I've been using the full combination of supplements recommended as mitochondria food for about two weeks.
My energy level has doubled, and I have been able to decrease my cortef by about a third.
I recommend this protocol wholeheartedly, as I believe the mitochondria (the energy producers of the cells) get damaged from intra cellular (l-form) lyme and mycoplasma infections.
I take the following supplements in the following dosages:
Co-Q 10 (100mg 4x day) (I started on 1600 a day for a week then reduced) L-Acetyl Carnitine (500 mg) Alpha Lipoic acid (110 mg) Magnesium (500 mg 2x day) NADH (Co-E1 or Vit B)(2.5 mg) (note: always take B's with a complex) D-Ribose (about 2 tsp a day)
I take about a half tsp of D-Ribose (a sugar that feeds the mitochondria) under the tongue when I feel low, aout four times a day, and I get a boost in about ten minutes. I've also lost my craving for chocolate and sweets.
D-Ribose is also available in tablets with added sugars. I imagine that those on abx might want to stick to a D-Ribose powder sublingual, and chase it with a probiotic or nystatin wash.
Thanks Marnie, for turning me on to all this stuff.
Note: I think this protocol is a miracle, but everybody is different. As always, check with your doctor or your own self.
I personally only add one supplement at a time at least a week a part, so I can get a better idea of what the results are from each.
There are several posts on this topic over the past month, if you want to research.
Best to all in your healing process!
Posted by CD57 (Member # 11749) on :
That's great news bejoy! Thanks. I've been looking for an energy booster. Where can you get D-Ribose? And, do you take all these things together?
Posted by bejoy (Member # 11129) on :
I ordered D-Ribose and some of the others from Vitacost.com. They have pretty good prices (Ribose was 21.91 for 200 grams) and one price of 4.99 for any size order.
I do take all those supplements together, but added them one at a time.
The CoQ 10 also gave me a very significant energy boost when I added it in. It is quite pricey, but I find it worth the money!
I can't say if D-Ribose would work as well for me without the rest of the list, since I added it last.
I hope you also get some good results!
Posted by lymeHerx001 (Member # 6215) on :
Used to experiment with these supplements, now they just give me panic attacks and anxiety.
Stinks
Posted by Boomerang (Member # 7979) on :
Why do you think they give you panic attacks? Because of swallowing so many pills?
Posted by ChrisBtheLymie (Member # 8916) on :
I have been taking all those supplements for my mitochondria for over a year now. They made a MASSIVE difference. I had about 3 X the amount of energy after 3 months - keep taking them and you could improve further. The last 6 months I haven't been taking them as much and feel absolutely exhausted again, so I am starting to take them again.
Posted by clairenotes (Member # 10392) on :
Thanks for posting your progress, Bejoy.
Laboring through the supporting research certainly can be fruitful.
Hope the positive effects continue.
Claire
Posted by Vermont_Lymie (Member # 9780) on :
Thanks bejoy for posting about your experience!
I take most of these supplements, though at lower doses, and they really help my energy too! Especially the CoQ10 and NADH.
The one thing that I do not use much is D-Ribose. Since it is a form of carbohydrate (a sugar), I wonder whether it may exacerbate any yeast issues, which I am constantly fightinig off. Any thoughts on that are welcome!
Posted by minimonkey (Member # 8693) on :
L-Carnitine helps me a great deal with energy. I've also found that N-Acetyl-Cysteine helps a lot -- not only is it liver protective, but it is also a precursor to glutathione, which tends to be very low in us.
Posted by Marnie (Member # 773) on :
D ribose is a 5 carbon sugar not a 6.
Big difference.
These are the sugars Bb can use:
"the monosaccharides glucose, mannose, and N-acetylglucosamine, the disaccharides maltose and chitobiose, and glycerol."
I think Bb's PKC inhibitor is PKC DELTA. So...Bb might not be able to use D-glucose either which is delta glucose = dextrose.
Posted by lymeHerx001 (Member # 6215) on :
quote:Originally posted by lymeHerx001: Used to experiment with these supplements, now they just give me panic attacks and anxiety.
Stinks
No not because of the pills.
Anything that potentiates acetylcholine or nor-epinephrine gives me a panicky disconnected feeling. Even coffee does this now. Anything past the first cup and my head gets foggy and I actually get more tired.
Im too tired now to comprehend.
DMAE used to work great! Same with piracetam.
NADH just made me very horny at first and made everything very colorfull. This only lasted a couple of days. Its all down hill.
Im just going after yeast now. Forget the rest.
Posted by Marnie (Member # 773) on :
ALA deplets biotin and maybe some other B vitamins...so it is important that you are taking the complex.
Many B vitamins are destroyed by our strong stomach acids, so it is good to be sure to drink a full glass of water when taking these to attempt to dilute the stomach acids somewhat.
Dr. Bruce Ames (Berkeley) has a product called Juvenon to help "heal the mitochondria" also.
It is recommended one take 2 capsules per day and (via a phone call to them)...ideally at 4pm as one hormone peaks then. Know which one?
Dr. Perricone has another way to heal the mitochondria...chromium + tons of acids plus a low glycemic index diet.
We make hydrogen all the time and it goes right into our cells, but to get it into the mitochondria (powerhouses of the cells) within the cells, that looks to require CoQ10.
I spoke with a pharmacist about this a long time ago. He worked at a local compounding pharmacy. He told me this is so important he and his wife take it daily, along with a multiple vitamin-mineral.
