posted
Oh HOLY COW! I see my son in there...but as I read further down...I saw myself there as well.
When I got to the woman that talks about the road rage and talking to companies on the phone, getting upset over tiny mistakes, OMG!
I knew that I got upset and yelled easily, but never thought of myself of having the Lyme rage...
I just figured I was quick to temper.
J
-------------------- J Posts: 91 | From Northwest Indiana | Registered: Dec 2004
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sparkle7
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You know that's Kathleen Dickson's website... Just though I'd mention it.
It's a bit extreme. I think the author is stretching it a bit.
quote -
In addition to the symptoms described in these cases, other aggressive symptoms I have observed in association with LN include homicide, suicide, combined homicide and suicide, assaults with guns, assault with a knife, assault with a sword, assault with an axe, assault with a hammer, assault with rocks,
assaulting a sibling�s head with a rock, pedophilia, stalking, child abuse, assault towards teachers and other students, assaults at summer camp, self inflicted injuries, other types of road rage incidents, domestic violence, torturing household pets, killing pets, armed robbery, shoplifting, destroying property with total amnesia of the event afterwards, breaking and attempting to break automobile windshields and various forms of public lewdness.
----
I don't think these behaviors can be justified or rationalized by a Lyme diagnosis alone.
----
then, another quote -
There are many similarities between the neuropsychiatric manifestations of Syphilis and Lyme disease. In addition to the citations in the medical literature, there are references in literature, and a number of famous and infamous individuals noted for their violent tendencies were considered to possibly have syphilis.
These individuals include Peter the Great, Henry IIX, Idi Amin, Al Capone and questionably Adolf Hitler.
----
I think he's assuming way too much. Just my opinion... It's a bit out there even to someone who into "conspiracies".
No offense to anyone. I just don't buy it. He doesn't have enough solid proof to make a correlation between really radical behavior (like pedophilia) & Lyme disease.
It's just a collection of observations & variables. I'm not sure why he would want to put this out there. Maybe to get attention? Maybe it's so all people with a Lyme disease diagnosis would be locked up in mental institutions? Who knows?
I do have empathy for people suffering with weird symptoms but I can't really agree that we can blame a homicide (or oter deviant behavior) on Lyme alone.
I think that actually came up a while ago. In Texas maybe? In fiction - it was in the movie LymeLife.
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TerryK
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The article is written by an LLMD and is based on his clinical experience. In my view it is VERY valid for that reason.
Over the years I have seen many people post about similar difficulties. It is helpful to know what might be causing it and what kinds of treatments might be helpful.
sparkle7
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I can understand your point but I would not go to see this doctor. I used to live near where he's located.
I do feel bad for people who are ill & going through tough times. i just can't see drawing a link between Lyme & some of these really heinous behaviors...
I mean he's justifying murder, pedophilia, killing pets, assults with various weapons, etc. on Lyme. If this were really taken seriously - everyone with a Lyme diagnosis would be locked up in an institution.
Then, he brings in the Hitler reference. Is he trying to tell us that a spirochete infection is responsible for the extermination of millions of people...?
TerryK - you're a great contributor but I have to politely disagree with you on this one.
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TerryK
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I wanted to add that he is also board certified in Psychiatry. Of course there is a certain percentage of the population who would be violent regardless of lyme disease but I think that would be relatively small.
Personally I believe much of the website where the article was posted is valid. Last time I looked (awhile ago) there were many scanned documents and articles that were well worth reading. The woman who gathered the info was a scientist who seems to have a good understanding of the issues.
sparkle, you wrote:
TerryK - you're a great contributor but I have to politely disagree with you on this one.
Thanks for the compliment. I was only presenting the article for information purposes not as my own point of view. That said I don't question his motives for writing the article nor can I refute his observations and conclusions. He certainly has a lot more experience and expertise than I do.
edited to add: I just checked the website because the format had changed and it looks now like it is many links to pubmed articles and other sources. Seems like a good place to look for information.
Terry
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sparkle7
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I have been to see highly credentialed doctors who were complete ignoramuses. So, I'm not necessirily impressed by that sort of thing.
