posted
Hi don't know why they don't go together.Asked my daughter's dr. about it when she was on mepron and he didn't know either. I stopped it while she was on the mepron though. Nancy
Posts: 72 | From Greensburg,PA. USA | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
I don't know either but my husband is a patient of Dr. B and just started Mepron for his Babesia. Dr. B said STOP taking the CO-Q10 right when starting Mepron but we didn't bother to ask why? I will ask next week when we see him again.
Posts: 50 | From Huntington,NY | Registered: Oct 2000
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Tincup
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5829
TITLE: Effects of atovaquone and diospyrin-based drugs on ubiquinone biosynthesis in Pneumocystis carinii organisms. AUTHORS: Kaneshiro ES, Sul D, Hazra B
TITLE: Resistance mutations reveal the atovaquone-binding domain of cytochrome b in malaria parasites. AUTHORS: Srivastava IK, Morrisey JM, Darrouzet E, Daldal F, Vaidya AB SOURCE: Mol Microbiol. 1999 Aug;33(4):704-11.
CIT. IDS: PMID: 10447880 UI: 99377123
TITLE: Sequence polymorphisms in the Pneumocystis carinii cytochrome b gene and their association with atovaquone prophylaxis failure.
AUTHORS: Walker DJ, Wakefield AE, Dohn MN, Miller RF, Baughman RP, Hossler PA, Bartlett MS, Smith JW, Kazanjian P, Meshnick SR
posted
Whoa! I'm on Day 6 of Mepron and just for the past two days took Co-Q10 also. I think I'd better read about this!
Sal
quote:Originally posted by MaryRose: I don't know either but my husband is a patient of Dr. B and just started Mepron for his Babesia. Dr. B said STOP taking the CO-Q10 right when starting Mepron but we didn't bother to ask why? I will ask next week when we see him again.
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Beverly
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posted
Up. Posts: 6638 | From Michigan | Registered: Jun 2001
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bpeck
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This must have come back up because of interest: SO here's the reason not to take Co-Q10 & atovaquone (Mepron) together.
CoQ10 is an anit-oxidant & Mepron causes oxidation.
Most protozoans are susceptible to oxygen. So, the best drugs kill by producing oxygen free radicals (and some also produce H2O2 -hydrogen peroxide).
Well, of course CoQ10 is a powerfull anti- free radical so, you don't want to take it with a drug that's generating free radicals -
Marnie
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Here's how CoQ10 works:
"Coenzyme Q10, is present in the mitochondria of human cells and is a cofactor in several metabolic pathways, particularly oxidative phosphorylation. CoQ10 is also a membrane stabilizer and has been shown to increase antioxidant protection in membranes. It also modulates prostaglandins, preserves myocardial NaK-ATPase and inhibits intracellular phospholipases.
CoQ10 is particularly important in myocardial cells which have a high proportion of mitochondria. Heart patients generally have reduced levels of CoQ10. Tissue samples from patients show CoQ10 to be significantly lower in patients with more advanced heart failure, than those in the milder stages.(8) Pretreatment with CoQ10 may play a protective role during coronary artery bypass surgery by reducing peroxidative damage. In a study of 40 bypass patients, pretreatment with CoQ10 significantly reduced reperfusion arrhythmias in the early postoperative phase.(9)
The mitochondria are prime targets of free radical damage in brain cells, leading to decline in mental function. Because of its importance in protecting the mitochondria, CoQ10 may help prevent degenerative brain diseases such as Alzheimers.
Coenzyme Q10 is a quinone molecule that acts as a key electron carrier in the cellular electron transport process. 25 It is also one of the principal antioxidant protectors of mitochondrial membranes. Coenzyme Q10 works together with vitamin E to help protect mitochondrial membranes from oxidative damage.
2. Mitochondrial support
CFS patients have mitochondrial dysfunction in the form of (1) increased oxidant exposure and damage; (2) decreased oxidative phosphorylation; and (3) membrane permeability changes. The mitochondria is the main user of oxygen in the cell and generates reactive by-products during the production of ATP. Because of its compromised condition in CFS, the requirements for antioxidants are increased both to quench the by-products being produced and to fight the effects of the spreading oxidative damage originally initiated by the causative factors. In addition to the many antioxidants mentioned in #4 for immune function, glutathione and coenzyme Q10 should also be considered. Adequate amounts of the full B complex will help normalize mitochondrial metabolism.1 Normalizing and/or restoring normal mitochondrial membrane function and permeability can be helped with the addition of omega-3 fatty acid supplementation."
I wish someone who is "connected" would ask Dr. B directly to explain his reasons for his position on this and also his reason why he no longer recommends flaxseed. A lot of people want to know and understand.
Posts: 9424 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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bpeck
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Marnie: Did you read my reply? CoQ10 (and flaxseed) are powerfull ANTI-oxidants. Mepron GENERATES oxidants.
