My wife and i have been going through symptoms of lymes disease for at least 6 months. maybe longer. I will try to make this short, need advice. The reasons i suspect lymes
1 reasonably, at least 40 symptoms 2 avid hunter 3 live in the woods(heavy deer area in wa state) 4 we raise labradors 5 one dog gets loose and runs all over 6 the above dog, will not gain weight (suspect lyme in her) 7. My neighbors have 3 kids and one is a teacher, we get ill 4 or 5 times more often than them(thinking coinfections we have no kids)
I was on pain killers for years due to injury and aches and pains( I think it may have masked alot of symptoms)
I have had several blood tests over the last six months. 1. one test showed slight increase in white blood cells. 2. thyroid medicine was increased from 100mg day to 250 mg day, i dont know the results from the test 3. vitamin d was at 21 now after a month of 50k mu a day is only at 22, now dr doubled it 4. I just had a ab test and it showed Igg at .45 dr. said negative. 5. dr. is a moron, knows nothing about lymes
where do i go next. I am thinking about ordering doxy through a pet store.
1 can i demand a western blot test? 2 does anyone know if i can send to igenex myself if i pay for it? (really cant afford it) 3. does anyone know what a .45 means on an igg ab test?
I hope this makes sense and isnt too long thanks in advance for all help rob
-------------------- Help I am being forced against my will to learn medicine!!! Posts: 164 | From WASHINGTON | Registered: Jun 2011
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posted
I never heard of a .45 on an IgG.... Is it possibly the ELISA???
You can order a Western Blot test kit from Igenex for free. When you get YOUR DOCTOR TO SIGN OFF ON IT and send the bloodwork in, you send the money then. It will cost around $200.
posted
Anything is possible with my dr., I know ten times more than she does about lyme. She told me that was the result of the western blot. It could have been an elisa test, but my request shows lyme ab screen. I have not been able to get my tests in writing yet. this is a phone result. Can you get doxy w/o a prescription?
-------------------- Help I am being forced against my will to learn medicine!!! Posts: 164 | From WASHINGTON | Registered: Jun 2011
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posted
There IS a band 45. But the "ab screen" sounds like the ELISA. Ask your dr to mail a copy of the test results to you.
You can get doxy without a prescription if you buy it from India or somewhere or Mexico. I thought you could get it from Canada, but someone said you have to have a script for it there.
Doxy is NOT expensive. You could get it for $4 from WalMart.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96223 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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posted
oh i only saw two drs. on the list, both naturopahth. I dont know what that is, but i will research. This is the first real illness i have ever faced. but i am learning
-------------------- Help I am being forced against my will to learn medicine!!! Posts: 164 | From WASHINGTON | Registered: Jun 2011
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lymeinhell
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 4622
posted
Skip the rheumy and find a Lyme Literate Medical Doctor (LLMD). Please put a post in the 'Seeking a Doctor' section.
You can 'demand' a western blot - however, it needs to be one done by IgeneX and the results interpreted alongside your symptoms by someone that has a clue about Lyme (a rheumy NOT being one of them).
So save your $$ by skipping the 'specialists' covered by your insurance and cut to the chase - if it is lyme, the time saved may be critical. I made that same mistake and wasted 9 months and hundreds and hundreds on copays and useless tests, all the while getting sicker and sicker.
-------------------- Julie _ _ ___ _ _ lymeinhell
Blessed are those who expect nothing, for they shall not be disappointed. Posts: 2258 | From a better place than I was 11 yrs ago | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
Thanks, but what does it mean? If its a lyme ab test why is there anything at all. If what they say is true? I read there are 12 different strains of lyme. Is it possible its only a partial reading due to a different west coast strain? thanks again
-------------------- Help I am being forced against my will to learn medicine!!! Posts: 164 | From WASHINGTON | Registered: Jun 2011
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Borrelia is a very sneaky bacteria, which makes it hard to test for unless you have a doctor who knows about Lyme Disease and can properly interpret the results of a Western Blot test.
The ELISA test only tests for antibodies and is very inaccurate. There are many, many reasons why you may not have antibodies. .45 on the ELISA means you DO have antibodies, just not at a high enough level to constitute a "positive" result, according to the CDC (who are a bunch of idiots when it comes to Lyme Disease, anyway).
At least that is MY understanding of the ELISA results. A result of ZERO would mean you have no antibodies at all, but a numerical result of some kind means the antibodies are there, just in very minute concentrations.