Given, if a person has Lyme & has very extreme symptoms - this line of thought would validate them. It's just that the diagnosis of Lyme with !00% accuracy is often elusive. How do we know if this extreme behavior isn't being caused by exposure to mercury, toxoplasmosis, herpes, epstein-barr, XMRV, pesticides, EMFs, low level radiation, too much sugar, or any number of things.
There's really no way to correlate odd behavior with Lyme or co-infections. I'm sure alot of people with cancer, AIDS and a myriad of illness think of suicide & actually do it, or react in a violent manner at times.
I don't doubt that Lyme may have it's own special kind of peculiarness but it might also be CFS, Fibromyalgia, some kind of parasite, MS, or some other ailment. Many symptoms overlap.
When it gets to something like attacking people with deadly weapons, murder, pedophilia, torturing household pets, killing pets, armed robbery, shoplifting - it's a bit much.
Some people really are mentally disturbed. It can be due to alot of things these days. I can respect that this doctor may want to help people - Kathleen Dickson, too (& you think I'm bad about conspiracy theory stuff). It's just that when you bring up "Hitler" - it's a very loaded concept.
Maybe they just wanted to get their message across but if this is taken seriously - anyone with a Lyme diagnosis will be locked up in a mental institution. This is not good.
I wonder why all people with Lyme don't seem to be reacting this way...? Why do some people get "Lyme Rage" & others don't? There has to be something more to it.
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I am not all or nothing kind of person. So for me, I was able to read through the website and say yes to some of the things and to other things go hmmm, that seems a bit far fetched.
I don't buy into everything I see. I also don't think EVERYTHING can be blamed on Lyme and at some point we do have to take responsibility for our own actions.
That being said... I DO believe in Lyme Rage and to that end that is what I think my son has as well as myself. My son was diagnosed as bipolar schizophrenic at 16, not 2 years after he had a bullseye rash.
I was also pregnant with Lyme, though we did not know it at the time. Double whammy.
We had many years of patching holes in walls and dealing with mood swings. He tried meds for it that did not help.
Now? The mood swings are almost gone but he has such horrible joint pain it isn't even funny. He sees Dr. L next month but thankfully our family doc has started him on the same antibiotics that Dr. L has me on.
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TerryK
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Looks like Kathleen is involved in more than one website. The website where the article is posted:
Yes, we got to just love her for it... She's a smart gal but a bit out there even by my standards - LOL
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TerryK
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Jacqi, I'm so glad that you and your son are better.
You make some good points spark. I do think there is a relationship between many illnesses and depression, rages, anxiety, irritability etc. etc..
Untreated sleep apnea is known for causing irritability and from what I've read over the years I think many beleive that lyme causes rages but that is just my observation based on what I've heard and read from other patients.
Edited to add: I meant to mention that I've recognized quick flashes bordering on rage in myself during parts of my treatment. They would come and go very quickly. I associated them with lyme treatment which in me seems to cause intensified lyme symptoms. I haven't had one in a long time nor did I have them before treatment.
posted
This is old news read this in 2006, anyways I don't think he is an LLMD or treats Lyme in anyway. But here is a link to much more of his work if anyone wants to read. He's got quite a bit out there in the cyber world:
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sparkle7
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ps - Jacqi - maybe it was hormones in combination with Lyme in your son's case?
Maybe there's a hormonal connection?
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sparkle7
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I did not read the article yet but I will say I have been VERY suicidal at times during this illness and aside from being sick, I have a great life...no reason at ALL to kill myself yet I have been there...also I do fly off the handle at the slightest provocation and that is normally not my style...I try REALLY hard to control it because it is not fair to my family but it requires quite a bit of talking to myself to keep me from totally losing it...course that sounds crazy too...
I guess my point is in agreement with CI...why WOULDN'T Lyme cause these feelings/behaviors? There are BUGS in our BRAINS! How are we supposed to react?
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What I object to in this article is the speculation.
Yes, of course, behavior, emotion, perception, cognition are all potentially adversely affected in brain disease. My poor son, who is a sweetheart of a person, has had periods of agitation in which he broke pencil after pencil because he was so agitated and aggressive. But the thing is, he described it as "I'm so sorry, Mom, but I can't help it, it doesn't feel like me." The fancy term is that the behavior is ego-dystonic.
