posted
Anyone use the McDougall diet as a part of their treatment, and if so, any results? Is it a bio-film buster?
Posts: 386 | From Southeastern PA | Registered: Oct 2007
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MichaelTampa
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posted
That is the rumor, biofilm, yes, also hoping it will treat CCSVI. I started a couple/few weeks ago, major herx on second day, more steady now, but effective.
Posts: 1927 | From se usa | Registered: Mar 2010
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posted
Also, are you taking abx while on the diet?
Posts: 386 | From Southeastern PA | Registered: Oct 2007
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MichaelTampa
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posted
I was initially, but I am off the abx now. The clindamycin caused c-diff. It is even possible the diet changed played a role, as I had to really increase my carbs as I went on the diet.
I do think, for that reason, it might be a bit tougher to do while on abx. I may be at the point where I no longer need the abx, but that does pose a real dilemma for those still needing abx.
Posts: 1927 | From se usa | Registered: Mar 2010
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posted
I'm on a low fat diet, like McDougal but with a bit of lean beef and chicken. Whole foods, veggies,fruits.
It's not really a bio film buster...
It is like 'starving' the buggers from fat type of concept.
I'm on diet and abx... most people are... You can be on diet only and feel better though.
Yes, this is a Fry lab concept.
-------------------- Lyme, Babs, Fry Bug..... Whatever it is, may a treatment be discovered to make us all whole again! Posts: 941 | From AZ-MT | Registered: Oct 2004
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lululymemom
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posted
I'm not sure this is a Fry Lab concept. McDougal told me long before I heard that interview that his diet would assist in the treatment of Lyme..
Bartonella henselae 1:100 Posts: 2027 | From British Columbia | Registered: Jun 2010
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karenl
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posted
Michael,
did the diet help you already or just make you herx?
Posts: 1834 | From US | Registered: Oct 2008
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MichaelTampa
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posted
I energy test whether I do the diet, and the pendulum says it is very good, so I believe it is helping. But, if you mean, have I noticed improvement in symptoms related to this, I would say no.
I have had a lot going on recently ... clindamycin and malarone for a few weeks, recently came off it from C-Diff, getting EarthCalm EMF protection devices, starting detoxamin EDTA and other biofilm supplements, the herx from the diet, no longer needing and stopping a lot of supplements including Byron White herbs. Things appear to be headed in a good direction in many respects. I would really need a long exposure to EMF's to notice if there has been improvement there, which I haven't had over the last few weeks. I'll get one this week coming up, going out of town for NCR treatment (nasal restructuring Dean Howell style), but even then, it would be difficult to know how much change, if any, is due to the diet.
I really am on the diet assuming I have CCSVI and will measure it's success based on if I have a blockage and it clears it. Until I can get measured, I'll just use my pendulum to see if it is "worthwhile".
Posts: 1927 | From se usa | Registered: Mar 2010
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ukcarry
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posted
I see from his site that this diet includes eating lots of grains, including breads and pasta [he doesn't mention gluten-free] and also seasoning with some sugar, amongst other things: both these suggestions run contrary to the experience of many with Lyme, especially those with candida as part of their illness.
Sugar usually causes my spasmodic atrial fibrillation to start up.
Some diet philosophies confuse me in that they are often very prescriptive, extreme and contrasting; for example other diets recommend eating NO GRAINs at all.
Posts: 1647 | From UK | Registered: Nov 2008
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springshowers
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posted
How I interpret the recommendation is more around the fat intake and not Dr. McDougal diet per say in total but in concept.
More even calling it a plant based whole foods diet. And reduce the fat down to a minimum.
So from there you have to watch those sugars and carbs and glutens as well. Also dairy and anything you have allergies too.
Posts: 2747 | From Unites States Of America | Registered: Apr 2009
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Haley
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posted
I have been on this type of diet and I believe it is effecting my symptoms (in a good way), however, I am starving and losing too much weight. I will need to make some adjustments if I don't want to waste away to nothing.
I do believe Dr. Fry is onto something!!
Posts: 2232 | From USA | Registered: Aug 2009
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springshowers
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posted
Great news Haley. Keep it up. And I too am seeing things shifting but not sure yet what to report so I will wait til I have a couple months under my belt.
