posted
I'm thinking that I might need to voluntarily commit myself to one of the local psych wards. I'm borderline suicidal and have been cutting, despite a "no harm" contract with my psychiatrist.
Curious though, will they allow me to have my Lyme meds inside?
Thanks, AnnaL
Posts: 398 | From By the Salish Sea | Registered: Dec 2008
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poppy
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Probably not.
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Dekrator48
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posted
Praying for you, AnnaL.
God loves you so much.
He wants only good things for you.
I pray that you get all the help you need real soon.
Please do not harm yourself.
Here is the suicide hotline # 1-800-273-TALK.
This online music station is so uplifitng and encouraging... I hope you will tune in to it and be encouraged...
If you click on the link, then scroll over "Music Room", then you can click on "Listen Online".
-------------------- The fibromyalgia I've had for 32 years was an undiagnosed Lyme symptom.
"For I know the plans I have for you", declares the Lord, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future". -Jeremiah 29:11 Posts: 6076 | From Pennsylvania, USA | Registered: Nov 2008
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posted
Praying that god will make a way and that the chains be broken. That your life will be healed in Jesus' name! Amen
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Keebler
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- Even if you check in voluntarily, you can't check out on your own.
I am hoping this will be a better idea:
Have trusted friends or family to come and be with you until you are feeling better - and working with outpatient care.
In hospital can keep you safe but that's that extent of it. And there may be other ways to do that where you can maintain more control over you body and your life.
No meds - other than what THEY prescribe for you (or agree to) - will be allowed. They will not agree to the kinds of medicines taken by those with lyme.
And they may give you new ones, too.
Special diets are also not honored, even gluten-free
in case you are gluten-free: (and, for me, gluten can make me suicidal, as can food additives that are in hospital foods -- so if you do go, see if some friends or relatives can help to bring you foods that are good for you - this can really matter).
I wish you the best in your decision. I hope you can find other arrangements that will both help you stay safe but also allow you the control you need.
Think of what you NEED to facilitate changes in how you are feeling, what you are doing? I hope you can find the support for that in ways that will work for you.
I admire your courage and honesty. Take care. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
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- MAGNESIUM & FISH OIL are two things that really help pull me out of a deep dark place.
My bet is that there are people in your life who would really want to come over and be with you - however that would work for you. You can say you need to be quiet and not too active -- or you may want to do things with a friend or relative.
This is about what you need to stay safe and there are lots of ways to be certain that happens.
If the hospital is the only choice, do what you need to do.
About lyme meds - a break from those may not be so bad for a short term. However, your LLMD could best guide you and should be in the loop.
If your liver is overwhelmed with treatment, that can cause suicididal feelings, too. Your treatment protocol or support plan may need some adjustments.
I would hope you have good liver support as that helps so much with the psychiatric part of all this. LIVER SUPPORT is absolutely also MOOD SUPPORT.
A "Herxheimber reaction" to treatment - when the liver and kidneys are overwhelmed - can cause all kinds of physical, emotional and psychological reactions. The toxic load is what can clobber us. Liver support helps our body better manage that.
I would hope you've been on liver support all along but, just in case not, the "HERX" links here may be of help:
Special attention might be paid to the possiblity of PORPHYRIA - or "secondary" porphyria as that can also cause suicidal impulse, big time. I know that from experience.
I know this is a lot to take in feeling low as you do - but attention to porphyria could be the ticket. It was in my case.
LIVER & KIDNEY SUPPORT & and several HERXHEIMER support links, too. -
[ 03-29-2013, 01:59 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
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lax mom
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posted
Anna your safety comes first...especially if you are already hurting yourself and are borderline suicidal.
I wouldn't worry about my Lyme meds for the timebeing. Most likely they will discharge you as fast as they can anyway...most of the time it's way before the patient is ready.
You can check yourself out as long as you are not a threat to yourself or others.
Why do we have to call it a psych ward? That sounds terrible.
lpkayak
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posted
so sad we are reduced to this...i would not know how to give advice on this except if there is any way you could be hooked up with an advocate you trust before you go...that might be very impt
-------------------- Lyme? Its complicated. Educate yourself. Posts: 13712 | From new england | Registered: Feb 2004
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Tammy N.
