing so.
In reading at the animal rescue boards, this is an issue faced by many people involved in the animal rescue efforts. As I write this, I can't see the thread so I don't know who to credit for this, but excellent point about people who are not doing anything. People who feel the need to criticize should consider directing their condemnation at them.
I echo the sentiment of those who are frustrated about not being able to help because of the added risk imposed by dysfunctional immune systems. I have been generally accepting of my Lyme-induced limitations, until now.
This is the most frustrated I have ever been. Because I feel so helpless for not being able to get to the area to provide hands-on help, I have been compensating for this by spending endless hours reading and posting to message boards and listservs to relay information to people who _are_ in a position to offer hands-on help, and to solicit donations to animal rescue groups from all the people unfortunate enough to be in my email address book. It is truly amazing and inspiring what so many people are doing.
Suzanne
Posted by sapphire101 (Member # 6638) on :
Thanks Suzanne, I will definitely tell hubby. I just talked to him and he was on his way home but he will be going to Murfreesboro, TN to bring a camper home so he and our son can leave early in the morning for Baton Rouge.
I feel bad for him, he also has lyme. Fortunately his isn't too bad. He is running on very little sleep and I hope that doesn't do him in. I know it makes him feel better to be able to do something though.
I do want you to know that I have a donation jar set up in our business to collect for the animals. I will be sending it to Noah's Wish. We are going to match what we get(up to a certain amount) and I hope we get alot. I'm not able to be there or I could get more I'm sure.
I told hubby it is crazy for all those trucks pulling campers to go empty. I don't understand why they can't fill them up before they leave. He said he didn't see any place for a drop off of supplies where they leave the campers. You would think someone would think of that. How hard would it be to set up a drop off at that location.
I know we could send a truck full each trip if we just knew where to drop it off. Such a waste in my book and also it would get there faster if they would load all these trucks. Off my soapbox now.
Thanks for all your hard work. You are doing alot of good so don't feel like you aren't doing much because you are.
Take care, Sapphire101
Posted by tickedntx (Member # 5660) on :
Hi Sapphire:
Noah's Wish is a great group. I hope you get lots of donations! And great of you to have the company match.
Have you talked to your LLMD about any additional immune support, or possibly increasing abx?
Suzanne
Posted by Kara Tyson (Member # 939) on :
It isnt a matter of expendable. It is a matter of people come first.
A child thinks like a child. They cannot see the forrest for the trees.
What if a pet had bit someone? Most likely that pet is not vaccinated. That person would have had to go thru tentanus shots and possibly rabies shots.
What if there was a person with asthma without their medication? What if that person died because of someone's cat or dog--after hours on a bus? Or would their life's sacrifice be worth it...so someone has their pet?
We are not talking about gradually moving people out of an area. We are talking an emergency. These people had to go. Right then, right now.
Some people may view their pet as their child and that leaving their pet was like a child.
But do you realize there were mother's who had to leave their dead babies in the dome? These mother's may never get to bury their child. The name tag may have gotten lost--perhaps rats ate the baby (rats are now eating the dead).
Can you imagine a reporter going up to a mother and saying, "I guess you understand how hard it was for someone to have left their pet behind seeing as you had to leave your dead baby?"
Just because I belive that humans are superior doesnt mean that I am an animal hater any more than the rest of you are people haters.
But I am a speciest. I believe that humans are far superior than beasts and that animals were created to serve humans. It doesnt mean that you abuse them, but it does mean that they are lower on the food chain.
Posted by 24bit-moderate (Member # 7841) on :
quote:Originally posted by Kara Tyson: But I am a speciest. I believe that humans are far superior than beasts and that animals were created to serve humans. It doesnt mean that you abuse them, but it does mean that they are lower on the food chain.
A speciest? Did you just make that up? It doesn't even show up on Google as a real word. You make it sound like it's a defined philosophy or something. How you describe it though reminds me of a cold, robotic way of viewing the world......no emotion, just definition cut and dry. That is really a sad thing, really. It's not a real word obviously because most people see pets as very valuable living creatures that support human life. They really do. And often times, they serve more importance in society than a lot of loser people do in this world. Most people look at living creatures, whether it's a person, a dog, a cat, etc., in terms of what it contributes to society.
Under your new word "speciest", a loser like Charles Manson is much, much more superior than a dog that's super sweet and kept an older lady alive and happy for many years. The dog obviously has much, much more importance and contribution to society than Manson, and most people realize that.......and that's why speciest isn't a real word. It's not a word that's needed.....no one wants it, well except for a few people maybe.
[ 12. September 2005, 08:34 AM: Message edited by: 24bit-moderate ]
Posted by Sue vG (Member # 3143) on :
Guys, there's nothing that can be done about these divergent views. Understanding and acceptance will not be achieved, no matter how long this thread runs.
Just don't ask a speceist (sp?)to pet sit for you.
Posted by Kara Tyson (Member # 939) on :
PETA uses the word Speciest (similiar to racist) to denote those that dont believe animals are equal to humans.
I hope these groups who are resueing animals (and boating by humans in their homes) are finding good homes for the alligators and the snakes. They arent mean, they are just misunderstood. They would be nice if they had not been opressed by mankind.
Hmm. an alligator or a human..which to rescue?? That's a hard one.
I voice my opion. It is irrelevant if understanding or acceptance is a part of it. Everyone must agree in communist thought.
Posted by JillF (Member # 5553) on :
quote:Originally posted by Kara Tyson: PETA uses the word Speciest (similiar to racist) to denote those that dont believe animals are equal to humans.
I hope these groups who are resueing animals (and boating by humans in their homes) are finding good homes for the alligators and the snakes. They arent mean, they are just misunderstood. They would be nice if they had not been opressed by mankind.
Hmm. an alligator or a human..which to rescue?? That's a hard one.
I voice my opion. It is irrelevant if understanding or acceptance is a part of it. Everyone must agree in communist thought.
I think the majority of us have made it very clear that we think humans come first and animals come second.
If you chose to read something else that is not being said, so be it.
And there is a huge difference between a cute toy dog vs. an alligator.
I also doubt seriously that those rescuing pets are rescuing the alligators and snakes but if you want to think that, go ahead.