But I have things happening that have not happened in a decade and i am not sure where it is taking me yet.
But he is right. That I feel confident about
Posts: 2747 | From Unites States Of America | Registered: Apr 2009
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Haley
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posted
It seems to good to be true so I'm waiting to give a full report on the low fat diet. I've only been doing this about a week. I don't eat any animal protein or fat and I'm eating lots of veggies.
I also am taking a new biofilm supplement, that may be contributing to how I feel. Something my doctor sells - Biofilzyme.
Wouldn't it be funny if this was the key to cure Lyme all along? A low fat diet.
Posts: 2232 | From USA | Registered: Aug 2009
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posted
Lymetoo... Can you post articles and things to back up your 'lose your hair' statement?
I'd like to see them.
Thanks
-------------------- Lyme, Babs, Fry Bug..... Whatever it is, may a treatment be discovered to make us all whole again! Posts: 941 | From AZ-MT | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
Biofilzyme control is a unique enzyme formulation with EDTA that is especially designed to disrupt the biofilm matrix that embeds potential gastrointestinal pathogens.
Interesting Site, http://www.ifsmed.com. About IFSMED Diagnosis & Treatment of Autoimmune Disease, Arthritis & More, apparently all the supplements are glutin free.
All the Best, MattH
Posts: 607 | From Houston Texas | Registered: Mar 2011
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posted
Lymetoo, you are right, my hair is falling out from this very low fat diet! And it started falling out after I was on the diet only 6-8 weeks. Now, I've been on the diet for 3 months, and I can literally pull hair out every time I run my fingers through my hair.
Also, the diet seems to make me very keyed up and insomniac, maybe causing high cortisol?
Big bummer, because I really do think the diet is helpful in many other ways.
-------------------- Increasingly ill over past 10 yrs; treating since October '08. Posts: 180 | From Philadelphia, PA | Registered: Oct 2008
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posted
I had to eat just about no fat for 6 months one time and my hair started falling out like crazy.. Don't remember how soon it started.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96239 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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springshowers
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posted
Maybe a pulsed diet would work so that you can avoid side affects like that or problems from it. I had already assumed it would not be long term if your one who is doing it very restricted and to zero fat.
I have had this in mind already o schedule it in such a way like a pulsed treatment of sorts cycling through various modes and doing very strict for certain periods of the month and then back off it for the other some.
It may work out better that way for the body but still give the benefits of what your trying to accomplish.
We all know that some fat is good and needed and we can not restrict it severely or totally and for long periods of time.
Posts: 2747 | From Unites States Of America | Registered: Apr 2009
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I wonder, how do the McDougallers live on this diet? Are they all bald??
-------------------- Increasingly ill over past 10 yrs; treating since October '08. Posts: 180 | From Philadelphia, PA | Registered: Oct 2008
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posted
I guess the hair loss must be Lyme-related.
Many years ago (before Lyme) when I started the McDougall diet my hair got thicker and fuller! When I got very sick with Lyme I had hair loss, but now after a year of treatment my hair is back to normal again.
I'm still on the McDougall diet, nine years now.
Posts: 261 | From Nebraska | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
My hair loss was unrelated to Lyme. I had been successfully treated for years by that time .. and my hair was fine once I went back to eating fats again. Thank goodness!!
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96239 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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posted
For one thing, Fry never said that this diet would actually kill anything on its own, because there is no way that it will. That's why ALL his patients using this diet are on abx.
What he said was that they feel better. But he hasn't put out any solid info on parasite counts with the diet, compared to patients that are on the same protocol without the diet restrictions.
Patients feeling better could be simply from eating a healthier diet....this can make anyone feel better, no matter what their parasite load is.
In my opinion it is not going to be the key to killing this parasite. Even if someone could eliminate 100% of the fat, there is no way to measure how much effect this would have on the biofilm. There are other factors that could easily explain why a person could feel better on this diet
Biofilms are not just made up of fats, they are a matrix of minerals, amino acids, and slime ( the glue that holds it all together ). So just eliminating the fats may not have a huge effect in killing it.
