I have a lot of things it could apply to, but I am most interested in it's anti-inflammatory properties (along with weight, gut health along with the antibacterial and anti parasite properties.
I was hoping to start a thread that is more for personal experiences. What has it helped with? Side effects/herxes? How long have you taken? At what dose? And what brand? did you start lower and build up?
Of course, as Marnie and Keebler always say, never start without consulting a llmd/nd.
Posted by GretaM (Member # 40917) on :
Hi Kudzu
I started berberine two weeks ago.
For inflammation in my feet and legs and also for weight loss. (I've started green tea phytosome as well at the same time)
I've been taking berberine HCL (indian barberry extract) 200mg per day.
The bottle says to take 2-3 times a day, (Total 400-600mg daily), but I wanted to start slow.
This is a great thread! Thank you for starting it.
Because I am doing this for inflammation, and I think weight gain is directly linked to inflammation, I am putting my weight here.
Gulp.
200 lbs.
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- My experiences: best pain relief I've found; anti-inflammatory and therefore, decreased swelling.
Also helps to strengthen & improve (decrease) seizure threshold and sensory startle reaction.
Helps to relieve very nicely, that deep all over body pain (previously misdiagnosed as "fibromyalgia") / all over inflammation.
HANDS - very much helps very much to stop hands' "trigger joints" (every single hand/finger joint for me "triggers" so terribly) . . . Berberine, I found out, keeps them from "catching" or "triggering" - and from being painful even when they are not catching.
This very nice aspect was not expected but just happened. Each time I've run out and been off it for a week or two (or a month), the trigger joints and body pain return. Then, when start back up on this, all that gets far better again. -
[ 09-02-2013, 02:28 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
BERBERINE – INFORMATIONAL LINKS SET -
Posted by Kudzuslipper (Member # 31915) on :
Keebler, sounds like you found a perfect fit. I am doing some more reading and am gonna try it. Hope it helps me like it helps you. Did you know how long it was before you noticed it helping?
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- Three days for the body pain to start lifting . . . maybe a week for me to really notice.
The "trigger" joints - just something I noticed after having first been on it for - oh, maybe 2 - 3 weeks - maybe a month. I don't recall when I made that connection but, with repeated stops and restarts, it's clear that it's a winner against the trigger joints.
Always after restarting the same pattern to decrease pain. Better after 3 days and much better after about a week and then stays there. -
Posted by Kudzuslipper (Member # 31915) on :
I am so inspired by your success with it Keebler-- especially the pain relief-- I would like to try it. I just ordered some. do you think I should start it before I start the zyth?
did you have any herxing with the berberine? did you start at the recommended dose or did you build up?
[ 09-05-2013, 10:03 PM: Message edited by: Kudzuslipper ]
Posted by map1131 (Member # 2022) on :
I've joined the berberine 400mg once daily. Just started Monday.
Decided to try the Swanson brand, I've been pleased with all their products, so we'll see.
If it can help my urinary issues, lower my cholesterol and lower my inflammation......I will be one happy camper.
Pam
Posted by Kudzuslipper (Member # 31915) on :
Pam, I am glad you wrote about swanson. I have been curious. certainly the best price out there. hope it helps you. let us know.
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- Sorry but I just don't have the energy or brain power to answer all your good questions. so I try to supply information from authors.
As for starting before zith schedul for end of month, yeah, there's a lot of time before that.
start ANY supplement slow and low.
yes, it can cause herx so be sure water, good food and common sense stay with you.
I do not recall any major herx reaction, although, the anti-oxidant nature of this may increase bladder frequency and urgency at first. Still, be sure to get plenty of water.
-------------------------
Generally, keep separate by 2-3 hours, both clock directions:
Rx
Supplements (herbs, vitamins, minerals)
Probiotics
-----------------
You will likely find other details here, be sure to read as much as you can. Best if you could consult a LL ND (although I know access is very limited for most due to location and budget).
[ 09-04-2013, 03:02 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posted by map1131 (Member # 2022) on :
Well one month on the Swanson Berberine 400 HCL. It has finally calmed down my urinary sx. TG
Sometimes I'm real slow......it just dawned on me today that this berberine has been causing a herx reaction in me for at least 3 weeks.
I've had some neuro stuff happening daily that I haven't had in years and years. Lots of brain inflammation, deep deep bone pain, crying bouts, brain fog, etc etc. Just herx like sx all day everyday. So reminded me of my abx early years, before abx turned into my enemy.
I've been so worried and just didn't recognize what was happening. This berberine is really acting like an anti-bacterial and anti-yeast. I wondered why I was so gassy and seemed to be releasing some pretty toxic smells.