[ 12. September 2005, 07:47 PM: Message edited by: JillF ]
Posted by GEDEN13 (Member # 4151) on :
most of you know me and the compassion i have for dog's. i have adopted many.
both the dog and i benefited from the adoption.
but if it came down to it,jr.would be in the oven for my survival.plain and simple.i love the little guy i adopted.
if i were laying dead on the floor,and jr. had not eaten for day's or week's,i am sure he would eat me for his survival...gary
p.s, i think we are in for a real bad winter. hey jr., come'er,time to fatten you up!! where's the katsup! yum ,yum....
Posted by tickedntx (Member # 5660) on :
Actually, Gary, no. Your dog would not eat you if you died first. Further, your dog would not kill you for the express purpose of eating you, no matter how hungry he might be.
At a gas station in MS, a man was found dead, his hungry and thirsty dog sitting dutifully by his side, watching over him.
When rescue crews were able to go back to retrieve the body, the dog had not eaten him.
The good news is that the dog was rescued, and someone has come forward to adopt him.
[ 13. September 2005, 12:18 AM: Message edited by: tickedntx ]
Posted by 24bit-moderate (Member # 7841) on :
quote:Originally posted by Kara Tyson: PETA uses the word Speciest (similiar to racist) to denote those that dont believe animals are equal to humans.
I hope these groups who are resueing animals (and boating by humans in their homes) are finding good homes for the alligators and the snakes. They arent mean, they are just misunderstood. They would be nice if they had not been opressed by mankind.
Hmm. an alligator or a human..which to rescue?? That's a hard one.
I voice my opion. It is irrelevant if understanding or acceptance is a part of it. Everyone must agree in communist thought.
Well it figures PETA made that word up. They're more interested in convincing people not to fish because they feel it's cruel, and have much less interest in the stray animal situation in America. They do do some good, but they're really just an animal activist cult which is too bad. They get a lot of PR.
Where you find animals you can find humans. It's a fact that many many homes have been searched with X marking info. on the house which is helpful to the animal rescuers. In these areas the people have already been sought out. In the areas where they haven't, it's likely to find humans where they find the animals because lots stayed behind because they didn't want to leave them. So they will likely save human lives in the unsearched neighborhoods.
Obviously your comment about alligators and snakes is pure smarty pants, and you know they're primarilly looking for dogs and cats, maybe a few other pets. But hardly snakes and alligators. A snake doesn't usually become a family member or contribute anything to my family like a cat or dog does.
Let's see, I'm going to drive my boat back and forth down the street passing a poor sweet dog on a car trying to get me to stop while I can't find any humans to save.....oh yeah, we have to have the bodies picked up first too. LOL. It's just an amazing, shocking point of view. It's mind blowing to me.
I posted a thread about animal rescue efforts on a major guitar amp board that sees about 10,000 members a day, and there was a flood of support with posts and donations. And not one person out of all those people had a problem with saving the animals. I know a lot of donations were sent in which has been great, but I thought there would be at least a few getting upset about it. But there wasn't, and what a great feeling to see that support going to the animals.
We post our opinions like you post yours, Kara. No one thinks they're going to change your mind. But for the sake of others that are in the process of formulating their opinions on the subject, it's important for us to make our case and contrast it with yours.....which is anti-animal.
Posted by Softballmom (Member # 6235) on :
PETA are extemist in the support of animals. I hope you weren't comparing us to them. I am no where near an extemist.
On the ground Kara you have to remember that the rescuers all human. They take each moment of their day with what it brings before them. They are not looking for the animals but the human side of them makes it hard to keep on going and just passing the situation by.
you can't fault people for being human.
Maybe we need to recomend only Speciest should be rescuing. Maybe they would do a better job. Posted by tickedntx (Member # 5660) on :
I agree that PETA's views and tactics are extreme. I stopped donating to them many years ago, as soon as I realized this.
Posted by GEDEN13 (Member # 4151) on :
really don't matter if jr. eat's me or not.he would still go in the oven for my survival.
but these are all make believe situation's. nobody really know's what they are gonna do,until that situation come's up. , gary
Posted by Lymester (Member # 5848) on :
In the process of offering my home as a fostering place for up to 3 pets from the NO disaster, I have submitted a request to adopt another dog.
Gary, please with the Daniel Boone survivalist stuff. The depth of your relationship with that animal is that you would put him in the oven? You would however start with the neighbor who leaves his recyclables on YOUR side of the driveway... wouldn't you.
If you're a winner or a loser, that animal will be loyal to you forever.
One of the first reactions that told me I was getting better w/abx, was letting the dog in and the wheels turning "I should get another one".
I was very sick and was frightened at the responsibility a year ago.
When I was laying in bed before abx with the sweats, pain, fever... the cat would stay near me all night.
I would rather die with my animal in my arms then use it as part of my menu to survive an additional day.
Posted by Andie333 (Member # 7370) on :
Well said, Lymster I couldn't agree with you more.
It's great that you're fostering animals from the storm. There was an amazing post I read on petfinder:
A woman in CA had posted that her husband witnessed a scraggly black dog literally pull an older and infirm man through the storm waters to safety.
Her husband was a CBS photographer and, when he realized the man and dog weren't together, he rescued both of them.
He took the dog back to his own home in CA and got the man to higher ground and a safe place so he could find his family. The photographer's wife posted that she hopes the dog's owner will be able to find her.
I guess that's my point with this whole thread: it seems to me there's always room in the boat for one more... but, hey, that's just my boat
Andie
Re PETA -- I'm not real great with political extremism of any stripe. Never have been!
Posted by GEDEN13 (Member # 4151) on :
lymester , you know nothing of me and the rescue's and the adoption's i have done in the past few year's.
i have adopted senior's,that NOBODY will adopt or rescue.they see them as old and not much time left.so why bother.
i am the one who cared and and made sure they had a home and proper medical care.
i was with them at the time of there passing.holding them till there last breath.i shed the tear's of there passing!!
i buried there lifeless little bodies and also a part of me!!
where were you?????
so don't you dare give me that anial boone crap!!
i have anothr senior,someone threw away.i will go through the same thing with him.
so get off your soapbox!! know of what you speak,before you say it..
