posted
I was just wondering if only lyme could cause bell's palsy or could it also be from babesia or bartonella? I'm not asking about viruses but more about co-infections... I've had bell's for more than a year now, could it get better with treatment although it has been there for so long? I suffer a lot from cranial nerves pain, if anyone has sth to suggest, feel free... Thanks
Posts: 723 | From Montreal | Registered: Oct 2010
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TF
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
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posted
Bells palsy is a symptom of lyme disease. It is not a symptom of babesiosis or bartonella or any other coinfection.
I had a mild bells palsy for about 3 years prior to my diagnosis. It went away on its own one day. I just woke up and it was gone. My face was back to normal.
My mild case was bilateral, meaning on both sides, and is called "facial drooping." It felt like gravity was pulling my face down. And, it made me look like I was scowling all the time. It gave me deep lines on either side of my mouth because it was pulling down my cheeks.
So, lyme can let go of your facial nerves at any time and the palsy will be gone. This can happen even if you aren't treating lyme, like what happened in my case. Don't give up hope.
Posts: 9931 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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TF
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
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posted
Also, I read cases written by a lyme doctor about patients who had had deep facial lines their entire adult life. These "lines" (a mild bells palsy) disappeared with lyme treatment.
So, even people who have had this for 20 years can get rid of it.
Posts: 9931 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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TerryK
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posted
I had very classic Bell's Palsy with sudden paralysis on one side of my face. My neuro symptoms of Lyme started 2 weeks later. I couldn't move anything. It got better with ayurvedic treatment, but I still have residual.
I haven't seen much improvement with any lyme treatment protocol. One of my eye nerves incorrectly regrew to my nose, so I don't think treatment will ever be able to correct that.
I've always wondered if any of the co's could cause, but I think it would be so hard to ferret out what causes what, really.
-------------------- Lyme, Bart, possible Babs Currently on IV Doxy, Bactrim, Zithromax, Nystatin, Mepron Been on nearly every antibiotic since 10/09
posted
what do you mean your nerve regrew to your nose? How long have you been treating?
Posts: 723 | From Montreal | Registered: Oct 2010
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posted
NO IT IS NOT. Mycoplasma pneumoniae can cause Bell's Palsy! It did in me, and if that can do it, I see no reason why other species cannot, as well.
Bell's palsy on the LEFT side is more suggestive of Lyme disease; mine happened first on the right.
...Mycoplasma pneumoniae is a common pathogen of the respiratory tract causing pharyngitis, tracheobronchitis or pneumonia. Neurological complications are the most frequent extrapulmonary manifestation. So far, only a few case reports suggested an association between cranial nerve palsy and M. pneumoniae infection. Patients with a BP...were tested serologically for the presence of antibodies against Borrelia burgdorferi, herpes viruses (HSV-1/2, VZV) and M. pneumoniae. . . . Ninety-one consecutive patients could be included. Fifteen patients showed a reactivation of a VZV ( n=12) or of a HSV-1 ( n=3) infection. In six cases the immunoblot revealed specific antibody bands for B. burgdorferi. In 24 patients (26.4%) a seroconversion of M. pneumoniae could be detected. Only two patients complained of mild respiratory symptoms. According to our results, M. pneumoniae is frequently associated with Bell's palsy. Thus, a routine screening for this pathogen, even in the absence of respiratory symptoms, is necessary.
little olive
-------------------- Myalgic encephalomyelitis, 2002 | Viral onset, following Hep B vaccine Lyme since '06 | Bartonella since '08 (cured) | Mycoplasma pneumoniae since '08 IGeneX: IgM 31IND 34IND 41+ | IgG 39IND 58+ 41+++ IgG deficiencies and MTHFR 677TT mutations Posts: 512 | From USA | Registered: Sep 2010
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D Bergy
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posted
Anything that irritates or inflames the nerves can cause Bell's Palsy, but Lyme is often one of the triggers.
My wife had Bell's Palsy early on, but it went away with further treatment.
Dan
Posts: 2919 | From Minnesota | Registered: Aug 2006
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posted
D Bergy, can I ask you what was the treatement that got rid of it? was it IV or orals?... Thx!
Posts: 723 | From Montreal | Registered: Oct 2010
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D Bergy
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posted
This was in the beginning, and I think we were rotating between using Cumanda and Samento and added Rife frequency treatments shortly after that.
Since then we have used mostly Rife frequency treatments, but I have added Cumanda recently to keep Bart at bay in between frequency treatments.
She has felt sensations in that area a couple of times since, quite a while ago, but has not developed Bell's Palsy again.
Bart is the bigger problem now although it is much less than a couple of months ago. Lyme has been reduced to a minimum.
Dan
Posts: 2919 | From Minnesota | Registered: Aug 2006
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posted
Your nerve endings regrow after the BP, and they can grow to the wrong place. My lower eyelid is now attached somehow to my right nostril, meaning when I flare or otherwise move my nostril, it moves my eyelid. I joke that it's my cool party trick.
-------------------- Lyme, Bart, possible Babs Currently on IV Doxy, Bactrim, Zithromax, Nystatin, Mepron Been on nearly every antibiotic since 10/09
posted
hum, wow:-) well, I think Bell's is just due to bacteria invading the nerve, so i guess if you can kill them, you don't have it anymore...but how do you access the bb in the nerve, that's the most difficult part... I don't really understand this "nerve regrowth" thing, I think the nerve does not regrow, either it is partially paralysed or it is functionning... would we talk about vein regrowth?... it doesn't really make sense, except for people with MS (in fact lyme) who are told they need their nerves to regrow... blabla...and nerve sheaths are made of... guess what?... yep of collagen... and that's what bb likes the most...so if bb is killed, the nerve can heal itself.
