Christer Larsson1, a, Jenny Lundqvist1, a and Sven Bergstr�m
aDepartment of Molecular Biology, Laboratory for Molecular Infection Medicine Sweden (MIMS), Ume� University, SE-901 87 Ume�, Sweden
Received 22 August 2007; revised 7 November 2007; accepted 9 November 2007. Available online 19 November 2007.
Abstract
Like several other spirochetes, relapsing fever Borrelia can cause persistent infection of the central nervous system (CNS).
By treating mice harboring residual previous Borrelia duttonii brain infection with the bacteriocidal, cell wall inhibiting antibiotic ceftriaxone, bacteria were cleared from the brain.
This shows that the residual infection is not latent but actively growing.
Microbial Pathogenesis Volume 44, Issue 3, March 2008, Pages 262-264
[ 19. February 2008, 01:11 PM: Message edited by: AliG ]
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
| IP: Logged |
adamm
Unregistered
posted
Meaning we're never going to get back to 100 % mentally and
AliG
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9734
posted
I think it means that it may need to be continually treated.
IMO, It definitely means that IDSA is wrong with their two-week Doxy theory and "post-lyme syndrome" theory.
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
| IP: Logged |
adamm
Unregistered
posted
Well, the good news, for those
of us with Relapsing Fever, is that they cured the mice.
IP: Logged |
posted
I haven't read the article yet, but I'll offer another opinion anyway based on what is posted here so far.
Once the acute infection is cleared with traditional treatments, we are left with a chronic infection with CWD bacteria. These pathogens are even more persistent & the inflammation & immune system disruption they cause is really what defines post-treatment Lyme Disease.
PS. Also be careful drawing too many conclusions from mice studies. We're not mice.
Posts: 246 | From Grass Valley, CA | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged |
Tincup
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5829
posted
Put that with this... and see what you've got.
CWD Borrelia may convert to others forms and back as they please; thus, chances are that at all times all three forms of the bacterium is present in the host.
I'm not so sure that's true in the presence of antibiotics, but what's your point?
Posts: 246 | From Grass Valley, CA | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged |
adamm
Unregistered
posted
Well, isn't impossible to target the bacteria with cell walls
and those without simultaneously? This is what I've gathered
from the stuff I've read...
Please don't interpret this
as a personal attack at all (I'm not sure if you even were--these
things are sometimes impossible to determine online). I'm just
trying to better understand your advice.
IP: Logged |
AliG
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9734
posted
Oh TC THAT was just plain CRUEL!
This was another study I posted earlier on relapsing fever that's kind of scary:
Persistent brain infection and disease reactivation in relapsing fever borreliosis
Christer Larssona, Marie Anderssona, Jenni Pelkonenb, Betty P. Guoa, Annika Nordstranda and Sven Bergstr�ma,
aDepartment of Molecular Biology, Ume� University, SE-901 87 Ume�, Sweden bDepartment of Medical Microbiology, Turku University, Turku, Finland
Received 19 January 2006; revised 20 April 2006. Available online 30 May 2006.
Abstract
Relapsing fever, an infection caused by Borrelia spirochetes, is generally considered a transient, self-limiting disease in humans.
The present study reveals that murine infection by Borrelia duttonii can be reactivated after an extended time as a silent infection in the brain, with no bacteria appearing in the blood and spirochete load comparable to the numbers in an infected tick.
The host cerebral gene expression pattern is indistinguishable from that of uninfected animals, indicating that persistent bacteria are not recognized by the immune system nor cause noticeable tissue damage.
Silent infection can be reactivated by immunosuppression, inducing spirochetemia comparable to that of initial densities. B. duttonii has never been found in any host except man and the tick vector.
We therefore propose the brain to be a possible natural reservoir of the spirochete.
The view of relapsing fever as an acute disease should be extended to include in some cases prolonged persistence, a feature characteristic of the related spirochetal infections Lyme disease and syphilis.