YOU ,left your dog's outside!! what kind of person are you? afraid that they might bring in tic's? brush them!! bath them!! care for them..hippocrit!! ,gary
p.s. how dare are you..
Posted by LabRat (Member # 78) on :
Well, if you ask me, and no one did, but if I were king, I'm sure I could do a better all around job. It seems to me while all that went wrong and all that went right is fresh in our minds, we sit down and make some notes as to what we should do and not do next time!
Want to save the companion animals? I'm all for it, let's make plans for the next time, get the cages in stock, plan the shelters for animals. There's no telling how many died by refusing to leave their animals to save themselves! Have maybe ten or twenty regional shelters for the refugees to go to or be taken to if they have no transport. Set up for say 100,000 in each shelter and have extra shelters in the vicinity of high-density populations.
It would amaze you what we could do if we set our mind to it and could get politics and politicians out of it some way.
Posted by Kara Tyson (Member # 939) on :
In 2001 there was a lady in Texas who did drugs and passed out. Her poodle ate her lip off...and she still didnt wake up!
Posted by I Have Lyme Etc (Member # 7439) on :
quote:Originally posted by Kara Tyson: In 2001 there was a lady in Texas who did drugs and passed out. Her poodle ate her lip off...and she still didnt wake up!
Hmm, She was on drugs and passed out and the dog ate her lip off. Wonder how long it had been since that poor animal had anything to eat.. Animals are like humans in that noone is born rotten they are MADE that way either by some kind of chemical inbalance and or abuse of the physical and or emotional nature.
Posted by Kara Tyson (Member # 939) on :
If the dog was hungry and it ate her lip off, I dont think the dog is rotten...it is just hungry.
Posted by 24bit (Member # 6531) on :
If you had any kind of relationship with your dog, you'd eliminate that possibility. 99.9% of all dogs wouldn't do it anyway.
Posted by Lymester (Member # 5848) on :
Gary,
Saying you'd ever come to a point you'd consider putting your pet in the oven was ridiculous.
As you said, these situations are made up so would you think you'd even have an oven in a survival situation?
Yes, I left the dog outside. For about 15 minutes to 1/2hr, depending on weather conditions, the temperature and how long it takes the little guy to go to the bathroom and enjoy the outdoors.
I do this several times a day and probably up to 100 times a week. I guess you didn't understand.
I have been rescuing animals since I could have my backside slapped or my parents saying "now what the H-E-L-L are you bringing home."
I'm not going to have a pissing war with you Gary, you sound pretty tired and angry. I was offended by the "jr" thing. It came across as ignorant. I thought more of you than that.
Posted by ponytail (Member # 36) on :
Andie - thank you so much for your comments in this thread. You made some really impressive points that apply not only to pets but to everyday life! Values and Responsibility - wouldn't it be nice if everyone had some?
Seems like we're all gettin' into somewhat of a pissin' contest as we hicks like to say and well - I'm feeling a little soapboxy today so, forgive me if I ramble!
While I do view MY pets as "part of my family" and am one of those PET LOVERS, I do understand that not everyone feels the way I do. Yet, I totally agree that when a person "CHOOSES" to have a pet then he or she should accept the "responsibility" for it's LIFELONG care.
This would apply to not only feed and water but, safe housing, vaccinations etc.
NOPE, they don't need spa days or clothing but, pets do need love and attention. They need to be restrained in a yard or by other means so that they won't be hit by cars or otherwise injured. The person who has the pet is RESPOSIBLE for it and should be held ACCOUNTABLE.
There have been times in my life that merely knowing I have the unconditional love and affection of my dog has been something that kept me going.
I love my child and my husband fiercely but, if faced w/ a similar situation there is no doubt that I would have done everything humanly possible to evacuate w/ my animals. I only hope and pray that I am never ever faced personally with what these folks have dealt with or have to make such horrifying decisions.
Being on the paranoid side normally -- I would have loaded everybody up and headed for the hills when they said the hurricane "MIGHT" hit my coastline! For me, that includes 4 dogs, 2 cats, a horse, a sickly OLD pony and a goat! I have several evacuation plans should I ever need to leave suddenly. THESE guys are my responsibility and I take it very seriously.
Would I at this point in my SICKLY, MONEY CHALLENGED life go out and obtain all the previouslly mentioned buddies - NOPE.
But, I have had most since before LYME dx and while they don't visit the groomer anymore and vet visits are limited to emergency situations, I RESPONSIBLY provided adequate shelter, food water, maintenance etc. At such a time that I become unable to do so then it becomes my RESPONSIBILTY to find someone who can.
This brings a point that many of the people affected by this tragedy "CHOSE" not to evacuate early as advised by the state. By doing so, they not only jeopardized their life and the life of their family but, also the lives of the rescuers tasked w/ getting them out and finally, the lives and well-being of their animals.
Unfortunately, there was also a population that was "UNABLE" to evacuate due to lack of money and/or transportation. Human and animal life was lost in this case. In this day and time in our country, this is a tragedy I simply don't understand.
We could argue endlessly about who is at fault but, the lives lost would not be regained.
Our city is hosting several hundered evacuees. Many who arrived here did so early and via their own transportation w/ their beloved pets and have to this point been able to secure and pay for motel/hotel lodging.
But most who arrived here are being housed in the Red Cross shelter and experienced the horrific conditions of the Superdome.
I am soooo very tired of hearing that "racisim" is a factor in the evacuation process and feel that those singing that song are the folks who only want a hand-out now as in their previous lifestyle.
I know in my case and after speaking w/ many residents of my city, I NEVER at any time during the Katrina landing thought - those poor white people couldn't get out and may be killed.
I didn't think - those poor black people couldn't get out and may be killed.
I simply cried as I heard of the tragic situation ALL the people and animals of Louisiana, Alabama and Mississippi were facing.
Our city's sheltering of these evacuees was somewhat of a surprise as there wasn't much forewarning; however, our community rallied in a most amazing way and have been able to open not one but two shelters for those needing a place to stay.
A call went out for volunteers to bring supplies, sort supplies, man the shelter etc. My entire family is quite ill from Lyme,BArt, & BAbs disease and it is very unwise for us to be mingling amongst large groups of people of any race or culture.