Monsters like Hitler are not acting impulsively, in a fugue state, or in an ego-dystonic manner.
I wish the doctors writing Lyme articles would 'stick to the facts, ma'am' and leave the wilder speculations out of it.
Susie
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I think it was the history channel that did a story on Hitler and the possibility that he had syphilis. I saw part of the show in some hotel room sometime. It did seem to have some valid points. But there is no way to know.
The combination of pain and light and sound sensitivity and brain infection and sleep deprivation could cause lots of different presentations in my opinion.
Bea Seibert
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chiquita incognita
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I can't say about Hitler, but will say this:
I have read about brain scans showing abnormalities in those with anti-social personality disorder, ie those who murder with no regret.
I think that is very different than those who go crazy from brain disease.
Listen, I have read about people recovering from schizophrenia just from gluten avoidance. A friend who is an RN also told me of someone who had been hospitalized with schizophrenia and who recovered with gluten avoidance.
If leaky gut can lead to schizophrenia (after all, food particles are in the blood and also the neurotransmitters are manufactured in the gut), and if bacteria and particles attaching themselves to brain material would cause psychosis, then why couldn't and would'nt a person spin out and do something *that they later regretted*, from lyme infection?
That's not the same as Hitler who would never regret it. Such low-life *things* don't regret what they have done and they feel no empathy and no remorse. They are dead inside.
People who go crazy or get aggressive *due to brain infection* will apologize and sure would feel horrible if they really did something wrong. Good god. They would have a conscience, even if they "lost it" temporarily.
There is a big difference between true murderous psychology and brain infection.
My two cents worth.
As for speculations, I think those among us who are speculating that this would *not* happen with brain infection are right here, posting to this forum. Again I am truly surprised that this doesn't happen more often than it does, just from lyme infections in the brain alone.
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sparkle7
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There could be many reasons why a person may go into a rage. If everyone with Lyme exhibited these behaviors - I would say it's something we could attribute to Lyme.
It would be interesting to see what percentage of people with Lyme exhibit these behaviors. We don't have a really good way to diagnose Lyme for sure at this time. So, we will never know. Showing someone was exposed to Lyme doesn't necessarily mean that they are ill with Lyme (ie Bb).
I think it's a bit dangerous to connect Lyme with things like shoplifting, pedophilia, & murder. It could be prions, EMFs, vaccines, viruses, retroviruses, and a whole host of toxic chemicals which can cause irradic behavior.
Some people go off into rages in general due to jealousy or hormones or having personality disorders. Lyme may just be the icing on the cake - so to speak.
It may be something like a combination of things - hormonal disturbances, vaccines, & Lyme - or a bunch of different combinations.
Lyme has also been studied to possibly be the cause of dementia but it may also be heavy metals in the environment. With so many different suspected causes - it's really difficult to pull all of these things apart to pinpoint the true cause.
I do think help should be available to everyone who is ill no matter what the cause is - physical or psychiatric.
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TerryK
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bigstan, I know this is old news for some but there are people here who have not seen it before.
It is unpleasant to hear or feel the psychiactric effects of Lyme Disease but very helpful to understand and acknowledge them so that patients can recieve appropriate treatment for Lyme disease and it's symptoms.
There are many many papers written and studies conducted on the psychiactric effects of lyme disease.
I have chosen a few links from lymeinfo.net but there are many more listed there and elsewhere.
"Individual Psychotherapy: Most often, the treatment plan will also include psychotherapy to help the child process the significant losses experienced as a result of the devastating effects of Lyme disease (reduced attendance at school, reduced interaction with friends and classmates, reduced ability to engage in sports or hobbies, depression, mood changes, emotional rages, and anxiety)."
Borrelia burgdorferi central nervous system infection presenting as an organic schizophrenialike disorder.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7943444?dopt=Abstract "A broad range of psychiatric reactions have been associated with Lyme disease including paranoia, dementia, schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, panic attacks, major depression, anorexia nervosa, and obsessive-compulsive disorder. Depressive states among patients with late Lyme disease are fairly common, ranging across studies from 26% to 66%. The microbiology of Borrelia burgdorferi sheds light on why Lyme disease can be relapsing and remitting and why it can be refractory to normal immune surveillance and standard antibiotic regimens."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11852824?dopt=Abstract "Mental disorders are part of clinical picture of the acute stage of Lyme Disease, and could also be its sequel. The most commonly found mental disorders are: encephalopathy, other cognitive disorders, mood disorders (depression), anxiety disorders and less often: psychotic disorders and eating disorders (anorexia nervosa)."
