OK. I've been aound here awhile, but I don't really post too much.
I have been taking mepron and zith, to treat babs.
Previously, I had taken levaquin (and ceftin), but it seemed that I didn't have bart. That was discontinued, mepron and zith were begun.
Now, my LLMD believes some symptoms are a result of bart. He started me on rifampin just last week.
The effects were immediate.
The problem is the emotional havoc that rifampin is causing.
I am constantly on the verge of tears. I am extremely upset and emotional.
This is like nothing I've ever experienced. I've had four pregnancies. The emotional turmoil of one of those can't compare to this.
I thank you all for the warnings about mepron. I have been watching. Mepron hasn't caused any emotional disturbance for me.
The warnings about mepron say to stop if it gets too much.
I've read warnings about rifampin that say you can't stop-and-start it.
How can I tell the difference between a herx that I can ride out and a real problem when I'm pretty sure my judgement is off.
I don't really herx, so how can I tell if I'm overreacting?
Any input would be greatly apprecited. I'm desperate for some advice.
carly
Posted by Haley (Member # 22008) on :
HI Carly,
I'm not sure I can answer your question about whether the Rifampin is causing a herx or you are having a reaction. I do know that I had a very severe reaction to Rifampin. I felt like I was having a heart attack and all of my blood vessels were breaking. It was not a herx. Be sure to ask your doctor if your symptoms could be a reaction, although a lot of LLMDs will say "oh that's a herx" even if it isn't.
I hope you get well soon.
Posted by AliG (Member # 9734) on :
Bart does cause emotional stuff.
Are you taking any other meds besides Rifampin or any supplements?
Posted by kitty9309 (Member # 19945) on :
What dose of Rifampin did you start with?
I would start at 150mg or even split that to 75, suing an empty gel cap.
It is easier if you slowly increase the dose.
I have had the emotional stuff in the beginning of Biaxin (ramped up slow) and a little on Rifampin.
Be careful and good luck.
Posted by Nicole_Denise (Member # 20620) on :
Hmm. I just upped my dose of Bactrim and started Rifampin and I'm having the same problem. I'm pretty sure it's bartonella, but I'm not sure.
Anyway- I know exactly what you mean. Every little thing has me in tears, and some days it just happens for no reason! I can't watch TV of any sort, because as soon as something even slightly emotional happens on the show, I crack up too.
I'm really hoping it goes away soon. I'll be hoping for you too now!
Posted by AliG (Member # 9734) on :
I just checked the prescribing info & don't see any emotional side effects.
I think you're probably hitting Bart, in which case, it should eventually lessen & stop.
Rifampin does have a LOT of interactions though, so if you're taking any other meds that might have emotional effects, it could be an interaction thing.
Posted by lpkayak (Member # 5230) on :
i couldn't read all of this but rifampin gave me psyc sx immediatly-sx i never had in my life
i restarted real slow-and had a close freind stay with me to talk to me about what was going on-keep it in perspective
it helped me to stop the drug-w/in 12 hrs all psych sx went away-then i take it and immediatly they come back. it was helpul to realize i coudl control the sx-clearly it was from the med
so i ramped up really slow...and it made all my lumps and nodules go away in 2 months.
but 1 month later they came back and now are worse than ever.
i have a freind who has been on rifampin for yrs...i don't know how long you have to take it to really get the bart
my llmd wants me to fight it with herbs
good luck
Posted by carly (Member # 14810) on :
Thanks for the feedback and support, guys.
My last dose was Thursday morning, more than 24 hrs before I posted this. It took some time to work it's way out of my system.
Not the rifampin, but whatever it killed off that was causing my emotional sensitivity. That's what I think right now, anyway.
I heard back from my llmd's nurse that evening, she told me to stop rifampin until he calls me back.
I've been exhausted all weekend, just like after an emotional trauma. I've slept alot.
I am definitely sure it's the bart. I can also attribute some of my other symptoms to bart now, thanks to my response to rifampin.
I started on 300mg 2x/day. Too much too soon, I guess.
I'm usually OK with an average dose of a medicine. I've never before had such a drastic response.
I am also on mepron and zithromax. I am also taking some supplements, including vitD drops which I just started too. No reaction to them. I waited before introducing rifampin.
Basically I'm taking adrenal support and vitamins. Those I've been taking for months.
Again, I suspect bart.
I know. Rifampin interferes with "everything". I take it 2hrs or more away from other meds, that way they're not in my stomach together, at least.
It seems that this time, my doctor has hit a nerve.
I suppose I can view this experience as progress. It was very hard for a few days there, but now I'm past it.
Nicole-Denise: I'd put in a call to your doctor, that is, if you haven't already. That's my advice after this experience.
I't so hard to tell when "enough" is "too much". That's why we have these doctors.
Thanks again, everyone!
Carly
Posted by AliG (Member # 9734) on :
I know that Mepron can cause depression & emotional issues. Perhaps the fluctuating levels of Mepron could be wreaking havoc on you or your dose of Rifampin could be too high.
Moderate Interaction ATOVAQUONE/RIFABUTIN; RIFAMPIN Mepron Oral and Rifampin Oral may interact based on the potential interaction between ATOVAQUONE and RIFABUTIN; RIFAMPIN.
Atovaquone/Rifabutin; Rifampin
This information is generalized and not intended as specific medical advice. Consult your healthcare professional before taking or discontinuing any drug or commencing any course of treatment.
