posted
I did the IV heavy metal testing today and have to collect urine for 6 hours.
Just curious if anyone has ever gotten a normal back when testing for heavy metals? Just wondering if they find issues w/ everyone and then recommend treatment or if there are truly people whose samples come back w/out concerns? Would be nice! Not sure how much I can commit to doing any therapy for it if it does come back as a concern.
Thanks for input!
Posts: 376 | From New York | Registered: Jan 2011
| IP: Logged |
seekhelp
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 15067
posted
I don't have personal experience, but I'd bet these docs ALWAYS find issues in people. Posts: 7545 | From The 5th Dimension - The Twilight Zone | Registered: Mar 2008
| IP: Logged |
sammy
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 13952
posted
I've been tested 3 times for heavy metals over the past couple years. Twice with the urine DMSA challenge and once by hair sample. All 3 tests have come back clean.
When you get your test results back you could take them to another doctor for a second opinion before starting any strong chelation protocols.
Posts: 5237 | From here | Registered: Nov 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
Good to know! Thanks. I don't want to be suspicious but would be so surprised if they didn't find an issue. i really don't want to have to do chelation if it isn't necessary. It would be a lot of time and money plus money for a babysitter. Hoping it comes back OK. Good to know yours came back OK Sammy!
Posts: 376 | From New York | Registered: Jan 2011
| IP: Logged |
posted
I took my daughter to a LLMD that also works with autism. From what I can tell, it is common in the biomedical autism community to treat for heavy metals.
He did not recommend treatment for my daughter beyond the supplements she was on. He said she was a little high in one area, but her results looked good, compared to his typical patient.
He already had her on HMD.
Posts: 984 | From US | Registered: Dec 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
Good to know JKMom! Thanks!
Posts: 376 | From New York | Registered: Jan 2011
| IP: Logged |
momlyme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 27775
posted
You don't have to do the IV chelation which would take a lot of time, money and babysitters. You can do the HPU protocol -- which is comprised of vitamins, minerals and supplements -- combined with binders like micro silica and oral DMSA to get the metals out once the zinc knocks them out.
I would definitely address the metals if they find them! Feel free to PM me if you need info... I have files saved on my computer that can help.
Lots of info when you google too!
-------------------- May health be with you!
Toxic mold was suppressing our immune systems, causing extreme pain, brain fog and magnifying symptoms. Four days after moving out, the healing began. Posts: 2007 | From NY/VT Border | Registered: Aug 2010
| IP: Logged |
bcb1200
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 25745
posted
I had hair testing in December. Results were normal. Slightly high (just barely over normal range) on a 2 items, but nothing major.
-------------------- Bite date ? 2/10 symptoms began 5/10 dx'd, after 3 months numerous test and doctors
IgM Igenex +/CDC + + 23/25, 30, 31, 34, 41, 83/93
Currently on:
Currently at around 95% +/- most days. Posts: 3134 | From Massachusetts | Registered: May 2010
| IP: Logged |
blinkie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14470
posted
I'm getting the test done soon. Should have the results by the middle of March. I'm really curious to see what comes back.
Posts: 1104 | From N.California | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged |
Abxnomore
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 18936
posted
I've done about ten tests going back to l987 and all of them have come back with a variety of metals elevated.
Honestly, in this toxic environment we live in I don't it's possible for anyone not to have elevated metals......even if the test shows otherwise.
Posts: 5191 | From Lyme Zone | Registered: Jan 2009
| IP: Logged |
GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
Heavy metal testing by lab with urine or blood is not conclusive. It is as inconclusive as the testing for Lyme or parasites. As long as neuro symptoms are present, the possibility of heavy metal and chemical toxicity is very real. Fighting Lyme or other infections without addressing the rest leaves too many uncertainties. Getting infections under control while metal toxic where the body has lost the ability to detox is not possible. Not only will Lyme keep on being destructive, but so will the fungi the body is creating to protect itself from the toxicity of the destruction by metal toxins. Either way is not a good way to go.
In twelve years being around people with Lyme and having learned what they go through to get well, I have never met a single one who was not toxic from heavy metals and other environmental toxins and parasites. The contaminated terrain provides the housing for the infections.
