posted
I have received a private message criticizing me for posting about the animal victims of Hurricane Katrina and for not caring about the human victims, including insinuatins of racism.
I certainly did not mean to offend anyone with my posts urging animal lovers not to forget the animals, and providing ways that they could help.
Please remember that these pets belong to human evacuees, many of whom are just as distraught over the loss of their pets as they would be over the loss of their family and friends. These people have lost everything else. They should not have to lose their pets, too, if it is possible to save them.
If you have any doubts about that, read some of the message boards where people are pleading for the rescue groups to save their pets.
Following was my response to that message:
<< I respect your opinion/criticism, but please be reassured that I care about the people, too. Because there are so many resources dedicated to the rescue and relief of the human victims, I have chosen to focus most of my energy on the animal victims.
I have posted similarly about helping human evacuees on local listservs, forwarding information about how people can help the people who have arrived here in Austin. Since there probably isn't anyone on Lymenet who can go the Austin Convention Center to fold sheets, sort clothes, or help evacuees with data entry, I haven't posted about that here.
-------------------- Suzanne Shaps STAND UP FOR LYME Texas (www.standupforlyme.org) (Please email all correspondence related to protecting Texas LLMDs to [email protected] with copy to [email protected]) Posts: 977 | From Austin, TX, USA | Registered: May 2004
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September 8, 2005, 6 p.m.: Distraught Couple Reunited With Forcibly Abandoned Animals; Officials Continue Heavy-Handed Evacuations of Vulnerable Animal Guardians
One of the more heartbreaking tales reported out of the Gulf Coast this week was that of Slidell, Louisiana, residents Valerie Bennett and her family. Ms. Bennett had offered her evacuators both her own wedding ring and her mother's wedding ring in an attempt to gain permission to bring her two dogs, cat, and guinea pig along when she and her ill husband, Lorne, were rescued from a flooded New Orleans hospital. The officials would not budge. She and her husband could only bring one item with them, and Mr. Bennett, a liver transplant recipient, needed medicine to survive. They, like thousands of others in New Orleans and beyond, were forced to leave their animals behind, seemingly to die.
Today it was reported that Mr. and Mrs. Bennett have been reunited with their four animals. According to the Associated Press, the couple headed to Atlanta, and the lucky animals were safely transported to a Texas veterinary clinic. A Houston couple who read of the Bennetts' plight offered to drive the animals to Atlanta to reunite the family. On Wednesday evening, Mr. and Mrs. Bennett were finally able to hug their beloved dogs, Oreo and Lady, as seen here.
But bad news continues to pour out of New Orleans. In the latest and perhaps most shocking example of officials' aggressive attempts to force these battered and in some cases elderly Americans to abandon their animals when evacuating, CNN reported the tale of a woman who identified herself as "Ms. Connie." The blind, elderly woman said she was repeatedly told to leave her guide dog behind in her rental home. The resolute preacher stood strong and told her evacuators that she would not leave without her companion. Ultimately, this courageous and compassionate woman won and was able to bring along the dog-who may well be her only surviving family member-when she left the city.
-------------------- Suzanne Shaps STAND UP FOR LYME Texas (www.standupforlyme.org) (Please email all correspondence related to protecting Texas LLMDs to [email protected] with copy to [email protected]) Posts: 977 | From Austin, TX, USA | Registered: May 2004
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JillF
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5553
posted
I cannot believe that!
The nerve of some ppl
Yes, all of us care about the humans in NO. But so many ppl are donating to help them and running stories on them - less than 1/2 of what is being done for humans is being done for the animals WHO HAVE NO WAY TO HELP THEMSELVES
They don't have family in another state to go to. They can't untie themselves from their yard or porch. They cannot open their front door to get out of their house. They cannot go into the fridge to get some water. They cannot scoop out their dog food to eat. Ppl have been seen shooting the dogs walking around for no reason.
Those rescuing the humans are NOT rescuing the animals. The animals swimming to rescue boats are being turned away.
I'm sure that all the pet owners out there are thrilled to see their pet survive. Many love their pets enough not to leave them. Many pets are part of their family.
It always amazes me how selfish humans can be
Posts: 1485 | From USA | Registered: Apr 2004
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Kara Tyson
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 939
posted
I like pets as much as the next person, but people come first. Even dead people come first. Then pets.
After the people are rescued & after the dead are taken care of...then those who wish can concentrate on animals.
I am one selfish human being. You bet. I am a speciest.
Dogs tend to gather in packs and become dangerous to humans. These dogs should be shot.
There are alligators roaming looking for humans. Better that they eat the pets than the people...snowball included.
I dont think the person should have sent a private email. Be brave enough to add your posting to mine.
-------------------- Kara Tyson Lyme Disease Support Group Of Alabama--MobileChapter Posts: 6022 | From Mobile, AL | Registered: Apr 2001
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JillF
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5553
posted
If I were dead and my dog was sitting in my house dying from lack of food or water, I would expect someone to rescue my LIVING pet instead of finding my DEAD body
Now, due to disease I would understand why collecting the bodies are extremely important
Unfortunately, many ppl really don't give a damn about pets. This is why so many dogs and cats are put to sleep every year. This is why pets are abandoned on the side of the road. This is why ppl don't neuter their pets and cause the population to skyrocket.
