posted
Now what do I do? I think my body is telling me to try again. It has been only 1 1/2 days since the herx ended and I'm feeling pretty darn good. Joints feel better than they have in a long time. Any suggestions on this?? I do realize that I should probably cut the dose in half next time. I haven't herxed like this since the beginning of my treatment last May 2010.
Story: I took a break from my antibiotics beginning December 13 because I was on vacation in Spain and wanted to try some of their wine :-) AND I DID!!! My plan was to begin antibiotic treatment again Jan 2. Well on Jan 1 I decided to try an olive leaf extract pill that my daughter takes every day without problems for yeast.
WELL.... within hours I wasn't feeling so well. My stomach area was not right and I was thirsty. I woke up several times during the night to drink some water. I was nauseous (SP) and didn't want to eat. My body was craving water, I guess to help flush my system. I spent the entire next day in bed or on the couch with muscle and joint aches and my usual herx feeling of being "run over by a truck"!!
Called my LLMD yesterday and they said that they recommend OLE with chronic viruses and not to take the same time with antibiotics. I did test for EBV IgG and positive and HHV-6 IgG positive last May. HHV-6 was at 11.11 with positive being over 1.0. Was not treated for these. Was told that if HHV06 was 19+ it would be problem. The several EBV were 4.60, 1.23, and 1.22 with positive being over 1.10.
So am I hitting Lyme or one of these viruses?? How can I know?? This Lyme & Co is driving me crazy.
How long should I do this before going back on my antibiotic meds?? suggestions??
Thanks all!!
-LAXlover
-------------------- LAXlover Posts: 371 | From Northern Baltimore Area | Registered: Apr 2010
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- OLE can be wonderful but it can pack a punch. Sorry you had that experience. Things to consider:
� You say you were on vacation in Spain on Dec. 13 but it is not clear if you were still there or back home. Either way, international travel can take a huge toll on the body in many ways. Travel strain itself, different foods, different schedules, etc.
� How much time between the wine and the OLE? Even if a week or two, that can still make it harder for the liver & stomach to take on a strong supplement.
� Did you take the first OLE with food - and non-spicy or greasy food, or was it on an empty stomach? Neutral food is good when taking something new.
No need to answer but these are just some of the considerations. Still, yes, just one can trigger a herx. Don't give up on OLE entirely. It can still be a good tool for you - but there are things that can make it easier. Your LLMD's guidance is good.
In general keep these categories separate by several hours :
Rx
Supplements
Probiotics -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Note that the White Tiger detailed below formula also contains ingredients that help the body process OLE. If taking OLE as a single agent, other liver support (to help move "stagnant waste") is usually necessary. --------------------------------
-------------- An Olive Leaf formula (that contains Terminalia chebula):
My ND (naturopathic doctor) recommended MYROLEA B. Most naturopathic doctors and acupuncturists know about the Seven Forest formulas. As this is a combination formula, there are ingredients included to help the body with "clearing heat" and metabolizing toxins.
Myrolea-B (White Tiger) is a simple formulation of highly concentrated extracts from four Chinese herbs and one Western herb.
The Chinese herbs include forsythia and lonicera, two of the key ingredients of Ilex 15 (and the main antiviral ingredients of Yin Qiao Jie Du Pian), thus boosting the dosage of these essential ingredients.
Myrolea-B also contains the antiviral agents scute (huangqin) and terminalia (hezi). The Western herb in this formulation is olive leaf, which is one of the primary anti-viral herbs derived from the European tradition.
SHUANGHUANGLIAN: Potent Anti-Infection Combination of Lonicera, Forsythia, and Scute - by Subhuti Dharmananda, Ph.D., Director, Institute for Traditional Medicine - 2003
Shuanghuanglian (SHL for short) is a modern formula that was devised in the 1960s to treat a variety of infections. It is comprised of the alcohol-water extracts of three herbs: lonicera (shuanghua, often called jinyinhua), scute (huangqin), and forsythia (lianqiao). . . .
. . . One of the early preparations of the SHL was a tablet made of equal proportions of the extracts of each herb. This was used to treat leptospirosis, a disorder caused by a spirochete bacteria, related to the organism that causes Lyme disease.
Leptospirosis causes initial symptoms of fever and chills, headache, and muscle ache (especially in the shoulders); these are consistent with "flu-like" symptoms described for the onset of many acute infections.
In a 1971 report, the formula was described as being made in 500 mg tablets derived from 3.7 grams of the crude herbs, and being administered in doses of 10-15 tablets (thus, equivalent to the extract of 37-55 grams of herbs) every 6 hours (1), a very high dosage.
. . . Recently, Shuanghuanglian has been applied successfully to treatment of Coxsackie B3,
. . . The general indications for SHL . . . are "relieving the exterior syndrome, clearing away heat and toxic material," and its indications are "treatment of fever, cough, and sore throat that arise from wind-heat syndrome."
It is said to have "a good action in treating upper respiratory tract infection, tonsillitis, laryngopharyngitis, pneumonia, acute enteritis, viral dysentery, etc., when caused by virus or bacterial infection."
- full article at link above.
===================
Detail from two of the most reputable sources of OLE:
Die-off effects -- Olive leaf use causes the death of microbes. The liver, kidneys, intestines and skin are therefore tested to their limits, to deal with, and remove them. This causes Herxheimers Reaction, which can have a variety of symptoms, but basically makes one feel ill or under the weather due to a treatment's effect upon the body.
Thus, "die-off," referred to in medicine as the "HERXHEIMER reaction," occurs when the olive leaf components kills large numbers of harmful germs rather quickly. Then, the patient's membranes absorb toxic products from these dead microorganisms. . . .
See details at link for:
� Safety Precautions and � Known Drug Interactions
SEAGATE Olive Leaf Extract - also see their menu for all their OLE products, including nasal spray, personal spray, etc.
Excerpt:
Side Effects:
Olive leaves have been used safely for thousands of years. The only known side-effect is the possibility of a HERXHEIMER reaction, an allergic response caused by the rapid die-off of fungi that release toxins which may temporarily cause a brief allergic reaction, lasting for several days.
. . . Are there any contraindications with Olive Leaf Extract?
No contraindications with other drugs have been observed.
�� However, Olive Leaf Extract should not be taken with antibiotics produced from yeast / fungus or along with additional amino acids other than those received in your everyday foods. They might cross out each other's effectiveness. . . .
[poster's note: as nearly all antibiotics are now synthesized, this is not such a concern but good to have awareness just in case.]
- Full article at link above.
===================================
PROBIOTICS still need to be taken. Take several hours away from OLE (and from all supplements and also from Rx). OLE will negate probiotics if taken too closely together. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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momintexas
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 23391
posted
I don't know if there is really a way to tell what the OLE is hitting.
I recently had the same experience as you though and I took at 250 mg capsule and opened it and dumped half out before taking it.
After about an hour it knocked my socks off!! I took it again the next day to be sure that's what was causing it and had the same thing happen.
I'm assuming it's hitting viruses bc I also have high viral counts.
Posts: 1408 | From Tx | Registered: Nov 2009
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