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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Any of you cured of early Lyme?

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Author Topic: Any of you cured of early Lyme?
Fuji85
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I'm in the fourth week of my Lyme protocol, having started treatment the day after I discovered my EM rash (8 days after I suspect I was bitten). I had no symptoms when I started treatment.

I'm doing a lot of stuff with an LLMD but it's not going like I expected. I really thought I'd just do the protocol, maybe feel a bit woozy from the drugs, and be done with it.

Well, it's not happening that way. I just want to know: How does treatment usually go for someone with early Lyme? Is it usually straightforward or filled with strange uncertainties, as mine seems to be?

I understand that chronic Lyme is a whole different ballgame, but shouldn't early treatment be fairly simple? If you had early Lyme treatment, what was your experience?

(breaking up the post for easier reading for many here)

[ 04-09-2017, 01:04 AM: Message edited by: Robin123 ]

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TF
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Fuji, I would add that your treatment 8 days after you suspect you were bitten was not the full-dose doxy that lyme doctors give.

Was it 100 mg twice per day? That is what doctors typically give when they are illiterate about lyme.

Were you on that dose for 2 weeks before you switched to 200 mg twice per day?

This all has a bearing on what is happening to you.

So, your case will be different from a person who immediately went on 400 mg doxy per day within a week of their bulls eye rash.

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Fuji85
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Correct, 100 mg 2x/day for two weeks, then 200 2x/day for the last week. I'm starting detox but every day there's some new complaint. Today it's neck stiffness and my abs are starting to ache.

As I mentioned in the other thread, I still suspect this could be toxicity buildup from the Doxy, even if that isn't likely.

That being said, the emergence of symptoms does correspond roughly to when I doubled the dose and went on the cyst-busters and other stuff. So could definitely be a detox going on;

I just hope to see some improvement soon so I can exhale and feel I'm on the right course.

(breaking up the post for easier reading for many here)

[ 04-09-2017, 01:05 AM: Message edited by: Robin123 ]

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dal123
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This makes me so angry, when I was bitten I went to a well known LLDO in Bedford, Texas who gave me only 100 mg doxycycline, 2x a day.

When my symptoms perisited after 21 days and found out that I actually had acute Lyme, the pharmacist told me I should have 400 mg doxy instead of 200 per day. My dog got 400 mg per day and weighed 1/2 of what I do.

But when I asked the LLDO for an increase he told me no it wasn't the standard and if I wanted more doxy to go to a feed store. He also had the nerve to tell me he didn't know how to treat acute Lyme. The Bastard!!!
The !€€><<~.| !!!!!!

Note - breaking up the post for easier reading for many here - Robin

[ 04-09-2017, 01:08 AM: Message edited by: Robin123 ]

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Robin123
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Sounds like you're ready for our alligator pit here...

http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/3/13882?

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TF
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Fuji, you may want to read the story at this link:

http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=027800;p=0

I don't know if this person just got bitten or not but he/she is saying that 30 days of doxy didn't do it for him/her. Now, s/he is looking for a lyme specialist.

Those of us who have been in the lyme world for a while know many early cases of lyme that required more than 30 days of antibiotics to resolve.

You will be interested in the information in Pam Weintraub's book "Cure Unknown." See this quote which is on the topic of curing early disease:

p. 342 tells how Ben Luft, infectious disease specialist and Daniel Dykhuizen, evolutionary biologist, working together at Stony Brook went out into the field collecting ticks and analyzing Borrelia. A few years later, they had a graduate student travel the Eastern seaboard as far north as New Hampshire and south through the Carolinas collecting ticks infected with B. burgdorferi spirochetes.

p.343 "The Borrelia were duly isolated and compared for differences in their genes.

Eventually the researchers focused on twenty strains, each with a different version of the changeable OspC. Working with those twenty strains, Luft learned that six didn't infect humans and ten caused only a rash.

Only four of the twenty could leave the skin to invade other tissue like the heart and joints or the brain. The most virulent of the strains turned out to be the prototypical B31, the version of B. burgdorferi ultimately isolated by Burgdorfer and Barbour at the Rocky Mountain labs in 1981.