Brain Scans Distinguish Lyme Disease From Primary Psychiatric Disorders
Since this pattern of decreased brain perfusion is seen in patients with other diseases, including HIV encephalopathy, chronic cocaine abuse, chronic fatigue syndrome and lupus, SPECT imaging alone cannot be used to confirm a diagnosis of chronic Lyme disease.
---
I'm not trying to say that Lyme doesn't effect the brain - it's just hard to prove. We need to be sure we are really dealing with the problems at hand & not lump everything into all being Lyme related.
The main thing is that the tests aren't accurate - so, we can't tell which is what. That the really unfortunate thing.
No one should have to suffer with all of this. We really need better medical care for people with Lyme, co-infections, CFS, Fibromyalgia, etc. People with these illnesses are marginalized.
I don't think the way to call attention to our plight is to say we become shoplifters, murderers & pedophiles, though.
You are on the right track, TerryK.
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TerryK
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spark wrote:
I'm not trying to say that Lyme doesn't effect the brain - it's just hard to prove.
I think it's already been proven with literally 100's of studies that Lyme does affect the brain. Whether it is the cause of a specific person's brain issues is the question however if one has TBI (tick borne infections) and/or all the symptoms of TBI AND brain issues, it's not a big leap to think that TBI's are responsible.
I understand your objections but there really is more than ample evidence to show that lyme can cause psychiactric issues.
I posted the first article in the hopes that it might be helpful to some, not to indict lyme patients or upset anyone.
I can see why those who don't have disturbing psychiactric symptoms might be upset but knowing that these are common symptoms in lyme patients and that there are helpful treatments can be very useful to those who are suffering with these manifestations.
Terry
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TerryK
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spark- you probably already know this but for those who don't, CFS and fibromyalgia are often undiagnosed lyme disease. I had been diagnosed with both before my lyme diagnosis and that seems to be very common amoung chronic lyme patients. Lupus is another often seen diagnosis in chronic lyme patients as are many other illnesses with unknown cause.
Terry
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sparkle7
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I guess in my case - it's hard since I've been diagnosed with CFS, Fibromyalgia & Lyme at various times.
I guess that's why I see the possibility of psych symptoms as being part of other illnesses. Ther correlation of syphilis & psych disorders are noteworthy. I just don't know if people with CFS or other illnesses have these symptoms, too.
If it came down to a court of law where someone was blaming a homicide on Lyme - do you think it would mitigate the sentencing? Should people push for something like that to be included in law? Kind of a tricky question...
Maybe having psych patients take abx may help if it's Lyme related but some people don't seem to get well from the abx. There's still so much we don't know.
I do think it's good to be aware of it.
Do you think these rage symptoms are attributed to Lyme (Bb) directly? How about the co-infections? There are also many strains of borrelia... Is it a symptom of a particular strain?
I want to go out for a walk - so, I'll look this over in more detail later... I really do need to read everything to come to some sort of conclusion.
If violent behavior is directly related to Lyme - what do you think should be done in the case of public awareness? It kind of sets a dangerous precedent... It's good to have more awareness but what if it entails mandatory drugs or brain operations, etc.?
Again - I'm not trying to be insensitive to people's suffering.
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sparkle7
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PS - Alot of people with Fibro & CFS are not just misdiagnosed Lyme patients. Some may be but not all. I think some people diagnosed with Lyme may have something else wrong with them, too. Not Lyme. I think it goes both ways.
Especially since the discovery of XMRV... There are more things I could post but I really want to go outside before it gets too late.
Interesting discussion!
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sparkle7
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I don't know... it's a tricky subject. Found this article about Terry Joe Sedlacek. I guess well see what comes of it.
Church shooting suspect planned 'day of death,' prosecutor says
In this case, the evidence that he planned it out may contra-indicate "Lyme Rage"... Just an educated guess.