If it weren't for organizations, such as those rescuing these pets in NO, I can't even imagine what the stray pet population would be like.
And noone should be belittling or take it personal that certain ppl want to help the dying pets in NO. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean that that person is wrong
Posts: 1485 | From USA | Registered: Apr 2004
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Pet food companies, might consider donating animal biscuits, etc. All rescue personel can throw the biscuits to the stranded animals, since they can't rescue them.
Among those who should not be rescued are certain members of the idsa and the cdc; if dead in the water, leave 'em to the alligators and water moccasins. If alive, throw them some a dog biscuit, and say,"Annie, Annie, eh, Julio? No. Eh,uh, Otto? Are you O.K.?
-------------------- Suzanne Shaps STAND UP FOR LYME Texas (www.standupforlyme.org) (Please email all correspondence related to protecting Texas LLMDs to [email protected] with copy to [email protected]) Posts: 977 | From Austin, TX, USA | Registered: May 2004
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Softballmom
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6235
posted
We have enouph organizations and means to take care of both cituations. I don't think the Vet's are lining up to help humans.
Just think if in this terrible tradgedy your best friend (pet)was left behind. Wouldn't you hope that someone help it.
Tickedntx, I think that is one of the rudest things I have ever heard. Even if I thought it, which I don't, I sure wouldn't be hurtfull enouph to send you a private massage.
I have eleven dogs and one cat. Luckily when we have been faced with hurricanes we have the means to make sure they are safe. Some of these people had trouble getting out themselves much less taking their pets.
Pets lend a great service to humanity. Not that they should be at the top of the priority list but they should have a representative like you Tickedntx, and others who have come to their aid.
I say shame on the person that sent you that message. Your priority might not be the same as theirs but who are they to judge you?
Don't change what you are doing and try to overlook the rif-raf.
Cindy
-------------------- It's not the Lyme, I just can't spell! Posts: 1331 | From North Carolina | Registered: Sep 2004
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24bit-moderate
Unregistered
posted
Ticked, don't let the wacky, disgusting and evil anti-animal people get to you. You can always know someones true heart when you see how they react to animals. If a person treat kittens and dogs in high regard, gives them a lot of love, etc. you know they have a good heart and have a good heart towards people as well. Anti-animal people have complicated issues that are hard to understand, but they do deserve our prayers too.
You know the funny thing about the anti-animal folks is that they seem to see it as black and white. The animal rescuers actually help people too, because when they find an animal in a place where no other searchers have gone, they sometimes can find people. And they can radio in their location and they'll be immediately rescued. A lot of people that are trapped are with their animals and they're often barking. A dog can bark much louder and longer than a person can yell for help. I think the animals should be heard for peoples sake, as well.
Kara Tyson
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 939
posted
If I had left my cat behind, I would much rather a rescuer get to a childor any other human being first than to rescue my cat.
I care for my pet. But she is a pet. She is not a child. She is not equal to a child or any other human being (no matter what PETA says).
In fact, if there were a family starving. I would rather them eat my cat than starve.
If I were starving, I would have eaten snowball.
Are we now a society that cares more for animals than for people?
-------------------- Kara Tyson Lyme Disease Support Group Of Alabama--MobileChapter Posts: 6022 | From Mobile, AL | Registered: Apr 2001
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posted
Thank you to everyone out there who cares about the animals, too. My efforts are not deterred by detractors, and their comments do not diminish my resolve.
I think Softballmom said it very well when she reminded us that there are sufficient resources to address the needs of both humans and animals. In many cases, it is primarily a matter of the authorities just getting out of the way to allow the animal rescuers to do their work.
As we respond here and elsewhere about the need for compassion for and rescue of animal victims of this and other disasters, please keep in mind that animal lovers do themselves, and the animals, a tremendous disservice by responding to critics with venom and spite. It certainly won't change anyone's mind, and just contributes to the impression held by some people that we are just raving lunatics.
I understand the passion and temptation to respond this way, but it would be better to direct that energy towards something positive. Anyone interested can find ways to do that by visiting the Petfinder or similar forums.
The first rule of persuasion is that to get someone to where you are, you have to start where they are. Everyone, please remember this as you respond.
Please edit your message.
-------------------- Suzanne Shaps STAND UP FOR LYME Texas (www.standupforlyme.org) (Please email all correspondence related to protecting Texas LLMDs to [email protected] with copy to [email protected]) Posts: 977 | From Austin, TX, USA | Registered: May 2004
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I haven't seen any evidence that the animal rescue groups are driving by drowning babies to get to the animals. And the military and other rescuers are not taking on pets and leaving the owners behind.
Where there is a choice to be made, they are taking the humans. The sadness arises when they could have taken both, and they don't. A dog on my lap in a rescue boat is not preventing another person from coming on board.