It doesn't look like Bb is IN the mitochondria, but is instead attached to our DNA which is also inside the cells.
This is tricky. We need to power the cells that are NOT infected, but at the same time, destroy or allow destruction of the cells that ARE infected/damaged.
Think of it this way...if we have cancer cells, we use drugs to specifically target those cells or we use radiation therapy to specifically target. Or we use very powerful chemotherapy which has a widespread systemic impact.
I'm glad you are feeling better!
For whatever reason, it LOOKS to take 2 years to heal no matter what "alternative" route one takes.
I wish I knew why exactly 2 years!
Posted by efsd25 (Member # 2272) on :
Awesome post Bejoy and excellent discussion. Have been using everything except the D-Ribose, which I will add.
Thank you shareing. These supplements have been the most important to me that I take!
Ernie
Posted by jasonsmith (Member # 10914) on :
Isn't there a med that you are not supposed to with the CoQ 10?
Posted by ElaineC (Member # 9857) on :
Yes, if you are taking Atovaquone (Mepron or Malarone) for babesia you should not take COQ10!
Posted by Marnie (Member # 773) on :
Geeze...
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You searched for interactions between the following drugs and herbs: �
Coenzyme Q-10 � Mepron
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Drugs(Note: Herbal products are not subject to review or approval from the FDA. Not all of the risks, side effects, or interactions associated with the use of herbal products have been studied. Not all drug interactions are known or reported in the literature, and new drug interactions are continually being reported. This information is provided only for your education and for you to discuss with your personal healthcare provider. )
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"Atovaquone (also called Mepron, or 566C80) is a napthoquinone used for the treatment of infections caused by pathogens such as Plasmodium spp. and Pneumocystis carinii.
The mechanism of action against the malarial parasite is the inhibition of dihydroorotate dehydrogenase (DHOD), a consequence of blocking electron transport by the drug.
As an analog of ubiquinone (coenzyme Q [CoQ]), atovaquone irreversibly binds to the mitochondrial cytochrome bc1 complex; thus, electrons are not able to pass from dehydrogenase enzymes via CoQ to cytochrome c.
Since DHOD is a critical enzyme in pyrimidine biosynthesis, and because the parasite cannot scavenge host pyrimidines, the drug is lethal to the organism.
Oxygen consumption in P. carinii is inhibited by the drug;
thus, electron transport has also been identified as the drug target in P. carinii.
However, unlike Plasmodium DHOD, P. carinii DHOD is inhibited only at high atovaquone concentrations, suggesting that the organism may salvage host pyrimidines and that atovaquone exerts its primary effects on ATP biosynthesis....
Antimicrob Agents Chemother. 2000 March; 44(3): 713-719
Posted by Vermont_Lymie (Member # 9780) on :
Thanks Marnie. I have been wondering about this for a long time (for the 5 months that I have been on malarone).
Many lymenetters have posted not to take CoQ10 at the same time as mepron/malarone, but I could not find anything to document this interaction. I really missed my Coq10 during the first few months on malarone, had given it up!
Posted by jasonsmith (Member # 10914) on :
Are there any special places you like to get these from?
And I believe NAC is one of them too, right?
Posted by bejoy (Member # 11129) on :
I ordered D-Ribose and some of the others from Vitacost.com. They have pretty good prices (Ribose was 21.91 for 200 grams) and one price of 4.99 for any size order.
You may do better by surfing around the net for a while, but this was the best buy I found for an order of multiple items at the time.
Posted by ibrakeforticks (Member # 6785) on :
This work was done by Dr. Martin Pall and he has written a book called "Explaining Unexplained Illnesses".
Looks to be along the same lines. I haven't purchased the book as it is quite expensive. But will add a couple of the supplements. Many he recommends I already take.
If anyone has read or will read this book, please enlighten us.
Thank you!!
Posted by AndrewInCA (Member # 2010) on :
I understand all of this except the following:
"NADH (Co-E1 or Vit B)(2.5 mg)"
What is this? Also:
"(note: always take B's with a complex)"
Do you mean B's should always be taken together?
Posted by valbeth (Member # 12715) on :
Couple questions and comments. Bejoy or Marnie, is this a version of the Pall protocol? If it isn't where is it from? If it is, why are there differences? Is the Magnesium malate or another form? I believe the problem with CoQ10 is with Artemsinin, not Mepron (same disease different tx).
I have been doing a lot of reading re Pall and Amy Lasko's work, and while there are major differences between them they both seem to focus on the production of nitric oxide. Once I get off the Arteminisin I want to address this probably, but am having a hard time picking a protocol- Pall, yours, or the simplified Lasko (very heavy in supplementing various B vitamins at it's most basic). Any thoughts or comments appreciated.
Posted by RoadRunner (Member # 380) on :
dont take mepron and Q10 together
Furthermore, we know this for certain, because Mepron blocks the transport of electrons, directly short circuiting the parasite's metabolism; whereas CO-Q10 functions to transport electrons, facilitating the parasite's metabolism.
That means that these analogues work in entirely opposite ways and the CO-Q10 can block and counteract the very mechanism by which Mepron attacks the parasitic infection. That's why our LLMDs caution against their concomitant use.
Please note, the research does NOT point to them being "pretty much the same" at all if one reads it carefully.
It is very important NOT to take Mepron and CO-Q10 together and there are multiple warnings on this site about those interactions based on research as well as clinical experience treating Lyme and Babesia co-infections.