It's a really troubling issue, though.
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TerryK
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gregory. Thanks for sharing your story. I'm so glad treatment was successful!
Spark - CFS and FMS are both illnesses of unknown etiology. I agree that they might be caused by something other than lyme for some people but there is no doubt that a percentage (possibly a large percentage) actually have undiagnosed lyme or other infections. The symptoms overlap a great deal and there is even less diagnostic certainty with those illnesses than with lyme.
spark asked: Do you think these rage symptoms are attributed to Lyme (Bb) directly?
I'm far from an expert and have not carefully studied this aspect but from what I can tell by reading some of the studies over the years, lyme often causes encephalopathy as do some other infections. I believe it is the malfunctioning brain that is responsible for many of the psychiactric manifestations of lyme disease but again, I am no expert.
spark asked: If it came down to a court of law where someone was blaming a homicide on Lyme - do you think it would mitigate the sentencing?
I have no idea but since the IDSA do not acknowledge chronic lyme it seems unlikely that chronic lyme patients would be included under such an umbrella.
Spark wrote: It's good to have more awareness but what if it entails mandatory drugs or brain operations, etc.?
That seems very unlikely. There are many diseases that have aggression as a symptom. Traumatic brain injury, Schizophrenia, dementia etc. and to my knowledge, most patients have a right to refuse medication and brain surgery. That said, I'm sure under some circumstances some people are forced to take medication they don't want. For example if someone is committed to a mental institution their right to choose treatment can be taken away. That would not apply to a particular disease but more to the behavior.
Terry I'm not a doctor
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sparkle7
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It's a complicated issue. It's good to be aware.
Since I come from having CFS & Fibro diagnosis' - I think there are alot of people who get these illnesses & don't have Lyme. At this point, I even doubt my own Lyme diagnosis.
The symptoms overlap with so many other possible diagnosis'. I don't think it's good to assume it's all Lyme related. Just my opinion.
Especially since the treatment is long term abx... Taking abx over a long period of time is not something to do at the drop of a hat - so to speak. Some people have taken the long term abx & have gotten very ill due to side effects & not any better.
It's good to be a bit cautious about making assumptions. These things we are dealing with are quite complicated. This is just something I've learned over the years.
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Sparkle, I completely agree with you. Though I am about 75% sure I have Lyme, I am 25% in doubt. That can change depending on the day. I was dx'd with CFIDS and I have tried teh treatment for that, and I ahve tried the treatment for Lyme. So far...neither have made me better. Now, I am doing my own treatment and we will see.
I think *Lyme Rage* can happen with any of the BIG AI diseases, no? Seems like it...so to blame it on Lyme, though I have experienced it and I believe it IS from bugs in my brain, I think it can have other causes too...
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sparkle7
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There's good evidence that CFS can be caused by a lung parasite. It can also be a retrovirus... according to some scientists.
These things we deal with can be caused by many things. It's not good news but I think it's the reality of the situation.
After many years of studying these things - I would definately start off with a good anti-parasite cleanse. We really need to rule that out right off the bat.
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chiquita incognita
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Sparkle and everybody:
quote: "If violent behavior is directly related to Lyme - what do you think should be done in the case of public awareness? It kind of sets a dangerous precedent... It's good to have more awareness but what if it entails mandatory drugs or brain operations, etc.?
Again - I'm not trying to be insensitive to people's suffering."
I don't think that a lyme diagnosis necessarily means that a person will always incline toward violent behavior. That is an assumption. There would have to be actual tendencies and events for such a thing to happen to somebody.
I would like to weigh in with an observation, qualifying that I am not a doctor:
A) Everyone develops different symptoms. So a lyme dx would not necessitate a brain operation or an automatic "murderer" label as you fear, Sparkle. Only if someone actually developed seriously violent tendencies, then that becomes another matter.
B) Different inherent medical vulnerabilities, constitutional strengths and weaknesses, environmental toxicity exposure....all come into play. This determines, all acting together, which symptoms a person will manifest, given the exact same infection.
C) Many things can all cause the same symptoms, lyme is only one of them. You are right Sparkle that lyme would not be the sole cause.