I felt so guilty that we were unable to jump in and man the battleship so, we tried to figure out ways we could help. We tore through the house finding items requested. I used a good percentage of the budget to buy toilet paper etc for donation. I gave as much money as I could spare but, wanted to do more.
So, I tried to find a way to offer assistance where I was able. Having a pasture, barn, extra kennel and a LOVE for all animals, I called and posted on websites that we would offer lodging to livestock and/ or other pets in order to relieve at least that small part of a family's stress.
My family is "fostering" the pet of an evacuee family from New Orleans who arrived in the middle of the night on a bus from the superdome. They thought enough of this dog to bring her with them.
No - they were not able to take her to the Red Cross shelter and rightfully so; however, as in most communities, our humane society received these pets and arranged for caring homes until their families can get back on their feet.
Here is where I am seeing a problem - at least in our situation. The family in question apparently is a multi-generation government assistance family. Neither work as far as I can determine. They have at least 5 children and only 3 were fathered by the guy I met. Only 2 arrived in our city and at the time I met the family, only the baby remained w/ the parents.
These kiddos weren't tragically seperated from their parents they were just left w/ different friends and families for a reason I really couldn't figure out.
Mr. Evacuee contacted the Humane Society asking for us to bring their dog to the shelter so they could visit w/ her. We agreed on a good time and I had to jump through hoops to arrange a place etc due to liability issues that per potentially there for the shelter and staff should the dog attack someone!
Upon meeting the wife for the first time, it didn't even take 5 minutes for her to begin putting the racisim card into play regarding their stay at the shelter. She indicated because they were black, our shelter staff were treating them like "animals".
As far as I could tell, she felt this way because they were being asked to sign in and out when leaving and were asked to monitor their children, not smoke inside, wear shower shoes when bathing, keep their belongings tidy. She was irritated that meals occured at specified times and mostly, that she was sleeping in a crowd of people.
These things are all inconveniences that ANYONE faced w/ an evacuation of this magnitude should expect to face. It wasn't anything racially motivated on any level from what I could tell. But, I let her vent and tried to be understanding because I KNOW I would have been FREAKING out had I been in her situation!
She continued to tell me of how she would be able to access funding and basically saying that she was OWED all this different stuff because she had been on Section 508 housing in Louisiana.
She told me within the first 10 minutes of our meeting that she was getting on the first bus she could or finding a ride and taking herself and her baby to Houston because they would be more able to get government assistance there.
She told me she had sent her 5 year old daughter already that day w/ "some guy" who was going that way. She described how the "Red Cross" would pay for 2 or 3 weeks in a hotel and she was going to check in to one as soon as possible.
Even while her husband was saying to her to just be patient and remain in our city at the shelter until they could get their bearings she was figuring how to milk as much as she could from those willing to give.
At no time did she say, I need a "safe" and "clean" place for my children - why, because that was provided for her here.
At no time did she say, I need nutritious food to feed my children - why, because that too was provided for her here.
At no time did she say, I need a safe good education environment for my children - why, because that too was provided for her here.
At NO TIME, did she say, what can I do to help w/ this shelter situation. Can I wash dishes, sweep, mop help pick up the litter - NOTHING. I know when I stay at the Ronald McDonald house in CT, I never EXPECT them to do everything for me! I love helping in any way I can while we are there because I am so grateful they are helping me!!
Our citizens were COMPASSIONATELY, LOVINGLY, and WILLINGLY taking off from work, using funds, transportation, whatever they could to provide a AS GOOD of an environment as could be expected in such a situation.
I offered to drive back that afternoon after she had time to go to the Red Cross meeting and pick her up and bring her to my home to wash clothes, rest, let her 5 month old baby rest and maybe prepare "home cooked" meal. I thought maybe that would help her feel less like an animal to have some private time.
Nope. She took another drag of her 2nd cigarette and again pointed out she was "entitled" to government housing and she was going to "get it" one way or another.
As w/ any situation, this is only one example ; however, as my friend told me yesterday when she went to the nail salon to have her nails done. There were shelter evacuees there having pedicures and manicures apparently using their Red Cross money for something important.
I wonder if they thanked the nail salon for reducing the prices for these services?
My friend is a hair stylist and told me that she had been bombarded by evacuees wanting cuts and colors and perms for next to nothing. They wanted her to donate these things because they were evacuated from a hurricane.
They EXPECTED her to negatively affect her method of income just because they felt we OWED them something.
I love being pampered w/ the best of them but, seems like there are times when you just have to be patient and deal w/ what is NECESSARY first. That is how my family is required to live EVERYDAY.
Right now, I am unable to afford some luxeries as well as the type of groceries we are used to buying because I "CHOSE" to lend support to those I was lead to believe were in NEED.
I do know one thing . . . the sweet puppy kisses I get EVERY SINGLE TIME I pass by my Katrina Survivor Dog makes me feel happy I did foster her. I never have to wonder if I did the right thing. She survived Katrina, the Superdome, a night or two on I-10, was covered in fleas and somewhat horrified too! I offered her what I was able and it appears to be satisfactory!
I haven't heard a single word from her people since the day I took her for her visit. I wonder how they are doing and hope things are going well.
I wonder how long this little sweetie will be living with me and hope, if they do reclaim her, they will provide her w/ the love and care she deserves.
ALL life is precious in His sight,
Sherry
hmmmm - I'm feeling a tad bit better now - thanks so much to lymenet for allowing me a place to rage on at times and to you my fellow posters for talking about things other than that which shadows our every day life !
Posted by Softballmom (Member # 6235) on :
Makes you wonder what she did to the Poodle to make it want to eat her lip off? Get the whole story. Maybe she used the little dog for batting pratice in her spare time.
Poodles aren't the usual animal to nibble on body parts.
Gary, I have heard you in the past talk about your recue pets. I think it is a wonderful thing you do for those geriatric doggies.
Given that I have heard you speak of them. I believe you would use all survival mechanisms before you roast one of your elderly friends. I think it is just hard for some to hear the referal of doing so.