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Anna dear, I am so sorry to hear of your struggles. Sending prayers for strength and comfort your way. God bless you. Posts: 2238 | From East Coast | Registered: Jul 2010
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Sammi
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I am sorry you are dealing with this. Have you called your psychiatrist? I agree that what is most important is your safety.
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I've been severely depressed for about 1.5 years. I went from being happy though sick, to WTF when my husband announced that I was a monster who hated children and so it was all my fault that he isn't a father. Mind now, this isn't true. Years ago he said he didn't want kids. (Nor do I hate children.)
This opened the floodgates of every little thing about me that annoyed him. Basically a year or so of emotional battering (which he won't admit to). And according to him it's all my fault because I'm sick.
I finally grew a tiny backbone and stood up for myself. Life still sucked but I no longer believed his narrative that I was the crazy lazy stupid monstrous one.
We entered couples counseling.
After a private session with our. Couples therapist, he announced he wants a divorce because my sick body can't give him the baby he wants.
Mind, he works at a major tech company and makes all the money in the house. I'm on his health insurance. Etc etc.
I've been seeing my fabulous psych for a long time, so she knows all. It was she who suggested in-patient care as an option when I saw her yesterday.
I have no friends in my city. My family is unreliable and a couple thousand miles away. I have nowhere safe to go, other than locking myself in my room with no sharp objects.
I don't like the idea of checking myself in, biut it's better than being forced in.
So that's my story. I don't believe in an invisible superhero in the sky, so please lay off with the Jesus stuff. I know you mean well. But I need to stay grounded in this world, dealing with my s**t here.
My psych is a great advocate. I just needed to know if I could bring my Big Bag Of Pills (both Rx and herbal etc) if I went in voluntarily.
Does anyone have any experience with this?
[ 03-30-2013, 10:05 PM: Message edited by: AnnaL ]
Posts: 398 | From By the Salish Sea | Registered: Dec 2008
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posted
Hmm and grounded you are and need to continue to be to fight battles at many different fronts... would your LLMD be able to help? I'm sure they have much more experience with this. Honestly, as resistant as these yo-yo's are where I live if I went to hospital I think they would continue my treatment (at least the IV's) because it is being overseen by a local doc..
Oh and so glad you have a wonderful psychiatrist! I hope someone else can suggest things for you..xo
Posts: 394 | From Southeast | Registered: Oct 2012
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You are very brave with all you have dealt with. The in-patient option should be used if you feel in danger. Supplements and dietary changes aren't enough.
I would first ask your psychiatrist about the lyme medications. If she didn't know, you can try calling the in-patient hospital or program itself. Since it would be a voluntary admission, there's no reason your questions can't be answered.
However, I wouldn't worry that much about the lyme meds. MANY people take breaks - for vacations, due to yeast or high liver enzymes, changing protocols, etc...
I wish you luck. Emotional health is more valuable than anything.
posted
It depends on where you are going. Many will not allow outside meds- but may make exceptions with the help of your psychiatrist and LLMD.
Since your psychiatrist recommended this, ask her to contact hospitals in your area for you to find out if there is one that will allow your meds.
Contact your LLMD and ask that they advocate for you while you are inpatient- as far as providing medical records, etc to verify your need of medications and lyme treatment.
Because you are self-harming and suicidal they will hold you 48-72 hours mandatory once you sign in. You will not have the option to leave if you are suicidal. Not trying to scare you- I didn't know that before I signed myself in voluntarily several years back- so just want to make sure you are aware that they will hold you.
So, just make sure the hospital you plan to go to meets your needs beforehand.
Good luck. I'm very sorry for all you're going through.
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beaches
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Hi Anna,
So sorry you are dealing with all of this. And so sorry to hear of the heartbreak you�ve experienced with your husband. I think you must be a very brave and resilient person to weigh all the options re: checking yourself in to a psych ward for cutting and suicidal thoughts. Despite that action and those thoughts, you are going about this very logically, so kudos to you.
I personally am of the opinion that when someone is cutting and/or feeling suicidal the BEST place for him/her is in the hospital as an inpatient.
