posted
Hi! This is blownelk�s fianc�. He has had pain when urinating for months now, it has gotten steadily worse to the point of being unbearable. We had him tested for a UTI, which came back negative.
His LLMD had no suggestions. He�s been taking Milk Thistle because his liver counts were high. He has stopped all other Lyme antibiotics to make sure it was not making liver/kidneys worse.
The family doctor found that bloating is a side effect of Milk Thistle, so he has stopped taking that also.
Last week his family doc did a sonogram. Yesterday they called with the news that he has a kidney stone. Could this be caused by Lyme and co-infections? Or would it be more likely a result of a vigorous detox that he was on for 7 months? LLMD was giving Vitamins and a detox fluid via IV once a month.
He always experienced some abdominal pain for about 3-4 days after his monthly detox. In March the pain had gotten so bad that he told the LLMD he didn�t want to do it anymore, so he hasn�t had one for the last couple of months.
I�m so worried about him. As if all of his many Lyme pains were not enough. He�s always eaten healthy (fruits and vegetables don�t spoil in our house, no manner how much I buy they all disappear!) and he drinks water like there�s no tomorrow, even before Lyme.
Do any of you have experience of having kidney stones while treating for Lyme? Oh, and he has also had difficulty with bowel movements, could this be due to the kidney stone too?
Thank you in advance for the help. You all have been a tremendous blessing to us in our Lyme journey!
Posts: 63 | From Millersville, PA | Registered: Jul 2010
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posted
I doubt kidney stones have any relation to Lyme, A co-worker just had a kidney stone and she definitely does not have lyme--very healthy.
If he passes the kidney stone the doctor can get it analyzed for what it is made of and that might help determine what foods to avoid. I know cranberry juice is one of the worst foods to consume when one has a history of kidney stones.
Lee
-------------------- "The race has already been won." Posts: 74 | From midwest | Registered: Dec 2009
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posted
Ouch... sorry to hear!! I don't think there is a connection either.
Hope he feels better very soon!!!!!
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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chiquita incognita
Unregistered
posted
Linda Rector Page,ND in her book Healthy Healing (reference book in most healthfood stores) has a page about kidney stones. It's bullet points so a lot is packed onto one page.
Lots and lots of water. Sometimes excess uric acids, oxalates and other salts condense to form kidney stones, the result of dehydration, according to Dr Page. Flushing is really important.
Some tap water may have excess calcium, it's often calcium metabolism issues that cause kidney stones. Use filtered water (multipure is really good www.multipure.com) BRita filter will only take out some chlorine but not a long, long list of chemicals that the multipure will do. This is important for kidney health. Chemicals will impact kidney function, so a filter will be important as part of maintenance thereafter. Not the whole picture but also an important part of it, yes. Chlorine will dry out tissues fyi, chloramine is even worse (and carcinogenic).
There are herbs to use as diuretics, to soothe kidney and bladder tissue and facilitate excretion of kidney stones...but it sounds like your doc is not very into herbs so I won't recommend.
posted
Thank you all for the advice! I will certainly check out the links mentioned.
I had a friend of a friend that dealt with lots of kidney stones who swears by cranberry juice. Hmmm... He's been drinking some organic cranberry juice and it seems to be one of the few things to help so far.
We only drink country well water (with a filter on it also) or bottled water purified with reverse osmosis. So at lease the Chlorine isn't an issue.
I almost wonder if it is not a result of the Lyme so much as maybe something he took for the Lyme. At his next appointment I intend to ask exactly what was in the Vitamin drip he was getting. I wonder if it might have included calcium.
Any other thoughts on the matter are certainly welcome. For now we will look forward to the apointment with the Urologist.
Posts: 63 | From Millersville, PA | Registered: Jul 2010
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Carol in PA
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 5338
Magnesium inhibits the formation of calcium-oxalate crystals in the urine.
In one study 55 patients with recurrent kidney stones were given magnesium daily for 4 years.
...85% of the patients remained stone free, compared to only 41% of the others who did not receive magnesium.
. My comment: This means that 59% of patients who did NOT take magnesium got another kidney stone, but only 15% who did take magnesium got more stones.
Posts: 6947 | From Lancaster, PA | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
There is a relationship between high oxalates and kidney stones.
You can research a low oxalate diet.
Also, yeast overgrowth (which he probably has if he's been on abx) can produce oxalates.
I've read calcium citrate can help and magnesium supplements taken by themselves can hurt. Transdermal magnesium is said to help, however.
Epsom salts are a safe way to help reduce oxalate levels (epsom salts are magnesium sulfate).
-------------------- Garden
"Fibromylagia" for 8+ years Pos IgeneX WB per both Igenex and CDC Pos Neuroscience MyLymeImmuneID Started tx for Lyme in March 2011 Posts: 245 | From East Coast | Registered: May 2011
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chiquita incognita
Unregistered
posted
I ditto all the above. It's a calcium metabolism issue, in part plus infection, so it's not just about what's in the water.
Dehydration can play a role
Cranberry juice is more for the bladder, prevents clinging of E Coli to bladder but I suppose it could help support the kidneys too.
posted
I had a kidney stone a little over a year ago. It's not much fun...