Been wondering if I should be taking larger dosage. Dr K recommends 600-800. But I think for now, I'll just stay at 400 mg until it calms down, then up my dosage.
I believe my lyme bacteria load is very low from years of using rife, except for cyst forms of course. I've not had much success with rife for bart & babs so far.
Now that I'm aware of what is causing this....I'm hopeful.
Pam
KEEBLER- thanks for all you do in informing others of potential helpful products!!!! Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- Pam,
MARNIE with the one who brought this to our attention. I'd like to thank HER.
FWIW, I've had no herx reaction at all from Berberine.
While there is still plenty of pain that I can manage (and hope it still clears someday), the terrible nearly intolerable degree of pain reduced remarkably within days - after working up to the full dose - other things took longer.
No gas, smells or any of the other reactions as you report, better mood. Still, we all can react differently even to typical foods. There are many mitigating factors.
I have wondered, though, if Berberine may be a bit binding / constipating. So be sure to keep up with your magnesium. All the symptoms you report can be connected to magnesium deficiency.
FISH OIL, too, needs to be kept at a good level for all the symptoms you report.
Other Rx could be interacting. Other than NatureThroid, I take on Rx so interactions have not been on my radar.
If you happen to be taking any acetaminophen, that could be interacting. Acetaminophen BLOCKS all cells in the body from being able to use glutathione and blocks the liver from making it. That can increase pain and other toxicity reactions.
Just in case there may be some brand differences, this the brand I use: two capsules, 3x day, before meals. This brand also contain a mix of forms, and with boswellia, too.
Berberine does not last long in the body, so it's best to take about every 8 hours.
[ 10-03-2013, 03:18 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- GREEN TEA is also something I started at the same time, so that could be part of the help I feel and attributed mostly to Berberine. They seem to work very well together.
GREEN TEA - Links Set -
Posted by map1131 (Member # 2022) on :
I've found berberine to soften BM. It's odd how we all react so differently. But we're not all carrying the same bad guys.
Different strains, different viruses, parasites.
It's not a one thing fits all. I've got a great detox tea in frig. I'll pull it out to the countertop and add it in.
If it's not in my face, forget it. I went to Swanson site to see if they had lower mg to take through out the day? No, just 400mg.
I'll wait out with what's going on. I realize herxing, esp when your body is screaming for help, is not a good thing. I believe it's hitting on something that needs to go.
I've just not thought about the detoxing part. I had gotten complainant about detox. UTI stopped detox baths almost a year ago.
Now I know how and what to do. Rife detox freqs and some tea please.
I loved Marnie's advice. Needed a brain to understand her. You took it to layman's terms. Thanks to Marnie. With the search working, her great posts are there again.
Pam
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- You can divide the capsule. Berberine is very bitter but should not sting or irritate. I've done this as a mouth rinse. It clumps a bit in water and IS VERY bitter, yet, it will go down and just chase it with more water and some food.
You could stir a bit into any food, too. Just not the whole serving but a bite or two as it will be bitter, even in food but more tolerable. Very yellow, so be mindful to direct the powder where you want it to go.
That way, you can divide you dose, keep the other half in the capsule so you don't have to do the "bitter dance" more than once a day, eh? -
Posted by Kudzuslipper (Member # 31915) on :
I got all stuffy and allergic feeling an hour or so after taking the berberine each day for 5 days... each time was a little worse.
And then I got extremely achy (but it coincided with the time I usually flare at the end/beginning of each month.
It is also fall allergy season here. so I may try it again in a month and see if the pattern repeats. so sad. I had so much hope for Berberine.
but alas, I had the same reaction to Curcumin. me and natural don't seem to get along. so , so , so sad.
Posted by Kudzuslipper (Member # 31915) on :
I got all stuffy and allergic feeling an hour or so after taking the berberine each day for 5 days... each time was a little worse.
And then I got extremely achy (but it coincided with the time I usually flare at the end/beginning of each month.
It is also fall allergy season here. so I may try it again in a month and see if the pattern repeats. so sad. I had so much hope for Berberine.
but alas, I had the same reaction to Curcumin. me and natural don't seem to get along. so , so , so sad.
Posted by Carol in PA (Member # 5338) on :
Kudzuslipper said, "And then I got extremely achy (but it coincided with the time I usually flare at the end/beginning of each month.)"
Berberine seems to affect many parts of the body. It has reduced body pain and headache. My reflux is under control, and I no longer wake up aspirating stomach contents.
It also affects the hormone that reduces saliva and urine output when you sleep. I no longer drool when sleeping, and I don't wake up with such a full bladder that I can't make it to the bathroom.
