posted
I read a lot about people detoxing while treating lyme and/or co-infections and wonder what people consider detoxing?
Is detoxing for lyme/co-infections different/similar from detoxing for heavy metals?
Is drinking hot lemon water and using a sauna detoxing?
What about certain supplements like andographis to support the liver? Is that considered some form of detox?
I feel confused when it comes to detoxing! Thanks.
Posts: 376 | From New York | Registered: Jan 2011
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chiquita incognita
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Hi Anna
A detox tea which I like, this is a gentle support, is called Polari-Tea, you can google it. I also linked it on a thread I titled "A Detox Tea Which I like" (having computer troubles, can't get the link right now til the problem is fixed, sorry).
This is a gentle support and not an intensive as required for herx detox support. I would use this for daily support of the liver, adding milk thistle seed and marshmallow root to the mix (caution: Take marshmallow root three hours apart from meds, writes herbalist on www.healthy.net)
To detoxify the poisons secreted by the bugs, and their remains after they die, I think the product by Dr Schulz called Intestinal Formula #2 is really good. This would be something I might use during herxing. You will have to drink lots and lots of water to be sure the bentonite clay in the product does not constipate you.
Chlorella can be helpful, you will need lots of it. This binds with unwanted substances and helps your body to safely eliminate them.
Charcoal, bentonite clay and other clays absorb toxins and then you can flush them out of the body.
Apple pectin binds with heavy metals in the gut and aids their safe elimination. Won't pull metals out of cells though, for this you need cilantro and chlorella alongside as detoxifier. A really good product for heavy metal cleansing is by Metagenics called MetalloClear. My acupuncturist thinks this is frankly the safest formula out there, because it aids the liver's own ability to detox the metals once pulled out of hte cells. Other products may pull metals out of the cells but what is to detox them once out? By boosting the liver's own detox mechanisms specific to heavy metals, this product is one of the better ones, he thinks.
Milk thistle has been studied and seen in multiple studies to protect the liver from even noxious poisons such as the deathly aminita mushroom toxin. Laboratory rats pre-treated by injection with milk thistle constituents silybin or silymarin, and thereafter fed the poison aminita mushroom, show 100% protection from the fatal toxins which cause liver hemorrhage and death, according to Potters Herbal Cyclopedia. More than 100 studies on PUbmed testify to its ability to protect the body from radiation-induced tumors and it is used as adjunct in cancer chemoatherapy plus radiation therapy to minimize side effects. IT is a powerful liver protector, thought to bind with receptor sites and thus protect from the uptake of toxins.
Schizandra, ginger also are liver protectors but none is as powerful as milk thistle. Milk thistle also has been studied and seen to aid the growth of new liver cells.
Andrographis will boost some liver bile but is not a detoxifier, per se. Instead, it boosts the body's immune defenses, aiding its ability to tackle the job of killing off infections of various kinds. It is very anti-malarial (more than 80% success rate according to studies mentioned in Buhner's book) and anti-spirochetal.
Other herbs in the andrographis class which contain berberine, an anti-biotic herbal constituent, are goldenseal, barberry, oregon grape root, coptis, a few others...these all will not be detoxifiers per se but will have immune-benefiting impact with antibiotic properties. They benefit the linings of organs like the digestive tract. This *is* important to keeping your system clear from toxins, even if they don't act as cleansers themselves, per se.
Bitter-tasting herbs like dandelion root, mugwort, artemesia (and the constituent artemesinin), yarrow, other bitter herbs...will stimulate bile flow from the liver (which breaks down fats and cholesterols) and will also aid detoxification.
Yes lemon water can be a detoxifier but not strong enough for herxing. I think it's good for ongoing support, so long as you don't become hyperacidic.
CAUTION: If you tend to be hyperacidic, then bile-stimulating herbs and lemon will cause gastric hyperacidity. Bile is acidic. Most people who dont' tend to be hyperacidic can take bile stimulants without any problem.
If hyperacidity or reflux develops, stop using the herb.
That's probably more info than you ever wanted to know...oy! Hope this is helpful and not confusing. Sorry! I am not good this way...
Best wishes, CI
The above information has not been evaluated by the FDA and products above are not intended to diagose, cure or prevent any disease.
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sixgoofykids
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CI is pretty complete.
