oxygenbabe
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5831
posted
Stephen Buhner is the author, chelseagreen the publisher/distributor.
It's very interesting. I see that andrographis and other herbs he recommends are also recommended on one website about TCM and spirochetes/lyme.
He says a naturopath in Connecticut will start trying the protocol on some of her patients. Right now its rather new so who knows how effective it will be, in how many patients.
I find andrographis interesting because it is antispirochetal, antimalarial and antifilarial. So, that would at least inhibit most of the bugs you can get in a tickbite.
He also recommends japanese knotweed. I have to read the book again, to recall why. The other herbs are more familiar to most of us, including cat's claw (which I don't like, makes me jittery) and artemisinin (a good one for babesia, as most people already know). And lots of other immune supporting herbs.
Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004
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tabbytamer
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posted
Someone was telling me it cost them $300 for the first month's worth of herbs.
That's way out of my league.
But I would be interested if someone here knows of a way to do it cheaper.
------------------ Tabby
Posts: 2098 | From San Diego, CA, USA | Registered: Sep 2002
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livinlyme
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Member # 3773
posted
I'm bring this post back to the top.
My thoughts on this are the same as before I found out I had Lyme disease. I can't afford to be sick.. except one thing has changed:
I used to say it because I could not take off work..
now I say it because I am no longer able to work and I can not afford the treatment! either way I cant seem to win here...
I'm sure most everyone on this board can relate... if not in one area the other one.. Linda D
-------------------- "Hatred paralyzes life; love releases it. Hatred confuses life; love harmonizes it. Hatred darkens life; love illuminates it." Posts: 1389 | From who knows, who cares, but somewhere over the rainbow | Registered: Mar 2003
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Carol in PA
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posted
tabbytamer: You said, "Someone was telling me it cost them $300 for the first month's worth of herbs."
That was probably someone who was doing Dr. Zhang's protocol. He used to have a very knowledgeable website explaining his Traditional Chinese Medicine protocols for Lyme and hepatitis.
Buying his brand of suggested herbs for the protocol did cost about $300 per month. (Then you got a big discount on the third month's supply.)
I think you really need to do a lot of reading and studying to learn about what you plan to take. When you pay to see a doctor, you are paying for his considerable learning and experience. When you do it yourself, it's easy to mess up.
Hiker, I have that book saved on my shopping cart at Amazon.com. For when I decide to get it.
Did you see new information in it? Or is it a rehash of the stuff that's available online?
How does it compare to the herbal info in Bryan's book about Rife?
Carol
Posts: 6947 | From Lancaster, PA | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
I think this is a great book, if only just for deepened understanding of the disease organisms..
I haven't tried the herbs..but this book was impressive. Definately not redundant of previous info, a new and deeper look. Ir has helped me follow what I am doing allot better whether I try some of the herbs or not.
IMO, patients AND LLMD's would benefit from reading this one.
Mo
Posts: 8337 | From the other shore | Registered: Jul 2002
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search under andrographitis there are three choices I was told to take the one with 200 pills for $6.12.. and to take 6-8 pills 3x a day..
-------------------- ~Things may happen in my life time to change who I am but I refuse to let them reduce me...~ Posts: 968 | From private | Registered: Jan 2005
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ConnieMc
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
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posted
quote:Originally posted by tabbytamer: Someone was telling me it cost them $300 for the first month's worth of herbs.
That's way out of my league.
But I would be interested if someone here knows of a way to do it cheaper.
I found the supplements in the protocol quite cheap. I am starting it soon. I found the book very interesting as well, and makes a great deal of sense. We sould have a separate heading where we can all go to discuss how we do on this.
Posts: 2276 | From NC | Registered: Oct 2000
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lightfoot
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 2536
posted
I've been reading the book too and have ordered some of the herbs....there is definatley a lot of new material in this book.
Very well written and loaded with impo0rtant info on Lyme. It is laid out so well, great for Lyme brain!!
