posted
I've got 4 root canaled teeth - numbers 10 thru 13 - all in a row on the upper left.
My first was done in 1998 and then every few years I needed another one.
These teeth went bad for unknown reasons - probably lyme.
My last one was done this past September.
These teeth have never been really comfortable and this is the side of my face that I get flares of trigeminal neuralgia.
Two (#10 and 12) of the root canals have been acting up and hurt a lot. I was in a car accident a few weeks back and the doc thinks they were somewhat traumatized.
The x-rays showed some bone loss and possible infection.
I took one course of Amoxicillin which helped a lot but when I stopped it the pain came back within a day.
So, they put me on a stronger course of Amoxicillin.
The question is what to do? I am pretty much ready to get them all pulled and then get a bridge or partial or something like that.
The endodontist of course would love to re-do the root canals on the two teeth that are hurting. He doesn't want to see me lose "perfectly good" teeth.
They are not perfectly good - I can tell you that!
But if I re-do them I don't think I am treating the underlying problem.
I have lyme, babs and bart and am currently treating with Byron White herbals and I guess you could also now say amoxicillin.
Thanks for all your advice on this.
I need to make a decision soon as this hurts quite a bit.
Posts: 581 | From CT | Registered: May 2008
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lightparfait
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 22022
posted
go to a biological dentist who treats with laser therapy and autonomic resonse testing to check your teeth...and treat the area before any radical surgery
Posts: 1009 | From NJ | Registered: Aug 2009
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posted
Pull them. My LLMD explained to me: root canals are toxic because of microscopic channels from the tooth out to the gums. When you get the root canal, the root gets filled in with whatever it is that they fill it up with, and the tiny channels still have the bacteria that was infecting the tooth. So the infection festers in your mouth, making you sick.
He said that when a root canaled tooth is placed under the skin of a rabbit, the rabbit dies. It is impossible to clear out the bacteria and infection.
Soooo, its best to dump the tooth, dump the infection.
Posts: 427 | From Pacific Northwest | Registered: Oct 2010
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posted
Up for more opinions
Posts: 581 | From CT | Registered: May 2008
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gwb
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7273
posted
I agree with lightparfait, go to a biological dentist whatever you do. Root canals have a 60% or more failure rate. I went to a biological dentist a few months ago and it was the best dental treatment I've EVER had.
This is a good article to read that my biological dentist wrote about root canals:
desertwind
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 25256
posted
Everytime I had a root canal done it turned into a disaster. More pain, sick, worsening of all my symptoms -lyme and otherwise.
I also have a rough time with implants - body did not like them either.
It is a tough call to make. I had a couple r.c.'s that were re-done about three times.
Seems like anytime a dentist begins work it opens up a can of worms. I agree with the idea of a Biological dentist if you decide to follow through.
I can say that my teeth did hurt alot worse before I re-started lyme treatment and are now feeling better. Maybe I had a lingering tooth infection that the abx.s took care of or maybe it was lyme but either way long term abx. tx. did help with the pain I had in multiple r.c.'d teeth.
Today I can chomp away pretty good without pain -a year or two ago I could not do that.
Posts: 1671 | From Tick Infested New Jersey | Registered: Apr 2010
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posted
I agree that the choice is complicated. Most of the retreatments are expensive and have a limited success rate. Though root canal extractions can be difficult and painful for some folks, so be prepared for that as well. Mine was very tough
Posts: 357 | From California | Registered: Jun 2010
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posted
I am going to look for a biological dentist that does not charge a super high fee - seems like all do. I am in CT.
I had not thought about how difficult the extractions might be.............
Thanks for all of the opinions so far.
Posts: 581 | From CT | Registered: May 2008
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nefferdun
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I agree with the biological dentist first. It won't be cheap to pull the teeth and get a bridge so if you are worried about the cost, saving them is actually more efficient.
I have a root canal and no problems. I also have amalgam feelings. My mercury levels are not above normal. Not everyone is affected.
It could be the nerves radiating into your jaw that are causing the problem and not your teeth. I had irritation of the vegas nerve and it felt like my teeth were going to fall out. It only lasted a short time.
-------------------- old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot Posts: 4676 | From western Montana | Registered: Apr 2009
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posted
This is probably redundant but the cost is less only if the root canal retreatment's work, or if you choose implants or expensive types of bridges. I have not used any bridge on my absent molar and I do not find it to be a big problem. My dentist tried to convince me that was impossible Extractions are usually in the hundred to two hundred range
Posts: 357 | From California | Registered: Jun 2010
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posted
Biological dentist - $650 for a consult and that doesn't even include any work really. He does so laser treatments and energetic testing they told me.