That said, I maintain my doubts that all people would develop violent tendencies because of lyme, that' s not the record anyway.
Further, I maintain my doubts that this can *not* happen because of lyme.
My friends, please let us think. How is it possible for psychosis *not* to happen when the brain itself is infected? Neurotoxins?
Come on.
Once again, it's amazing to me that this does not happen more often.
If doctors have actually seen these violent tendencies and behaviors go away, if pscyhosis vanishes...from treating lyme (and other things too)...then why should we doubt it?
What experience and training informs our skepticism in this area?
Why can't we believe the doctors who have actually seen the matter go away with lyme treatment?
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TerryK
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raw and sparkle - The article was not saying that rage is always caused by lyme just that lyme can cause rage. I did not say that CFIDS and/or FMS is *always* lyme. If you look in the archives you will see some posts of mine that outline a number of possible causes for fibromyalgia.
I agree it is complicated. In my experience a well trained and experienced ILADS LLMD can sort it out. I'm sure mistakes are made. That can't be helped given the inadequate testing and overlapping symptoms for these illnesses.
5 years ago I thought about killing myself everyday. The pain was horrific and I was not getting any help for it depite trying numerous things. I also had a very long list of symptoms and I was getting more and more as the years rolled by.
I fit the CFIDS and FMS criteria perfectly. I was sick for decades and those diagnosis got me nothing but pallative care and whatever I could find on my own to try.
I am so much better now. Still a long ways to go but not dead like my sister who had an FMS diagnosis and the same symptoms that I have. She spent the last 10 years of her life very ill, bedridden and severely depressed with lots of other psychiactric symptoms as well. I know lyme disease or infection or whatever is being treated by my LLMD ultimately caused her death.
I did not post the article to start a debate or to upset anyone so I apologize if I have upset anyone.
In my view, the article and the author are valid and I hope some will get some benefit from it.
Terry I'm not a doctor
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sparkle7
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I'm sorry about your sister, TerryK.
I guess one way is to try some abx & see what happens. Sort of provoking a response just to see if a herx happens. In the 9 months I took abx - I really just got side effects - no real herxing. It's hard to differentiate symptoms, herxes, & side effects.
I think alot of illnesses can make people feel suicidal - chronic pain is really difficult. It's a different thing than aggressive behavior. I guess it is sort of like self-aggression...?
I didn't feel the article was the most tactful thing I've read but it does make a point. I think it is good to be aware. I wish more doctors were open-minded about how these illnesses can effect people's minds.
I just don't want to end up with electro-convulsive therapy due to a Lyme diagnosis. You know they still do it...
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chiquita incognita
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Do you know, I never thought I would reach the point of transcending my judgement of aggression and violence.
But maybe as lyme patients, we can begin to understand. Not love it or support it by any means, but understand. There is a big difference.
Maybe with our common humanity and our experience as lyme patients, judgement can begin to soften.
Once again I never thought I would reach this place. My god.
But do you know, we have to be compassionate toward a person whose nervous system is bug-infected. I mean, come on. What suffering! I feel sorry for them and they must suffer with the conflict of it too from within. Good god!
I still condemn and hate murderers who do so without regret and without remorse. Once again: Good god!! RRrrrgggg....
But then again they are not normal people, so maybe even they deserve our understanding somewhere.
I am not at that point however, and I won't pretend to be.
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klutzo
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A recent study proved that 94% of people who experience rages, as opposed to normal anger, have brain damage. No, I don't remember where I read this, sorry. I have a horrid memory thanks to Lyme.
My two cents:
I was a psychiatric social worker before Lyme and had ZERO temper, which is pretty much required for that career.
I have also had every psych test in the book before I was allowed to see patients, so I know I am clear of the type of psych disorders that normally cause rage.
I have had neuropsych testing since getting Lyme that proved severe brain damage, including the hypoperfusion expected with rage problems, and was told by that doctor that the number one symptom of such brain damage is "a complete inability to control one's temper".
I have had no ABX due to many allergies to all the ABX that kill it (yes, I was skin tested...sadly, they were not herxes but true allergic reactions).