I'll be starting soon....
Yes....let's be sure to share our experineces on the protocols.
Healing smiles....lightfoot
-------------------- Healing Smiles.....lightfoot Posts: 7228 | From CO | Registered: May 2002
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posted
hi hiker - i've been doing this protocol for about six weeks now - am also on a gluten free diet and antibiotics (plaquenil, biaxin, and flagyl pulses) is it helping? too soon to tell.... i've taken tons of cat's claw before (toa free) it was expensive and did nothing - raintree cat's claw is cheap and really helps clean out your gut.... also be sure to get the capsules of andrographis as the tablets are very bitter... i get stephandra from plum tree (as buhner suggests) i just put a half tsp into some herbal tea - tasteless.. deb
Posts: 122 | From richmond, ca, usa | Registered: Feb 2004
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AliG
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Member # 9734
posted
updates anyone?
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
-
I got the book a couple months ago, but have not had the concentration to read it through.
Here and there, what I've seen, I am very impressed.
I do not have the endurance right now to figure out where to get it all if I can't do it all in one phone call, though.
I am treating this new year like a grad program. This book is for my January "course" -
disturbedme
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Member # 12346
posted
I like this book. Had lots of good information in it.
Also started taking Andrographis because of what I read about it in the book. Andrographis has made me herx -- and still am. Not fun. I'm also taking Cat's Claw.
Don't like how terrible Andrographis is making me feel and am asking my LLMD about it at today's visit.
-------------------- One can never consent to creep when one feels an impulse to soar. ~ Helen Keller
My Lyme Story Posts: 2965 | From Land of Confusion (bitten in KS, moved to PA, now living in MD) | Registered: Jun 2007
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MariaA
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9128
posted
This thread is several years old now, but several people on Lymenet have done well with the protocol and others have not. Check out the (also outdated now) herbal links thread in my signature for more info about user experiences.
-------------------- Symptom Free!!! Thank you all!!!!
Cass A
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Member # 11134
posted
I read the book, got the herbs, and was on the protocol for many months.
However, apparently the andrographis was too much for my Lyme brain, and I went unconscious twice for over half an hour and had to be hospitalized each time for 24 hours or more.
So, if you do it, my advice is to go slow and really watch your symptoms.
Love,
Cass A
Posts: 1245 | From Thousand Oaks, CA | Registered: Feb 2007
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AliG
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9734
posted
quote:Originally posted by Keebler: -
I got the book a couple months ago, but have not had the concentration to read it through.
Here and there, what I've seen, I am very impressed.
I do not have the endurance right now to figure out where to get it all if I can't do it all in one phone call, though.
I am treating this new year like a grad program. This book is for my January "course" -
-
That's funny Keebler. That's EXACTLY what I've been going through, with this for the past month!
It seems there is SO MUCH information on each of the herbs, that I haven't been easily able to assimilate it all into a thorough yet. With all the distractions from the holidays, I just haven't been able to stick with it. I feel the need to understand all of the specifics & interplay of the herbs/ABX first.
I've also been skipping around because it ALL interests me. I don't think the skipping around is really helping me. A lot of the info on the actual disease, I had read before through my own research. Reading this book would have been SO helpful to me early on.
I think it would also be great for someone who might not have Lyme, but would like to have an understanding of it. They could read the forward through the first couple of chapters and get a REALLY good idea of what we're dealing with.
I notice that he states that the core protocol can be used in conjunction with ABX. The expanded protocol would be used to adjust a non-ABX regimen to suit the sx picture.
I also notice that he recommends the standardized form of andrographis, because of (among other things) the organism's deleterious effects on the CNS.
I'm wondering if those who had frightening occurances with andrographis were using the standardized herb. ???
Smilax binds endotoxins in the blood. Were those who've had bad reactions taking Smilax along with the andrographis?