One thing she didn't mention that I had great results with are coffee enemas. They increase glutathione production, the idea isn't to clean out the bowel, but stimulate the liver.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
Zeolite plain helps detox too but there may be cautions if you are dealing with
heavy metals as you do not want to draw more out if already dealing
-------------------- Not everything in life that can be counted counts and not every thing that counts can be counted...Albert Einstein Posts: 208 | From Northeast | Registered: Aug 2010
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Thanks. I have been taking milk thistle (capsules) and a ton of other supplements but wasn't sure if any of them are considered detoxing.
CI--as always a lot of good info. Do you follow a certain protocol (i.e. Cowden, Klinghardt etc) or just experiment?
It is all so confusing. I wish I had more of a background. I get my amalgams out on Friday and then need to figure out the next step in my plan. Is there a detox book for dummies out there?!
Posts: 376 | From New York | Registered: Jan 2011
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chiquita incognita
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Hi Anna A couple of books:
Foundations of Health Natural Therapy for your Liver Healthy Healing (reference book in healthfood stores)
Here is a bullet point list of herbs for various cleansing benefits:
Kidney cleansing support:
Nettles Cleavers Celery seed Dandelion leaf (diuretic but replaces any excreted potassium! Wisdom to this, eh?) Hydrangea root Juniper berries (for short term use only, caution) Corn silk especially where there is inflammation Lots more....
For lymph cleansing especially as spirochetes die off:
Red root Echinacea (use only for ten days then stop, unless in very small dosages when it's okay for longterm use. Do not use standard dose for more than ten days)
Myrrh (pretty bitter, ugh)
For gut lining support:
Marshmallow root very, very soothing to inflamed gut tissues (Caution: Take three hours apart from meds, writes herbalist on www.healthy.net site) Meadowsweet ditto, used for ulcers, also the herb from which aspirin used to be made yet it won't hurt the stomach Calendula (marigold) flowers, very antifungal, may aid wound healing if there are cracks, fissures, permeability, etc Gamma oryzanol from rice bran oil, used for rebuilding a compromised/permeable gut lining Probiotics
Foods that aid colon cleansing:
Cucumber (especially if juiced) High fiber foods, whole grains, psyllium husks Avoid meats and dairy during cleanse
Keeping the gut lining strong is part of keeping your body less toxic, very very very important!!! I think this is just as important as taking probiotics with abx therapy. To pair up abx with marshmallow root and meadowsweet plus probiotics may be terribly important! Read more: Leaky Gut Syndrome by Elizabeth Lipski, CCN MS
Where to get meadowsweet, it's hard to find:
Star West Botanicals in CA they check their herbs for heavy metals et al.
Diet during herxing and cleansing:
Lots of fresh vegetables and juices High fiber foods, whole grains If possible avoid meats, greasy foods and dairy and sugar for the herx period. Chinese food, vegetarian stir fries are excellent Vegetarian soups Fresh vegetable juices, ideal as support Mediterranean foods, hummus, yogurt and probiotic rich foods (because the fermentation makes them more digestible than other dairy products)
Stay away from food allergens, even more important than detoxifying in some cases. Food allergies can be minor or can cause severe neuro issues and more besides. Depends on the allergy and the severity. Allergies compromise immune function, avoid.
Permanently avoid all hyrogenated oils, they are far more artery-clogging and heart dangerous than butter!! Will inhibit immunity. Ten years after margarine was introduced to the market, heart disease rates skyrocketed. Crisco should not even be considered food, this is carcinogenic due to all the immune-inhibiting chemicals, not to mention artery-clogging hydrogenation of oils....why is the FDA allowing such "foods" on the market? What is the intention? Careful!
Aspartame has been associated with fibromyalgia and brain tumors, according to several docs and nutritionists I have read. Avoid artificial sweeteners, they are all similar in this respect.
Stevia is anti-fungal and cultures which eat it are seen to have the lowest rates of diabetes and hypoglycemia world wide, according to several sources I have read. An acquired taste, admittedly.
I use agave nectar only on occasion and carefully. It can irritate the gut lining, reduce vitamin K in the body and contains more fructose than corn syrup! But also does bypass the blood sugar curve at least initially. But longterm use will throw blood sugar balance off, avoid heavy use. Moderate may be okay but it will feed Candida, caution.
Avoid sugar, it depletes immunity. Wah!! I know, it's hard...
posted
Thank you CI! It does help! How do you decide though which to take?
Were you advised on a cocktail of herbs or does your dr. help choose?
Also are these things meant for just a general cleanse vs. cleansing for heavy metals?
Have you detoxed for heavy metals before?
