does exercise support your immune system or does it help get rid of lyme?
i actually struggled, yes struggled, through 15 minutes on my elliptical today. i was breathing so hard when i finished i was gasping for air.
somebody told me i should be doing an HOUR, yes an HOUR, on that thing. no way, jose...
but i am determined to DO something and besides, exercise is cheap.
Posted by LAXlover (Member # 25518) on :
I think Dr. B says NOTHING like that at first, do weights instead. Check out the handbook for more in-depth info....
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- LAXlover is correct. Dr. B - and most other LLMDs and LL NDs say NOTHING like that.
Exercise definitions vary widely. Sounds like you've accepted some advice that is a bully to YOUR body at this time. Don't let exercise bully you, it should support you.
Struggling and then setting up the body for harsh payback can be abusive. That's a common theme with many. I've been there, too. Just whip this body into shape sort of thinking.
[To me, ignorant means, just not knowing or having a sense of it but ignoring what I don't want to know. I use this not as an insult to anyone but more for illustration.]
That can be ignorant and abusive. Ignorant in that there is just so much to consider and abusive in that if it's too much for us, well, it's just too much.
It took me a long time to get away from ignorant abuse regarding exercise. It took a long time to be able to enjoy movement that was slower.
Sometimes, I felt like I could bolt like a rabbit - I wanted to run, or walk fast to fly like the wind -- only to nearly be toppled over on my back far from home unable to even crawl back on my belly.
I thought I was being strong by pushing, but I was ignorant and abusive to myself. The psychology of that took years to come to light.
With lyme comes major ADRENAL DYSFUNCTION and MITOCHONDRIAL DYSFUNCTION, not to mention cardiac issues and liver stress. Hard exercise can make any of those worse and with those issues, the body simply has to find a less taxing way to move.
Movement, rather than exercise, is a more friendly word for me.
Move in a comfortable pace - and, yes, weight / strength training is much better than aerobics for many reasons for many.
(However, lifting weights can also stress already inflamed joints and tendons or irritate nerves for those with carpal tunnel issues, etc. Professional guidance by a LL trainer is best.)
[There are some who can keep up to some degree with aerobics if they were in shape to begin with and have clearance from there LLMD. It's an individual thing. But this thread is about someone who has trouble with that.]
First, the liver works very hard with exercise. For a stressed liver, aerobics can spill out toxins and cause even more of something akin to a "herxheimer" for those with lyme. The liver can do only so much at a time. Fast can be too furious for the liver.
There are many safe techniques that build strength and circulate oxygen:
PILATES
YOGA (not "Power")
QI GONG
TAI CHI
WALKING, WATER WALKING or Water Tai Chi (called something like Ahuna?)
REBOUNDING
ELIPTICAL (but of if used slowly, at a gentle rhythm -- don't wear yourself out)
DANCE around your living room, just to move - not to win any contest. It need not quality you for DWTS. Just move gently with joy.
BREATHE - even just deep diaphragmatic breathing helps circulate oxygen and move out some gunk, so to speak. This can be done often, anywhere, by anyone. Very calming but also uplifting.
It's better to do one minute a few times a day than a few minutes at a time if that clobbers you. -
Posted by Catgirl (Member # 31149) on :
I agree with Lax. Dr. Burrascano says no aerobics.
Here is some of Burrascano's exercise advice: . . . Burrascano's program:
1. Aerobic exercises are NOT allowed, not even low impact variety, until the patient has recovered.
2. Conditioning: work to improve strength and reverse the poor conditioning that results from Lyme, through a whole-body exercise program, consisting of light calisthenics and/or resistance training, using light resistance and many repetitions. This can be accomplished in exercise classes called "stretch and tone", or "body sculpture", or can be achieved in the gym with exercise machines or carefully with free weights (see cautions above).
3. Each session should last one hour. A gentle hour is preferable to a strenuous half-hour. If the patient is unable to continue for the whole hour, then decrease the intensity to allow him/her to do so.
4. Exercise no more often than every other day. The patient may need to start by exercising every 4th or 5th day initially, and as abilities improve, work out more often, but NEVER two days in a row. The nonexercise days should be spent resting. 5. This whole-body conditioning program is what is required to achieve wellness. A simple walking program will not work, and simply placing the patient on a treadmill or an exercise bike is not acceptable (except very briefly, as part of a warm-up), as aerobics can be damaging and must be avoided.
. . .
Burrascano's treatment protocol is also under the medical questions header on this website first selection posted by lymetoo). I read it weekly, as I can't remember anything (lyme brain).
Posted by randibear (Member # 11290) on :
believe me it was slow and barely moving this morning. no race to the finish for me.
i damaged my knee years ago and have to be careful as it can flare up.
but i feel like i'm freezing up i stay in one position so long.
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
But NOT DOING ANYTHING is even worse, in my opinion. I kept moving the whole time I was ill.
Maybe try two 10 min sessions a day, Randi.
--oops-- we posted at the same time!
