posted
I was discussing this a bit over on the "can you treat lyme, heavy metals, parasites at the same time" thread, but I thought it was becoming more specific to leaky gut, so I though it appropriates to start its own thread. Chiquita has of coures recommended Dr Liz Lipsk's shot book on the subject, but I also would like to suggest a link to an article by Leo Galland on Leaky gut which was mentioned by Karensky which contains a discussion on the lactulose/mannitol test for leaky gut
And finally I would like to mention betaine or HCL. I had a bit of a historu with betaine because before coming here I had some tough throat systems which I believed were coming from the acid reflux disease LPR. And since most people believe acd refux disease"is caused" by too much stomach acid I was quite surprised to find out that many folks were being helped by betaine/HCL. Counterintuitve to say the least. Now betaine may be helping through a variety of mechanisms, one of which would be for folks with hypochloridia, or too little stomach acid. There is evidence that this disorder is prevalent in folks over 50, but you hear almost nothing about it.
Though it is possible and beyond the scope of my understanding how betaine may be assisting general health, or how it is specifically invovlved with LGS ( Leaky gut syndrome). But since the cause of leaky gut seems to be strongly correlated with pathogenic agents then it might be logical to include that the extra acidity may be killing them and therfore helping LGS symptoms.
I don't mean to imply I thought of this since I have seen the general implication brought forth previously, but it does seem to have a simple logic going for it
Posts: 357 | From California | Registered: Jun 2010
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posted
Thx Mattnapa for posting this article...the lactulose/mannitol test
seems to be the one to start with according to this article...this is
the only test I have come across until reading above article ...
what does he mean by the "direct permeability assay " test as being
the more definative I wonder and what exactly is this test ?
-------------------- "Gratitude is not only the greatest of virtues , but the parent of all others "....Cicero Posts: 254 | From new jersey | Registered: Jul 2009
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posted
Hi Mattnapa again...The betaine HCI is indicated for
Hypochlorhydria....in Lipsky's book , she says half the people over
the age of 60 have this due to aging's effect of lowering stomach
acid...the betaine adds back the acid some people may be lacking
and that helps with digestion in general...
-------------------- "Gratitude is not only the greatest of virtues , but the parent of all others "....Cicero Posts: 254 | From new jersey | Registered: Jul 2009
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chiquita incognita
Unregistered
posted
Hi Mattnapa Yes in my best understanding, the stomach acids kill off unfriendly bugs and that is why lack thereof could contribute to a leaky gut. Not to mention that foods will be only part digested and this could cause inflammation. Which again can irritate the digestive lining, leading to leaky gut.
I am not a doctor, so this could be off in left field. But I wonder: If there is hypochlorhydria (low stomach acid) could it be connected to low thyroid issues? It would be interesting to ask and find out.
I love Dr Galland's article and consider it one to show a physician not familiar wiht leaky gut. It is so good that he writes about testing ins and outs, and protocols et al.
Another thing he mentions which is really important, that the liver bile goes toxic from leaky gut and the health impacts of this. Not at all funny.
Thank God leaky gut is one of those things with a simple matter at its root, even if it makes a big loud noise in the body.
Big problems, simple solutions. That is something this illness has taught me.
posted
PS after reading Dr Galland's article I became convinced that to detoxify....well probably anything,but in particular heavy metals....is absolutely not at all a good idea where leaky gut exists.
We would be way too vulnerable to excess bodily toxicity, and blood toxicity, if detoxing with leaky gut.
And probably, to auto-immune attack especially when detoxing heavy metals.
If it was me, I would want to seal up the gut lining prior to commencing any detox therapy. I can't advise anybody else and the reader should always check with his/her doctor (show them Dr Galland's article first, above and ask them to read it if they are not alternative medicine docs, they won't have heard of leaky gut): My own thought is that I wouldn't even want to start lyme kill-off therapy prior to sealing up the gut lining.
I think sealing it off enables us to deal much better with toxicity issues and therefore with herxing et al.
Toning up the liver would be important too, and the kidneys.
AGain I can't advise anybody else and offer these thoughts only as what I would want to be doing for myself, and that people should ask their doctor prior to following any "advice". Because this is definitely not medical advice. I am not a doctor. This is only a layperson thinking out loud.
lymie_in_md
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14197
posted
Your right CI, you should always go see the doctor. The doctor armed with 1 semester of nutrition, which is already forgotten. And needs a GPS to navigate what is leaky gut. If I mentioned leaky gut to my PCP, he'd probably want to ask me what this is.
But I certainly appreciate the qualification, because we have to have such qualifications otherwise we might get in trouble with the medical gestapo.