If yes, would you recommend a specific protocol like Cowden/Klinghardt or do people just experiment?
I guess I am feeling I need someone to tell me (not sure who that person to be) to do x,y and z. My knowledge is too limited to pick and choose and w/ having 2 little boys, planning on returning to work in the fall, and having a husband who works a ton my time is so limited in terms of research.
I do most of my research via this site (asking others and checking out the links/and info you all share and then going back to my LLNP and now a naturopathic dr. w/ questions).
Thank you SO much for your help/time w/ my questions!
Posts: 376 | From New York | Registered: Jan 2011
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philly78
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Wow. There is some very useful information in thread! I'm bookmarking it for future use.
-------------------- When faced with pain you have two choices....either quit and accept the circumstances, OR make the decision to fight with all the resources you have at your disposal. Posts: 1000 | From PA | Registered: Mar 2011
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posted
WOw thats a lot of info to remember. I take chlorella and charcoal in the afternoon..long after my abx and supplements
I do take milk thistle, fish oil, D-3, vitamin C,magnesium, methyl injections, marshmallow root, COQ ubinquol, and epson salt.peroxide.baking soda baths a few times a week.
I also have an infrared sauna which I will be honest I have not used yet since it come with no instructions and I dont know how to adjust the heat or how long to use it for lyme?
-------------------- Diagnosed with chronic neuro lyme 12/10 after 30 years of vertigo.2 tick bites in 3 yrs from upstate NY. Was on omincef for nine mths..zith and rifampin stopped.Remission~ All the pain and symptoms are back and I am not treating now with biaxin. Posts: 788 | From New york..queens | Registered: Nov 2010
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canefan17
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Is chlorella a risk now after Japan disaster?
Posts: 5394 | From Houston, Tx | Registered: Aug 2009
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chiquita incognita
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Hi you guys! Canefan, I don'nt know of any clean sources but what I am *assuming* is that the product by New Chapter Organics is okay because they grow their own herbs in Costa Rica. Biodynamic, not just organic. So that is the product I am using, based on an *assumption* which needs to be checked out. You never know if they get their chlorella from somewhere else...worth asking. I so much trust their products, extremely high quality.
Anna, to answer your questions:
It really depends on what your needs are at the time.
Given what you are already taking, I would suggest that during herxing to do the lymph cleansers would be key, Red root, echinacea together would be ideal
Take echinacea no more than ten days then stop. Only okay for longterm use in very small dosages, but not for longterm use otherwise.
I would also do the binders like chlorella, clay, pectin, fibers so the Dr Schulz Intestinal Formula #2 would be really helpful during herxing. It would absorb, bind and remove toxins efficiently during this time.
At the same time during herxing, I would be doing lots and lots of fluids (juices, veg.soups, etc) and the lymph cleansers (to remove any old bug skeletons, reduce gland swelling especially if throat is swollen) and extra liver support herbs.
Herbs work best in combinations rather than alone. So to do a liver support product, would eb best to combine milk thistle, dandelion root, etc just as most herbal liver support products do.
I really like the GAIA Herbs Milk Thistle Yellow Dock tincture but it is in an alchohol base. Wish it wasn't. Otherwise it really is very good.
Hope this helps.
BEst wishes, CI ps this is for adjunct support not medical treatment. Be sure to ask your doctor about drug-herb interactions.
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chiquita incognita
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To determine which detox needs a person may have:
If skin rashes, boils, eczema, etc usually herbalists say to do blood cleansers.
If bad breath, chlorella or other chlorophyll, liver cleansing
If digestive stagnation, gas, bloating, etc liver-colon cleansing
If swollen glands, fatigue, stagnation, swelling, lymph cleansing (during herx's the skeletal remains of dead bugs will be washed out via the lymph, to cleanse the lymph during herxing would be important. Red root really good for dealing with skeletal matter, echinacea good for lymph cleansing)
If joint pains, swelling of hands and face, water retention, kidney cleansing to reduce uric acid buildup
It would be important to support the liver all along, and liver plus lymph during herxing especially. Plus binders/absorbers to clean up toxins during herxing.
Hope this helps, just as basic indicators .These are not hard and fast rules, only indicators, and needs will vary. Don't self-diagnose and that is not the intention here.
I am not a doctor so check this out carefully with your doctor and make sure you read further. From highly trustworthy sources.
Further reading:
www.healthy.net highly reliable information only renowned naturopaths post here
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