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- Randi, you say: "it was slow and barely moving this morning."
you also wrote that you "actually struggled, yes struggled" - and "breathing so hard when i finished i was gasping for air." (end quote) -----
Then that is too much. Like TuTu suggests, if the exercise pace is okay but the time is too much, break it up.
Some doctors (for our population) say do half of what you think you can. But do it often.
If that has to be one minute, then it's one minute. It may be five. Stop BEFORE you have to drop. Mix it up with other movement, too.
Instinct and really honestly checking in with my body is a good help. Rather than what I want, I have to really sort of ask my body.
It can sound (or even feel) a little fractured but it's sort of like being in tune with an old jalopy on a trip across country. It's just paying attention to what it tells you.
And I just roll my eyes sometimes and giggle over how I differentiate what I want and what my body is telling me it can do for me - and try not to split up over that ;-) -
Posted by Haley (Member # 22008) on :
listen to your body. I have had times when I feel stronger and I can do more. Right now I do Pilates once a week. It takes about a week for my body to get back (but I have a butt kicker instructor )
In Dr. S's book, he says that the NK (natural killer cells) are decreased when you exercise so you need to let your body rest to let them build back up.
Posted by randibear (Member # 11290) on :
but here's my concern. i have an enlarged heart and high blood pressure.
when are the symptoms of that, like the shortness of breath, etc., causing the exercise intolerance? in other words, how do i know it's not the heart problems cropping up and not lyme??
i hope that makes sense...
Posted by Catgirl (Member # 31149) on :
Light weights.
More Burrascano to follow:
. . .
In addition, there is now evidence that a carefully structured exercise program may benefit T-cell function: this function will depress for 12 to 24+ hours after exercise, but then rebound. This T-cell depression is more pronounced after aerobics which is why aerobics are not allowed. The goal is to exercise intermittently, with exercise days separated by days of total rest, including an effort to have plenty of quality sleep. The trick is to time the exercise days to take advantage of these rebounds. For an example, begin with an exercise day followed by 3 to 5 rest days; as stamina improves, then fewer rest days will be needed in between workouts. However, because T-cell functions do fall for at least one day after aggressive exercises, be sure to never exercise two days in a row. Finally, an in intermittent exercise program, properly executed, may help to reset the HPA axis more towards normal. On the following page is an exercise prescription that details these recommendations.
. . .
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- Randi,
You are still recovering from pneumonia. It's probably not unusual for breathing with exercise to be a bit stressed for a while.
As for your question about the heart in regard to lyme and other conditions that involve chronically fatigued states: ----------------
Topic: To everyone with cardiac symptoms please read!
THREE HOUR VIDEO MD lecture series (free).
Not specifically about lyme but very relevant & addresses many of the cardiac issues of those with Chronic Fatigue diagnoses.
The sympathetic and the parasympathetic nervous systems are discussed - and how they affect the heart and blood pressure.
Other good detail about support supplements like CoQ10, d-Ribbose, etc.
--------------
The links below were presented to the CFS/CFIDS community. While some (many?) cases of CFS might be undiagnosed lyme, this information may be helpful to patients across the board.
Even if from lyme, it helps us understand how better to take care of ourselves while seeking treatment/resolution.
==================
You can watch the video - for free if you have fast speed internet.
More recently, physicist, physician, long-time ME/CFS researcher and clinician, and heart-transplant recipient Paul Cheney, M.D., Ph.D., has offered an alternative theory that a subset of ME/CFS patients suffer from a
diastolic cardiomyopathy, a problem with ventricular filling resulting from mitochondrial dysfunction and low ATP energy in the heart.
VIDEO: A three-hour talk by Dr. Cheney on diastolic cardiomyopathy and ME/CFS.
"CFS and Diastolic Cardiomyopathy" - Paul Cheney, M.D., Ph.D.
There are links to TWENTY articles on this topic at this link. Among those:
Hawthorn extract for treating chronic heart failure: meta-analysis of randomized trials.
Am J Med. 2003 Jun 1;114(8):665-74. [PDF Format]
=======
There is new research from a New Jersey team, authored by Doctors Arnold Peckerman, Benjamin Natelson et al., which found left-ventricular dysfunction following exertion and orthostatic stress in patients with myalgic encephalomyelitis/chronic fatigue syndrome. . . .
. . . In an NIH-funded study on impedance cardiography also linked . . . , Peckerman and Natelson found that low cardiac output correlated with symptom severity in ME/CFS. . . .
EXERCISE INTOLERANCE - MANY links about this in that thread. Just one reference from those: ------------------
Dr. A. Martin Lerner: " . . . Viral infection persists in the heart, causing left-ventricular dysfunction, producing exercise intolerance.
. . . "Exercise, in turn, worsens the cardiac dysfunction. "
- Lerner has seven articles at this link.
=====================================
Again, presented not to sadden, but if there is a dysfunction, treatment for underlying infections and employing support measures can make a difference.
the link to the Hawthorn research above holds hope. I feel so much better when I take that. -
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
)