I just can't even imagine the thought of eating one of my animals.
how did we get to this subject anyway? Posted by LabRat (Member # 78) on :
Good post Ponytail, Through personal observation and conversation with people who deal with the ``financially challenged'', it seems some of the ``career'' ones know the rules and regulations of entitlements better than the people who administer the programs and I'm not saying that to be funny! I wouldn't want to trade places with anyone in that situation but it appears if you know the ropes, you can survive.
Posted by tickedntx (Member # 5660) on :
Someone was looking for the source of this quote:
"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated." -- Mahandas Gandhi (1869-1948)
Posted by 24bit (Member # 6531) on :
I took in a feral kitty about 6 months ago that was born in the bushes at my work. She immediately warmed up to people and now you would never know she was ever wild. I named her Biscuit, but I would certainly die before I ever ate this Biscuit. She's the sweetest and happiest cat I've ever come across in all my years.
Posted by GEDEN13 (Member # 4151) on :
lymester ,a pissing war? you thought better of me?
i never heard of you,or never had any contact with you.can't see how you know me to make a judgement of me.
cause if you did know me,the"cold winterand fattening up jr." you would have known i was joking.
also with the"where's the katsup"? phrase. i would use mustard.
and yes,i could beat you in a pissing contest,since you bought it up.....gary
hell, now i ain't gonna get back to sleep,been demoted a star.maybe if i am a good boy,the star fairy will give back to my 5 star statis.darn,darn,darn....i'll behave..
no wonder i can't sleep,star fairy took nother. i guess i'm in for a long day.taking away my life's blood.how much longer must i suffer?
[ 15. September 2005, 03:07 PM: Message edited by: GEDEN13 ]
Posted by Jooooo2 (Member # 1621) on :
Posted by daniella (Member # 6753) on :
check out june bugs post ...
Posted by Lymester (Member # 5848) on :
Joooo, is that the family photo? They're beautiful.
24-bit: Amazing pics, amazing cat.
Our's is 7 yrs old now and was the runt. I found her in the parking lot hiding under a rock. Brothers and sisters were larger. She was our first baby.
Posted by treepatrol (Member # 4117) on :
Link may offend
Family MealThe Family Meal. In Akha society, dogs are often loyal pets until about age one, when they are sacrificed and eaten. After the slaughter, it is believed that the dog's spirit will watch over and guard the home. People do it. I dont think I could eat my personal pet if I had to but someone elses probaly. Brutaly honest here. Posted by daniella (Member # 6753) on :
daniella
Posted by Softballmom (Member # 6235) on :
In Korea there is an old tale that when your dog reaches 7 it will turn into a wolf. Some Koreans are known to kill their dogs and eat them before they reach that age. Horrible!!! Posted by Linda LD (Member # 6663) on :
My husband was in Korea or somewhere in asia and was playing with some puppies at a restaurant. He motioned to the waitress he want to eat--didn't speak the language. she disappeared and brought him a wonderful meal. But when he was leaving he noticed the puppy he played with the most was gone... ugh, I m married to a man that ate a puppy!
On Katrina...Weirdly enough I agree with all ya'll. I did scroll by some...
But folks need to remember that many of the people who wouldn't leave their animals are old and often mentally ill. That animal may be the only love and companionship they receive. Many may be shut ins...
As for my animals I love them dearly--and I know first hand when my house burned as a kid my first questioning on learning that was, "my Mom..?" and then "my animals!" The stuff doesn't matter--its just stuff.
As for the dead bodies, if they pose a threat to disease--get the bodies. but I tell my step kids--when I'm dieing come see me--I don't care if you come to my funeral or not. That old appalachian saying about "bring me flowers while I'm alive."
l
Posted by Angela Bachmann (Member # 43) on :
You know what, guys?
I've never seen such a long discussion with so many different opinions work out so well.
I felt as though I was in a room with a bunch of friends all thinking differently but RESPECTING EACH OTHER.
I feel weird to say this.......but I feel proud of all of you.
You make a moderator's job a lot easier.
[ 16. September 2005, 12:30 PM: Message edited by: Angela Bachmann ]
Posted by tickedntx (Member # 5660) on :
"No man can be condemned for owning a dog. As long as he has a dog, he has a friend; and the poorer he gets, the better friend he has." - Will Rogers
Posted by Andie333 (Member # 7370) on :
jooooo
What a great bunch. Who's alpha in this pack?
And 24...your cat is gorgeous! We also took in a feral cat in Dec. He was being fed by the woman down the block but decided he wanted to live here.
Night after night he waited. In the rain, two nights in a row. Didn't cry. Just waited.
Finally, we bought cat food. And the dog figured out he was going to have to share his water bowl.
This little guy is so affectionate and verbal. I've never heard a critter talk so much.
He went from sleeping under the bushes to sleeping on Egyptian cotton sheets.
I have to say I admire his audacity, respect his judgement and adore him!
Andie
Posted by Kara Tyson (Member # 939) on :
I sometimes wonder why we in the West are offended at eating animals with fur yet we think nothing of consuming a cow.
We may disapprove of Asian countries eating dogs/cats but Indians think the same of us eating cows.
Why is the consuming of one animal viewed as ok, but others not ok?
Posted by ponytail (Member # 36) on :
Hey Labrat - long time no hear from you - hope you are doing well (or at least better) !! Thanks for the kudos!
Regarding the animal consumption, I know how I feel and that is I don't want to kill/cook/eat something I know or have cared for, named etc.
In my case, this is why my farmer brown hiney doesn't allow the "feeding out" of a calf or hog etc at our home. Something my husband is really huffy about and threatening to do all the time especially since the pasture is knee high and needing mowed AGAIN!
I believe Indians (from India) view the cow as a sacred beast in their religion (I could be making this up but, seems like I remember it from somewhere - just hope it wasn't fiction)!
I just don't feel right about it but, I am less troubled by chicken and fish tho - seems a little unfair to them! I guess I will remain a carnivore as long as I can purchase meat products in faceless, nameless packaging from HEB!
I try to picture a situation so dire that I would consider eating a dog or cat or horse and I thank God everyday that nothing that tragic has ever remotely happened to me.
I feel like dogs, cats or any "pet" for that matter is a "companion" animal - not for consumption .