We are now in a society where we are to be protected from ourselves. In such society we are no longer free. We might buy supplements not in approval within the medical establishment a huge crime.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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CI--what kinds of things would you do to seal up a leaky gut? I have an appt tomorrow w/ a naturopathic dr. (first time) followed by an appt w/ the LLNP that I have been seeing (they are in the same practice).
At these appts we will be addressing recent testing that shows I have issues w/ heavy metals and parasite testing that also indicated candida overgrowth.
Want to make sure I ruled everything out before figuring out how to proceed!
Posts: 376 | From New York | Registered: Jan 2011
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lymie_in_md
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14197
posted
Anna -- The body will allow candida to overgrow. Candida houses mercury thus protecting the body from it, the body allows candida a pass. Its a trade-off, having candida housing mercury is better then mercury destroying tissue.
The body is extremely intelligent and is always in a mode of self preservation. When the mercury goes so goes the candida. So do all you can to get rid of mercury, lead, cadmium and so on.
The problem is candida doesn't want to let it go. So you still have to deal with candida.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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posted
Bob- while I like what you say about the body having intelligence, I think the opposing thought ought to be kept in mind as well. Namely that parasites and pathogens seem to have an intelligence, or at least an instinct for survival,to manipulate our bodies for their own purposes as well. So I think this can make the analysis of how candida and other organisms are contained a difficult determination as to whether or not it is the best our bodies can do. After all it is the intent of pathogen to trick our immune system, so determining whether the immune system is knowngly responding seems like a tricky determination
[ 05-11-2011, 10:33 PM: Message edited by: mattnapa ]
Posts: 357 | From California | Registered: Jun 2010
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this explains how to do a very simple test at home to determine
your levels of stomach acid...this may be a good first step to
then determine whether the subject needs to come up with your
doc...ie : if taking betaine helps the body ( as one of the many
steps involved ) absorb and transport the nutrients it needs to
the appropriate organs then it helps strengthen the body in
general...thus helping to improve the natural ability to fight off
infection etc...whatever doesn't kill us , makes us stronger !
I don't know if I am making a lot of sense here...excuse me if I
am not...it is clear enough in my head...but sometimes the
nuero "issues" get in the way of disseminating my thoughts
clearly...so take this as just another bit of "grist for the mill" for
whatever it is worth...
-------------------- "Gratitude is not only the greatest of virtues , but the parent of all others "....Cicero Posts: 254 | From new jersey | Registered: Jul 2009
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philly78
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 31069
posted
I just started taking the Betaine HCL. It is actually working quite well for me. I'm only 33 and everything I had read online discussed people over 50 having low HCL so I wasn't sure if that was what was really going on with me.
Anyway, I tried the HCL after doing the at home test mentioned above. It took me 12 minutes to burp.
I did mention it to my LLMD at my last appt and he said I was kinda young to have this problem but gave the HCL anyway and told me to be careful when taking it.
I took it, had no side effects, and am not having the pain and fullness feelings after eating anymore. So I guess it's doing what it is supposed to do.
-------------------- When faced with pain you have two choices....either quit and accept the circumstances, OR make the decision to fight with all the resources you have at your disposal. Posts: 1000 | From PA | Registered: Mar 2011
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posted
I believe it was the answer for me too as far as the bloating and
full feeling ...also my anxiety levels decreased substantially...I think
due to better Vit B absorption...even lasted a few weeks after
running out of it before kicking back in...I bought more and am
back on it again...
-------------------- "Gratitude is not only the greatest of virtues , but the parent of all others "....Cicero Posts: 254 | From new jersey | Registered: Jul 2009
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Razzle
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 30398
posted
One caution about Betain: It may not be safe to take if one has a stomach ulcer or inflammation in the lining of the stomach.
Also, those who have certain specific Genomic variants may not be able to tolerate Betain (TMG) until other nutrients are provided to support the variant genes that affect a person's methylation cycle (& related cycles).
-------------------- -Razzle Lyme IgM IGeneX Pos. 18+++, 23-25+, 30++, 31+, 34++, 39 IND, 83-93 IND; IgG IGeneX Neg. 30+, 39 IND; Mayo/CDC Pos. IgM 23+, 39+; IgG Mayo/CDC Neg. band 41+; Bart. (clinical dx; Fry Labs neg. for all coinfections), sx >30 yrs. Posts: 4166 | From WA | Registered: Feb 2011
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posted
Thx Razzle for the warning ! I suppose there would be pain if there
was an ulcer present and so one would know to stop it if previuosly
unaware of an ulcer...as far as the genes aspect...any suggestions
on how one would go about finding out if that is an issue ?
thx again...great advice !
-------------------- "Gratitude is not only the greatest of virtues , but the parent of all others "....Cicero Posts: 254 | From new jersey | Registered: Jul 2009
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