I have gone through all of it and have come out on the other side, but not without correcting the toxic metal condition.
Not even certain that if you came straight from Mars that you would be without metal contamination. We eat it, we drink it, we have it installed in the body, we breath it -- and eventually our immune system caves in and won't recognize or release any toxin.
If you want to free yourself of Lyme and company, I would suggest to search further. Sometimes a hair test reveals the most. (Doctor's Data $48) It also tells you your mineral status and if your mineral status is "depleted", you can safely assume that you are heavy metal toxic. I have posted on this subject many times. If you don't have sufficient minerals your body is still able to absorb, you cannot get rid of the excess toxic minerals=metals, and disease takes over.
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
My wife had hair test and the results were normal. Wiat, I remebr something... I think she was little bit high in Molybdinm(sp). Her doctor told her that nothing to worry, but she is abducted by aliens. Ha ha ah
-------------------- LC 7.09 IGG66,41,39 +ve IGM 41,23 +ve 9.09 Fry's and Igenex were -ve 6 mo ABX LC 4.10 IGG66,39,18 +ve IGM -ve Posts: 73 | From Usa | Registered: Aug 2010
| IP: Logged |
seekhelp
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 15067
posted
GiGi, I had a hair analysis done in Aug-2008 from a place called King James Medical Laboratories. My holistic doc at the time who has a great reputation said they're a good lab.
What do you make of these results? My doctor made no suggestions or expressed any concern.
Posts: 7545 | From The 5th Dimension - The Twilight Zone | Registered: Mar 2008
| IP: Logged |
GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
Seekhelp, can't enlarge it. Do they report both the Potentially Toxic Metals in one section and the Essential Minerals in another section. Both should be in the same report. You have to have both in order to interpret the test.
A 2008 test is not really conclusive as things change when you are being treated. Get an updated one from a well known lab. We have been doing out testing with Doctor's data because some other formats are very difficult to interpret.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
Thanks for all the info. OK...so maybe a dumb question...can youdo a hair analysis if you have chemically treated hair (i.e. high lights)?
I just had the heavy metal IV test done....would the hair test be more conclusive or give more info then that test (that cost me about $300!!).
If I do have to do any kind of therapy to rid my body of toxins...how long does it typically take?
Posts: 376 | From New York | Registered: Jan 2011
| IP: Logged |
posted
My mercury was in the "normal" range when I was tested. I had chelated previously.
My lead was elevated.
After chelation, both were in the "normal" range, which does not mean I'm entirely rid of them, just that they have gone down to what the lab considers to be normal.
My last ART (muscle) test showed that I was still blocked by metals, however.
My hair analysis didn't show much of anything ..... it showed I was excreting aluminum, but almost everything was in the "normal" range. You have to cut your hair up by the root and can only use hair that hasn't been chemically treated, but since it's by the root, that's not too tough to do.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
| IP: Logged |
seekhelp
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 15067
posted
Yes, both are reported. So it doesn't enlarge to full screen when you click on the box? It does for me.
Do you need a doctor's order to get the Doctor's Data one?
quote:Originally posted by GiGi: Seekhelp, can't enlarge it. Do they report both the Potentially Toxic Metals in one section and the Essential Minerals in another section. Both should be in the same report. You have to have both in order to interpret the test.
A 2008 test is not really conclusive as things change when you are being treated. Get an updated one from a well known lab. We have been doing out testing with Doctor's data because some other formats are very difficult to interpret.
Posts: 7545 | From The 5th Dimension - The Twilight Zone | Registered: Mar 2008
| IP: Logged |
Abxnomore
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 18936
posted
It enlarges for me, too.
If that test is from 2008 you definitely need to retest with a DMSA provoked challenge test or a hair test. Doctor's Data is the lab to use, as already suggested.
Posts: 5191 | From Lyme Zone | Registered: Jan 2009
| IP: Logged |
momlyme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 27775
posted
You can do a Doctor's Data test though Direct Labs without a doctor's order. It was considerably more $ than GiGi suggested... but the only option for me since Doctor's Data cannot test in NY.