The implications are profound. One of the most important is that if just four strains of the twenty cause disseminated infection, then the roster of rash-based studies on the treatment of early Lyme disease, conducted from the 1980s to the present, would have to be reassessed.

Take a moment to ponder the simple math: It would be impossible to accept results based on the assumption that 100 percent of Lyme rashes can cause invasive disease when a significant percent cannot.

Some of the classic studies claim very high cure rates for early infection; yet if the causative strain were of the rash-only variety, then even orange juice would be a "cure." Are recommended treatment protocols truly curing most of those with early, invasive borreliosis? Or has noise from rash-only strains obscured less rosy results." (p. 344)

So, based on faulty studies, people believe that treating early lyme is quick and easy. However, the folks that are easily "cured" with 2 weeks or 28 days of doxy likely never had lyme to begin with. All they had was the "rash only" strain that does not disseminate throughout the body.

Fuji, you obviously got the "real thing" meaning you got real lyme that can disseminate throughout the body and attack the nervous system, etc.

So, don't expect the cure to be quick and easy.

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TF
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Also, neck stiffness or pain in the neck is a CLASSIC lyme symptom. Nearly everyone with lyme gets it. I had it for months. Noticed it especially when I turned my head.

From Burrascano symptom list, page 10:

"Neck creaks and cracks,
stiffness, neck pain"

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willbeatthis
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Thanks for your contribution here TF. I did not even know of the study you referred to. Truly a game changer. I read that book when I was first sick-shows you how affected I was. Brain was compromised for sure! Heck, within the first week I was saying the wrong words with really bad headaches.

Fuji- You've been given the best information out there. If I were in your shoes, I would try to get on with a Burrascano like LLMD asap. That is going to make your journey the quickest to resolve as possible- just my opinion. Lyme is aggressive and you have to be aggressive to beat it. I am sorry for what you are going through.

Much like you, when I had marked herxing when I started I thought I'd caught it quick too. My biggest mistake was ignorance in going to an LLMD that pulse treated me. I finally got to Dr. H(Burrascano like) two years later and was treated properly. I run two businesses and have since I was bitten. Godspeed to you! Thanks as always, TF!

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Fuji85
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Thanks to you both. Regarding this quote:

"However, the folks that are easily "cured" with 2 weeks or 28 days of doxy likely never had lyme to begin with. All they had was the "rash only" strain that does not disseminate throughout the body."

After reading about STARI disease (similar rash but easier cured than Lyme) I wondered if perhaps I got bit by a southern tick (I was in Florida). Part of me still thinks everything going on (including my adrenal spikes/panic attacks today and last night) could just be toxic side effects of the drugs. I felt perfectly fine when I started treatment; all the symptoms have happened SINCE treatment. Still, that's no reason to bail out--can't take the chance.

My current doctor trained with Dr. H, so I'm hoping the protocol is good enough. We're using Serra Peptase and Cat's Claw to bust cysts and biofilm, though, not another antibiotic.

I just realized that today is the one-month anniversary of my bite (as best I can tell). A lot has changed in a month...

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TF
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Why can't your symptoms be toxic side effects of lyme disease bacteria that are in your body?

You said: "I felt perfectly fine when I started treatment; all the symptoms have happened SINCE treatment."

Not true. The bulls eye rash is a symptom of lyme disease. You got that BEFORE treatment.

Treatment causes herxes. That is a known fact. Under "Diagnostic Hints" Burrascano says:

"Another very important factor [in making the lyme diagnosis] is response to treatment- presence or absence of Jarisch Herxheimer-like reactions, the classic four-week cycle of waxing and waning of symptoms, and improvement with therapy."

So, the herx is used by the lyme doctor to make the diagnosis of lyme. (This is how you tell the "fake" bulls eye rashes from the real disseminating lyme disease.)