The fact that you have a great psychiatrist is so very helpful. Can you check yourself into a hospital where he/she has privileges?
I am not familiar with the �check in� process to a psych ward. I do know that when �checking in� to the ER, during the intake process they ask you to list all your current meds. Not once in the ER have I ever been asked why I take certain meds or supplements. I always bring my meds/supps to the ER. I have found that if they themselves can �check them out� they will �allow� me to continue taking them, but again I don�t know how that would work in a psych ward.
So you might not even have to mention LD when telling them what you take. Of course, if you�re on several antibiotics someone will certainly ask but if you�re only on one, I guarantee no one will question that. But as others have stated, you can certainly take a break from your Lyme meds, especially if you need to be in a safer place than you are now.
You are doing yourself a favor by checking yourself into a hospital when you are having suicidal thoughts. Your personal safety and mental health are priority one.
You are very brave by posting here. I wish you all the best.
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lax mom
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No you can't bring your own meds from home. It's a hospital. Good luck.
posted
I think the risks outweigh the benefits. Thanks for all the advice.
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beaches
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What do you mean?
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lax mom
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I meant, it's a hospital they provide your meds. Maybe you could bring in the RX bottles and tell them you are on them for some infection...maybe they will continue them?
What? the risks of hospitalization outweigh the benefits of saving your life?
I wish you good luck. Suicidal thoughts are not something to take lightly. I had a dear friend succeed. Cutting can also accidentally lead to the same "destination".
posted
I plan to see what my outside shrink will do. Maybe ask about ECT.
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beaches
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What is ECT?
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lax mom
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Oh Anna...Electro shock therapy.
If I had to choose inpatient to keep me safe and ECT...hands down, I would run to the nearest ER, go inpatient, get myself together and get stronger.
It's not horrible. It's not "One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest".
In the past, I have been in both inpatient and outpatient partial hospitalization at a private mental health hospital due to MASSIVE, HORRIFIC anxiety and depression.
It is NOT scary. You see a psychiatrist daily (if inpatient). You then have skills groups to process your feelings and learn better coping skills...NO BIG DEAL...very helpful.
It took my aunt a year to fully recover from ECT. Unless you are an incurable case of depression where there is no hope, ECT is not the answer.
It sounds to me like your situation is worse due to external factors, not that you are intrinsically wanting to die...you just want the pain to stop.
lax mom
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posted
Also, if you are cutting, DBT (Dialectal Behavioral Therapy) would be ideal because you will learn distress tolerance skills and emotion regulation skills that will help you cope in a healthy way.
posted
Update is that I'm staying put for now.
Posts: 398 | From By the Salish Sea | Registered: Dec 2008
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beaches
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OK good to know!
I don't know if you are religious or not but I'll say a prayer for you tonight. It is Good Friday in my religion.
I just have to tell you that I am very impressed that you were able to put yourself out there and ask for help on this forum. I imagine that must have been very difficult for you.
Please keep us posted. I wish you all the best.
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Judie
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"I just needed to know if I could bring my Big Bag Of Pills (both Rx and herbal etc) if I went in voluntarily.
Does anyone have any experience with this? "
They will look at your prescriptions and then give you the equivalent from "their" pharmacy.
They don't want anyone smuggling anything into the place (not saying you'll do that). You can't even have your own mouth wash because some contain alcohol.
They will not let you take your own supplements but may give you an equivalent of their own, like if they see you have a bunch of vitamins they might give your "their own" multivitamin (one pill) that's it. They won't understand multiple supplements.
You give up a lot of control in these places. You will have little say in your food choices either.
Posts: 2839 | From California | Registered: Jul 2012
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Dogsandcats
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Sorry you are going thru this.
Hugs.
-------------------- God will prepare everything for our perfect happiness in heaven, and if it takes my dog being there, I believe he'll be there.
Billy Graham Posts: 1967 | From California | Registered: Oct 2010
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Judie
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Also, despite the negatives of checking yourself in, on the plus side you "get away" from what's been giving you anxiety so you can stabilize.
I'm assuming that the cutting may be anxiety (or other painful emotion) related. The cutting is helping you emotionally check out because stuff is too painful.