The misperception here is that we need to make a choice. I don't believe that we do. The animal rescue groups just need to be allowed to do their work.
Suzanne
-------------------- Suzanne Shaps STAND UP FOR LYME Texas (www.standupforlyme.org) (Please email all correspondence related to protecting Texas LLMDs to [email protected] with copy to [email protected]) Posts: 977 | From Austin, TX, USA | Registered: May 2004
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Kara Tyson
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 939
posted
I disagree. If everyone takes their pet that is one space taken for a human being.
Right now there is plenty for rescuers to do.
If private oganizations want to focus on animals instead of humans, then they can. But I will not as a taxpayer pay for any bites, rabbies shots, or treatment of any kind--since they put themselves at risk.
In fact, if they get trapped, rescuers should not be required to come and get them. Nor should taxpayers be required to pay for food, clothing or shelter for pet rescuers.
I dont want my tax money used for such purposes. That, to me, is putting a needy person below an animal.
And (in this case) saying that an animal is more important and more worthy than a black person. And I can assure you, in this part of the country it is very much viewed that way.
A pet is not equal to a human being. Ever.
-------------------- Kara Tyson Lyme Disease Support Group Of Alabama--MobileChapter Posts: 6022 | From Mobile, AL | Registered: Apr 2001
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Softballmom
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6235
posted
There are horses roaming around there too. Rescurers gave two horses water and some vitles. Were they bad people because they paused for a moment from their work to do that.
I read somewhere that a person's compasion for animals reflects their compasion in general. maybe worded different but the same meaning.
-------------------- It's not the Lyme, I just can't spell! Posts: 1331 | From North Carolina | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
I believe it was Ghandi who said (paraphrasing) that a society can be judged by the way it treats its animals.
-------------------- Suzanne Shaps STAND UP FOR LYME Texas (www.standupforlyme.org) (Please email all correspondence related to protecting Texas LLMDs to [email protected] with copy to [email protected]) Posts: 977 | From Austin, TX, USA | Registered: May 2004
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posted
Kara said: >> Are we now a society that cares more for animals than for people?
No, I don't believe so, but I do believe that we have become a society in which an increasingly many number of people care about them equally. And I think that is a good thing.
Kara said: >> I dont want my tax money used for such purposes. That, to me, is putting a needy person below an animal.
I disagree. It acknowledges that pets are important to people, regardless of economic status. Many of the people who are refusing to leave their homes are people who have very little, especially now, except for the loyalty and love of their pets.
A news report last night, I believe on CNN, showed a group of rescuers (National Guard?) who were able to convince a woman to leave her home in the flooded 9th ward by agreeing to rescue the dogs she was caring for, because she would not agree to leave otherwise. They are all safe now, and no people were harmed in the process.
Kara said: >> A pet is not equal to a human being. Ever.
Maybe not to you, but to many, they are. People who don't share that sentiment would do well to at least accept that many people do feel this way, because there isn't anything you could say to change our minds, just as there is nothing we could say to change yours.
I think it is important to consider that there aren't human lives being lost because animals are being rescued. If they weren't there saving animals, animal rescuers would have no reason to be in the area at all. They are providing an important service by rescuing the animals so that the main focus can be on saving human life.
And the human rescuers are not rescuing animals at the peril of humans. Many are taking on animals because their owners are too distraught to leave them behind.
-------------------- Suzanne Shaps STAND UP FOR LYME Texas (www.standupforlyme.org) (Please email all correspondence related to protecting Texas LLMDs to [email protected] with copy to [email protected]) Posts: 977 | From Austin, TX, USA | Registered: May 2004
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Kara Tyson
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 939
posted
There are still people trapped in New Orleans.
Some people may only have 10 minutes to live. If a rescuer pauses to play with an animal or feed one or rescue one... that person dies.
I never said anyone was a bad person. Do I think their priorities are mixed up? Yes, I do.
Spending hours arguing with that elderly woman about her Mr. Foo Foo wasted time. We will never know if she caused the death of someone. If she did, she ought to be arrested for hindering medical care to a dying person.
Like I said, animal rescuers can do what they want. But if they are bit or get rabies dont come begging to the American taxpayer for your medical bills to be paid. And dont take up room at the Astrodome either.
-------------------- Kara Tyson Lyme Disease Support Group Of Alabama--MobileChapter Posts: 6022 | From Mobile, AL | Registered: Apr 2001
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Softballmom
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6235
posted
talk about compasion, while were arresting the owner lets kill Mr. Foo Foo too!
That was a bit extreme don't you think. Even through acts of kindness people can still find a way to find fault. This country never ceases to amaze me.
-------------------- It's not the Lyme, I just can't spell! Posts: 1331 | From North Carolina | Registered: Sep 2004
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Kara Tyson
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 939
posted
If people are starving, I have no problem with frying Mr. Foo Foo.
What Ghandi was refering to was downright torture of animals. I wonder what Ghandi would have said if he saw colonialists racing past poor begging Indians in the street in order to get their favorite poodle a lavander scented bath, grooming, and tea biscuits.