MONOGRAPH TITLE: Atovaquone/Rifabutin; Rifampin
SEVERITY LEVEL: 3-Moderate Interaction: Assess the risk to the patient and take action as needed.
MECHANISM OF ACTION: The exact mechanism is unknown.(1,2)
CLINICAL EFFECTS: Concurrent administration of atovaquone with rifampin or rifabutin may result in decreased levels and clinical effects of atovaquone (1,2) and increased levels of and side effects from the rifamycin.(1)
PREDISPOSING FACTORS: None determined.
PATIENT MANAGEMENT: The administration of rifampin and rifabutin during atovaquone therapy is not recommended.(2). Consider alternative agents to rifampin and rifabutin during atovaquone therapy.(1)
DISCUSSION: In a study of 13 HIV-positive patients, rifampin (600 mg every 24 hours) and atovaquone (750 mg every 12 hours) resulted in a decrease in average atovaquone steady-state plasma concentration by 52% and an increase in average rifampin steady-state plasma concentration by 37%.(1)
Rifabutin has been shown to reduce atovaquone levels by 34%.(2)
REFERENCES:
1.Mepron (atovaquone) US prescribing information. GlaxoSmithKline November, 2006.
2.Malarone (atovaquone and proguanil hydrochloride) US prescribing information. GlaxoSmithKline December, 2008.
Posted by Amanda (Member # 14107) on :
I had to stop Rifampin because of emotional and other side effects (horrific insomnia). And like you it started literally 45 minutes after my first half dose.
One of my old pharmacist told me a lot of people complain about anxiety and/or serious depression on Rifampin. He said some side effects don't show up in clinical trials, so they aren't posted on the bottle. But once the drug has been taken by thousands of people, you begin to learn about many of the side effects not found during the trials...
Posted by seekhelp (Member # 15067) on :
In 3 days Rifampin literally took me the brink of insanity. I stopped. I was a nervous wreck. Can't deal with that.
Posted by asus (Member # 13881) on :
Rifampin makes my emotional state more unstable for sure. The thing I wonder is, if its really a "die off" from the bart, do people who take levaquin report the same?
Posted by Stacyb (Member # 13084) on :
Carly,
I have taken the same protocol as you and it can hit you hard at first so watch out.
I started with 300 mg of Rifampin and then increased after the first herx was almost gone. I got very dizzy/rocking feeling and had lots of anxiety. My sleep was worse too but it did go away and I had a ton of improvement after that, I started the Rif. and Zith together with the Plaq. then added the Mepron in after that and got really depressed and tired from the Mepron.
Posted by carly (Member # 14810) on :
Thanks for helping me to nail this down. I haven't spoken to my doctor yet, but I have intelligent questions to ask, thanks to you guys!
AliG, thanks for the detailed info. I was aware that there was an interaction. Your theory makes sense to me.
Amanda and Seek, that's the same situation I was fearing the other day, but not quite sure.
Asus, I took levaquin with virtually no reation at all. I think that led my doctor to wonder if bart was even present. (I tested neg.)
Is that because the levaquin wasn't hitting my bart? Is it because the rifampin is interacting with the mepron? Is it because I can't tolerate rifampin?
I will ask him these questions when I speak with him. I wonder if he'll have an answer.
Stacy,- I had the dizziness, too. That went away months ago, after years. Now it's back, thanks to rifampin. It came on strong and suddenly after taking it. Now it's mild, but it's there. How did you know to just ride it out??
Part of me wants to push through and see improvement, but I don't want to be foolish about it.
Some of the symptoms we've all become accustomed to living with every day make it hard to judge when something becomes serious.
I can't be the only one who feels this way!
Carly
Posted by Stacyb (Member # 13084) on :
Carly,
I never had the dizziness to the extent that I did until the Rifampin too and I was just determined I guess or naive. I cannot take Bactrim for Bart. as I am allergic to it and I was more fearful of the floroquinolones like Levaquin ect...then I was with the Rifampin. I had read enough side effects on both and so I took my chances and pushed through. I did talk to my LLMD though.
By the way I see you are from NY and so is my LLMD just wondering if we have the same one?
What helped me with the dizziness was going on Bicillin shots and major detox!!!!!!!!!
Posted by Stacyb (Member # 13084) on :
Carly,
I did get almost immediate relief from my heart issues too from Rifampin but had herxing GI issues. I guess that is how I knew it was a herx and not a side effect as I had horrible GI issue before the Rifampin. After a few weeks it went away.
Posted by WildCondor (Member # 434) on :
Rifampin made me lose my mind very quickly. Dizzy!! Within a few days whenever I turned my head, the whole Earth would spin, it was like motion sickness 24/7 and it failed big time. It interacts with many other meds and can cause instability like this with emotions. I went right off it. Call your doctor, let him/her know and they can advise.
Posted by carly (Member # 14810) on :
Stacy - GI herxing issues. Holy Cow. I just began having seizing GI pains yesterday - just like before I began treatment. This started days after I stopped taking it.
I'll send you a PM about the doctor.
Wild Condor - and those of you who had to stop the rifampin, how long did the effects linger?
I was on it for a week, I've been off it for about 5 days now and I think I'm still feeling some of its effects.
I haven't taken it since Thursday a.m. I spoke with the nurse Friday evening who said the doctor would call with instructions if he wants me to replace it with anything.
He hasn't called yet, if he even will. My next appt is in two weeks anyway. I'll find out soon what he thinks about my ability to even take rifampin.
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![[group hug]](graemlins/grouphug.gif)
Carly
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