At the ward they'll have meds that will make anti-depressants/anti-psychotics and such work faster.
That being said, you will want to investigate whatever place you check yourself into prior to going there if you can. Some places are nicer than others.
Since you have insurance, there may be a good hospital to go to in your area. Also, it may not be a long visit. Since you already have a psychiatrist, you may be there less than a week and then they'll hook you up with a day program and other resources.
I'd also look for support groups for people with chronic illness in your area. Just connecting to others will help.
There are also some call-in groups if you can't leave your house.
You might also want to read and/or learn Non-violent/compassionate communicate by Marshall Rosenberg. It'll help you with self connection and getting your needs met in a way where you're less likely to hurt yourself.
Posts: 2839 | From California | Registered: Jul 2012
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Razzle
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Anna,
I just sent you a PM.
Take care,
-------------------- -Razzle Lyme IgM IGeneX Pos. 18+++, 23-25+, 30++, 31+, 34++, 39 IND, 83-93 IND; IgG IGeneX Neg. 30+, 39 IND; Mayo/CDC Pos. IgM 23+, 39+; IgG Mayo/CDC Neg. band 41+; Bart. (clinical dx; Fry Labs neg. for all coinfections), sx >30 yrs. Posts: 4166 | From WA | Registered: Feb 2011
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Rumigirl
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I completely agree with lax mom, please rethink ECT!! Having seen a close family member go through it, it is truly terrible. There can be massive memory loss; she was a zombie for many, many long months, and was never the same again.
With meds, therapy, hospitalization, if needed, there are better ways.
If none of that is enough, there are two newish therapies that are miraculously effective for a huge percentage of people (although not everyone). One is ketamine therapy for depression (and also for pain). It's not covered by insurance for depression, but is for pain. Many people feel tremendously better right away. Since it's new, only some drs do it (it's IV in office).
The other is tDCS (Transcranial Direct Current Stimulation), which also isn't covered for depression, not sure about coverage for pain. Again, it's extremely effective for a lot of people.
Obviously, these are new therapies that are not available with all drs! But they're an option, if more usual therapies aren't working.
I'm so sorry to hear about your terrible situation with your husband. You don't deserve such awful treatment. You deserve love and compassion.
Posts: 3771 | From around | Registered: Mar 2008
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posted
Your husband sounds very immature. A mature person would deal with what is, without blaming you. You are not to blame for your situation, as you did nothing to cause it.
Sounds to me like this is going to be a transition time for you, and when you are through it, I think you will end up in a stronger place, for you. So hang in there and keep advocating for your needs.
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poppy
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Terrible to be rejected when we are sick and most in need of support. Sounds like this is a big part of your current feelings.
Many people have had this experience, shocked to discover that they cannot rely on those who are closest to us. Some people cannot deal with chronic illness in a family member or friend, so I hope your psych will continue to support you in your future efforts to deal with this.
Best wishes to you.
Posts: 2888 | From USA | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
Saving your life seems to be the issue at the moment. Please go if you are concerned you might act on your suicidal thoughts. You can always get more lyme treatment, but death is final.
I wouldn't expect a psy. ward to be savvy on lyme treatment. But at least you will be safe for a few days and be in a different environment.
They might continue antibiotics if your psych or outside MD gives admitting orders. They don't allow you to bring your own medicine, because people could smuggle in all kinds of things that way.
You might want to check out the hospital first to make sure it is not a cold or more depressing environment. I worked in a psy hospital for several years. It can be a mixed bag, but if it is a caring facility with good staff, it might get you a little relief and change of scenery and perspective on your life.
Posts: 14 | From Los Angeles | Registered: Mar 2009
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posted
also know insurance will not authorize an inpatient psy hospitalization for superficial cutting or suicidal thoughts alone. Which is quite sad. There is a distinction between cutting to relieve emotional pain and cutting that is intended to end your life.
With the terrible third-party payor system we have, you have to meet insurance "criteria" for them to pay for inpatient psy treatment which usually means having active and constant suicidal thoughts with a specific plan, means to accomplish the plan, and intent to carry out the plan.
Otherwise the hospital might refer you to a day treatment program every day and for groups and meds and then just sleep at home. which might be another option.
