posted
I thought I recalled someone mentioning a while back that the heat from taking hot baths actually kills Lyme and causes some people to herx.
It had something to do with either the heat itself or the increase in oxygen due to the elevated heart rate from the hot bath.
Is there anything to this?
-------------------- -chaps �Listen to the bell, Borrelia. It tolls for thee!� Posts: 631 | From A little place called, "we'll see." | Registered: Apr 2010
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posted
All of this is from memory, but this is what I have read and from personal experience.
Heat does inded kill many microbes. Isn't this the basis for the body temp rising when ill?
As I recall, before penicillin, some long term syphillis patients had been cured of their illness after contracting malaria and running a very high fever. So it appeared that the heat from the fever killed the syphillis spirochete.
It was reported in the medical literature, but then the discovery of penicillin came along, and the "heat" cure or therapy became forgotten.
I have heard that some lyme patients, desperate to get well, have actually contracted malaria on purpose in hopes of killing the lyme spirochete. I have not heard or read of any successes.
I believe that I read something by Dr. K(?), in which he said that he did not think that we could heat this bug up enough to kill it. The reason being that it could still survive at temps of 105-106 degrees, which is really pushing it for permanent damage or death to the patient.
I think I have also read somewhere that the lyme spirochete has a "heat shock" protein that protects it from heat. At least any heat that a human could safely stand.
For several years, I went to a local gym that had a sauna and sat in it 5 or 6 times a week. I let it get as hot as I could stand and for as long as I could stand. I always felt better after the sauna, but it in no way cured my lyme.
Other people have reported feeling better or other results from using an infrared sauna, which is different from the type of sauna I used at the gym.
As I said, all of this is from memory, but I do not believe that heat is a miracle cure for this illness. But with the possibility of different strains, perhaps some people can kill some of these bugs with high heat.
Jeff
Posts: 233 | From ft. myers, florida | Registered: Apr 2004
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sixgoofykids
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 11141
posted
I don't think you can be exposed to enough heat to kill ALL of the Lyme, but my LLMD was of the opinion that the sauna did kill some of the Lyme.
He talked about at some point using my sauna along with Tindamax as a plan of attack. He said the sauna can chase the Lyme to the cyst form, so he'd use Tindamax in conjunction with the sauna. We never did this therapy, but it was one we discussed.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
The reason I asked is that I took a sauna today, hotter than usual and a couple of hours later got that headache that you get when you herx. I was wondering if it was an actual herx or something else. I guess it's a possibility.
Thanks for the input.
-------------------- -chaps �Listen to the bell, Borrelia. It tolls for thee!� Posts: 631 | From A little place called, "we'll see." | Registered: Apr 2010
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posted
chaps, I have had some other medical setbacks that prevent me getting out and going to the gym now. But if I were able to, I would definitely still be doing it.
As I said, I don't think it's a miracle cure, but it definitely was something that made me feel better temporarily. And I can also say that I sometimes had those headaches that you speak of.
I never knew if it was a herx or not or just a reaction from being in the high heat. And mine were almost always from letting it get really hot.
At the very least, if you are taking antibiotics, I absolutely think that the heat helps the antibiotics penetrate throughout the body better.
Posts: 233 | From ft. myers, florida | Registered: Apr 2004
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
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posted
- Be VERY careful with heat. Some lyme patients can handle it but many simply cannot and some get very ill from heat.
There is no way to get the body hot enough to kill lyme and can also cause spirochetes to convert to the cyst form as a defense.
Yet, SWEATING can help the body detox. Still, a WARM bath or LOW HEAT infrared sauna can work much better and safer than High Heat options.
Warmth also helps circulation - and that increased oxygen being circulated can help kill infection. Still, WARMTH will do just fine for that. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Abxnomore
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 18936
posted
Yes, the spirochete is killed by prolonged exposure to high heat.
Julius Wagner-Jauregg won The Nobel Prize in Physiology of Medicine in 1927 by establishing that the spirochete that caused syphilis, which is closly related to borellia, died when patients were infected with malaria and subject to high fevers.
Of course, 50% of his patients died from malaria so no one is using this protocol for Lyme.
Presently, I do not believe there is any kind of heat therapy being used for lyme but ICHT, which was performed in Italy using DNP eradicated lyme and co-infections from my body was a intracelluar heat therapy but did not invoke a central nervous system response so that the patient never experienced a fever.
The patients metabolic rate was increased, I believe 3x it's normal rate, by way of using DNP causing the body to create intracelluar heat instead of energy.
Even before I did the treatment I took very hot baths daily with epson salts, especially while I was on IV, with the belief that the hot baths would kill off some ketes.
Posts: 5191 | From Lyme Zone | Registered: Jan 2009
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posted
Oh, I'll definitely be careful with the sauna.
While heat may do something to Lyme, it doesn't strike me as being very safe in comparison to some of the other natural alternatives.