. Edited to update the Berberine link to GoodState.com. Also, search for GoodState brand of Berberine at Amazon.com.
They presently have Berberine HCl 400 mg with clear capsules at an excellent price, $17.00 for 120 capsules.
It looks like GoodState.com stopped offering free samples of the Glycox Berberine.
[ 11-23-2013, 07:20 PM: Message edited by: Carol in PA ]
Posted by Razzle (Member # 30398) on :
I love Andrographis, which contains berberine. The combination of Flagyl and Andrographis has given me more improvement than anything else I've tried for Lyme/Bart., and a very savvy LLMD told me this was a great combo.
Carol, thanks for sharing about berberine helping with reducing urine at night...thanks!
Posted by map1131 (Member # 2022) on :
razzle, no thank you on flagyl. I've been down that road and it's was the darkest scariest road of my last 15 yrs.
It would kill alright, including putting me under with all the bad guys. Some people take flagyl and improve, others it's just tooooo toxic for.
One man's medicine can be another man's poison.
Thanks for all the berberine suggestions. I can handle herxing, just not the never ending herx daily with abx.
I need to practice what I preach. detox detox detox #1 no matter what protocol one is doing.
Pam
Posted by Razzle (Member # 30398) on :
Sorry...I wasn't suggesting anyone else do what I was doing, just was sharing that I thought the Andrographis, as a berberine-containing herb, was good...
Posted by Marnie (Member # 773) on :
Take a close look at how berberine effects the liver enzymes and how one of them (inhibiting) relates to D3.
Above link...look under "Things to note" for the liver enzymes noted.
Then search for the links between the liver enzymes and D3.
2013...we're learning!
BTW...sulfate or chloride form of Berberine...for complicated reasons, I SUSPECT the chloride form is best.
Dosage/timing...all TBD!!!
I THINK it is working on several levels.
GO SLOW...and of course...run it by your doc (!) AND your pharmacist if on anything else (Rxs, supplements)...see red caution notice in link provided.
Bb looks to like, need, want ongoing inflammation.
Get inflammation down AND hit Bb.
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
Marnie .. just ask Keebler to open her PM's for you. I'll delete my message to her.
Posted by girl (Member # 18022) on :
I would just like to say these are the shortest posts I've seen by Keebler and I find them much more pleasant to read.
Posted by Marnie (Member # 773) on :
Berberine inmpacts (inhibits)2 enzymes which we normally think are only present in the liver...they are not.
- yes, good old grapefruit juice (“inhibition through fruit ingestion”). BTW…oral Ketoconazole (is listed as a strong inhibitor too) = anti-fungal (Nizoral) comes with serious adverse reactions…not so if used topically.
Remember grapefruit juice diet? Humm...curious.
The other enzyme:
CYP2D6…curious that Fluoxetine (also known by the tradenames Prozac, Sarafem, Ladose and Fontex) is listed as a strong inhibitor. My sis has been on the highest level of Prozac allowed and never developed “neuro” lyme.
But fairly recently, she tested very low in vitamin D.
When reading (Wikipedia links) about those enzymes...notice the gender difference. Another reason why more women are "autoimmune"?
While MS and lyme differ in many ways - initial triggers, both are "autoimmune" reactions to proteins = antigens.
And "Google": MS berberine.
Posted by ms dixie (Member # 40818) on :
Depression can be caused EASILY with flagyl!!!
Posted by Marnie (Member # 773) on :
The KIND of berberine (chloride or sulfate) and the dosage taken and the timing (6 hours apart) may make a HUGE difference.
As well as one's own "genetic" predispositions.
We also have to be VERY aware of potential interactions with other meds/supplements when taking berberine.
Do NOT try it on your own...need expert help to determine the above.
Posted by map1131 (Member # 2022) on :
Oh I ran it by my PCP. But not till after I had started it. I actually muscle tested for the 400mg dosage.
My body therapists (nun) muscle tested me for it and it was yes. When I increased to 2nd dose, again I used my angel therapist.
My PCP brought it up on his iphone as I was talking about it....he wanted to make sure it was okay with all my meds. He was really impressed with all he was seeing on it.
Everyone is different and what's been great for me....doesn't mean it would great for all. One man's medicine can be another man's poison.
My cholesterol was 282 6 mths ago and it went down to 211, along with all my numbers improving. It's on my list of supps note for cardio too.
If my numbers improve again in 6 mths I will tell my cardio my secret. He recommended Red yeast rice because I refuse statins.
RYR muscle tested poorly for me over a year ago. After the holidays I'm adding in my 3rd berberine daily. Well, I will muscle test to make sure my body is accepting of it.
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