Posts: 14 | From Los Angeles | Registered: Mar 2009
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posted
I haven't read all the posts but I'm hoping someone has mentioned that some of the lyme drugs can create suicidal depressions. Things looked very dark for me while I was on mepron, for example.
Posts: 705 | From WA state | Registered: Jul 2011
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Judie
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"I completely agree with lax mom, please rethink ECT!!"
I've got to agree on this. It's more important in the long term to learn to be gentle and kind to yourself. Some psych meds will help with the compulsive tendencies too.
ECT is rather extreme and the results can be unpredictable.
"some of the lyme drugs can create suicidal depressions."
I had that happen. Several antibiotics severely messed with my emotional state. I stopped them if the symptoms got worse.
You need your mental health. It's just as important as your physical health.
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lululymemom
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Mepron or atovaquone can cause severe depression..
Bartonella henselae 1:100 Posts: 2027 | From British Columbia | Registered: Jun 2010
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Keebler
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- Please, do not consider ECT. It will do nothing to address the infection, toxicity, liver stress or adrenal connection to all this.
And it could make lyme worse. I'm sorry that who ever suggested that for you did not know all this.
I also think that it's never good to run electric jolts into our brains, no matter how much less of a jolt they are today vs. years ago. It's still an electric shock and it can cause a scar, especially in a brain dealing with infection and swelling.
Even in physical therapy, electrical simulation is to be AVOIDED, according to Burranscano's guidlines. Citation below.
ANY vibration or "shock" can cause spirochetes to burrow more deeply and go into their protective cyst form. This can perpetuate and complicate the chronic state of lyme.
Spirochetes HATE vibration and it can cause damage for us when they are tortured.
Vibration and shock is also bad for weakened adrenal system. And weak adrenals can lead to depression and even suicidal situations.
In addition to required liver support to minimize the effect of toxins on the brain and mood, I also hope your LLMD has adressed the necessary adrenal support. Without that, I would have ended it all, surely. My body just did not have the endocrine ability to carry me through any ups or downs.
---------------------------------
See Page 32. Section: PHYSICAL THERAPY (if needed):
. . .
2. Relieve pain and muscle spasms utilizing multiple modalities as available and as indicated:
massage, heat, ultrasound, and passive and active range of motion.
DO NOT use ice or electrical stim unless specifically ordered by our office. . . .
quote:Originally posted by lululymemom: Mepron or atovaquone can cause severe depression..
- As well as flagyl.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96223 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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Tricky Tickey
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If it is a reputable hospital, they cannot deny your medications. Please do not act on your suicidal thoughts, but seek outpatient therapy immediately if you cannot get your insurance to cover an inpatient. I was in group therapy during my treatment, once per week, and it helped me a lot to deal with the exhaustion and emotional pain.
The fact that you recognize your thoughts and acknowledge you are feeling it is a step forward. Don't ignore your desire to seek help. Let us know how you are doing.
-------------------- Early Disseminated LD- 2010. Currently doing acupuncture and yoga. Negative Igenex (IND & Pos Bands) ISSUES AFTER: Tendonitis, letter reversal, Low immune system. PREVENTION:SaltC,Iodine,Humaworm, Chiropractic. Posts: 1013 | From In a van down by the river. | Registered: Jun 2010
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Keebler
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- Anna,
IF Anna is your real name and if the L. also stands for a real last (or even middle name), you might want to delete where your husband works.
IF this is not your name at all, you still might want to delete the place of work.
It could divulge your identity and we all here just want to be sure your privacy is not compromised.
We already know by your signature that you live near the Canadian / Washington State border.
We know know where your husband works - from your post above. And we know some family details that are identifying factors (size of your family). That's really not the detail that could cause trouble, though - just by itself - but can connect dots when the work location is mentioned.
And if this is your real name, if - by chance that is slim but possible - someone who knows either of you sees this they may be able to figure out who you are.
Even if they just work for the company you mentioned and happen to be reading this, that could have some unforeseen effects on you, even you don't know them.
The company is mentioned in this post of yours, about the half-way point. You can delete that name by clicking onto the little paper & pencil icon at the top of the page and it will take you to an edit page.