"Several days after the onset of appropriate antibiotic therapy, symptoms often flare due to lysis of the spirochetes with release of increased amount of antigenic material and possibly bacterial toxins. This is referred to as a Jarisch Herxheimer-like reaction. Because it takes 48 to 72 hours of therapy to initiate bacterial killing, the Herxheimer reaction is therefore delayed. This is unlike syphilis, in which these reactions can occur within hours.

It has been observed that symptoms will flare in cycles every four weeks. It is thought that this reflects the organism’s cell cycle, with the growth phase occurring once per month (intermittent growth is common in Borrelia species). As antibiotics will only kill bacteria during their growth phase, therapy is designed to bracket at least one whole generation cycle. This is why the minimum treatment duration should be at least four weeks.

If the antibiotics are working, over time these flares will lessen in severity and duration. The very occurrence of ongoing monthly cycles indicates that living organisms are still present and that antibiotics should be continued." (p. 17)

So, this disease is unusual. Treatment makes the patient sick (herx), and that sickness confirms that the medication is killing lyme germs.

Since this is a fact, the patient cannnot blame the sickness on the medication! Too bad you first went to a doctor who didn't have a clue about lyme disease and this doc told you the medication was making you sick.

You have confirmed for yourself, however, that doxy does not cause the side effects you are having. So, you really should put this notion to bed. I know you are really against antibiotics, but that does not change the fact of how a person with lyme is going to react to good lyme treatment.

Notice at the beginning of the above quote, the herx happens "several days after the onset of appropriate treatment." For you, appropriate treatment began 2 weeks after you first sought treatment for your bulls eye rash.

From Burrascano, p. 7:

"The EM rash will begin four days to several weeks after the bite, and may be associated with constitutional symptoms. Multiple lesions are present less than 10% of the time, but do represent disseminated disease."

Notice that you can get the rash several weeks after the bite. So, perhaps you were bitten weeks before you got the bulls eye. So then, appropriate treatment could have begun over a month after you actually got bitten.

Also, your small red rashes could be multiple lesions. I recall getting red spots before I became ill with lyme the first time many years ago. They were about as big as a dime. It took a few days for all 13 to appear on my legs. They were itchy. For all I know, this could have been my "rash" the first time I got lyme.

Burrascano even says that the person may not even notice the rash. This can happen, for example, if it is in your scalp.

So, with lyme, you can get a bite and never see a tick, get lyme without ever getting a rash, get a rash and never see it, get many very small rashes and not realize they are lyme rashes.

Lyme rashes can vary greatly in appearance. If you view the pictures, you will be AMAZED at how different they can look.

Notice at the top of Burrascano's symptom list he says "Spotted rash over large area."

I hope you are getting the picture that many, many people with lyme don't get what the mainstream tries to tell us are the necessary lyme disease signs and symptoms. And, they certainly don't tell people that if you get a herx on treatment, then you really did get lyme disease.

And, they certainly don't tell people that not every bulls eye is the real lyme disease.

So, as you can see, people have a lot of misinformation in their minds which they consider facts about lyme disease. And, that certainly includes the majority of doctors in the country.

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willbeatthis
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Honestly, how long did your doc train with Dr. H? Do you know? Is he an LLMD, willing to use Dr. H's protocol with multiple abx rotated generally- it's aggressive but very worth it in my mind. The longer you allow it to establish a foothold, the harder it will be to eradicate. Trust me on this. You begin to have over time I believe more and more life cycles going making it really hard to eradicate-the ability to morph forms alone puts the patient at a real disadvantage. I'm hoping with proper care you can head off the worst of this disease. TF, do you still know of a couple Burrascano type docs that still are seeing clients. Message me too if you'd like my thoughts on a current option.

I wish I had the information you have now when I started out. It could have made all the difference. Misinformation is a travesty in this case. The good news- if you go after this properly now, you may become a TF and help her out! I hope to one day!

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TF
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willbeatthis, yes, I know a few docs here in the eastern side of the U.S. who follow Burrascano (or the Dr. H. protocol which is just improvements on Burrascano) and are still taking new patients.

