posted
I am interested to see how many people here have tried Samento and/or Banderol and whether it helped them and/or had any documented effect on their immune system.
I finished 2 years of abxs about a year ago when I felt like I had gotten back to 100% from LD and bart infections.
I am not taking any abxs right now and still feel pretty good, but I had my yearly physical last month and my CD57 level was 42, which is the lowest it has ever been.
My wife and 2 of my kids have tested positive for LD and have been taking abxs for 2 years but have not shown much improvement. I am considering trying Samento and Banderol for them as well as myself to see if it will help them and help get my CD57 levels up to normal.
What have other members' experiences been like with Samento and Banderol?
joalo
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 12752
posted
Up.
-------------------- Sick since January 1985. Misdiagnosed for 20 years. Tested CDC positive October 2005. Treating since April 2006. Posts: 3228 | From Somewhere west of the Mississippi | Registered: Aug 2007
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nefferdun
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posted
In Dr. B's speech at the CALDA conference in March 2011, he said Samento and Banderol help to break up biofilm.
Although I bought Cowden Samento I used another brand of TOA free cat's claw, which is what samento is. It seemed to be effective at keeping my Bb under control while I was treating other infections. I also used grapefruit seed extract with it.
I was told by a LLMD that cat's claw, teasal root and andrographis are the best herbs for borellia.
-------------------- old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot Posts: 4676 | From western Montana | Registered: Apr 2009
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Lymeorsomething
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Member # 16359
posted
I pm'd you as well. I like the herbs and feel they help, but I still feel that the abx are essential too. Adding the herbs to an abx protocol is the way to go just take it slow and watch liver and kidney function.
Milk thistle will help support the liver. Take it away from the meds though...
-------------------- "Whatever can go wrong will go wrong." Posts: 2062 | From CT | Registered: Jul 2008
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posted
I used to take Siliverin (milk thistle) because my liver enzymes were elevated when I had active LD and/or bart.
Although I am not taking any abxs now, my liver enzymes were normal as of last month.
I have a question about Samento and Banderol. Why can't they be taken together? The study that was published about their effectiveness against Bb seemed to indicate they were used together to help inhibit or kill Bb.
posted
I do the following each day and really feel of all the Cowden herbs, these 2 have helped the most.
banderol - first thing in the morning samento - early afternoon banderol - early evening samento - before I go to bed.
Posts: 186 | From colorado | Registered: Jul 2010
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tick battler
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Member # 21113
posted
Samento and Cumanda have been the best for us. We also add Enula for babesia sometimes and always use grapefruit seed extract for babesia.
tickbattler
Posts: 1763 | From Malvern, PA | Registered: Jul 2009
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onbam
Unregistered
posted
Relapsed on them in a huge way a year ago. Google martin sievers samento--contrary to Eva Sapi's findings, he actually found it to promote Bb growth, it seems. Think I'll wait for the jury to come in on this one.
One doc suggested that they (or at least one of them) might release Bb from biofilm and thus be helpful only in the presence of abx. Just a hypothesis, though.
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klutzo
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Member # 5701
posted
I have never had any ABX, due to allergy, and I took Samento for four years with major herxing most of the time. It seemed to keep my end organ problems from getting worse. When I stopped, I went downhill really rapidly.
Cumanda made me herx a little, and Burbur didn't do much for me. Have not tried Banderol....it didn't exist back then.
I feel I would have come to Stage IV a lot sooner without Samento, but I would not advise taking a dose high enough to herx. Drop back just one dose below that, which is what they advise anyway.
I could not take any in the afternoon or later, or I would not sleep at all, since I have so much Bb in my brain. I had to take it in the morning, and could never get beyond 9 drops. I could not really function above 5 drops per day. The herxing was major agony.
klutzo
Posts: 1269 | From Clearwater, Florida, USA | Registered: May 2004
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posted
Thanks for the responses and input. Hopefully, we can keep this thread going to keep getting more input on these supplements and what has worked for different members.
I have decided to go with Samento because of its alleged immune system boosting effect and with Banderol because of its alleged antifungal properties. Even though I have been off abxs for a year, I still get thrush occasionally that does not seem to respond to Nystatin.
I plan to take these Nutramedix supplements for about 6 months and then have my CD57 checked again to see if it will increase from its current level of 42. I started on these supps yesterday, using 10 drops of each twice daily.
I will post any effects that I feel are related to taking these supps, including whether my CD57 rebounds.
CherylSue
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Member # 13077
posted
I am interested in these -banderol and samento, too. I've seen the Sapi report and the blogMD's report, both favorable. Little worried about the report from the poster above. I don't want to make things worse.
Posts: 1954 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2007
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CherylSue
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Member # 13077
posted
Just got the results of my CD57. It's now 71, a drop form 125 in April when I was tested at the beginning of my relapse.
ABX are no longer working for me. I'm doing homeopathy and herbal supplements with my LLMD.
and
I started the banderol/samento at 1 drop each a day.
Posts: 1954 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2007
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CherylSue
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posted
Any more experiences with the banderol and Samento combo?