If you try to go on this diet and follow it to a tee for a long period of time, you're going to waste away to nothing, and we all know how difficult gaining weight can be for a lot of us that started out skinny in the begining.
Along with unwanted weight loss, you're going to be getting c-dif, or candida, or both from eating a high carb diet.... I will gaurantee you that!!! ABX and high carb is no no.
The bottom line......trying to starve out this parasite by eliminating all fats will not work. No one can outlast them without causing themselves harm, because it means giving up or severely reducing animal protein, which are low carb, and substituting high carb and much larger quantities of them in order to get the needed protein and calories. These things can steal what they need to survive from your red blood cells, and living tissue/lymph fluid anyway.
Take what Fry says with a grain of salt. You can clean up your diet by eliminating excess and bad fats, but it would be a mistake to cut out all healthy fats. It's always a good thing to clean up your diet, but that's not the only thing that will make a difference in your progress.
Wait untill he produces some hard evidence that shows this parasites biofilm reduction or elimination, and that involves a lot more than a 4 person study. But if you don't mind wasting away to nothing, going bald, and getting a severe case of candida, then go for it! Just remember that in the end, you will probably still have what you were trying to destroy as well.
Posts: 134 | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
I don't think anyone is arguing that the McD diet is a cure for Lyme & co. The idea that less fat in the diet will discourage biofilms is intriguing, but unproven. I agree that there are other factors that could explain why people feel better on this diet.
Still, it's an interesting experiment, it's inexpensive, and has beneficial side effects like better heart health. And of course, it's reversible if you change your mind.
A couple of points from a long-time McDougaller, though:
1. "Waste away to nothing"--no, you won't. The diet is adjustable to each person's needs and if you are losing too much weight you can add in more calorie-dense foods. Legumes, for one thing. You can even add in higher fat foods like avocado, olives, nuts in moderation without exceeding the fat guidelines. Those are healthy fats in their natural, unrefined state. I have not lost any weight over the course of my illness and treatment, while on this diet. My BMI is 19 and has been the same for nine years.
2. "Going bald"--hair loss is not the normal experience with McDougalling. Most of us have the opposite experience, from what I can tell. I would guess, if it's not disease-related then there are some nutrients missing. I would really encourage people who are going through this to go over to the McDougall forum and ask about it. You can post in Health Issues or go to the "Jeff Novick, RD" section and ask there. Jeff is a nutritionist who works with Dr. McDougall and he has answers for everything. They might want you to post some example menus so they can analyze what you're eating.
There are always improvements that can be made, in anybody's diet, no matter how 'healthy' their diet may seem.
3. "getting candida from a high-carb diet"--If you avoid sugar and avoid all refined foods (flour, etc.) and eat only whole foods you shouldn't have any problem. Personally I am on two antibiotics and Diflucan and have not had any yeast problems during my treatment. Dr. McDougall calls the whole-foods that are the basis of this diet "starches." Brown rice, tubers, legumes, other whole grains if you tolerate them. This is nothing like the "carbs" that most Americans are eating, refined to the point they are just like sugar.
Keep in mind that all though some McDougallers eat bread and pasta, MANY of us are gluten-free. (If you go to the McDougall forum there's a section for gluten-free issues.) Others who are trying to lose weight follow a stricter plan, the MWL or Maximum Weight Loss plan.
4. "getting c-dif"--This infection is acquired in hospitals, primarily. Community outbreaks of it are usually traced back to infected meat. Of course, people with compromised immune systems like us will be more susceptible, and abx can create an environment suitable for it. Avoid handling raw meat to protect yourself.
5. "needed protein"--There is plenty of protein in the McDougall diet. Dr. McDougall writes about this at length and I recommend looking at his website and reading some articles there (all the past newsletters are available online free.) Most Americans eat way too much protein, and this is hard on people's kidneys. I read somewhere that the average person exceeds the RDA/DRI for protein by 400%--that protein can't be stored and has to be processed and excreted.