Cheryl
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posted
They compete for absorption. However, once stopping the mepron it becomes more important than normal to supplement with CoQ-10. Note...this is not an issue for other drugs used instead of mepron, ie. larium.
quote:Originally posted by Pegasa: Dr. B's guidelines recommend CoQ10 200-300 mg daily. But not with Mepron.
Anybody know why these two are contraindicated in combination?
bpeck
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posted
Cheryl- An oxygen free radical is damaging to all cells in the body. And many anti-Malaria drugs produce free radicals as part of the killing mechanism.
An anti-oxidant (such as CoQ10, flaxseed, Vit E, alpha lipoic acid, etc ) keeps free radicals from forming.
Anti-oxidants give up an electron to a free radical - rendering it harmless...
SO, 2 important things here - if your taking an anti-Malaria drug that produces free radicals - don't take an anti-oxidant with it. ALso - remember free radcals damage all cells, so extended use of drugs that produce free radicals aren't good for the body in general.
Cheryl
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posted
Hi Barb-
What you are writing about appears to be a different issue. While it may be valid, my understanding is that this is not the reason for this combo being advised against in guidelines. The problem is that mepron is an analogue of COQ10. This is unique to mepron and COQ10...so the discussion of other antioxidants (with mepron) and other antimalarials (with COQ10) is something different.
Cheryl
quote:Originally posted by bpeck: Cheryl- An oxygen free radical is damaging to all cells in the body. And many anti-Malaria drugs produce free radicals as part of the killing mechanism.
An anti-oxidant (such as CoQ10, flaxseed, Vit E, alpha lipoic acid, etc ) keeps free radicals from forming.
Anti-oxidants give up an electron to a free radical - rendering it harmless...
SO, 2 important things here - if your taking an anti-Malaria drug that produces free radicals - don't take an anti-oxidant with it. ALso - remember free radcals damage all cells, so extended use of drugs that produce free radicals aren't good for the body in general.
posted
To the top
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bpeck
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Oh -OK - Yes - atovaquone's structure is similar to CoQ10 - so will bind to the same oxidation site. OK - now I know where you meant to go with this-
So- I did a search for you: Along those though lines lines, I think LLMDs say no Q10 - maily because they're not sure whether the combo (drug and Q10) will accellerate the parasites ability to mutate and become resistant to Mepron.
Cheryl
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posted
It appears it would be contraindicated specifically with COQ10, as malarone contains atovaquone (mepron). The issue of whether other antioxidants can be taken is up for debate, and Barb will probably differ, but my own opinion (based in part on reading of Lyme guidelines and discussion with LLMDs) is yes that's fine.
Cheryl
quote:Originally posted by mikken: Mom is taking Malarone with her evening vitamins - does anyone know if Malarone is contraindicated with antioxidants?
bpeck
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Hi Cheryl:
If the drug being used generates oxidants to do the parasite killing, then yes - I'd say taking anti-oxidants would be reducing the efficacy of the drug .
Marnie
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posted
It was also my impression that mutation was a big concern.
Barb...this may be of interest (also watch the news re: various acids and how they help protect us from cancer - they are in the news fairly often!)
The late Dr. Willy Meyer, of New York City, wrote. 'Exact pH measurements have revealed the fact, as shown by the literature, that malignancy is always associated with a high degree of alkalosis, and it has also been shown that the alkalosis precedes the malignancy. There can be alkalosis without malignancy but it would seem that there can be no malignancy without alkalosis. The more virulent the malignancy. The stronger must be the alkalosis which sustains it.'" http://www.psychresearch.com/relation_of_iron.html
CANCEROUS CELLS DO NOT CONTAIN HYDROGEN ATOMS. WHEN HEALTHY CELLS HAVE PLENTY OF HYDROGEN THEY CANNOT BECOME CANCEROUS. IF WE CAN GET HYDROGEN INTO ANY UNHEALTHY CELLS, THEY CAN HEAL. www.expage.com/energizeyourlife13
Acid: a chemical substance which causes the formation of hydrogen ions in a solution, containing replaceable hydrogens; and is the opposite of alkali. http://www.denelder.com/wortcraft/wort-a.html
Do you think this is how ozone helps...some okay...too much - NOT...just like everything else!
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Beverly
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Up.
Posts: 6638 | From Michigan | Registered: Jun 2001
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For the first time in a long time, a new Dr has ordered a Lyme test. Hopefully it's not through Quest. Back in 2000 or so was sero-negative and clinically dx'd with LD while tested pcr positive for Babs. LLMD was in Michigan. Now live in Fla. Was at a Lyme event around Gettysburg with Lovey. Stayed is some one's nicely done guest rooms in a barn. Met Dr B there too in the pool. My name then was Sally Avery.
So we'll see how these tests turn out. Let's hope I don't have to start all over again!
Any one know how I can get my old profile active? No longer have the email addy to do a password reset.
Nice to see so many names I remember. Son is now all grown up and an LPN/Medic in the Army Reserves. Back in 2000 he's how I wound up here in the first place, with his LD. Then mine and then spouse's.
Sal
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