Topic: What is with all this detoxing - is it really necessary
Health
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6034
posted
I am wondering if detoxing is really necessary? Drink lots of water, with lemon, and you are fine are not? That is what I do, now.
Eat raw salads with olive oil, grated beets and lemon and that will help with the liver and gallbladder.
Sauna if you can, sweat from exercising is good, I am not exercising now enough to sweat, but later maybe.
and the medication for toxin binding from the LLMD's that some give you.
Our body is an amazing system, it is designed to detox on its own, once the antibiotics start to kill the bugs, our system can take care of the detoxing.
All this and that, is too much to handle, I worked with ND's for years and did detoxing, and it helped, but then sick again.
So, I would say, is not simple a good way to go, without all this detoxing?
I say this because I dont find it does much for me, I did many many cleanses before antibioics for years off and on, so maybe perhaps that is why for me I find it is not an issue, and i had the mercury out and did all that detoxing.
I do like saunas, I have one at our house here, but I feel why not go at the pace your body can go at, and let you own body detox, eatting healthy,
I just am burned out, and am keeping it simple, when I first started antibiotics for 7 months I did all this detoxing, like everyone on here, but I did not find it did much.
So, I am keeping it simple. Let the body detox on its own.
too much to handle and so expensive some of these things, I just cannot afford it, and wonder if there are others that
got well, from keeping it simple.
I spent sooo much money at ND's with detoxing, before I found out I had lyme, and I then started to see a ND again, when I was first starting lyme treatemtn, but it was so much money, and I did not feel it made a difference that much.
I am also very paranoid to add in things like charcoal, because I have found that some supps seemed to make the antibiotics less effective, so I am careful.
I think maybe some psyllium and bentonite for 5 days or so once every couple months may be fine for the intestines, and that is it.
I am burned out from pushing to get well, and trying too hard. Burned out. Right now, I am so burned out I could not even care if I died in my sleep, I just cannot push anymore, maybe that is why.
Trish
Posts: 1250 | From Canada | Registered: Aug 2004
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SForsgren
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7686
posted
In chronically ill people, the body doesn't detox well on its own. If it did, it is my opinion that we would not be sick. Most of us are loaded with toxins and heavy metals and I think that is where the infections go in our bodies. If we get the metals and toxins out, the infections are much more easily resolved.
Do we have to detox? No. Do I personally believe it greatly increases your chances of a full and lasting recovery? Absolutely!
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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randibear
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 11290
posted
since i can't afford all the stuff from the doc, are there good over the counter products that will work just as effectively, say for heavy metals, etc.?
-------------------- do not look back when the only course is forward Posts: 12262 | From texas | Registered: Mar 2007
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-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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Carol in PA
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 5338
posted
The liver detoxifies so many things in the bloodstream, including the toxins left by the spirochetes.
The liver uses glutathione in doing its work. People with chronic illness are usually low in glutathione....heh, wonder why.
One way we can assist is to make sure the ingredients needed to make glutathione are available.
I took glutathione tablets, until I read that it doesn't absorb well through the intestines.
So I took glutathione sublingual tablets, which dissolve in the mouth and are absorbed through the oral mucosa into the bloodstream.
Then I read that glutathione in the bloodstream doesn't actually help the liver do its work. The liver does better if it has the ingredients available to make the glutathione.
(I wonder if this is true, as some people who get intravenous glutathione report very good results.)
Anyways, the next thing I found was undenatured whey, which has the building blocks to make glutathione.
Full Range and Highest Levels of Naturally Occurring Glutathione Precursors: Covalent Bonded Cysteine, Lactoferrin, Immunoglobulins, and Active Peptides.
There are many ways to detox, and I'm trying to find the things that will help the body's organs to do their jobs better.
Obviously, it's still a learning process for me.
Carol
Posts: 6947 | From Lancaster, PA | Registered: Feb 2004
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
Health, I fully understand your problems. Sometimes I felt like trying to get through a 10 foot wall made of iron!
"and i had the mercury out and did all that detoxing."
What did you do to get the metals out of the body once the amalgams had been removed? How many years did you work on detoxing heavy metals?
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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clairenotes
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 10392
posted
I have really noticed a difference in how I feel since taking a whey protein drink along with a few other detoxing products. This is especially true when I use them along with killing agents. But perhaps not everyone feels the benefits in such an immediate way as I do.
I am sorry you are feeling this way. It can be such a struggle at times .
Claire
Posts: 1111 | From Colorado | Registered: Oct 2006
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shazdancer
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 1436
posted
Hi, Health. I did it your way, detoxing in simple ways, like hot baths and a healthy diet. It worked for me, and provided temporary improvement. Once my bug load was low enough, my body could take over its normal job of detoxing, like always.