Sounds almost as bad as LLMD's fees.
You've got to be wealthy to have lyme and teeth problems.
I do believe the nerves are part of my problem but now that I've got the 4 root canals I also believe that infection is an issue.
Posts: 581 | From CT | Registered: May 2008
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lululymemom
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Member # 26405
posted
Root canaled teeth can become very brittle and difficult to extract. I had a very hard time with even one extraction. However, everyone is different. It depends on the roots of your teeth and how they are positioned as well.
IMO, if you can save the tooth, do it. I sure don't want to lose any more teeth, it wasn't a pleasant experience for me and they really are a part of you that you are going to miss.
posted
"I went to a biological dentist a few months ago and it was the best dental treatment I've EVER had."
gwb, what treatment did you have?
Posts: 857 | From northern california | Registered: Dec 2009
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karenl
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 17753
posted
The dental bacteria can go systemic and then it can be tested in the bloodstream by Spiro Stat Labs. Then it also has to be treated systemically with IVs. But they also mentioned the new ozone treatment.
Posts: 1834 | From US | Registered: Oct 2008
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gwb
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7273
posted
dogmom, I had a terrible upper gum infection and didn't even know it. The dentist had to pull a big chunk of my gum back and scrape the infection out then cleaned it up. After he did the procedure my lyme symptoms got better too.
My biological doctor suggested that he believed my teeth or gums were causing me some problems. I didn't think so because there wasn't any pain in my mouth, But Dr. Behm found my root canal, that I had done four or five years ago, had become infected. My regular dentist never even caught that, even with an x-ray.
Dr. Behm did muscle testing on me. However, he asked if I was familiar with it and if I would be comfortable with him doing it before he proceeded to do it. He won't do it on people who don't believe in it or are not comfortable with it.
Dr. Behm is a pro when it comes to muscle testing. He has confidence and knew right away what my problem was. I wish we lived closer to him so I could go back and get some additional work done.
Druckrey (Heidelberg) found among other things that transformation of a normal cell into a malignant cell requires a certain quantity of a carcinogen -the carcinogenic minimum dose. It does not matter whether this quantity is supplied in a single dose or in a number of smaller doses, because the toxic effects of each dose are stored, and accumulate without loss. The carcinogens held primarily responsible for the development of spontaneous cancer in man are those: Which inhibit the aerobiosis even in minimal quantities without at the same time immediately destroying the cell, and, which are constantly present in the organism in this minimal concentration of either endogenous or exogenous origin; they can therefore accumulate during the normal life expectancy gradually and unnoticeably until the total quantity necessary for malignization is reached.
Maybe I am not understanding the context, but there seems to be evidence that carcinogens do not simply accumalate without end on an inevitable road to cancer. Smokers are at a much greater risk for cancer while smoking and their overall risk declines proportional to the years they have quit, This would seem to suggest that toxic loads can be released from the body to some extent, or at least are not strictly cumulative
Posts: 357 | From California | Registered: Jun 2010
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
If you are female, you definitely do not want to keep a dead root canaled tooth in your mouth. It is a red flag for Dr.K. with any patient and chronic problems. It is the first thing he said to me in 1998 when I came to him with Lyme, and my root canals were the first to go, within one month of my first visit. I am certain that is what kept me alive and in super shape today -
Take it seriously. It usualy turns into more than one root canal because the infections surrounding the first one spreads. The next tooth to help form the bridge is the next one to need a root canal because the nerve of a tooth can only take so much before it also dies. That is the way I ended up with 12 root canals of them. "If you want to live" ..... is the first thing he said to me, as if I hadn't known it before I went to see him.
Root canals cause cavitations = turning the jawbone to "mush" . I watched it being scooped out! No ozone, no laser is going to correct that.
If you have to loose a tooth, replace the tooth with a fine partial made from material your body can handle.
Tooth has to be replaced in order to avoid structural changes in the body - back problems, chewing, detoxing with proper bite, etc. The head is connected to the rest of the body even if most dentists don't think so!
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
Was diagnosed heavy metal toxic (DMPS challenge test). Vaccines in the army (over 10 years) and 18 amalgam fillings. My last two teeth were roor canals and removing the amalgam build up gased mercury in my mouth.
My memory was like swiss cheese for about 6 to 8 weeks. Not quite back to normal but much better. If I get the root canals removed it will be with a bio dentist (conventional dentise do not understand the reason to do it) it will be about $600. However the implants are about 3k each.
Haven't decided what to do yet but I went with crowns and I wish I would have just done temporaries while I did the research. If the ABX cleans up germs from the root canals I would think that is only temporary because the root canal is a germ factory according to Hal Huggins. Again I do not know for sure!