-------------------- Kara Tyson Lyme Disease Support Group Of Alabama--MobileChapter Posts: 6022 | From Mobile, AL | Registered: Apr 2001
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Kara Tyson
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 939
posted
The best thing would have been for the rescuers to not have wasted time with that woman. If she didnt want to leave..fine. Move on to someone who is trapped and wants to leave.
You better believe if my family was trapped and starving I would eat my pet. I would eat my n'bors pet too. A domesticated animal is still an animal.
-------------------- Kara Tyson Lyme Disease Support Group Of Alabama--MobileChapter Posts: 6022 | From Mobile, AL | Registered: Apr 2001
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posted
For a video report form this Los Angeles station of a black lab who saved a man from drowning, go here http://kcal9.com/homepage and scroll down to the link which reads "Heroic Black Lab 'Katrina' Rescued In New Orleans".
The man whom she saved was not allowed to bring her on the rescue helicopter yesterday, so the news crew went back and found her on the front porch of the same house where she had been the day before.
-------------------- Suzanne Shaps STAND UP FOR LYME Texas (www.standupforlyme.org) (Please email all correspondence related to protecting Texas LLMDs to [email protected] with copy to [email protected]) Posts: 977 | From Austin, TX, USA | Registered: May 2004
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Kara Tyson
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 939
posted
I would disagree with compassion related to the way people treat animals.
There are people who never give a dime to help a fellow human being but have their pets in a day care, a message pillow for their dog, bows in their dogs hair, special pet perfume...they dress their dogs in human clothing.
Are these people more compassionate? No way.
It is their right to spent their money the way they want but I dont think they are more compassionate people.
-------------------- Kara Tyson Lyme Disease Support Group Of Alabama--MobileChapter Posts: 6022 | From Mobile, AL | Registered: Apr 2001
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Kara Tyson
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 939
posted
Sorry for the black lab, but its an animal.
-------------------- Kara Tyson Lyme Disease Support Group Of Alabama--MobileChapter Posts: 6022 | From Mobile, AL | Registered: Apr 2001
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posted
Kara said: >> There are people who never give a dime to help a fellow human being but have their pets in a day care, a message pillow for their dog, bows in their dogs hair, special pet perfume...they dress their dogs in human clothing.
That is a grossly inaccurate generalization with no basis in fact. I have always taken very good care of my dogs, but have also given a lot of money to many (human) organizations over the years, and I know many others who have done the same.
-------------------- Suzanne Shaps STAND UP FOR LYME Texas (www.standupforlyme.org) (Please email all correspondence related to protecting Texas LLMDs to [email protected] with copy to [email protected]) Posts: 977 | From Austin, TX, USA | Registered: May 2004
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24bit-moderate
Unregistered
posted
quote: A pet is not equal to a human being. Ever.
I'll tell you one thing, if I had a choice to save Charles Manson vs. my pet, do you think my choice is hard? No, some people are animals, and lowly ones at that. Everyone has their own opinion on where to draw the line. I'm obviously for saved both, and it can be done. But on the sole point of all humans come before pets, I think there are plenty of exceptions.
On the other extreme, some people that can't have kids have pets that they care about as much as kids, and these pets are extremely important to these people and serve in important role in society.
Again as I said before, searching for animals saves humans, as well. It's not a black and white issue.....you can't compartmentalize reality.
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Kara Tyson
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Member # 939
posted
Dont EVEN try to compare a pet with a child. It is NOT a child.
Do you realize we feed out dogs better than what most human beings get to eat in this world??
All this pampering of pets is based in fact. These pet services stay in business. I guess they offer services for free??
Just today I read about some new gadgets for Americans:
Hotels are starting to offer pet massages, pet pillows and dog sitters.
There are now animal education CD's to teach parrots to speak with accents.
There are now vidotapes to entertain pets while their owners are at work.
There are dog toys recorded with the owner's voice to reduce separation anxiety.
There are food dispensers with built in cameras so that owners can observe pets eating or feed them via the internet!!
This is NOT compassion. This is not good. This is not the show of a moral society. This is a society whose priorities are mixed up.
-------------------- Kara Tyson Lyme Disease Support Group Of Alabama--MobileChapter Posts: 6022 | From Mobile, AL | Registered: Apr 2001
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posted
I'm an animal lover and activist from way back.. and commend anyone working for their care and relief.. I also worry very much about the environmental effect on wildlife and ecology down there as well. I hope their are wildlife rescue efforts as is appropriate.
and what is pouring into the sea! the sea life, fish, sea mammals effected must be staggering. The depletion of wetlands was a huge environmental concern and now look what's happened.
I love pets too and hate to see the pics of them suffering..
But I have to agree that people come first and this whole disaster has been so gut wrenchingly torturous to human life it's hard justify placing the needed focus on pets..when you consider the amount of help to humans that has been sorely lacking for 2 weeks now. if adequate help for human rescue was provided throughout this, we could have gotten to the animals much sooner, is another crime on all of this. But that was a total failure..
I think at this point in time certainly both efforts should be supported.. but with proper proportion and priority be placed, certainly an animal rescue mission that turns out to be in the right place at the right time to save humans should choose the humans.