I speak to my dogs as if they were children and for the most part - they behave FAR better than most of the kiddos my friends are raising.
So far, not such great luck w/ my teenager tho - wonder where I went wrong ??
Perhaps, she should have had a crate, blankie, squeaker toy and a nasty old sock w/ knots in it. Hmmmm - probably too late to redo it tho and w/ her current attitude, she'd probably turn out TOUGH and DRY if we tried to cook her !
Anyway - there's my take on this for now! Every person is entitled to his/her own belief and/or custom - that's the beauty of living in the "land of the free". I don't have to like what they do or even agree with it and vice versa!
Basically, I'm responsible for my family which includes various fur bearing creatures and an amazing porch residing hoppy toad!! So far, all are safe from the kitchen!
Personally, I'd probably survive quite nicely if COKE and Ice Cream were food groups!! Wouldn't it be lovely . . .
Sherry
Posted by 24bit (Member # 6531) on :
quote:Originally posted by Kara Tyson: I sometimes wonder why we in the West are offended at eating animals with fur yet we think nothing of consuming a cow.
We may disapprove of Asian countries eating dogs/cats but Indians think the same of us eating cows.
Why is the consuming of one animal viewed as ok, but others not ok?
That's an easy one to answer. BECAUSE THEY'RE OUR PETS!!! Lol. There's this thing called emotion.....and it exists with our pets and the type of animals they are. Seeing other animals similar to our own pets that we love is why we don't want to see them harmed. Did I really just have to explain that? Yup. Posted by 24bit (Member # 6531) on :
Yeah, Biscuit is very photogenic. She hardly ever takes a bad picture, and makes me look like I know what I'm doing with a camera. Posted by Andie333 (Member # 7370) on :
Pony, I spent a month in India a few years ago. They do hold the cow in a sacred position, because they view all the gifts the cow offer essential to their way of life.
There's a McDonald's in Delhi, and they serve a chickpea type burger rather than hamburger.
Each day, the cows would be fed. They just roam the streets in Delhi and the surrounding areas. People bring food offerings to them.
While there are some dogs as pets, many dogs run wild in packs.
Kara, I couldn't resolve that fur thing you talked about. As a result, I haven't eaten any red meat in about 25 years.
I still don't feel entirely comfortable eating chicken or seafood (well, I make an exception for lobster) but they are part of my diet. I just don't have the whatever-it-takes to be completely vegetarian...
Andie
Posted by Kara Tyson (Member # 939) on :
The only people who really seem to go out of their way to avoid killing animals are the sect of Hindu's that use a cloth to swat away bugs when they walk (so they accidently dont swallow a gnat).
Posted by ponytail (Member # 36) on :
Hey Kara - it never ceases to amaze me the things you know or even find to read about!
In a billion, million years, I don't think I'd ever have the ability or desire to learn some of the things you seem to know!
I used to know stuff but, even then, it was really a more geographically centered knowledge and basically, I've lost even that somewhere along the way!
I believe you must be a very smart and educated person! What are you studying in college?
Just curious!
Thanks for all the info you provide and the thoughts you provoke - keep up the good work!
Sherry
Posted by Softballmom (Member # 6235) on :
Kara since you want to compare the countries I thought I would throw in the fact that they execute you if you kill a cow!!!
Americans don't put their animals in that high reguard so therefore you used a poor example.
Some animals were placed here for human survival and some for human service. It is not very hard to determine whitch ones are meant to eat and not to eat.
Also you can't run out and buy a cow to house train and let him sleep in the bed with you. Train him to turn the lights out and get you a drink out of the fridge. Lead you back home when you get lost. Sniff out drugs at the airport and sniff out dead bodies in debree. Sniff out a missing child over countless miles.
The animals that we are speaking of here are a nessesity to us weather some want to believe it or not.
I will also place money on the fact that some of these dogs that are left homeless will make their way to a place to trained as service dogs. Giving back to the comunity that saved their lives.
Posted by ponytail (Member # 36) on :
Amen - Softball
I heard one news account where the rescuers were refusing to rescue a blind lady and her guide dog. She refused to be rescued until they agreed to bring her dog too.
Now that one seemed like a no brainer. This was a service animal that the lady depended on.
I believe people need to be rescued in priority but, still don't see why they couldn't have at least allowed them to bring their "pets" if they wanted to and at least to get them to "high ground"! I certain w/ all the confusion though - they were all doing the best they could.
I totally get why pets can't be placed in the people shelters because of allergy, fleas, potential for injury to others etc - but, still seems like they could have let them ride in the boat out of the flood area - if there was room!
Oh gurl - don't dis the COW trainers of the world though!!! I will say, we did have a nice Brangus heifer a while back that would play ball and come when you called her! I never did manage to get her to sit, stay or lie down though
And I had a hen named Victoria that waited everyday for me on the porch so we could take a walk and "talk" some chicken talk! She loved to be held and "clucked" to - mainly just by me! My hubby tried it a few times, but apparently she didn't feel the love there!! She was the coolest girl and a good egg layer too!
All I know is I'm glad I live where I live and am able to have the type of animal interaction I do because I just love all these friends of mine!
In fact, my sheltie daughter is peering at me w/ those "isn't it time to snuggle in the bed and watch Regis and Kelly" eyes!! She can be sooo demanding!
Take care and have as good of a day as you can! Sherry
Posted by Kara Tyson (Member # 939) on :
Pony,
I just read alot. That's it. I could kick myself for not remembering the name of those Hindu's that swat away gnats because I wanted to put a photo up.
I am being edumicated in Nursing. But I will end up teaching a Science or perhaps nursing of some type.
I am very opinionated but just my personality. I respect all opinions. It is good to have opinions. I may not agree, but I think it is important.
So far as smart..HA! In primary school I was put in special ed classes because an iq test said I needed to be there!
Posted by Kara Tyson (Member # 939) on :
I remember now. The Jains. Many of them wear face masks so they wont accidently kill bacteria and such.
**I am not sure it is easy to tell what is appropriate food. What about a rabbit? Many people view rabbits as food. Many people view rabbits as pets.