Posts: 156 | From Virginia | Registered: May 2011
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posted
That is my thoughts, If i have a reading at all for lyme ab, Then i would think I have some amt of lyme. Like you say a 0 would mean no lyme,doesnt make any sense to me. thanks again
-------------------- Help I am being forced against my will to learn medicine!!! Posts: 164 | From WASHINGTON | Registered: Jun 2011
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TF
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 14183
posted
The ELISA (and the Western Blot) do NOT look for the lyme bacteria in your blood. Instead, they look to see if your blood has any lyme antibodies in it.
That is the main thing to understand. The ELISA test did not find lyme in your blood. It doesn't even look for lyme in your blood. Tests that actually look for lyme in the blood are not generally available commercially.
All that is available is an indirect test--an antibody (ab) test.
You make antibodies when you are exposed to a certain germ. But, when you register a few "lyme" antibodies, they are really NOT antibodies specific only to lyme. They can be antibodies that indicate you were once exposed to a germ SIMILAR to lyme.
And, you have antibodies to various diseases floating around in your blood all the time (like tetanus antibodies if you ever had a tetanus shot, measles antibodies if you ever had measles, etc.), but that doesn't mean that you actually have these diseases NOW. Antibodies do NOT equal disease.
That's why they don't think .45 is enough to say you have lyme. If you had an active case of lyme right now, they would expect a lot more antibodies.
HOWEVER, what you need to know is that the ELISA is a useless test. Lyme doctors don't ever use it. They ignore it because it misses so many people who actually have lyme. I understand it misses more than half the cases of lyme.
So, totally forget this test.
From p. 7 of Burrascano:
"DIAGNOSING LATER DISEASE
When reactive, serologies indicate exposure only and do not directly indicate whether the spirochete is now currently present. Because Bb serologies often give inconsistent results, test at well-known reference laboratories. The suggestion that two-tiered testing, utilizing an ELISA as a screening tool, followed, if positive, by a confirmatory western blot, is illogical in this illness. The ELISA is not sensitive enough to serve as an adequate screen, and there are many patients with Lyme who test negative by ELISA yet have fully diagnostic western blots. I therefore recommend against using the ELISA. Order IgM and IgG western blots- but be aware that in late disease there may be repeatedly peaking IgM's and therefore a reactive IgM may not differentiate early from late disease, but it does suggest an active infection. When late cases of LB are seronegative, 36% will transiently become seropositive at the completion of successful therapy."
See the first sentence of the quote. If you get a positive, it only means exposure to lyme. It does not mean current infection.
See the second sentence. Test at well-known reference laboratories. Quest and LabCorp are not reference laboratories.
So, you got a junk test and it is worthless. Get to a lyme doctor and get a diagnosis. No test can diagnose a person with lyme disease because none of them are accurate enough. Read it in Burrascano:
"DIAGNOSTIC HINTS
Lyme Borreliosis (LB) is diagnosed clinically, as no currently available test, no matter the source or type, is definitive in ruling in or ruling out infection with these pathogens, or whether these infections are responsible for the patient's symptoms." (page 7)
When he says that lyme is diagnosed clinically, it means that a doctor must decide that you have lyme, not a test. The doctor bases his decision on all the evidence before him. The doctor who has a lot of expertise regarding lyme disease is much more accurate than any lyme test.
Posts: 9931 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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posted
Wondering if you are looking for a LLMD or LLND? If so, in which part of WA? I can give you a couple of possibilities in Western WA.
Posts: 873 | From WA | Registered: Dec 2005
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posted
At this point any and all, but i live near portland, So far i can only find two. I am going to re-search them to make sure they are descent. thank you for your help
-------------------- Help I am being forced against my will to learn medicine!!! Posts: 164 | From WASHINGTON | Registered: Jun 2011
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payne
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 26248
posted
ron, get a LLMD.. be prepared for a waiting list, and maybe up to 3-4 months to get in.. ask to be put on the cancelation list, as someone may cancel and makes an opening for you. the vet for your dogs( gotta love labs) may actually have good insight too.. there's options too, if herbs/supplements are in your world, you can get started now. listen to your body test are wishy washy- you will know when you have lyme, there are many people here ready to help in all your decisions. best wishes, wayne
-------------------- TULAREMIA/rabbit fever ? Posts: 1931 | From mid-michigan | Registered: Jun 2010
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