Maybe the reason you got mails over this, Ticked, is because there are so many threads here on animal rescue.. it might not have been upsetting to some if there were just one or two threads here on the effort.. Just my guess...
Posts: 8337 | From the other shore | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
Kara, and others who would criticize those of us who are working to save the animal victims:
Maybe your energies/efforts would be better spent on actively working to help in the human rescue and relief effort instead of criticizing people who have chosen to focus on animal rescue, where there are far fewer resources.
You might start with posting more information in new threads in this forum about the things you are focusing your energies on.
We can all make a difference, and are free to determine where to focus our efforts.
I received only one negative private correspondence here, the one referenced in the first post of this thread, as well as the criticism you have seen in the replies.
The response to a "Letters to the Editor" in the Austin American Statesman (local paper) brought a number of emails and one phone call, all supportive and grateful for the reminder that pets are suffering, too.
I have also emailed over 100 friends, relatives, and acquaintances with information about how to help, also with only positive feedback.
All in all, I think, very good. I had expected much worse.
Suzanne
-------------------- Suzanne Shaps STAND UP FOR LYME Texas (www.standupforlyme.org) (Please email all correspondence related to protecting Texas LLMDs to [email protected] with copy to [email protected]) Posts: 977 | From Austin, TX, USA | Registered: May 2004
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posted
I'm sorry, Suzzane, I was genuinely commending your efforts, not criticizing them at all..
I was speaking to the discussion here relating to the dispersal of rescue efforts overall.
I made a suggestion that maybe more like two threads with all the info contained would be better recieved, and also because I would think that would be more effective in getting help for the animals here. IMO
Mo
Posts: 8337 | From the other shore | Registered: Jul 2002
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In thinking about your message, I realized that, and was just coming back to take your name off the salutation in my last post. I am running back and forth among several boards, and did not think clearly enough before replying.
I apologize, and will do that now.
Suzanne
-------------------- Suzanne Shaps STAND UP FOR LYME Texas (www.standupforlyme.org) (Please email all correspondence related to protecting Texas LLMDs to [email protected] with copy to [email protected]) Posts: 977 | From Austin, TX, USA | Registered: May 2004
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Sue vG
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 3143
posted
This issue will never be resolved to the satisfaction of either side.
Either you believe that animals are innocent sentient beings that deserve to be protected, or you don't.
Personally, I simply don't party with people who don't "get" the value pets have to some people. Nothing I can say will change their opinion, and nothing they can say will change mine.
We have irreconcilable differences that will not be sorted out in this lifetime.
Posts: 1307 | From TX | Registered: Sep 2002
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JillF
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5553
posted
If my son lost me and someone could save his dog, it would be one less tragedy.
I'd want someone to find his dog before she died instead of finding my dead body. After all I am dead. My body is a heck of alot less important that saving my son's puppy. It would be something happy for my son to be reunited with his pet that he loves so much. My son deserves that.
Why should my son lose a parent and a pet?
Do I think that ppl should rescue only animals? No. I do think it's perfectly fine for rescue groups to be saving animals at this time though.
I am sure many ppl are so very happy to be reunited with their pet. It will make a small difference in their lives at this moment.
Personally, I'd rather the government put my tax dollars towards rescuing animals vs. a whole bunch of crap my tax dollars go to instead.
I see the worth in helping innocent animals when noone else will. Especially since they are usually in their sad predicaments due to the selfishness of uncaring humans.
There is so much literal crap that the government spends on that I see no worth whatsoever for.
And pets DO contribute when it comes to humans. Search and Rescue dogs. Dogs and cats that visit the sick - which have been shown to help patients. Pets have been shown to help lower ppl's blood pressure. There are a ton of ways where pets contribute to their families and the human race.
Posts: 1485 | From USA | Registered: Apr 2004
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JillF
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5553
posted
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
This is way too funny
I went from 5 stars to 4 stars after adding my opinion on this thread
Too funny
Since I am no longer in highschool, I won't go around and demoting others I don't agree with but I did get a really good laugh from this
*must tell Dr WiseAss*
Posts: 1485 | From USA | Registered: Apr 2004
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This is an innovative network of animal rescuers, funded by the Muttshack Foundation, a subsidiary of the National Heritage Foundation.
Please consider donating "Muttshacks" (open air crates) to house Katrina's rescued pets.
-------------------- Suzanne Shaps STAND UP FOR LYME Texas (www.standupforlyme.org) (Please email all correspondence related to protecting Texas LLMDs to [email protected] with copy to [email protected]) Posts: 977 | From Austin, TX, USA | Registered: May 2004
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Andie333
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7370
posted
I've been reading this thread with incredulity. It seems to me that there's more than enough suffering to go around.
People's resources are needed, human and financial. It's absolutely not up to me to judge the decisions other people make about how to help and why they feel help in any given direction is important.
I've watched as millions and millions of dollars have been funnelled into the Red Cross. Kara, you yourself singled out their lack of viable assistance in the days after Katrina...at least in your area. As Jill brought up, is it better to give my money to them or to make different choices?