I'm not on abx, BTW.
-------------------- -chaps �Listen to the bell, Borrelia. It tolls for thee!� Posts: 631 | From A little place called, "we'll see." | Registered: Apr 2010
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posted
Heat will kill anything - the question is how much?
When i first got lyme i was co-infected with babesia. I ran a fever for 7 days that literally peaked above 105 degrees.
It did not kill my lyme. i was sick with definite lyme symptoms well after my fever broke.
So yes heat will kill lyme. But i will likely kill you first.
Posts: 339 | From Outer Space | Registered: Aug 2009
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Pinelady
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Member # 18524
posted
I soaked in early treatment at least once a day. I could not get the water hot enough.
As the nerves wake up and you have die off it will make you feel a lot worse...
They are right when they say be careful...You can burn yourself by not being able to tell just how hot it is.
Now I have been able to crank it down to normal temp and it feels norm.
Epsom Salts help pull the poisons as well as other attributes. I have gone thru a lot so if you can buy it in bulk to save it is worth it.
I also used loads of lemon scrubs and ginger root for pain.
As you get further along in treatment you may have massive and thick peel which to me is a good sign you are getting them out of the skin.
Rinse in as cool a temp. as you can stand.
I know it is a painful thought but it worked to help wake my nerves up. Esp. those who have been cold for so long. And many times I had to crawl out.
As you get more energy, you can increase to what you feel you need to do. I have done 3 soaks a day for pain.
I also took a pitcher of lemon water/Stevia with me and tried to drink it all.
-------------------- Suspected Lyme 07 Test neg One band migrating in IgG region unable to identify.Igenex Jan.09IFA titer 1:40 IND IgM neg pos 31 +++ 34 IND 39 IND 41 IND 83-93 + DX:Neuroborreliosis Posts: 5850 | From Kentucky | Registered: Dec 2008
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posted
i read you would have to run a 107 fever for 24 hrs to kill all the lyme in you, but you will most likely do some kind of damage to your body, if you survive that is.
-------------------- 3 months Doxy 8 months of Tetra 7 months of Biaxin/Plaq. 4 months Doxy/Biaxin/Plaq. 5 months Biaxin/Plaq. Back on Doxy/Biax/Plaq On the road to recovery. Trying to make people Lyme Aware....... Posts: 289 | From R.I. | Registered: Jun 2009
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Abxnomore
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posted
You wouldn't survive, very unlikely. Fever therapy is dangerous! But yes the spirochete would be killed.
Posts: 5191 | From Lyme Zone | Registered: Jan 2009
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posted
Don't worry folks, I'm not considering using heat as a treatment modality.
I was just trying to figure out if the heat caused my headache. I suspect that it had a lot to do with it, but just how, I don't know.
Don't know whether it's a herx, or an effect that the heat had on blood vessels, sinus cavities, or what.
I even wonder if it stirred up any mercury, but I'm guessing that's unlikely.
It's weird, it started in the back of the head/neck on the right side yesterday. During the night it seemed to move to the right side and affect pretty much the whole left side of the head.
I'll tell ya what, I'm not going to do that again. I'm going to take it easier with these saunas from now on.
-------------------- -chaps �Listen to the bell, Borrelia. It tolls for thee!� Posts: 631 | From A little place called, "we'll see." | Registered: Apr 2010
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D Bergy
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Member # 9984
posted
I noticed that when my wife was ill with a high fever, her symptoms were gone for a month.
At that time, that was the longest she had gone without any Lyme related symptoms.
Heat kills some of it, but not all of it.
Dan
Posts: 2924 | From Minnesota | Registered: Aug 2006
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posted
Ok, it is my understanding that spirochetes do not like the heat and the heat draws them out from where they are "hiding" and draws them back into the bloodstream, where they can be attacked by the antibiotics. I used to take my antibiotics, wait 20 minutes and then get into the tub or sauna. That is what makes the heat treatments effective. Infrared sauna always makes me feel worse for a few hours and then better for the next few days. Plus, it helps remove toxins from the body. Even hot, hot baths.
Reading this reminds me that I need to get back into this habit and really add this back into my protocol. It really did help.
This came from an Italian (yes, Italy) Lyme Dr that a very good friend of mine knows.
Posts: 114 | From Atlanta, GA | Registered: May 2009
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posted
I went to an alternative Dr. several months ago and was given some nutritional IVs containing among other things, vitamin C which is known to kill Lyme when given IV.
During the infusion, I felt the same kind of headache I felt yesterday, back of the neck and up a little. That I'm sure was a Lyme herx.
When this thing last night spread up around to the left side of the head to the left eye, that's what made me nervous.
At this moment, it is 98% gone and I didn't take anything for it except I drank plenty of water, so I'm glad for that.
-------------------- -chaps �Listen to the bell, Borrelia. It tolls for thee!� Posts: 631 | From A little place called, "we'll see." | Registered: Apr 2010
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