I also read that Cat's Claw raises the CD57 counts. That could be useful information if one is taking it & being tested for the CD57 counts. My Dr. just ordered that test, better hold off on Cat's Claw until I find out the initial results.
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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hardynaka
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Member # 8099
posted
Andro is the strongest herb of all from core protocol. Many people get awful herxes on it (incluing myself). I was also sent to ER once, unable to breathe in a herx. Since then, I'm extra careful with andrographis.
andro is the last herb to be added (in my opinion). Never use andro as first herb from core protocol. when you add andro, just get 1/4 of a pill (standardized) to start, then slowly increase. Never forget detoxifiers.
My maximum dose of andro was 4 pills a day (standardized). I believe now I can use any type of andro (standardized or not), because I do muscle tests and check the amount I need. But anyway, I could never accept lots of it and improved anyway.
The reason for standardization is because of the amount of andrographolides (the main lyme killer in the herb). I have now powdered andro at home. But keep a bottle of standardized andro just in case my daughter gets bitten again. As it's bitter, I'd rather give the minimum amounts to her and the standardized formula would garantee a minimum amount of andrographolides. For me, I keep the whole herb in powder in case I need it again one day.
Selma
Posts: 1086 | From Switzerland | Registered: Oct 2005
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AliG
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Member # 9734
posted
Wow, THANKS Selma!
I would have gone about it all wrong. I have the andro & the cat's claw & am waiting for the others to come in.
I have some Japanese Knotweed in an herbal formula but I don't know exactly how much & there's lots of other stuff in it, so I don't know if that's a good bet.
The andro I got is in "Kold Kare" by Kare~N~Herbs (never heard of them before but that's all he had). It's 300 mg/tablet, standardized to 4% so I thought maybe it might be mild enough to start with & then move up to the higher standardization & dosages he recommends.
Does that sound relatively safe or do you think I should split them? I know he recommends a higher standardization - 8%? I think. I think the rec. mgs were higher too, if I'm not mistaken.
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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hardynaka
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8099
posted
Alig! Andro standardardized is 10% andrographolides, if my memory is good (what B recommends).
I had an allergic reaction to Knotweed in the formula he recommends (I think it was Planetary forumula or something like that), because of fillers. I heard of more people getting allergic reaction to fillers.
So I HAD to change to whole herb and do decoctions (red tea!). You should cook the bark for at least 20 minutes, if my memory is good (there are instructions in the book, I think).
I just put 2-3 small pieces of bark inside 2-3 cups of water and boiled then simmered it with a lid. It was already strong for me (as I reacted with mild allergy even to the pure plant).
I build the amount up slowly during the months. But my maximum were a few more pieces of bark (one pound of the herb lasted centuries for me!!). I still got a few pieces here. But most people don't react with allergy to the pure herb. If I had the powder, I would do like you, encapsulate it. But as I had bought the bark, I did decoctions.
I wouldn't start with mixed formulas because if you get a reaction, you'll never know from what.
As for the andro, cut the tablet in two or smaller and try. I would start very slow. You'll feel the effect very fast if taken on empty stomach. At least, I felt it (like with knotweed, it's a matter of minutes after ingestion).
I would take andro only once a day to start, work on cleansers, then go up very slowly. And start with half a tablet or smaller. Then slowly increase to twice a day, but in my opinion, never more than 3 times a day. My maximum dose of andro was 4 pills a day, never more (I once reached level 2 of buhner protocol, meaning 6 pills a day and that's when I was sent to the ER).
If you feel toxins are building up, back off and add cleansers (chlorella, MSM, enzymes, trace minerals, chitosan, whatever you find useful for you). That's what I would have done if I had to re-start the protocol again.
I feel that if I add too much of a substance (more than what my body can process), I can get allergic to it. And losing any of Buhner's herbs because we overdid them is a bad idea because they are really useful. Just my opinion!!
Selma
Posts: 1086 | From Switzerland | Registered: Oct 2005
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