Posted by LabRat (Member # 78) on :
Hi Pony, good to hear from you, you've been quiet for a long time. Seems my lyme is near static and my heart continues to improve. I do pretty much what I want so guess I have it made.
Starting my winter planting or at least the plowing, hope to have at least half my fields planted by the end of October. Planting corn for the cranes, peanuts for the feral hogs, Alfa and grazer for the deer. Found a special millet that I'm planting for the quail and then a field of bluebonnets for mama and the neighbors to enjoy next spring!
After 24 years we're leasing our land to deer hunters. Our neighbors all have plowed fields and little if any brush, so they set up deer blinds along our fence rows and lease them out. They have to know that this is very upsetting to us even though it is perfectly legal and a good source of income for them. So now we have deer blinds on our side of our fences, now I guess they will get pissed at us for harvesting our deer that we feed year round!
India has the cow thing and years ago I heard most were infected with TB and I believe it was being passed to humans, it posed a real problem for them at that time.
Eating cats and dogs, well it depends on how you were brought up. What ever your family raised you to do was, ``normal''. Until such time as outside influences got you to thinking that maybe you wanted to look at something in a different light. I have learned to never say never!
We have two Chihuahuas and wonder how we ever got by without little ``champions``. My wife is the alpha male of our pack and as long as she's happy, things seem to run pretty well, if you catch my drift.
I though I had a ringing in my ears but seems the ``alpha'' male is assigning tasks so I'll have to sign off for now. El Ratone
Posted by patchas (Member # 5156) on :
Hi:
I am posting this because some members may want to help or can send it along for others who may want to help:
My grandfather had dairy cows. His cows knew their names. He would stand at the door of the milk house and call each Momma in to feed her baby--and those cows knew their names and would come when they were called!
He had a dog, Major, that was so smart he could all but bring the cows home from the pasture from across the highway all by himself--but Major couldn't open the gate by himself!
My grandfather would sit out in the shade on August days and cut up Johnson grass into tiny pieces for the calves to eat. He really loved animals. He couldn't stand to send a cow to market even though it is a lot easier to do that than to bury one. One time he left his quail pen open and the quail all flew away--it really hurt his feelings.
There is no doubt that animals bring a lot to our lives.
Posted by Andie333 (Member # 7370) on :
Sherry, Your post made me grin. Thanks for what you wrote about the animals.
Kara, most of the Jains are office workers and business people. Being farmers would run counter to their faith, because they would have walk and plow the earth, and in doing so, they'd have to kill a lot of bugs and things living in the earth.
I appreciated the link about the harm being done to animals, but I couldn't watch the clips. Katrina has broken my heart again and again...I'm better with stories like this one:
A web site for Kara to see...
Posted by Softballmom (Member # 6235) on :
Hey Sherry,
Enjoyed your post. I had two chickens named Maverick and Goose, two geese named Bonnie and Clyde when I was growing up.
Every easter my Dad would bring us colored bities or bunnies. Pastel colors. He built pens for them. Man were those bunnies prolific.
We have a Rabit now named Jumper. He thinks he is a dog though. His pen is not far from the dog kennels. He runs back and forth when you go up to the pen and jumps up on top of his feeder. I swear one day he is gonna bark at me.
And no Kara I will never eat him. That was a better comparason yet still rabits aren't good for much compared to dogs and cats.
Posted by ponytail (Member # 36) on :
Hey Andie - no problemo - me have lots and lots of goofy animal stories!!! Anytime you need one don't hesitate to ask!!!
BTW - the sheltie snuggling far surpassed Regis and Kelly!! I haven't had the best of weeks lyme wise and basically we slept thru most of daytime TV -
now I don't know if Jason regained his memory or if Jessica aka Tess has been discovered or if Tad has figured out that Dixie is really Di Kirby and knows what he needs to save Julia . . .
You know - I missed seeing all my friends!! LOL
Oh well - I'm off to feed the fur kiddos some crunchy food!! Andrew the goat has been knocking on the back door for about 30 minutes !! And, I'm not even late yet!!!
Have a good weekend. Sherry
Posted by Kara Tyson (Member # 939) on :
My mother's family farmed (and ate) rabbits for food. They discouraged my mom from naming them, but she still did.
My grandmother grew up on a farm and she could wring the neck of a chicken fast and efficient (or so my mom says).
Posted by daniella (Member # 6753) on :
OK...Kara..your posts worry me a little..
Growing up didn't anyone in your family have a pet that they loved and nurtured? Enjoyed the glowing look of admiration a pet can give you?
Or did everyone kill them and eat them as you imply...
Sorry as a firm animal lover I can't at all see where you are coming from..
be well, daniella
Posted by Kara Tyson (Member # 939) on :
Of course we had pets that we cared for.
But to eat meat, you have to kill. Now there is a humane way of killing and a non humane way.
In my opinion, a person who buys chicken in the grocery store (not knowing the method of the kill) is more inhumane than the person who raises their own food and kills in a humane way.
Believe it or not, the meat in the grocery store was at one time alive. People these days are so far removed from living off the land they dont understand that anymore.
I truly think many people really believe meat comes packaged in plastic, in fish triangles or in patties:
I am always amazed at people who turn away in horror at a lamb on a spit, but these people are more than willing to buy oscar myer weiners in the supermarket.
And there are people who turn away in horror at being served grilled fish with the head on, but those same people think nothing of buying a McFish sandwhich.
Wringing the neck of a chicken may sound horrible, but it is less painful than than some of the more modern ways of processing in a chicken plant.
ANYONE who eats meat has a part in the killing of an animal. Period. It doesnt matter if it is a cow, sheep, cat, or dog.
Are we less responsible for killing an amimal if it is a cow vs. a dog? (on this matter PETA and the Hindu's have it right).
As a meat eater, our role in the killing is no less than the person who kills the animal--(perhaps more) since it is by our desire that this form of business prospers.
My grandmother could wring the neck of a chicken but she grew up in one of the most docile communities that exist in humanity--an Amish/Mennonite community.
But even the Amish must kill for food if they wish to eat meat.
Why is it less offensive to our society if people buy their meat from Burger King?
Why is now living on the land and growing your own food evil, distasteful, mean...but buying the food (and not getting our hands dirty) is perfectly acceptable?