Take care,
Shaz
Posts: 1558 | From the Berkshires | Registered: Jul 2001
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TerryK
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 8552
posted
quote: I worked with ND's for years and did detoxing, and it helped, but then sick again.
Even though you were getting rid of the toxins, you were not getting rid of the steady source of the toxins (the infections) so it makes sense that you would get sick again until the source of the toxins were removed.
I think ones genetic ability to detox, number of biotoxin exposures (mold, lyme etc.) and length of illness have a lot to do with why some of us need an aggressive detox regime.
Lab tests that my ILADS LLMD ran, inidcated that we were killing a lot of bugs but I wasn't getting rid of the debri and I felt VERY ill. We are also reasonably sure that I have difficulty getting rid of the biotoxins created by lyme.
Apparently about 25% of the general population has difficulty getting rid of biotoxins. I would guess that percentage is much higher in lyme patients because like Scott, I believe that part of the reason some of us are sick is because we can't get rid of the toxins.
The symptoms of lyme apparently are due to the toxins and debri that is created by the bugs. The longer we are sick, the more toxins accumulate in those of us who can't get rid of them. Then, add bug killing modalities which create more toxins and you can see why some of us get really sick on abx or herbs/supplements that kill bugs.
My understanding is that those of us who can't get rid of the toxins will never get well unless we use some means of binding and removing the biotoxins because the toxins will continue to circulate in our systems giving us the symptoms of lyme.
It makes sense that those who continue to use abx and can't get rid of the toxins will get sicker and sicker and may become very sensitive to abx or other bug killing medicines unless they do something to clear out the toxins that their body is unable to clear.
Some people who have been sick a long time and can't get rid of the toxins are probably the sickest because they have a large buildup of toxins in their system already and then adding abx or herbs that kill bugs adds a continuous supply of more toxins when the system is already overflowing with toxins.
I'm not a doctor but this is my understanding from reading various materials and talking to my doctors.
Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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hardynaka
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8099
posted
I think that cleansing has two sides: one is organ modulation/ balance and the other is cleansing itself.
If an organ is stuck for some reason or another, even with the right cleansers, our body can't detox and we suffer.
If all organs are working properly, they still sometimes can't detox when we get overloaded with things like metals, for example, or excess of neurotoxins with lots of die off. Then we still need cleansers.
That's how I see the cleansing "business". Without cleaning and balancing organs, I can't see how to improve smoothly and steadily from this awful disease.
My protocols are always more charged with cleansers than with killers.
I believe animals and men were done to clean naturally, but only when confronted with natural toxins, not with thousands of new man made toxins, chemicals, plastics, heavy metals (that were not supposed to be so free in nature if not by human intervention).
Selma
Posts: 1086 | From Switzerland | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
If you still have Lyme, or some other illness, then detoxing won't get you better until you get rid of the offending agent.(e.g.--I worked in sick mold building, and my body didn't detox the offending agent on it's own--if it did, I would have never gotten sick). The same concept applies to Lyme, in a theoretical sense.
I guess, over all, it's good to detox, and our body doesn't detox everything we put in it, on it's own... if so, then we could eat all the poisons we wanted.
In your situation, I would see how it would be tiring to be on constant alert to detox. I say for mental sanity, maybe taking a break wouldn't hurt.
And according to Mold Warriors, depending on genetic make-up, some people detox certain toxins(mold toxins, Lyme toxins) better than others.
All in all, I hope you feel better.
-------------------- Never walk through a cornfield backwards.
sparkle7
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10397
posted
Hi all!
It's hard to do all the research & trial & error for detoxing. I do think simpler is better. It's an important step but it's just part of the treatment - not a cure all. I don't think just by detoxing you can cure Lyme. It's an ongoing process. I've never been into the idea of extreme measures for detoxing. It never seemed to help me much.
I think the chlorella works pretty well for absorbing some of the excess neurotoxins from the antibiotic die-off. I tried Welchol & I didn't like it. It was too much to think about with the dosages & taking it 2 hours away from all the other drugs & supplements I take. It didn't seem as effective as the chlorella & kind of clogged me up a bit. I think they say you're supposed to take some psylium or equivelent while taking the Welchol, too. It's was just too much for me.
I do like the foot pads, too. I think they are helpful. I use a brand called AcuPeds. I haven't tried the Kenrico brand (HealthMarvels) but I think the Acupeds are better because they contain more herbal ingredients.
Here's the ingredients for the AcuPeds - Organic Agaricus mushrooms (high in Beta Glucans), tourmaline, Saururus Chenesis, Achyranthis Radix, Artemisia lwayomogi, Paeoniae Rubrae Radix, Caragana sinica, Siberian Ginseng, Platicodon Grandifloum, Mokcho Powder, Pearl Stone, Mugwort extract, Loquat (Japanese medlar) extract, and wood vinegar from mature trees.