It's most likely an oxalate stone but it doesn't necessarily have to be. So the advice here, while most of it is good, isn't guaranteed to provide any benefit if he happens to have one of the rarer types, such as from uric acid.
What the urologist should do (or he should be asked for), is a 24 hr. urine test. My urologist gave me the pamphlet and place to call, and they just mail this big container in which you... well, pee in, for the entire day. Then you pack it up and mail it to the lab.
The results will show oxalates, calcium, magnesium, uric acid and a whole bunch of other stuff (in nice graph form too).
The urologist may also recommend a strainer, to collect the kidney stone itself, when passed (assuming it can be passed) and they can analyze the stone itself.
If an oxalate stone, a low oxalate diet can be helpful, as others have mentioned here. Citrates can help, and he may be prescribed potassium citrate. Mag citrate is another option (I think other magnesiums could possibly help too). I never read anywhere that calcium citrate, however, as Garden mentioned would be the preferred form of citrate (seems counterproductive to me) and that other forms of magnesium could be harmful (don't see why that would be the case).
IP-6 is a supplement that may have some benefits as well (used in Japan).
And the most common advice given to patients who have had kidney stones: drink lots of water.
Posts: 584 | From NY | Registered: Feb 2009
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"Third, magnesium oxalates are much more soluble than calcium oxalates. Thus, if magnesium supplements are given by themselves, oxalates from food or yeast/fungal sources that combine with magnesium are much more likely to be absorbed than calcium oxalates. However, transdermal magnesium or magnesium from Epsom salts baths that enters the blood and tissues through the skin might help to dissolve calcium or mercury oxalate crystals that had already formed in the blood or tissues"
It's just food for thought. I think going to the urologist is a great next step, and you can see what is most appropriate for his situation - esp., since as Lemon-Lyme pointed out, it might not be oxalates at all.
-------------------- Garden
"Fibromylagia" for 8+ years Pos IgeneX WB per both Igenex and CDC Pos Neuroscience MyLymeImmuneID Started tx for Lyme in March 2011 Posts: 245 | From East Coast | Registered: May 2011
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posted
Water--I was told to start drinking 3 quarts daily. It's a lot, and I'm a small person, but it helps. I use a quart water bottle and put 3 stickers on it every morning, and take one off each time I finish it to keep track.
-------------------- ------------ It took 20 years to find out I'm not crazy. New bite in 2010 pushed my body over the edge. Positive for lyme, babs, bart, and myco. I am not a doctor and happily offer only my own opinions. Posts: 357 | From The Beach | Registered: Feb 2011
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chiquita incognita
Unregistered
posted
There are various types and causes of kidney stones, as stressed by people here.
All these are addressed in Linda Rector Page, ND's book HealthY Healing, a reference book in healthfood stores and one which I heartily recommend for home ownership (no profits as I write!) Contains one-page quick-glance format pages in which you look up ailments and natural home remedies you can do, lists causes, etc.
Also see www.healthy.net only the most renowned naturopaths post here, it' s highly trustworthy information.
posted
Okay, so we met with the Kidney dr yesterday, turns out it is only a possiblity of a kidney stone, and she's fairly certain that the "stone" they saw on the sonogram is not the cause of the trouble passing urine.
So in another week I'll take him to a urologist. Hopefully they will offer some answers/relief. In the meantime, he's continuing with the cranberry juice, and I will see about some of these other links/ideas you all have posted.
Sometimes I feel like we get so busy with just getting along and going to dr apointments that there's not enough time in the day to research.
Has anyone had bladder issues from Bartonella or Babesia? I'm beginning to wonder if one of these is the culprit here.
Posts: 63 | From Millersville, PA | Registered: Jul 2010
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gwb
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7273
posted
If it is a stone, this is one of the more popular home remedies that seems to be pretty effective for those who use it.
Lemon Juice, Olive Oil & Raw Apple Cider Vinegar
This is one of the easiest and most effective remedies for kidney stones AND the pain you may be experiencing. At the first symptom of stone pain, start by mixing 2 oz of organic olive oil with 2 oz of organic lemon juice.
Drink it straight down and follow with a 12 ounce glass of purified water. Wait 30 minutes. Then, squeeze the juice of 1/2 lemon in 12 ounces of purified water, add 1 tablespoon of organic raw apple cider vinegar and drink.
Repeat the lemon juice, water and apple cider vinegar recipe every hour until symptoms improve.
posted
Thank you Gary! He's allergic to olive oil, so mabye I'll have him try the lemon, water, and cider vinegar.
Posts: 63 | From Millersville, PA | Registered: Jul 2010
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posted
So I have an update! We took blownelk to the Urologist again yesterday. He gave us the results from a CT scan they did a week ago and guess what!!
There are no kidney stones after all! The first good news we've had in a long time. There's no blockage, no scarring, the scan was "perfect."
So the urologist (who miraculously beleives in lyme) says there's nothing he can do for him and so now we will proceed with treating Lyme and co-infections.
I think this may be a good case to testify the amount of damage these bugs can do to the GI tract AND the bladder.
Posts: 63 | From Millersville, PA | Registered: Jul 2010
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