I have a very unpampered dog and a cat I brought in from the street. What they've given me isn't important as far as this discussion is concerned. For me, the important thing --and the bottom line --is this: I have made a commitment to them...to take care of them. Period. Do I value them more than my partner of 15 years? Or my family and friends? To me, those questions aren't even relevant.
The bottom line, for me, is that I have taken in these living creatures, and that gives me a responsibility for them and to them. Just as I have a responsibility to loved ones and community.
I also know there are a LOT of people who feel exactly the same way.
Had I been living in NO during Katrina and not done everything I could to care for these animals that I've chosen to place in my care...I would have a very hard time living with that. Just as I would if I walked out on my family and/ or friends.
That's who I am. My responsibilities and my values.
Kara, you keep mentioning Snowball. I saw footage of a little boy whose heart was broken because he had to leave his friend behind. Snowball was as much his friend and held as much value as any human being at that moment. I promise you, you'll never convince him (or me) that Snowball is expendable.
It so happens, I've donated to both human and animal rescue efforts. To me, it doesn't have to be either/ or...and shouldn't be. As I said at the start of this post, there's enough suffering to go around.
If this sets me up for critical emails and subsequent negative posts, so be it. I'm not asking anyone else to see things my way. In this time of such widespread suffering and chaos, when every resource is needed and necessary, this seems like a time to help, not to judge how other people choose to do that.
Andie
Posts: 2549 | From never never land | Registered: May 2005
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Andie333
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7370
posted
One addition: Jill, after reading your previous post, I tried to log on and give you five stars, but I'd already done that.
No repeat voting.
Just wanted to let you know.
Andie
Posts: 2549 | From never never land | Registered: May 2005
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posted
Andie said: >> In this time of such widespread suffering and chaos, when every resource is needed and necessary, this seems like a time to help, not to judge how other people choose to do that.
Very eloquently stated, Andie. Thank you.
-------------------- Suzanne Shaps STAND UP FOR LYME Texas (www.standupforlyme.org) (Please email all correspondence related to protecting Texas LLMDs to [email protected] with copy to [email protected]) Posts: 977 | From Austin, TX, USA | Registered: May 2004
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9/10 6:47pm PST ASCENSION PARISH SHERIFF STOPS RESCUERS FROM SHELTER - ARMED GUARDS OUTSIDE WON'T LET US IN! Because the Louisiana State Veterinarian refuses to lift the 15 day quarantine hold period, the Gonzales state-designated shelter, is now considered full by the local sheriff. The Parish Sheriff is holding Pasado Rescuers back with loaded guns, despite the fact we have full vans, loaded with animals - the result of a 19-hour-day of rescue. We need to raise hell - call local media, whoever you can, the state vet needs to cut the bureaucracy and allow foster families, from around the country, to take these animals!
Late last night, after working a 15 hour day in 95 degree heat, wearing heavy rubber hip waders, and trying to scale rusted cyclone fencing (and not tear their rubber waders - the water is horrid). They used crow bars to get into a small apartment building - the windows were covered with heavy metal bars and all the doors were locked.
Hayden and Ginger, two of our rescuers, finally got inside and went door to door, breaking the doors in if they had to. They turned a corner, and there stood a man, ragged, and beaten. He wouldn't leave, because his dog, a pure-bred Husky, had had a litter of puppies a week ago. He wouldn't leave them behind. He broke into tears, and our rescuers told us, so did they.
Our rescue crew had already rescued 40 dogs, many cats, and birds, and needed to start transport back to the triage station. But they HAD to get this man, and his dogs, out of there.
"We begged him to leave. We told him, 'Your life has ended here. There is a new beginning out there. Let us take your dogs, we will care for them.' He was steadfast. He feared he'd never see them again.
The mama dog's milk had already run dry. She was dehydrated, as were two other 10-month-old Husky's who were also living with the man. "We just wouldn't leave him there," Hayden told us last night. "We were going anywhere until we got him out of there and got those dogs."
Our rescuer's persistence worked.
To get around the military (who will not let anyone take their animals), the Pasado crew managed to sneak the man into one of our vans, with all of the dogs. He would be join a family member in Baton Rouge. Then, we learned, the family would not allow the dogs to come.
Mama dog, is now on IV fluids, as are the pups and the two 10-month-olds, at our triage location South of New Orleans. They will recover. Our rescuers, slept with them last night.
We need homes for these little ones now, and for the mama and her two friends. Who would want to adopt them? But says Hayden, "They'd have to keep the name we gave to the mama, who we wept over, seeing her try to nurse her babies, but couldn't...it's Katrina."
-------------------- Suzanne Shaps STAND UP FOR LYME Texas (www.standupforlyme.org) (Please email all correspondence related to protecting Texas LLMDs to [email protected] with copy to [email protected]) Posts: 977 | From Austin, TX, USA | Registered: May 2004
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JillF
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5553
'Heroic Black Lab 'Katrina' Rescued In New Orleans'
This black lab saved a man's life who could not swim. This dog could not be evacuated with the man and the man left the dog in tears. She has since been rescued herself.