Toxic mold was suppressing our immune systems, causing extreme pain, brain fog and magnifying symptoms. Four days after moving out, the healing began. Posts: 2007 | From NY/VT Border | Registered: Aug 2010
| IP: Logged |
Abxnomore
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 18936
posted
I wonder when Doctor's Data could no longer be used in NY. I did my last hair test with them somewhere around 2003 or 2004. And way back in the 80's I used them in NY, too.
Posts: 5191 | From Lyme Zone | Registered: Jan 2009
| IP: Logged |
chiquita incognita
Unregistered
posted
Hi Anna I agree with Gigi about metals. It' s also possible that no level of heavy metal contamination is "safe" and why do they say that it is? Why are there "normal" levels even up for consideration? That doesn't even make sense, at least to me.
Heavy metals tend to affect the nervous and immune systems, each alike. They can contribute to MS, cancer, ADHD, lowered IQ in children, alzheimer's, immune system inhibition, auto-immune attack, so many things...
That said, my acupuncturist (considered the top naturopath in this area, which is crawling full of them so it's no small statement) said that it' s not a good idea to treat heavy metals if tests come back "normal" (whatever that means. That's my own private question mark. But then again, I am not a doctor).
He also said that the best product to use to cleanse heavy metals is called Metalloclear by Metagenics. Available here www.vitacost.com
THe reason is that it is formulated to *slowly* (that's very important! To your protection) draw the metals out of the cells. Further, it is formulated to raise certain liver enzymes that assist the breakdown and elimination of the metals.
I CANNOT STRESS ENOUGH HOW IMPORTANT THIS IS!!
"Detoxification can be retoxification" warns toxicologist, immunologist and dentist Hal Huggins. He is right.
As metals are purged, you can be re-exposed and illness can ensue, if your detoxification is not working properly.
To boost the liver's own detox function specifically to buffer and eliminate heavy metals is really important. To detox in absence thereof is not even smart.
The above product is formulated by DR Richard Shames who we talked about on another thread, Anna. Just an FYI.
CAUTION: I also suggest not doing a heavy metal cleanse if leaky gut syndrome is present. You will be far too vulnerable to toxic over-exposure in leaky gut and metals can be noxious. Check with your naturopathic doctor about this, seal up the gut lining first and then proceed with heavy metal detox thereafter. That is my suggestion.
I am not a doctor. Ask your doctor for his/her professional opinion, in anything you do.
IP: Logged |
momlyme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 27775
posted
The word I got from a parent of a child with Autism (and heavy metals) is that NYS made hair testing illegal when a group of parents got together and tested their children to find that ALL the children going to a certain NYS school had lead poisoning.
NYS found it easier to make hair testing illegal therefore dismissing the case than to address the problem. I have yet to find evidence of this. I am not too far from the capital and when my son is well enough, I intend to research the origin of the law.
The NYS Dept. of Health says the reason hair testing is illegal is that it is an "unreliable source." In their opinion, the only reliable body fluids that can be tested are urine and whole blood. Therefore the other way to test minerals (red blood cell testing) is also illegal.
It has been an obstacle in recovery to say the least!
So much for the land of the free!
"I hope our wisdom will grow with our power, and teach us, that the less we use our power the greater it will be." ~Thomas Jefferson
-------------------- May health be with you!
Toxic mold was suppressing our immune systems, causing extreme pain, brain fog and magnifying symptoms. Four days after moving out, the healing began. Posts: 2007 | From NY/VT Border | Registered: Aug 2010
| IP: Logged |
Abxnomore
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 18936
posted
Interesting. I'm sure pressure from the AMA and those not even wanting the subject of Autism discussed by anyone but the AMA, a did their best to end the use of this test.
Agreed, there is no one is this world that is not carrying heavy metals in their systems. It's in the food we eat, the water we drink, the air we breath....it's just not possible not to have it in your system.
Posts: 5191 | From Lyme Zone | Registered: Jan 2009
| IP: Logged |
posted
Seekhelp, looks like you're depleted in good minerals/metals (specifically zinc/Magnesium) not intoxication with bad ones.
Posts: 442 | From Biddeford, ME | Registered: Nov 2007
| IP: Logged |
seekhelp
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 15067
posted
DoctorLuddite, want to hear something interesting? This hair test said depleted minerals. I get my RBC Magnesium test back today and it's abnormal HIGH w/o much supplementation at all. Makes me wonder about all this. I'm going to make a separate post. I'm wondering if I have KPU.