Message me if you want the names.

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TF
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Fuji, you will see panic attacks listed by Burrascano as a lyme symptom. See p. 9:

"Anxiety, panic attacks"

Lyme anxiety is a very common lyme symptom. I had it for years and had to go on medication for it. It is a TERRIBLE symptom. Nearly everyone with lyme gets it.

Also the adrenal malfunction. So, whatever bodily system lyme attacks, that system will malfunction. That is what is happening to you unless you have worked yourself up into such a state that your state of mind about getting sick from lyme/having to take antibiotics is causing this.

Whatever the cause, if it continues and you can't get rid of it on your own, a lyme doctor will prescribe something for it. Suffering from anxiety is no way to live.

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TF
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Fuji, see this post from carol from pa:

"When antibiotics kill Lyme bacteria, the liver uses more magnesium to detoxify the poisons left behind.
So you may become deficient in magnesium.

Magnesium deficiency can cause palpitations and other heart irregularities.

Are you having other problems like anxiety, depression, insomnia, muscle twitching or spasms, sensitivity to light or sound?
These are all symptoms of low magnesium."

http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=135746;p=0#000014

So, this is another possible cause of your panic attacks and adrenal problems. You can easily add magnesium to your protocol, and I suggest you do so.

Mag is very important for all lyme patients to take. It takes about a week (or less) for it to get rid of the symptoms of low mag. However, this assumes you are on a very good, very absorbable magnesium such as MagTab SR recommended by Burrascano.

This mag is truly superior to what you will buy in most health food stores. Most mag on store shelves is not absorbed or is very poorly absorbed. If you are not a magnesium expert, then I suggest you order MagTab SR online today and start taking the Burrascano suggested dose:

"6. MAGNESIUM (required)
Magnesium supplementation is very helpful for the tremors, twitches, cramps, muscle soreness, heart skips and weakness. It may also help in energy level and cognition. The best source is magnesium L-lactate dehydrate (“Mag-tab SR”, sold by Niche Pharmaceuticals: 1-800-677-0355, and available at Wal-Mart). DO NOT rely on “cal-mag”, calcium plus magnesium combination tablets, as they are not well absorbed. Take at least one tablet twice daily. Higher doses increase the benefit and should be tried, but may cause diarrhea. In some cases, intramuscular or intravenous doses may be necessary." (p. 28)

I hope the mag solves your problem! Let us know!

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Fuji85
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You folks sure are thorough. Way too much to respond to on my lunch break. But to clarify:

Symptoms: Of course I was referring to symptoms I could FEEL. I know the EM rash is symptomatic and enough alone to justify starting treatment (which is why I didn't wait for physical symptoms).

I'm fairly certain my bite happened in Florida, since before that I was in a Vermont winter and never went near the woods. As for all the other rashes: they were puffy and itched like crazy. They appeared immediately, unlike the bullseye which took a week. Are the other rashes indicative of a tick bite? I vote bed bugs, (especially considering the place I was staying in).

Adrenals and mag: I've always had hyperadrenia (overactive adrenals) so the panic thing doesn't surprise me. I was taking 600-800 mg of mag a day before treatment, and stopped everything because I feared it would bind with the drugs. I'm adding it back in now (oral, ionic, transdermal oil, Epson baths) but not with the drugs.

[ 04-10-2017, 02:12 PM: Message edited by: Fuji85 ]

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TF
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Good. Glad you know all about mag.

Oh, I also meant to inform you that mosquitoes, fleas, mites, flies, and other insects are now known to be possible transmitters of lyme to people.

So, ticks aren't necessary anymore for a person to get lyme.

And, we have had folks who got bitten by ticks in winter, even far north. One lady said the tick was on her Christmas tree and when they brought the tree into the house, it warmed up and started walking around.

So, she believes she got lyme from a tick on her Christmas tree in Iowa.

Winter doesn't kill ticks, but it makes them less active. That is all. So, please know that you can get bitten by a tick in Vermont any month of the year.