[ 18. September 2005, 11:39 PM: Message edited by: Kara Tyson ]
Posted by Angela Bachmann (Member # 43) on :
Posted by pq (Member # 6886) on :
saddle bag steaks anyone?
Hell yea!!!!
Throw one of those bad boys on the grill
[ 19. September 2005, 01:49 PM: Message edited by: pq ]
Posted by Softballmom (Member # 6235) on :
I thought we were talking about dogs and cats? I know all about the chicken thing and hog thing.
We had a chicken farm raising 45,000 broiler chickens every eight weeks. I know how they are processed and still eat them. My Husband has a degree in ag science and works at one of the largest pork and turkey producers in the country. They also have a beef division but not large.
I still eat pork beef, and turkey too.
Like I said, some animals were put here for our survival and some for human service. It is not hard to tell the difference.
Also for those that believe in the scripture it states that we should partake of that meat that was created for that purpose. Can't remember the verse or how it was worded but it is in there.
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man reguardeth the life of his beast but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
Posted by Kara Tyson (Member # 939) on :
I dont think it is that easy to tell. Alot depends on your culture.
I cant condemn someone in Korea for eating a dog, if that is their culture. As long as it is a humane kill (many times it isnt).
Posted by pq (Member # 6886) on :
Judgement on the eating of cats and dogs, must be considered in the relative light of the culture, nation, circumstances, and other factors, in and underwhich they are consumed.
Posted by ponytail (Member # 36) on :
Wow if this isn't a testament to our inability to "stay on task"!! I know for sure it's testing my short term memory or lack there of!
Somehow we moved on from why was someone questioning tickedntx for trying to figure out how to rescue the abandoned pets in NO,
to wondering how NO evacuees were expected to leave their pets in the midst of the storm to,
to trying to determine if it was ok to rescue a pet instead of a dead person to,
which animals it is okay to leave
to which animals it's okay to eat and now to
which ways is it ok to kill the animal you are gonna eat.
Hmmmmm - maybe we should save this thread for our SSDI application ! Some kind of grisly proof of something.
Y'all - lets move on to praying the new hurricane Reta doesn't bash La, AL or Ms again or do the same thing to me in Texas!!
Actually, I'm prolly gonna be high and dry where I am - depending on the hit!
But, Charlie - you better git out if they tell ya too my man and Labrat you too!
U can BRING u animals and stay w/ me and hope no tree falls on you or that a tornado stays away!!
I got some water, some vienna sausage, some tuna fish some dog food, some horse food, some pony food, some goat food, some chicken food, some cat food and some BEER (bad for the lyme tho)!
Surely between all that food - the pets will survive the BBQ - LOL
Take care everyone and keep up the good work!
Off to town to pick up the wretched teenager from yet one more FFA activity! I really think y'all should email me some recipes for that one!!
Sherry
Posted by Softballmom (Member # 6235) on :
Sherry,
I don't think you should be asking for recipes on this thread!
No telling what you might get. Posted by ponytail (Member # 36) on :
whoa - that was wierd!! I checked in here and my post had reposted itself . . hmmmmm spooky !!!
you might be right about the recipes - so - please disregard!!
The terrible teen was actually in a semi-manageable mood when I picked her up so, I guess, I'll just let her marinate a little bit more!!!
Sherry
Posted by tickedntx (Member # 5660) on :
Found these posted at the Petfinder disaster forums:
The poor dog, in life the firmest friend, The first to welcome, foremost to defend, Whose honest heart is still the master's own, Who labours, fights, lives, breathes for him alone, Unhonour'd falls, unnoticed all his worth, Denied in heaven the soul he held on earth, While man, vain insect, hopes to be forgiven, And claims himself a sole exclusive heaven.
Lord Byron Inscription on the monument of his Newfoundland dog, Boatswain, 1808
BAGGAGE
Now that I'm home, bathed, settled and fed, All nicely tucked in my warm new bed. I'd like to open my baggage
Lest I forget, There is so much to carry - So much to regret.
Hmm . . . Yes there it is, right on the top Let's unpack Loneliness, Heartache and Loss, And there by my leash hides Fear and Shame.
As I look on these things I tried so hard to leave - I still have to unpack my baggage called Pain. I loved them, the others, the ones who left me,
But I wasn't good enough - for they didn't want me. Will you add to my baggage?
Will you help me unpack? Or will you just look at my things - And take me right back?
Do you have the time to help me unpack? To put away my baggage, To never repack?
I pray that you do - I'm so tired you see, But I do come with baggage - Will you still want me?
-Author Unknown *****
If Not For You
I would've died that day if not for you. I would've given up on life if not for your kind eyes. I would've used my teeth in fear if not for your gentle hands. I would have left this life believing that all humans don't care Believing there is no such thing as fur that isn't matted, skin that isn't flea bitten, good food and enough of it, beds to sleep on, someone to love me, to show me I deserve love just because I exist. Your kind eyes, your loving smile, your gentle hands Your big heart saved me... You saved me from the terror of the pound, Soothing away the memories of my old life. You have taught me what it means to be loved. I have seen you do the same for other dogs like me. I have heard you ask yourself in times of despair Why you do it When there is no more money, no more room, no more homes You open your heart a little bigger, stretch the money a little tighter Make just a little more room...to save one more like me. I tell you with the gratitude and love that shines in my eyes In the best way I know how Reminding you why you go on trying. I am the reason The dogs before me are the reason As are the ones who come after. Our lives would've been wasted, our love never given We would die if not for you.
Posted by sizzled (Member # 1357) on :
Judge not.
Posted by rosesisland2000 (Member # 2001) on :
...from The Bible
St. Matthew 10:29, 31
29 Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall now fall on the ground without your Father.
31 Fear ye not therefore, ye are of move value than many sparrows.
Posted by lymie tony z (Member # 5130) on :
A Speciest(form of the word species)
In Biology, a category of classification for living organisms. This group is just below genus and is usually capable of interbreeding.
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hmmmm - I'm feeling a tad bit better now - thanks so much to lymenet for allowing me a place to rage on at times and to you my fellow posters for talking about things other than that which shadows our every day life ![[kiss]](graemlins/kissing.gif)
!
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