Microbes and Infection Volume 8, Issue 8, July 2006, Pages 2213-2219
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by adamm: Well, isn't impossible to target the bacteria with cell walls and those without simultaneously? This is what I've gathered from the stuff I've read...
Please don't interpret this as a personal attack at all (I'm not sure if you even were--these things are sometimes impossible to determine online). I'm just trying to better understand your advice.
Did you mean "it possible" or "impossible?"
It might be possible to treat both types with MP, but in my opinion acute & chronic infections are probably best treated differently. In other words, if I contracted an obvious acute infection while on MP, for example, I wouldn't wait long before using traditional treatment. In fact, they don't recommend otherwise. In addition, CWD bacteria seem to respond best to bacteriostatic antibiotics pulsed in low doses.
PS. Don't worry about my feelings online - I'm thick-skinned & no longer mentally handicapped by Lyme. I do think "Lyme rage" is a real issue on these forums though. It's often called neuro-borreliosis for a reason.
Posts: 246 | From Grass Valley, CA | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged |
oxygenbabe
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5831
posted
Not the case with borrelia. New studies in rhesus monkeys (as well as mice)replicate the dog studies. You get an acute infection, treat it immediately with 30 days of abx, and it doesn't kill the spirochetes. On autopsy, tissues have live spirochetes.
CWD is meaningless in this context (borrelia type infections) of acute or chronic
Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004
| IP: Logged |
adamm
Unregistered
posted
Oxygenbabe--
Do you think you might be able to post those studies?
Do 100% of the monkeys have keets upon autopsy?
IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by oxygenbabe: Not the case with borrelia. New studies in rhesus monkeys (as well as mice)replicate the dog studies. You get an acute infection, treat it immediately with 30 days of abx, and it doesn't kill the spirochetes. On autopsy, tissues have live spirochetes.
CWD is meaningless in this context (borrelia type infections) of acute or chronic
So the dogs continued to receive antibiotics after death? I don't get it.
Posts: 246 | From Grass Valley, CA | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Momfromtexas: B & R what are MP and CWD in your post?
MP = Marshall Protocol (marshallprotocol.com or curemyth1.org).
CWD = cell-wall-deficient as in CWD bacteria. Also known as L-forms, pleomorphisms, cysts, coccoids, blebs, & probably other names. Basically a general term for the special forms of bacteria implicated in chronic disease.
Posts: 246 | From Grass Valley, CA | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged |
oxygenbabe
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5831
posted
I was told this by a colleague so they are probably going to be published soon.
BRH: Experiments had been done in dogs, and now replicated in mice and rhesus monkeys--the latter being very close to us in all ways and a very good model for disease.
Inoculate them with borrelia and instantly treat for 30 days. Then kill them and autopsy to see if the tissues are clear of spirochetes--active spirochetes.
They never are clear. Even with immediate treatment.
You can't run that experiment on people--you can't "sacrifice" them and autopsy them to see how their tissues are doing. Usually its done on mice. That it has now been done on rhesus monkeys renders it pretty definitive.
Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
I wish they would treat the animals longer and with abx that target all forms of Bb and then autopsy them to see what's left.....and
I have a few people who I would recommend for those human studies that could take our knowledge to the next level...maybe the IDSA guideline authors would volunteer to really try to prove us wrong...... I can dream, can't I?
Posts: 554 | From Naples, Italy | Registered: Jun 2006
| IP: Logged |
adamm
Unregistered
posted
Oxygenbaba, could this possibly be because they are not
The Lyme Disease Network is a non-profit organization funded by individual donations. If you would like to support the Network and the LymeNet system of Web services, please send your donations to:
The
Lyme Disease Network of New Jersey 907 Pebble Creek Court,
Pennington,
NJ08534USA http://www.lymenet.org/
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
![[confused]](graemlins/confused.gif)
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[shake]](graemlins/shake.gif)
THAT was just plain CRUEL! ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
![[kiss]](graemlins/kissing.gif)
I can dream, can't I?
Printer-friendly view of this topic