I have been doing DMPS infusions to reduce the heavy metal load, I have a couple of months to go.
Posts: 607 | From Houston Texas | Registered: Mar 2011
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CherylSue
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 13077
posted
I just had a root canal in September. My health went downhill this winter. Do you think I should have the tooth extracted and an implant installed? It's the upper front side.
CherylSue
Posts: 1954 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2007
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chiquita incognita
Unregistered
posted
Here's some info:
From George E Meining DDS's book Root Canal Coverup:
When they cut the nerve to the root canal tooth, it dies. So you get enzymes breaking down the tooth and this causes health problems.
But much worse...
This book shows an xray of bacteria caught in the dentin tubules in the teeth. These are 5 mile long microscopic tunnels in the deeper layers.
Such xrays are not shown in dental schooling and the author said he never saw such an xray even in 35 years of practicing. It's repressed information, he said. Blowing the whistle in this book...
They pack the tooth tightly with dental fillings so the bacteria can't get out.
The tooth tests sterile...but it isn't. The bacteria are caught inside the deeper layers of the tooth.
The tooth itself dies because of the cut nerve, and becomes brittle.
Now the mischief begins in really good earnest.
The bacteria are starved for oxygen becuase the fillings deprive them of it.
The bacteria adapt to become anaerobic, secreting all the more virulent toxins.
These toxins can't leach out through the fillings in the roots, but do leach through the enamel layers at the surface of the tooth.
The human host now becomes ill with various infections. Varies with each person.
In Dr Meining's book there are hair-raising and stirring photos....take out a root canal tooth which caused horrible looking pus pockets in the person's tonsils and plant it under the skin of a rabbit (which has a similar immune system to people, according to the book). THe rabbit becomes ill within about 5 days and shows The Exact Same Symptoms As the Human Host. Pinkeye, pus pockets, whatever you had....then dies.
Read the book, become more informed, then make your own decision.
I am not a doctor or a dentist and can only venture a layperson's guess.
I *wonder* if....I can't say for sure, I never diagnose....your problems may be coming from the root canal teeth, and hte infection from them are exacerbating your lyme because your immune system may be overwhelmed?
I don't know if this is fact or speculation, again I am a layperson.
Read the book, see what you think.
You won't believe it....
FYI I came down with Graves Disease 18 months after having my first and only root canal surgery done. Noone else in the family ever had Graves.
I had the tooth extracted and am going to have a bridge put in.
Unfortunately the illnesses often develop after at least a year or even two years later. SO the mainstream fails to correlate the illnesses with the root canal surgery. A bad oversight....
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posted
I am going to put my .02 in here ...just because
I have HORRIBLE teeth. I have had nothing but trouble probably since I got Lyme in '92.
I had, at one point, fillings in every single molar. Had my first root canal done after my 3rd child was born...right around the time my Lyme became really *active*.
It was a bad root canal, novicaine didn't work, I have dental phobia anyways...did not go back to the dentist for about 4 years...when I did I had teeth full of decay, breaking off, and needed 5 root canals, 4 extractions, crowns, bridges...yeah.
Through this process, by default, I had alot of my old 'mercury' removed. The worst teeth had been pulled.
The root canals caused a major relapse. That, combined with the herxing from all the abx I was on...not a good time.
I just went in to have 11 cavities filled (composite) and my teeth prepped for crowns. My dentist has replaced all but one of my remaining mercury fillings, the last of which will be repaced at the end of this month.
I have had no ill-effect from the removal of the remaining mercury, in fact, I feel great.
So...my thoughts on root canals. SHoud you have one? Will it mess you up? Maybe. I really believe that if your immune system is good, you will be ok. At the time I had minedone, mine was not and I got sicker. I fully expected the mercury removal to cause some backlash...it did not, which I believe is due to the fact that my immune system is functioning better now. I did take charcoal after, along with chlorella but only for a couple days. Did some other detoxing, but really forgot about it after several days.
Same thing with implants. It is a foriegn body that your body will not recognize. If you are really sick, I imagine it won't go well. If you are better/in remission it will be easier, I would assume.
I do not have a bio-dentist as I cannot afford one. I simply have a good dentist who listens to my concerns. He was SUPER careful when removing my mercury fillings, and I appreciate that. I didn't even think of having him replacing the old ones, HE suggested it due to my concerns/health.
Listen to your gut. If it feels right, do it. If not...
I have molars that were pulled and was told I would HAVE to get implants as a bridge was not an option there...I chose to do nothing. I can still sort of chew, and feel like for me, implants would be a bad idea. Maybe someday, but not today. So, I live with it. No one can see the space so.... Posts: 206 | From In the shadow of a mountain | Registered: Feb 2011
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