This video is one of several reasons why animals deserve saving.
Posts: 1485 | From USA | Registered: Apr 2004
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posted
I wasn't going to reply to this post, I wasn't going to do it but it was one of those things where the mind said one thing and the hands did another.. For myself, My "pets" are my "kids".. Since I can not have children my 6 dogs have become my children and are VERY much apart of my family. They are, family members and there is no way in the world I would leave them behind I dont' care how bad it got... It just wouldn't happen.. As for the pets in NO.. I have donated to the ASPCA and I plan to do this for as long as I can... Ive noticed since moving here to the south most people here look at their "pets" as nothing more than animals. The cruelty I have seen to the "animals" just in my own complex here is heart breaking and enraging to me. I have called the authorities countless times to no avail. People that used to live behind me went out and bought thier little girl a 4 week old puppy. Cute right? Not so.. They left this poor baby tied up outside with no shelter food or water for days... Well a hurricane hit 2 yrs ago and there was this poor little baby out in the elements screaming it's head off. I promptly got up off my duff, walked over there cut the puppy loose, brought it home, warmed him up, dried him off , gave him a good meal and found him a forever home with people who wanted and loved him at first sight.. So, did I steal that dog? You bet I did.. Would I do it again ? You bet I would...
-------------------- Suzanne Shaps STAND UP FOR LYME Texas (www.standupforlyme.org) (Please email all correspondence related to protecting Texas LLMDs to [email protected] with copy to [email protected]) Posts: 977 | From Austin, TX, USA | Registered: May 2004
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24bit-moderate
Unregistered
posted
quote:Originally posted by Kara Tyson: Dont EVEN try to compare a pet with a child. It is NOT a child.
Do you realize we feed out dogs better than what most human beings get to eat in this world??
All this pampering of pets is based in fact. These pet services stay in business. I guess they offer services for free??
Just today I read about some new gadgets for Americans:
Hotels are starting to offer pet massages, pet pillows and dog sitters.
There are now animal education CD's to teach parrots to speak with accents.
There are now vidotapes to entertain pets while their owners are at work.
There are dog toys recorded with the owner's voice to reduce separation anxiety.
There are food dispensers with built in cameras so that owners can observe pets eating or feed them via the internet!!
This is NOT compassion. This is not good. This is not the show of a moral society. This is a society whose priorities are mixed up.
Sorry a pet IS like a child to MANY people. Pets also keep the elderly alive much longer. These are facts that you can't change. It's reality.
It's perfectly fine to love an animal like that. For someone like you that doesn't have much regard for animals, I can see how frustrating this would be. But I think you have no business telling other people what their priorities ought to be.
My pets are my children until I can have my own. If my house were on fire or if it were filling up with water or ?????? I would risk my life to save them, as well. I wouldn't go on a suicide mission for them, but I would certainly take a lot of risk to save them.
By the way, your list of pet massages, video's, etc. have nothing to do with me or most other people that love their pets like kids. Most people couldn't afford that anyway. So what you stated has no relevance and doesn't make sense as to why I shouldn't be allowed to care a lot about my pets.
It's not a matter of them being an animal, it's the close friendship and bond you may have with a particular living creature. The more love and effort you put into a cat, for example, the more they become more like a person. They develop such a great personality and have depth. It's that way even with people, the more you put into kids, the more personality and sparkle they have.
My cat Coda has been there for me at the worst times of my life, and she's not just an ordinary cat to me. People that don't like animals just don't understand the bond that some people have with their pets. They do become like little people to them, and there's nothing wrong with that.
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JillF
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5553
posted
quote:Originally posted by Andie333: One addition: Jill, after reading your previous post, I tried to log on and give you five stars, but I'd already done that.
No repeat voting.
Just wanted to let you know.
Andie
Ah, no big deal. I'm surprised I even noticed it. But thanks for trying.
If I really cared about the stars and went around complaining about them like some, I'd just disable them.
I take it as a positive thing that someone who obviously has a problem with something I said decided to demote my butt.
Goes to show you the maturity of that person...and I'm the better person since I won't turn around and do the same thing to others who disagree with me.
Posts: 1485 | From USA | Registered: Apr 2004
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posted
y'all please give Kara, et.al. a break, and stop implicitly "indicting" them for a lack of compassion, thusly causing her and others under these circumstances to 'qualify' themselves with respect to animals; its very unfair.
by the standards of some, lewis and clark, and Co. are indictable for passing up an unlimited supply of salmon from the columbia river (when they did not contain plutonium/other radionuclides), and, instead ate their, and/or the indians' dogs, and maybe a horse or two.
its an understatement to say the gulf coast is an extreme situation where all laws, regulations, mores, and folkways are off---total chaos. I, and many of us have not experienced this kind of thing.
consider that, prior to the hurricane, new orleans had 5 murders per day; this alone implies a lot more criminality. we've seen, or heard what happened already. i say "9mm biscuits" for those animals are trained to be killers,and those that constitute exponential threats of infectious diseases, including wild ones.
viewing 24 bit's photos on another thread, and using this estimate from the photos to calculate across the storm area, i'd say a commendable job was done in animal rescue. sadly, many more will perish.
Posts: 2708 | Registered: Feb 2005
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Andie333
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7370
posted
I spent a month in India. There, the feelings about animals vary from ours here in a number of ways...some of them pretty difficult for me to understand.
While many people in Delhi had dogs as pets, just as many dogs ran wild, sometimes sleeping at night in gypsy camps.
I have to say I was never ever attacked by a dog pack, even when I had food. Never even approached, except by one puppy who always managed to seek me out.
Cows are venerated. People leave food out for the cows who roam the streets. The cow, it is believed, offers continuous gifts to people, such as milk, yogurt, etc. At the McDonalds in Delhi, you could get milkshakes but not hamburgers. Instead, they offer a vegetarian alternative.
None of this was especially easy for me to understand. But few things in that amazing and complex culture were quickly learned.
The point, as I see it, is to do my best to respect the feelings people have...even (and especially) if I don't understand them.
Andie
Posts: 2549 | From never never land | Registered: May 2005
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posted
pq said: >> y'all please give Kara, et.al. a break, and stop implicitly "indicting" them for a lack of compassion, thusly causing her and others under these circumstances to 'qualify' themselves with respect to animals; its very unfair.
I appreciate that you want to defend your friend, but Kara has repeatedly insisted that those of us who feel connected to animals and want to help them survive Katrina have misplaced priorities, and other defects of character. How is this different from noting her lack of compassion for animal victims of Katrina?
To say that Kara lacks compassion for animals is a statement of fact made clear in her numerous posts. She is entitled to her opinion, but she has not hesitated to condemn those who hold a position different from hers, so, as such, comments about her lack of compassion for animals are not inappropriate in the context of this discussion.
In fact, they are quite accurate. If she does not want to be openly criticized for her position on the subject, she should not have posted it, especially so vehemently and repeatedly.
I don't see her complaining, she seems to be able to hold up to the discussion, and given her obvious clarity on the subject, I suspect that she would agree with the observation.
I am not sure what you are trying to say in the rest of your post, but it appears that you believe that the animals in need of help in the area are vicious. Yes, some are, and they will have to be dealt with appropriately under the circumstances, but my observation based on television reporting is that most are not.
-------------------- Suzanne Shaps STAND UP FOR LYME Texas (www.standupforlyme.org) (Please email all correspondence related to protecting Texas LLMDs to [email protected] with copy to [email protected]) Posts: 977 | From Austin, TX, USA | Registered: May 2004
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posted
I wasn't going to reply to this post but I just have to commend Ticked for what she is doing. Keep up the good work.
I am very much an animal lover. I have 3 Yorkies and would never leave them behind. They are my "furkids" even though I have grown kids. They are always teasing me that I think more of the dogs than I do them. They love them almost as much as I do.
I'm watching CNN right now and they say there are thousands searching for pets. I'm so happy to hear this. I'm not advocating rescuing pets before people at all. I do think they deserve to be helped. They cannot help themsevles and depend on us.
Before I get blasted here, my husband is in MS as we speak unloading a camper to be used as temporary housing. He will be running back and forth for the next few weeks doing this along with my son. Fortunately we own a business so we were able to work it out so that he could do this.
I understand that they have ordered 40,000 2006 models. The number is just hearsay so don't know for sure. I do know that hubby has been in line since 5:30 this morning waiting to unload and just now got inspected. So he sat in line for 4 1/2 hours so they are getting a lot coming in.
Anyway, just wanted to let you know they are trying to find housing for these unfortunate people. It's just all so sad.
Ticked, I appreciate all you are doing. If hubby wasn't delivering these campers I would have had him take our boat to use for animal rescue. I saw where they were needing alot more. We have a pontoon which would be perfect. Just keep up the good work and I admire you for what you are doing.
Take care, Sapphire101
[ 11. September 2005, 03:16 PM: Message edited by: sapphire101 ]
Posts: 495 | From KY USA | Registered: Dec 2004
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Sue vG
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 3143
posted
quote:Originally posted by tickedntx: Andie said: >> In this time of such widespread suffering and chaos, when every resource is needed and necessary, this seems like a time to help, not to judge how other people choose to do that.
Andie333
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7370
posted
Sapphire, Thanks for letting us know about your family down there helping.
I think this has been a time when I've been the most upset about having Lyme. I'm still far too medically vulnerable to put myself in that sort of disease-rampant situation. The last thing on earth I need right now is more bacteria!
Still, I commend your family on their efforts, and I hope you'll pass that along.
Andie
Posts: 2549 | From never never land | Registered: May 2005
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24bit-moderate
Unregistered
posted
If I were completely well, I would be out there helping with the animal rescue right now. I've even thought about telling my boss that I need a few weeks off of PTO. But.......my immune system already has enough to deal with and it would be better to send money rather than screw myself up. But this is one of those times where I really, really wish I had never gotten Lyme.
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