It's the second of your posts, the one starting with: "More context..." -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Then there the massive amounts of supplements, like methylated B vitamins, omega 3s, magnesium, glutathione precursors, iron (3x week), Vit. C, Multivitamins, etc. the list goes on.
I really do think this is. A combination of my predisposesion towards depression and the awful circumstances in which I find myself.
Problem is, every other depression, I've been able to recover fairly with meds and therapy. Now i have maxed out my meds dosage, been in therapy with a wonderful psychiatrist every week, and nothing changes.
I'm very interested to hear about the ketamine tx, as well as the tCDS. I will mention both at my appt on Monday. Until then, I'm kind if keeping myself in a drug induced stupor so I can't do anything stupid.
Although last night the dam finally broke and I told my husband exactly what I thought and more. It felt good at the time, but the consequences may make me wish I'd stayed bottled up. (He's got the money, the health insurance, etc. anyway, it's complicated.)
This is likely to be my last post on this topic; I've said all I can. But I'm still here. My best friend is having me check in with him once a day, so that safety measure is in place. And on Monday after my psych hears about the weekend, she might put me in the hospital anyway.
But I'm ok. Don't worry if this is all I have to say on this topic.
AnnaL
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Haley
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Thinking of you Anna.
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Pinelady
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Spect Brain imaging before and after Ceftriaxone/Antibiotic treatment.
Multiple infections found at 3:08 with new testing methods.
-------------------- Suspected Lyme 07 Test neg One band migrating in IgG region unable to identify.Igenex Jan.09IFA titer 1:40 IND IgM neg pos 31 +++ 34 IND 39 IND 41 IND 83-93 + DX:Neuroborreliosis Posts: 5850 | From Kentucky | Registered: Dec 2008
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sutherngrl
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Gabapentin gave me severe depression. Just a thought.
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Keebler
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posted
- Klonipin is a central nervous system depressant. It's what is does, depress the whole system. Often used to calm but, in some, it can severely depress.
Morphine, too, would cause depression of the nervous system, and the other systems, too.
Now, of course pain must be managed yet, if the infection is addressed and support menthods used, often the pain can be far less. Many symptoms can be easier when the liver and adrenals are less taxed & supported, etc.
It's extremely important to have an ILADS educated lyme literate therapist / psychiatrist as those who don't kmow about lyme can often cause much harm.
A body without lyme is not the same as one with it. So much is different and medicines that work in someone without lyme can often react much differently for someone with lyme.
I hope you have a good team of LL doctors who will look at the whole picture. It can get better. -
[ 04-05-2013, 04:38 AM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
Klonopin can cause suicide ideation within one week of starting the drug and can worsen depression, too.
Posts: 631 | From the south | Registered: Nov 2008
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posted
Hi Anna - I know I'm late to the table, but bartonella can be associated with self-mutilating behaviors.
Burrascano has a good list of typical clinical symptoms of bartonella, although I am a perfect example of dormant bartonella whose symptoms only came to the surface after I treated lyme.
Might be worth checking with your LLMD and seeing if a trial of rifampin would be appropriate. Good thing about rifampin is that if it works, it usually shows pretty quickly.
Also, babesia can cause wicked emotional issues. In fact, my first symptoms of tick infections were from babesia (suffocating feeling, depressed, anxiety, panic attacks).
Even if you have been tested for babesia and bartonella previously, it is possible to not have a positive result.
I know this for a fact, as I have been treated for babesia for over a year and only now got a positive Babesia FISH result.
In the meantime, can your psyc doc prescribe better treatment while you are in crisis? Mine pulled out the heavy guns when I was depressesd and anxious many years ago.
But you may want to check the bart/babs aspect, just to rule it out and see if you don't respond to treatment there.
I am a shining example of how many of lyme & co's symptoms are psychiatric in nature.
posted
Klonopin caused severe depression and suicidal thoughts for me. Once I stopped the drug, I stopped the non-stop crying. I was only on it for 3 weeks. It caused major physical problems too.
I tried to take trileptal once too and within a day it did the same thing, so I've learned I cannot take any anti seizure meds, gabapentin included.
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