I did Zhang, which failed, and then Cowden instead and herxed like crazy for four years on Samento. The herxing did indeed make my anger even worse and I had to stop taking the herbs to save my marriage.
I have been diagnosed in 2007 with an end stage disease, usually related to CFS, that will be terminal. I have dx's of both CFS and Fibro. I see no point in further herxing, but wish to feel as good as I can for the time I have left. I desperately want to stop these angry explosions.
For several years now I have had rages so intense they threaten my marriage, and have caused me to become a hermit, except for the very few long term close friends in my life who are very compatible with me and never make me angry. I had to cut many people out of my life, because their normal human flaws made me unbearably angry.
I do not ever have a rage for no reason. What I have is a response to real situations that is WAY over the top compared to normal anger.
It has caused us to have to put up 6 ft. high solid wood fencing all around our property to protect our awful neighbors from me. These people have done things that would cause plenty of anger in a normal person, but I get so angry that I want to kill them and, I can't control it.
It feels like I am possessed, though I don't believe in that. It scares the hell out of me that I may hurt someone, and it also makes my heart rate and blood pressure go crazy, well up into the stroke zone. I have measured a blood pressure of 230/114 during one rage! I fully expect it to kill me someday, probably by a stroke. In March alone, so far I have had 19 rages.
Interestingly, my blood pressure drug, Clonidine, which is primarily used for seizures, stops my rages once it kicks in. I take an extra dose if I can't stop a rage with Yoga breathing, which I usually can't, and in half an hour the drug works beautifully. I think that may be a clue to the origin of Lyme rage. Could it be some kind of Lyme-specific brain seizure?
I have seen 3 shrinks and 2 psychs and gotten zero help. They just do not understand this at all. Reactions ranged from trying to give me major, dangerous anti-psychotic drugs (1/4 dose made me suicidal and caused wild mood swings because I am not psychotic) to telling me to pray more, to doing a whole bunch of testing and then telling me I am one of the most well-adjusted persons she had ever seen. This non-help cost plenty too.
I have had four good Lyme friends for years now that I've made online, but none of them have rages, so they can't help me. I read this thread looking for help, since this is by far my biggest problem now, after 25 yrs. of the illness.
Instead, I came away from this thread feeling somewhat put down, and feel almost accused of having been secretly nuts all along, which I assure you I was not. As I said, I had no temper before and was endlessly tolerant and understanding.
I think we need to focus less on judgement and more on what can be done about this horror, since ABX does not always fix this, and I know of others like me who can't take ABX or afford an LLMD.
Sincerely wanting to be always kind, klutzo
Posts: 1269 | From Clearwater, Florida, USA | Registered: May 2004
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TerryK
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 8552
posted
Oh my gosh Klutzo, I didn't see your post until just now. Your story is heartbreaking. I'm so sorry for all that you've had to go through.
I'm so glad that the clonidine is helping. The article mentions some drugs that were found helpful.
In case 1 of the article, famvir is mentioned as being particularly helpful. Have you looked at viruses as something that you might have that could be treated?
You've been here for awhile so I have no doubt that you've heard about rife and other alternatives. If you haven't tried muscle testing it might really be worth a try.
I wish I had something miraculous to offer. I'll keep you in my prayers. I hope you get some answers soon.
Maybe someone else here has some answers?
Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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momlyme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 27775
posted
klutzo - have you been tested for heavy metals? If you are storing mercury or other heavy metals you will be zinc deficient or zinc-less. This can cause HPU - which is know to cause rage and even psychotic behavior.
I did our hair tests through Doctor's Data. If you go through Direct Labs you don't need a doctor's order.
As for the allergies, have you considered allergie immune?
-------------------- May health be with you!
Toxic mold was suppressing our immune systems, causing extreme pain, brain fog and magnifying symptoms. Four days after moving out, the healing began. Posts: 2007 | From NY/VT Border | Registered: Aug 2010
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sparkle7
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10397
posted
Sorry to read this klutzo. Do you think it's directly related to Lyme or something else?
I have had a CFS, Fibro & Lyme diagnosis at various stages of my life. I don't have anything close to what you mentioned. I have had some cognitive effects but what you describe is quite serious.
Do you think it could be related to some environmental toxin or brain allergy?
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