Here's the ingredients of the HealthMarvel Gold Edition TRMX-2 - Wood Vinegar extract, Bamboo Vinegar extract, Chitin and Chitosan, Loquat Leaf, Dokudami, Vitamin C, Vegetable Fiber, Tourmaline, Dextrin.
I don't sell any of these products. The AcuPeds are more expensive but they may be better. There are many brands of these things but it seems to me that the HealthMarvel brand (Kenrico) has a huge multi-level marketing surge so there may be more of a "push" for that brand as opposed to other brands that may have more herbs & could be better products. It may be helpful to compare the products out there to find the best one.
Good luck & feel better!
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
I think detoxing is especially important in the earlier phases of treatment when the bacteria load is at its highest.
When the bacteria load is high, the toxin load resulting from antibiotic therapy is probably immense and potentially overwhelming to our organs, so detoxing is essential to help our organs clear up so they can keep doing what they do.
Posts: 975 | From California | Registered: Apr 2007
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lymeHerx001
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6215
posted
Drinking bentonite now.
Experiencing TERRIBLE herxes from low dose nystatin. Very low dose.
I take it and then I cant move and I get very upset/depressed and my muscles twitch.
I then wake up 6 hours later.
Very Very bad. If its not toxins then what else can it be? Toxins>??
Posts: 2905 | From New England | Registered: Sep 2004
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CaliforniaLyme
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 7136
posted
I've never done any kind of detoxing (other than detoxing from drugs & alcohol 17 years ago) and I have done great.
I think it really seems to help some people though!!! Can't hurt (hopefully*)!!!
-------------------- There is no wealth but life. -John Ruskin
All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer Posts: 5639 | From Aptos CA USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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JimBoB
Unregistered
posted
Cal, it is great you have detoxed from the chemicals.
NOW IF you have Lyme and/or co-infections, you will need to HELP your system to detox of them, and like has been said the heavy metals that are so detrimental to our health even IF we don't have Lyme, etc..
We ALL have garbage in our systems that was never intended to be there. IT is IMPOSSIBLE NOT to have it, this day in age. Like Scot said IF we breathe we WILL have it. Try and stop breatheing for a year and a half or so.
I find that herxes for the most part are unnecessary for most of us. We need to HELP our systems to clean out the die-off and get back on the road to health.
We all have Lymph systems, and that is what rids our bodies of the poisons we get from breathing, eating, drinking, having electricity, gas, and all the other "good things" this system is made of, around us.
I certainly would not want to be without the body cleansers that Buhner recommends, such as Red Root tincture, and Sarsaparilla, and also the Milk Thistle. IF I were forced to take abx again, I would want the Acidophilus also.
Most people don't realize that the LIVER is PART of our Lymph system. Red Root is the caretaker of it all. A few cannot take Red Root because of taking blood coagulants or anti-coagulants, or maybe pregnant. Just about everyone else can take it, with positive relults.
The cleansers are much more imoportant than the killers to me.
They do not cost much either, IF you process your own from bulk. Not that tough to do either. If I can do it, so can you. You just have to NOT be lazy about it. It is called survival.
I have wanted to die a few times, but for the most part, most days, I am glad I didn't.
posted
I think if you are really sick, gentle detoxing is best-lots of water with lemon,detox baths and trying to sweat. The body rids itself of toxins thru the liver, skin and kidneys. If these are weak, and you push them too hard, you can end up feeling sicker.
Posts: 561 | From eastcoast | Registered: Aug 2006
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JimBoB
Unregistered
posted
quote:Originally posted by shoney: I think if you are really sick, gentle detoxing is best-lots of water with lemon,detox baths and trying to sweat. The body rids itself of toxins thru the liver, skin and kidneys. If these are weak, and you push them too hard, you can end up feeling sicker.
##
You are right, you don't want to push them, and THAT is exactly what you are doing IF you don't cleanse them.
IF your Lymph system is weak, you NEED to give it help. Espcially then. Otherwise you WILL feel sicker. Especially if you are on abx. Herbs are more gentle, but for some, they too can herx bad on them. However, IF you use Milk THistle and Red Root tincture, you will feel much better, and maybe won't herx at all. Jim
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5dana8
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7935
posted
sorry to back peddle a bit... Carol do you have to take the undenatured whey on an empty stomach?
I actually bought the product on your link but haven't got the nerve up to try it because it suggests to take it on an empty stomach. I am such a chicken
-------------------- 5dana8 Posts: 4432 | From some where over the rainbow | Registered: Sep 2005
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