As a Lyme patient, it seems to me that I need my kidneys to stay very busy clearing Lyme toxins out of my system. That's why I drink a lot of water as part of my treatment. Why would I want to overload my kidneys with protein that they have to filter and excrete? It makes a lot of sense to me to reduce that excess protein load.
So, if I'm reducing fats (for heart health and possibly other benefits), reducing protein for kidney health, then the rest of my calories have to be the dreaded carbohydrates, LOL. As long as these are in the form of whole-foods starches, it's great. Start eating refined foods and you may get bad results, most likely.
Posts: 261 | From Nebraska | Registered: Jan 2010
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emla999/Lyme
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posted
Some people seem to think that the dramatic increase in the consumption of polyunsaturated fats (PUFA's) that only first began during the early 1900's plays a big role in the development of chronic illnesses. Apparently, prior to the early 1900's most humans didn't eat a diet that contained lots of polyunsaturated fats. Scientist Dr. Ray Peat is probably one of the biggest advocates of reducing your polyunsaturated intake to improve one's health.
On the link down bellow please scroll down to about half way down that page and you will find a very interesting chart. This is from the University of Indiana.
As the increase in the consumption of PUFA's has went up so has the incidence of various chronic illness. Of course that doesn't mean that PUFA's directly play a role in the development of chronic illnesses. Nonetheless, I thought that chart was rather interesting.
And personally, I don't think that all fats are bad for us. For example coconut oil is mostly a saturated fat and it is generally regarded as having numerous health benefits. And it also is known as having antimicrobial properties.
posted
TickToxic, It's not true that all on his diet are on ABX.... there are a few that are not on any abx. Diet is the only treatment some are doing right now.
And others have been able to go off abx that are doing the diet.
I have been off abx now for over 3 weeks.
Agree that this isn't for everyone. It's working for us that are doing it though.
I take what my Dr. says with a grain of salt and I look at it from each angle and find what is best for me. This is working. I work full time and I'm in the gym again.
With anything new, it will be tried and then true. Work with it if you like, find whats best for your body and mind.
I do whole foods... veggies.. but I do like my protein from meat so I do buy lean organic beef and chicken. I don't go over board with any of it.
Fine line with all that we do.
-------------------- Lyme, Babs, Fry Bug..... Whatever it is, may a treatment be discovered to make us all whole again! Posts: 941 | From AZ-MT | Registered: Oct 2004
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lululymemom
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posted
Hair loss can also be a side effect of many meds including beta blockers.. I know many with this disease experience hair loss as well.
Bartonella henselae 1:100 Posts: 2027 | From British Columbia | Registered: Jun 2010
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Catgirl
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posted
I went vegan 3 years ago when my body went haywire. I did a lot of gardening a few months prior. I did get a wierd welt, but when I looked up lyme on the net, I didn't have any of the symptoms, so I thought nothing of it.
I ended up in the hospital about 3 mos later. I was allergic to everything (hypersensitive). The hospital just thought it was in my head because I was a female near 50 yrs old (they thought it might be menopause related). My doctor told me that my white blood count was high though and suggested I read "Adrenal Fatigue" and try acupuncture.
So, I slipped through the cracks. I know now from many other symptoms at that time that I got lyme. I can tell you that acupuncture helped me, and going vegan REALLY helped me. I felt back to normal in a little over a year. I had no antibiotics, just diet(made the biggest impact), acupuncture and lots of vit C.
Had I not been bit this past winter (babesia), I probably never would have even looked at this website.
For people who can't take abx, in my opinion, diet is the one thing you actually do have control over to impact your body the most.
I currently have candida, so I had to go off my vegan diet 2 weeks ago. I can't eat a single thing that yeast likes (fruit, carbs, sugar). Unfortunately, for me, eating a yeast free diet means meat, or I would wither away to nothing. I've already lost 10 pounds.
It kills me to go to the store and walk through the produce isle (have to get veggies), and look at all that fruit (my weakness).
So for people who can't take abx., I would definitely try McDougall or even just going vegan. I had so much energy after my first year of going vegan. I know once I'm cured of lyme, I will be back on my vegan diet (I just felt better than I ever felt even before I got lyme).
-------------------- --Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together). Posts: 5418 | From earth | Registered: Mar 2011
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