Posts: 723 | From Montreal | Registered: Oct 2010
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"Synkinesis is theorized to be the effect of abnormal nerve regeneration, where some of the healing facial nerve fibers can actually implant themselves into the wrong muscles. Think of the facial nerve as a telephone cable. If you cut through a telephone cable you see many different color-coded wires. The telephone repair person can repair the broken cable by reconnecting the wires according to their color. The facial nerve cable is about the diameter of a strand of thin spaghetti. Within that strand are between 6000-7000 different nerve fibers (wires) which conduct the electrical signal from the brain to the facial muscles causing them to contract. They are very delicate and obviously have no color-coding. Inflammation from the Bell's palsy can harm, or "break" some of these very frail fibers. In time the damaged fibers heal. They regenerate at the rate of about 1-2mm per day. But there's no mechanism that directs these fibers back into their original muscles. The brain sends the signal for the muscle to contract thinking the nerve fiber is still connected to the original muscle, but instead, the nerve may be lodged in an entirely different muscle, which then contracts at the same time."
-------------------- Lyme, Bart, possible Babs Currently on IV Doxy, Bactrim, Zithromax, Nystatin, Mepron Been on nearly every antibiotic since 10/09
posted
yup, I like the fact that it is "theorized":-) so nothing really proven huh?...
Posts: 723 | From Montreal | Registered: Oct 2010
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posted
Seriously, you're kind of being an @ss. I'm sorry if you don't buy it. But if you do ANY research on Bell's Palsy, you will find that Synkinesis is very real and has to do with nerve regeneration.
-------------------- Lyme, Bart, possible Babs Currently on IV Doxy, Bactrim, Zithromax, Nystatin, Mepron Been on nearly every antibiotic since 10/09
posted
And maybe I'm misinterpreting what you're saying...
But even if you're saying that it might just be Lyme, I don't buy that. I've known from the beginning that I likely would not get the function back from my eye and nose being connected. It would be nearly impossible to explain why my nose makes my eye move without nerve regeneration theory.
-------------------- Lyme, Bart, possible Babs Currently on IV Doxy, Bactrim, Zithromax, Nystatin, Mepron Been on nearly every antibiotic since 10/09
quote:Originally posted by little_olive: NO IT IS NOT. Mycoplasma pneumoniae can cause Bell's Palsy! It did in me, and if that can do it, I see no reason why other species cannot, as well.
Bell's palsy on the LEFT side is more suggestive of Lyme disease; mine happened first on the right.
...Mycoplasma pneumoniae is a common pathogen of the respiratory tract causing pharyngitis, tracheobronchitis or pneumonia. Neurological complications are the most frequent extrapulmonary manifestation. So far, only a few case reports suggested an association between cranial nerve palsy and M. pneumoniae infection. Patients with a BP...were tested serologically for the presence of antibodies against Borrelia burgdorferi, herpes viruses (HSV-1/2, VZV) and M. pneumoniae. . . . Ninety-one consecutive patients could be included. Fifteen patients showed a reactivation of a VZV ( n=12) or of a HSV-1 ( n=3) infection. In six cases the immunoblot revealed specific antibody bands for B. burgdorferi. In 24 patients (26.4%) a seroconversion of M. pneumoniae could be detected. Only two patients complained of mild respiratory symptoms. According to our results, M. pneumoniae is frequently associated with Bell's palsy. Thus, a routine screening for this pathogen, even in the absence of respiratory symptoms, is necessary.
little olive
I thought M. pneumoniae just affects the lungs. I'm wondering whether Lyme bacteria is there as well, causing the palsy, and it's not being found in testing.
I guess I'm asking a medical question - how could a mycoplasma that's supposed to affect the lungs also get to the cranial nerves?
Posts: 13116 | From San Francisco | Registered: May 2006
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posted
BHealthyNow I'm just trying to find an explanation that is less desperate (an more likely to be...) than just "oh it will always be there"... because then, one could say the same about the whole illness... But I guess if you don't experience pain there, that's the most important...
Posts: 723 | From Montreal | Registered: Oct 2010
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posted
Good question Robin123, I think they are finding that sometimes neuralgia is caused by venous compression, so maybe, if M Pneumonia could cause venous inflammation, it would explain it, but that doesn't explain how Mpn would travel from the lungs to elsewhere...
Posts: 723 | From Montreal | Registered: Oct 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Robin123: I thought M. pneumoniae just affects the lungs. I'm wondering whether Lyme bacteria is there as well, causing the palsy, and it's not being found in testing.
I guess I'm asking a medical question - how could a mycoplasma that's supposed to affect the lungs also get to the cranial nerves?
Hi Robin, that is a very good question.
I think it helps if you consider mycoplasma to be like.. Strep. Sure, usually you get an upper respiratory illness, you take antibiotics so it doesn't become serious, and then move on. But sometimes, that doesn't happen, and the strep bacteria can cause all sorts of neurological ailments. Mycoplasma infections can work in the same way--it usually causes walking pneumonia, but it can do so much more than that!
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