Posts: 1954 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2007
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posted
I had been on samento and banderol this past year. I had to stop both because of my reactions to both of them. My body is very sensitive to treatment because a little bit goes a long way with me. My moto I learned after using these natural treatments is...the treatment should be formulated to the patient not the patient around the treatment. I started Samento and was so sick from the hertz that I just couldn't do anything and was bed bound. It really stirred up a huge neuro reaction for me. Headaches were my chief compliant. I lowered the dose to even 1 drop every other day and just couldn't tolerate it so my LLMD said stop!!! He then started me on Banderol because he felt that it was more gentle and I started at 1 drop a day and was tolerating that just fine. So after my next follow-up appointment it was suggested that I increase to 3 drops a day and to take at bedtime so that it would be more tolerated. Well immediately the next morning I woke up with the most terrible headache I had ever experienced for days. Plus the sad thing was it drove mine into cyst forms that came out of my skin located at the base of my spine and in my neck areas. These turned into ulcers that were 3 CM wide and 2CM deep and took months to heal umder a dermatologist care. So I stopped Banderol because I heard that it has a possible history of this. I now am on SPK by Kroger brand and am doing just fine. My darkfield test showed that my lymes was completely controlled by SPK and rifing for my co-infections. I know that Samento and Banderol works but not for me. And starting out 1 drop at a time is the way to go. My LLMD later informed me that some people only need a small amount for a complete treatment dose instead of 15 drops twice a day. He had a patient totally cured by working up to 3 drops a day which took years to get there but they did get there. Make sure your liver and colon is functioning at it's best or you might have major speed bumps. I hope that you can gain something from my experience. May God lead to in the right direction that you need to go which is best for YOU! Blessings in Jesus wondferful name! Shachar
Posts: 11 | From Michigan | Registered: May 2011
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posted
P.S. I also use daily along with my herbal supplements...Paracan MYC grapefruit extract also with any Lymes treatment.
Posts: 11 | From Michigan | Registered: May 2011
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posted
UPDATE: I worked up to 20 drops of Samento and Banderol twice daily, and the Banderol seems to be helping my thrush.
I won't know if the Samento is helping to boost my immune system until I go back to my doctor next month.
Also, of note, a couple of months before I started Samento and Banderol, I got a bad cold and URI and was prescribed a z-pak back in May 2011. About 2 weeks later, I started having sore feet and hands again. At first, I just thought maybe I had been working out too hard at the gym, but then I realized that these symptoms may be LD or bart related when they did not go away after rest. They seemed to be very similar to the first LD/bart symptoms that I started having about 10 years ago.
I went back to my doctor, and my bloodwork showed something was out of whack. I am now back on Tindamax and cipro twice a day after being off all LD and bart abxs for a year. The good news is that my hands and feet began to feel better after just a week of abxs. Hopefully, the abxs plus the Samento and Banderol will finally knock out the LD and bart, but only time will tell.
posted
I was taking Cats Claw in the period that led to me crashing with Lyme borreliose, so I was wondering what the cause could be since it tested positive with energytesting. Before crashing I was doing relatively fine.
Later I found this remark in a German book on Lyme: Petra Hopf-Seidel MD writer of the book 'Krank nach Zeckenstich'. (Sick after a tickbite): "In vitro research of Prof Sievers, W�denswil has shown that Cats Claw not only works for the immunesystem, but it also stimulates Borrelia in its growth. Therefore I only recommend Cats Claw in combination with AB."
Maybe this could explain a few things.
The research by Prof. Martin Sievers was done with Samento, which is a Toa free Cats Claw. The research in favor of Samento is done by Eva Sapi, who is figuring a lot in the publicity done by Nutramedix, the company that sells the stuff. In the texts she claims succes with Samento, but only in vitro(testtube), in quantities corresponding to those that in vivo(body) would be impossible to support or afford. The publications are clear and open on this matter.
Martin Sievers is the head of the Molecular Biology section of the Zurich University of Applied Sciences and director of the Culture Collection of Switzerland. He studied biology at the Leibniz University of Hannover, focusing on microbiology and biochemistry. Martin Sievers received his PhD from the Christian-Albrechts-University of Kiel. In 1990 he joined the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (ETH) Zurich, where he described Acetobacter europaeus, isolated from industrial vinegar fermentations, and Acetobacter intermedius, isolated from kombucha tea, as two new species. In 1997 he moved to the Zurich University of Applied Sciences as a lecturer at the Institute of Biotechnology and was appointed Professor in 2002. He teaches Bachelors and Masters students in the fields of microbiology and molecular biology. Martin Sievers has also been involved in many research projects funded by the Innovation Promotion Agency CTI in Bern, Switzerland.�Projects carried out with industrial partners include work on the identification of wine lactic acid bacteria, expression of membrane proteins, and diagnostics and therapy for Lyme disease.
-------------------- "They that are whole have no need for the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous but sinners to repentance"(Mark 2.17) Posts: 149 | From Amsterdam | Registered: Jul 2011
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canefan17
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posted
How would Samento stimulate the growth of Borrelia?
Reason I ask is Dr K says that Vitamin D speeds up Borrelia's reproductive cycle (to more like 16-18 days vs 25+ days)
DOn't know how they know this.
Posts: 5394 | From Houston, Tx | Registered: Aug 2009
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annxyzz
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posted
Just a thought , I got more benefit from GSE and artemesia annua than 3 years ABX . I used artemesia annua from Herb Pharm. Both of these hit a wide VARIETY of organisms . Frankly , I sometimes do not know if we have identified the real pathogen (s) . I do believe these have been helpful and artemesia has multiple GOOD benefits - anticancer and others .
-------------------- annxyzz Posts: 1178 | From East Texas | Registered: May 2009
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Marz
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Member # 3446
posted
Wondering if people stop at 6 months which is on the Cowden/Nutramedix website?
I'm finishing month 4 of banderol/samento/doxy.
The first few weeks I was doing well, but feel I'm relapsing now.
Not sure if maybe it's knocked out lyme and maybe the return of the headache, neckache and fatigue are bart. But have never had classic bart symptoms.
Hadn't heard of Sievers research and so now am skeptical of LLMDs going by Sapi's in vitro study since it's supposed to take a lot to do this in vivo.
Think I'll back down to 15 drops to finish out the last two months.
Posts: 1297 | From USA | Registered: Dec 2002
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