Posts: 7545 | From The 5th Dimension - The Twilight Zone | Registered: Mar 2008
| IP: Logged |
Abxnomore
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 18936
posted
Testing for KPU would certainly be a good thing but as far as your heavy metal test keep in mind it's from 2008. It's essentially useless at this point.
Posts: 5191 | From Lyme Zone | Registered: Jan 2009
| IP: Logged |
posted
Interesting. Provocation tests tell us how much of a particular element a provoking agent will pull out. Since it pulled out little magnesium, the reason could be that either you don't have enough magnesium, or the provoking agent is lousy at pulling it out. Mag and Zinc are very important in Vitamin D metabolism...btw.
Posts: 442 | From Biddeford, ME | Registered: Nov 2007
| IP: Logged |
GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
These are quotes from DK -
The way mercury gets in the hair - there is an illusion that I've heard people say that they have a feeling that the brain pushes it into the hair. It doesn't go like that. The brain is actually very sophisticated. It actually puts it in:
1. the connective tissue of the brain first, from the inside of the brain cell to the outside of the brain cells, and then has to be picked up by the
2. lymphatics or by the blood vessels of the brain, and then goes in the
3. bloodstream, and the venous return first goes to the
4. heart and then through the
5. lungs, and then
6. heart pumps it out oxygenated back into the
7. bloodstream, and that way it reaches the
8. hair follicles and then gets pushed out in the hair follicles.
So it is a long way from the brain to the hair. If this process is disturbed somewhere "there ain't any mercury in the hair."
How to Read Hair Analysis
First you look at all the essential minerals - copper, the zinc, the vanadium, all that, and rate what you see as fairly normal, moderately disturbed, or severely disturbed.
Then you look at the toxin levels. When you find somebody whose mineral metabolism is severely disturbed, and they have no mercury or toxic metals coming out, that is a severe heavy metal case.
It's the ABSENCE of toxic metals and the SEVERITY and THE DISTURBANCE of the good metals that makes the diagnosis of severe mercury toxicity.
The opposite, the mild case or the almost done with detox case is the one where the minerals look absolutely beautiful and everything is square in the middle of where it should be, and you have mild to moderate levels of toxic metals. That is a case where you can say, "we're finished." Those people feel great.
Please excuse any typing errors, I am typing this for Gigi(playing secretary today) and I have lots of mercury!! NanaDubo
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
| IP: Logged |
GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
and some more: there is no lab test which tells with certainty how much toxic metals remain in the body. I have seen challenge tests that deliver a lot, a little, or none; neither means or tells what is actually remaining in the body. Very often the body is not able to release any toxic metals for other reasons.
A major problem that I have seen with most Lymies is that they have become allergic to toxic metals, i.e. the body no longer recognizes the toxins and therefore does not eliminate them and any new exposure gets added to the pile that is already too high.
When that is the case, eliminating any infection of any type becomes very difficult, becausethe terrain remains contaminated and the pathogens find the place too comfortable and are not in a hurry to leave.
Allergie Immun eliminated that dysregulation problem and many who are doing it start to dump the metals along with all the other blockages that are eliminated through the Allergie Immun drops. I have been dumping remainders of metals mainly out of my mouth from the day I started Allergie Immun and am glad that I won't carry the toxic stuff around with me for the rest of my life.
That is why getting rid of the allergies/dysregulations from the DNA with AI has been my theme song for a couple of years.
Good luck to all.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
| IP: Logged |
GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
and some more: there is no lab test which tells with certainty how much toxic metals remain in the body. I have seen challenge tests that deliver a lot, a little, or none; neither means or tells what is actually remaining in the body. Very often the body is not able to release any toxic metals for other reasons.
A major problem that I have seen with many with Lyme is that they have become allergic to toxic metals, i.e. the body no longer recognizes the toxins and therefore does not eliminate them, and any new exposure gets added to the pile that is already too high.
When that is the case, eliminating any infection of any type becomes very difficult, becausethe terrain remains contaminated and the pathogens find the place too comfortable and are not in a hurry to leave.