Stick around LymeNet and you will learn a LOT about tick bites, transmission of lyme, etc.

Glad you found us. We like to help folks that are just starting out. You can learn from our bad experiences and mistakes and not have to make them yourself!

Reading the Q&As here will give you a lot of info:

https://sites.google.com/site/marylandlyme/50-faq-answers

It names all of the insects that are now known to transmit lyme.

And, regarding Stari, it doesn't matter if you got that or lyme. The treatment is basically the same.

I see Lone Star ticks around my home all the time. I have seen them walking on my street, and a fellow walking down the street had one crawl on him and he picked it off, identified it as Lone Star, and then smashed it. Amazing, huh?

I stand on my paved driveway for 20 minutes, and then I go in the house and immediately find 2 ticks on my thigh. You see, I am a tick magnet. So, they run after me.

Some folks make pheromones that smell wonderful to ticks. These people are the tick magnets. My husband does risky behavior in our yard and woods and rarely gets a tick. Benefit of not being a "tick magnet."

And, I had a coworker who parked in a park parking lot. A tick got in her car and bit her in her car as she sat there eating her lunch. She had dark skin. Her rash looked like a large bruise on her leg.

Since she NEVER went into the woods, she didn't think it could be lyme. And, her mother (in her 70s) yelled at me to stop helping her daughter since she never went into the woods, so she absolutely could never get lyme!

I took the woman to her doctor and then for the lyme blood test. She was positive. Too bad she lost her memory and ability to think. So, her family started controlling her life and they would not accept that she had lyme.

She started taking lots of sick leave after that leg "bruise" and was ultimately forced out of the office by her inability to think. She was made to file for disability benefits and I hear she is now in a nursing home. She didn't even know her age when I took her to a lyme doctor.

Hopkins tentatively diagnosed her with Alzheimer's disease.

I could tell you many sad stories. But, the point is that you do not need to go into a woods to get lyme. You can get it on the beach, sitting on your porch, standing on your driveway, or inside your house.

Mice carry ticks. A very indoorsy woman who never went outdoors got lyme in Florida. I worked with her hubby to figure out how this happened.

Once I mentioned mice, he then remembered that they had rented a house that had mice. When he would trap and kill them, he noticed lots of ticks on them. So, she evidently was bitten by a tick while living in her house in Florida.

Folks in NYC living in high-rise apartments get lyme from the mice in these apartments. So, you don't need a woods in the vicinity even of an asphalt jungle to get lyme.

Too bad people don't know this.

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Keebler
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Birds in a city also transport ticks. And pets.
Mice aren't the only little creatures.

Anywhere birds fly or critters scamper . . . basically, anywhere. Even penguins at the South Pole have been found to have ticks that carry a kind of borellia. Yep.

I know of two people who contracted lyme from ticks in their Christmas trees. It's not as unusual as one might think.

With no pets, no holiday greenery at all . . . yet I did often take walks in the woods . . . one apt. of mine I found two ticks on two different walls, just crawling. Trees were around and ticks could have just wondered in from outside.

Squirrels on my deck, too. Squirrels, chipmunks and all their cousins are a major transport for ticks as well. I don't want anyone to start not liking wildlife. But the more aware we can be to pay attention, the better off we all will be. Being mindful and then proactive where possible.
-

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Keebler
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Lyme attacks the nervous system . . . and the adrenal system (and just about anything else it wants)


http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/1/89790

Topic: NATURAL SLEEP & ADRENAL SUPPORT
-

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willbeatthis
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Thanks,TF! I'll reach out if I find someone in need. Thanks too Keebler for all this info.

My brother in law refused a natural Christmas tree this year after bringing in ticks with their natural tree last year- seeing AA- that's what they call me deal with chronic lyme for years- well, he wasn't willing to take the risk with his family and my sister to this day- doesn't fully "get it" said a fake tree was cheaper than marriage counseling.

So yes, trees, birds, mice, bedbugs and mosquitos- we are all at real risk today. I'm not convinced that when as a guidance counselor in a rural school -I was 28 and got a nasty case of head lice -another reason not to hug young children as an educator I'm afraid- I was clueless. Perhaps that is the first time I contracted it but did not know it and then in 2008- the tick bite- which could have been from a mouse or squirrel- I heard them in my house at that time was the bite that put my IS over the edge.

God bless TF and Keebler- the lives you've saved are likely too many to count. God BLESS you...

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Fuji85
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So just about anything that bites can transmit Lyme, basically. I didn't see that even Dr. B's paper on Lyme (which you've referenced), but I guess it wouldn't surprise me.

Starting to think that Lyme is the ultimate trick birthday candle disease--you can't blow it out. I have no choice but to try. Why do I feel like I'm already losing?

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Keebler
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you are not already losing. You are sick. And that's not losing. It's just not.


Also don't be fooled by thinking there is such a category as "early lyme" as there is not - not really. Not as one might think, anyway.

There is lyme that is addressed earlier than later, though. Bb can infect the nervous system within hours of a bite from an infected vector.

Once that bite occurs, if tick is infected, lyme is lyme. And the coinfections as well are established.

Treatment may be shorter in the long run the sooner addressed but it could still take many months or years.

It's not like the infections are going to be "Lite" versions at all even if diagnosed sooner than most of us were. Even early detected lyme can be very serious and severe. And it's never - ever - just lyme. Never.

Sorry. Just be certain your doctor is truly able -- and willing to do what is required.

Treat is never straightforward & it's always filled with strange uncertainties. You asked about this and I'm sorry to have to be so honest.

Book: CURE UNKNOWN, very much LL author PAMELA WEINTRAUB

she discusses the myth of "early lyme" was busted when (I think her second son) became infected with lyme and they had identified it very early on, not late as with a first son to treat, or with her own case.

The son for whom treatment started sooner rather than later still had an enormously complicated and protracted treatment path.


Yes, it's very complex. The learning curve is staggering at best. Yet, one step at a time and you can find your way. Really. Breathe.
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Keebler
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http://www.clinicaladvisor.com/features/controversy-continues-to-fuel-the-lyme-war/article/117160/

Controversy continues to fuel the "Lyme War" - Clinical Advisor, 2007

[section] Treatment dilemmas . . .

. . . Borrelia burgdorferi has an in vitro replication cycle of about seven days, one of the longest of any known bacteria.

Antibiotics are most effective during bacterial replication, so the more cycles during a treatment, the better.

Since the life cycle of Streptococcus pyogenes (the bacterium that causes strep throat) is about eight hours, antibiotic treatment for a standard 10 days would cover 30 life cycles.

To treat Lyme disease for a comparable number of life cycles, treatment would need to last 30 weeks. . . .
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Keebler
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http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/Forum1/HTML/020605.html

Making the most of your LLMD visit (compiled by Melanie Reber)


http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/1/115161?#000000

What Makes a Lyme Doc Top Notch (TF shares this)
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Keebler
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http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=030792;p=0

LIVER & KIDNEY SUPPORT & and several HERXHEIMER support links, too.
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willbeatthis
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I second Keebler! You are not already losing. If anything you have the information that so many of us wish we had when we started. It can be a game changer. Ask TF about her story if you have not already. She is WELL today because she treated adequately. That is key! You are the Captain of your own ship and you can do this..... We are all with you and behind you! Let us know what we can do to help.... blessings, WBT
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grakay
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Hey Fuji, I was in your shoes almost a year ago. I was bit by a lonestar tick in NC. I started showing flu-like symptoms, joint pain, and tingling a week later and got 100mg doxy 2x/day for 3 weeks. (Every week I had to call my family doctor & beg for more doxy) I got in to see a LLMD 1 months after the tick bite and the doxy dose was definitely increased.

Regarding what you said about STARI, it's the same treatment as lyme like TF said.

I had to switch antibiotics after 5 months.
I'm not better from the tick bite, due to coinfections, and I definitely do have lyme. I asked my LLMD why I had lyme, bartonella, and babesia if a lonestar tick bit me. He said that it's possible another tick bit me and I only found 1 tick.

You're not losing, hang in there! I'm sorry that you're herxing.

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Keebler
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This author contends that STARI most certainly can be lyme. ILADS educated doctors know this; the IDSA does not.

http://www.medsci.org/v10p0915.pdf [as 17 page pdf]

Int J Med Sci 2013; 10(7):915-931. doi:10.7150/ijms.6273

Research Paper

Lyme Borreliosis in Human Patients in Florida and Georgia, USA - 2013

Excerpt:

. . . Based on the findings of this study, we suggest that human Lyme borreliosis occurs in Florida and Georgia,

and that some cases of Lyme-like illness referred to as southern tick associated rash illness (STARI) in the southern U.S. may be attributable to previously undetected B. burgdorferi sensu lato infections.

--

Of note, the first author listed above received a Lyme Disease Association Grant

His research resume is very impressive. If he is connected with any study you might come across, he sure looks like an excellent researcher to have on any team:

https://www.unf.edu/bio/N00008824/

Kerry L Clark

Professor • Epidemiology & Environmental Health
Public Health • Brooks College of Health - University of North Florida
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willbeatthis
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My tick most certainly looked liked the nymph-still clear- of a lonestar tick. Fugi- Information is power! I'm sorry your going through this as well!
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TF
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A Lone Star tick can carry lyme, babesiosis, bartonella, you name it. And, in my area, all the ticks are carrying these diseases.

I understand that even brown dog ticks can and do carry them now.

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Brussels
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I don´t agree that EM rash means lyme disease as there are so many people who develop the rash here in switzerland and never ever fall sick with lyme symptoms like I did, and my daughter did (she never had any rash).

I totally relate to the fact that em rash didn´t cause me any symptoms and that only AFTER DOXY I started having hard neck, arthritis, sciatica, GI symptoms, etc etc.

My daughter got bitten and then got amoxy for 5 weeks. she was too small for doxy when that happened.

She had developed lyme symptoms DURING amoxy, like arthritis at the age of 2, and amoxy helped destroy her gut further. So it took her many months to fix abx damage.

After week 5, her lyme doctor pulled her from abx and started homeopathy, herbs, microcurrent, a full non-drug approach. Only then she started improving, walking again...

As we are so much bitten, fully reinfected so many times by ticks, we have no choice than to treat differently than most people: by reinforcing the immune system, change of diet etc.

We´ve been almost 8 years lyme free, despite many bites, so the treatment is paying back.

We never returned to treatment with antibiotics because otherwise we would have needed to be on antibiotics until today, due to those innumerous reinfections.

I do think damage to the gut is a serious matter, if you get reinfected. We had fought and still fight food allergies, bad mineral absorption, so for us, we use abx only as a last resource.

I even wonder if I hadn´t taken any doxy 15 days after the tick bite that caused me the EM rash (and no other symptom), if my body wouldn´t have dealt with borrelia much better on its own, like all the people I know who develps em rash after tick bites and never ever develop lyme disease.

There was an LLMD I forgot the name that said that people who develop the rash usually have better immune systems than people who never develop the rash.

Borrelia tries to survive on the surface of the skin, as inside the body, it loses ground to a stronger immune system.

My daughter developed symptoms from day 2 after the first tick bite, age 2! In a few days, she had so many neuro symptoms, arthritis, severe gut problems and she never had any em rash, despite so many tick bites (she´s now 13)....

I developed full chronic lyme disease in less than 4 months, fully bed bound, hard neck, arthritis, many neurologic symptoms and digestive problems that took literally years to improve. Despite doxy in my case, and despite amoxy in my daughter-s case.

We´re now in Brazil, surfing, kayaking, swimming daily here.

Before I left switzerland, I had got another tick bite, the first of 2017.

If you guys are afraid of insect bites, there is only one way out: reinforcing the body´s strength (of course antimicrobials are necessary, but the main core of treatment should be to build the immune system again, so that you can live life well again one day)

My personal opinion, of course.

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