Allergie Immun eliminated that dysregulation problem and many who are doing it start to dump the metals along with all the other blockages that are eliminated through the Allergie Immun drops. I have been dumping remainders of metals mainly out of my mouth from the day I started Allergie Immun and am glad that I won't carry the toxic stuff around with me for the rest of my life causing more and more damage.
That is why getting rid of the allergies/dysregulations/errors in the DNA with AI has been my theme song for a couple of years.
Good luck to all.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
| IP: Logged |
chiquita incognita
Unregistered
posted
Hi Gigi This is very interesting indeed and you are very knowledgeable. Can you enlighten me (I am new here, sorry still catching up with many things) what/who DK is?
Also do you have a link?
Is it a medical source?
A chiropractic neurologist (interesting specialty, FYI) told me that hair analysis is inaccurate. That was at least his opinion. What you wrote above explains a lot of it.
That doesn't mean that NY should go making such tests "illegal" for any reason whatsoever, much less for purposes of hiding away from a lawsuit. They ought to take care of the problem then lawsuits would be less likely. Furhter, in the Land of the Free (fast becoming The HOme of the Very BRave Indeed!!) we should be free to go any route we wish. Geez.Throw the dictators out!
IP: Logged |
chiquita incognita
Unregistered
posted
PS Dr Luddite can you comment about the DK infor above? Reliability of hair analysis, other metal tests? Acceptable levels of metals in the body? I remain skeptical that any level of heavy metals is acceptable (even if it's unavoidable too) and would be interested in your thoughts.
Thanks for stepping forward, it is very nice of you to do! Best wishes, CI
IP: Logged |
posted
I find GiGi's view point on this to be spot on. In fact I think the hair analysis you are describing is pretty much Andy Cutlers "hair test interpretation" method where you find hidden mercury toxicity through counting methods of other minerals in the hair.
People need to be aware that you can be incredibly toxic with metals even with normal testing through hair and urine. The mercury that does the most damage in the body is the "slow pools" inside the cells in the CNS and brain. These cannot be measured.
Many LLMDs(including my own) are using incomplete and useless chelation protools and retesting patients and declaring them symptom free merely because they used a few random doses of DMSA to clear the blood stream leaving all the real dangerous stuff in the brain.
Those that do use ALA which is the only mercury brain chelator are using it at random and dangerously high doses causing terrible metal redistribution in patients and calling it a herx.
I cannot stress enough the need to take a prolonged and systematic approach to metal detox using Andy Cutlers methods. This I have personal experience with and I am only now beginning to chelate properly at a level I can control and manage safely.
-------------------- Pos BB and Bart(Q & H IGG pos) Began treat 1 year after start of illness. Diagnosed Feb 2007. Posts: 648 | From Ireland | Registered: Jan 2007
| IP: Logged |
Abxnomore
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 18936
posted
Dr. K is a highly regarded integrative LLMD out on the west coast, who uses many novel and time tested modalities including herbs and nutritional supplements.
Posts: 5191 | From Lyme Zone | Registered: Jan 2009
| IP: Logged |
posted
I find NMN's words to be very true in my case.
Doctor's Data hair test showed derranged minerals. Metals didn't even show up.
Three or four provoked urine tests over 4 years all showing high levels aluminium, arsenic, mercury and lead all coming down with low dose DMSA, EDTA suppositories, diet.
Still today unable to take ALA, potent garlic, and cilantro tinctures due to symptoms that mimic a severe redistribution.
Hair analysis is great if you know how to interpret it along side a urine test.
Lyme is under control for me at this point. My cognitive issues I believe are from metals and parasites. I had high lead as a child and this damage may be perminent and unfixable.
-------------------- Bart Henslea 1976 Fibro/CFS/arthritis 2004 Lyme diagnosed 2007 3 1/2 years treatment with oral combos, Cowden, IV roc. BW herbs. Off all abx in 12/10. Feeling good. Posts: 647 | From NY | Registered: Dec 2007
| IP: Logged |
The Lyme Disease Network is a non-profit organization funded by individual donations. If you would like to support the Network and the LymeNet system of Web services, please send your donations to:
The
Lyme Disease Network of New Jersey 907 Pebble Creek Court,
Pennington,
NJ08534USA http://www.lymenet.org/
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic