posted
Background: have had lyme (babs and possibly bart as well ) for a long time ......have felt well for long periods on and off......currently under the care of well known llmd but he has not been very helpful with thyroid issue.....currently on abab and abart and will also be addressing high lead issue shortly with DMSA and Detoxomin etc.
Have been monitoring thyroid nodules for the past couple of years with ultrasounds and have also had two biopsies done.
Recent ultrasound indicates nodules have grown a little since last December......since I had a biopsy done last January, my receptive, but conventional endo feels we should repeat ultrasound in 3-4 months and perhaps consider taking a thyroid med to see if they will shrink.....however, she said it's my choice as to whether I want to take this med at this time or not.
Current thyroid lab results: free T4 direct -1.11 (ref. 0.82-1.77) TSH 3.020 (0.450-4.500) this has fluctuated lower and as high as 4.0 in previous labwork T4 - 7.7 (4.5-12.0) T3 - 112 (71-180) Free T3 - 2.8 (2.0 - 4.4)
She also checked blood cortisol level: 9.6 (ref. 8:00 am- 8.0 -19; 4:00 pm - 4.0 -11)
24 hour iodine urine test shows that it's in the normal range.
Endo feels that TSH is high and that I may have subclinical hypothyroidism.....ironically, since I saw her the other day I have been feeling sluggish and fatigued.
Have also experienced in the last two weeks dry eyes upon waking and dry red inflamed skin on my left eye lid which has gotten better with ointment from a dermatologist.....wondering if this is an issue with my adrenals rather than thyroid?
Endo first suggested synthroid/levoxl(spelling?) but when I brought up Armour she said that she was ok with that too.
She has prescribed 30mg of Armour.
I was ready to fill this prescription until I did a little research on this board and learned that some people have had bad experiences with thyroid meds particularly with elevated heart levels etc.......this scares me because I was treated for hyperthyroid before being treated for lyme a number of years ago.
My questions at this point are: 1. What would you do in my situation? 2. Should I do a saliva test to check adrenals before I start thyroid meds....endo says that she feels adrenals are ok as cortisol level is in the normal range....what's your opinion about this?
3. Am I better off ordering the original Armour from Canada or should I go for the compounded form of Armour, or some other form of natural thyroid?
4. At what dose did you start natural thyroid meds and did you also take adrenal support along with it?
I apologize for the long post......I'm so grateful to have you guys there to listen and help.....thank you!! JJ
Posts: 574 | From New Jersey | Registered: Feb 2004
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sixgoofykids
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
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posted
My TSH was 3.6 and I feel/felt MUCH better when I got it to 1. Amazing difference.
I did the saliva test for adrenals. It's supposed to be the way to go for adrenal testing. You test the levels throughout the day. Mine was borderline low, just like the thryoid so LLMD put me on herbal adrenal support.
I just take regular Armour that my pharmacy carries. I'm on 1 grain (60 mg I think??).
I don't think I answered your questions, but maybe you can benefit from my experience. I am well from Lyme, but still need that one grain of thyroid.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
From what I have learned from my doctor, if the adrenals are not working well, the thyroid won't work well.
I did a saliva test and ended supplementing with pregnenolone to help the adrenals. I was really low.
I use Nature-Throid which is also a porcine natural drug like Armour. I did terrible on Armour both prescription and compounded. Your T3/T4 levels are better than mine. I don't feel good unless my TSH is way lower than yours is. I like to be .50.
-------------------- Faithful
Just sharing my experience, I am not a doctor. Posts: 2682 | From Colorado | Registered: Oct 2009
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posted
Thanks sixgoofykids.....can you share the name of the herbal adrenal support your llmd recommended?
Posts: 574 | From New Jersey | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
Thank you, Faithful for your input ...I think you're right, I need to find out what the state of my adrenals is before I do anything else.
Why do you think you did better on Nature-Troid than Armour? Is the quality of Nature-Throid better in your opinion?
Since my t4/t3 is in the normal range is there a possibility that by taking Armour I may be overloading on t4/t3?
Although my TSH has fluctuated on the high side during the past year, I can't say that I have been feeling bad or tired etc. until the last few days.....I guess it may be catching up with me.
Posts: 574 | From New Jersey | Registered: Feb 2004
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philly78
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 31069
posted
I have been taking prolamine iodine for my thyroid. Granted, mine showed signs of hyperthyroid but from what I've read about it, it can help with hypo as well.
I was taking 5/day but am down to one with my thyroid levels improved.
quote:You will use tincture of iodine which is 2% orange colored solution available in the first aid section of your pharmacy. It comes in a small one ounce bottle.
****IMPORTANT! MAKE SURE IT IS THE ORANGE COLORED IODINE.
Before you go to bed, paint a half dollar size of iodine onto clean dry skin. This should be either on your stomach, under your forearm or inner thigh where material won't rub on it.
When you wake up, you will notice the color has changed. Make a mental note about how much it has changed.
Wait for 24 hours. If the color has completely disappeared, you are iodine deficient.
The body's deficiency is proportionate - the faster the iodine is absorbed by your body, the more deficient you are.
One more link for ya. You can print it out and record your results.
Oh...and just so ya know. I did the test in the am so I could keep a better eye on things as opposed to the pm. Either way would work
-------------------- When faced with pain you have two choices....either quit and accept the circumstances, OR make the decision to fight with all the resources you have at your disposal. Posts: 1000 | From PA | Registered: Mar 2011
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sixgoofykids
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quote:Originally posted by JJ29: Thanks sixgoofykids.....can you share the name of the herbal adrenal support your llmd recommended?
Xymogen Adrenal Essence
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
Philly, thanks for your very interesting post and links......it's great that Prolamine iodine helped your thyroid levels......my only concern with using it would be if it would have an adverse effect on my thyroid nodules.....you don't have any nodules do you?
Although I recently had a 24 hr. urine test to check iodine levels which came back normal I wonder if I could still be deficient in iodine.....thanks for the link re the iodine patch I am definitely going to try it.
Posts: 574 | From New Jersey | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
Thanks, Sixgoofykids for the name of the adrenal supplement.
I just got off the phone with my endo regarding the issue of using an adrenal support supplement along with Armour......she said that from what she can see from cortisol level and other labs (but no recent adrenal saliva test) she does not feel that my adrenals need support and she would not recommend anything that was not FDA approved.....soooo, I guess I will follow her judgement for now (although I'm skeptical) and not take any adrenal supplement.
I will know if she's right about this once I start taking the armour and don't experience a negative reaction......I hope she's right!
Posts: 574 | From New Jersey | Registered: Feb 2004
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sixgoofykids
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Many doctors aren't supplement fans. The stuff I was taking was vitamins and herbs.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
Anyone else have any other opinion regarding my situation?
Posts: 574 | From New Jersey | Registered: Feb 2004
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philly78
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 31069
posted
I have only one nodule that was found just recently in April I believe. I had a CT scan of the chest then along with an MRI.
I'm actually seeing an endo in August. I believe in my case, the nodule is the reason that my TSH is so low. I'll most likely get a thyroid scan to see if the nodule is secreting thyroid hormones.
My previous 3 times on blood draws my TSH was extremely low. It is still low but not as low as it was before and some of my hyperthyroid symptoms have improved. Although, some of those symptoms could have been related to lyme and co! Who knows.
I just figured I would put the info out there for you to read. Don't take it if you don't feel comfortable.
-------------------- When faced with pain you have two choices....either quit and accept the circumstances, OR make the decision to fight with all the resources you have at your disposal. Posts: 1000 | From PA | Registered: Mar 2011
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posted
I have done excellent on armour thyroid 90 mgs...I have used all the thyroid meds for many years and only got results with armour since it covers T 3 and 4....also have nodules on my thyroid. Since I have gotten it into a normal range the nodules are decreasing in size.
My daughter has same issue and does nto have lyme...she also has many many nodules on her thyroid and her TSH count was high. She is on armour and doing great now.
-------------------- Diagnosed with chronic neuro lyme 12/10 after 30 years of vertigo.2 tick bites in 3 yrs from upstate NY. Was on omincef for nine mths..zith and rifampin stopped.Remission~ All the pain and symptoms are back and I am not treating now with biaxin. Posts: 788 | From New york..queens | Registered: Nov 2010
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Amanda
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well, my thyroid test are different from yours, I show more clear signs of hypothyroid (TSH above 6, free T3 1.2).
When I first tried thyriod meds, I was on Armour, and I had jitters heart palps, worse insomnia. So I cut the dose from 60 to 30 and still I had problems.
Then I started synthroid and thyroids test are normal and no jitters. Doc told me that armour was t3 and t4, and since I was only in need of t3, maybe synthroid was the better drug.
So I guess I would say that you may have to tinker around with the dose , or try something else until you find what works for you (you have to track both how you feel, and your blood work). But make sure you are working with the MD.
-------------------- "few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" - Mark Twain Posts: 1008 | From US | Registered: Dec 2007
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Amanda, Synthroid is T4 only, not T3... JJ, the real question: is your current thyroid function insufficient to your body's ability to fully recover? If your temp runs chronically low, say 96-97's, then your body's enzyme functions will not be at their optimum. In addition, the lipid component of your blood will be slightly more viscous, and more likely to hinder circulation. In both of these situations, the response to any stress could be sufficiently impaired as to produce a symptom. As an example: many posters on this board will admit to an intolerance to alcohol as part of their overall syndrome, a problem that they did not have prior to becoming ill. Alcohol is not supposed to be present in our bodies and when we ingest it, the detoxification enzymes go to work immediately. Normally this process is rapid, but if the temp is low then the alcohol dehydrogenase is not going to work as well resulting in a lowered rate of alcohol removal. If the drinking is heavy, the blood level would go higher than usual as it is not being cleared, and the higher the level gets, and the longer it stays high, the more chance for structural damage to occur, and the greater chance for some symptom of damage to manifest. In short, putting people on thyroid meds, or any hormone, should not be done recklessly or without careful consideration of the full clinical picture, so take your temp and let your Doc know what it is.
[ 07-21-2011, 12:06 PM: Message edited by: DoctorLuddite ]
Posts: 442 | From Biddeford, ME | Registered: Nov 2007
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posted
Philly, thanks for sharing your situation.....hope all is well with regard to the nodule.....you're right, I'm not going to start taking the thyroid meds unless I have explored all my options and feel comfortable taking the meds.
Amanda, thanks for your info....I wish there was a better way to figure out the best dose of thyroid med rather than trial and error.
DoctorLuddite....thanks so much for your advice.....a clinical nutritionist/pharmacist that I met with today stated exactly what you are saying about the importantce of looking at your body temperature and adrenals (through saliva testing) etc. before starting thyroid meds......unfortunately, my mainstream endo does not seem to agree with this course of action......however, I am going to follow your advice and the nutritionist's and begin taking my temperature upon waking ......btw, I did this a couple of years ago for a month or so and my morning temp was consistently in the low 97 range.
DoctorL: is a regular mercury type thermometer ok to use and is it best to put it under the tongue or under the arm?
Posts: 574 | From New Jersey | Registered: Feb 2004
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Yes, Mercury types are ok, but digitals are easier to read, and if you use a mercury type with the digital a few times, you'll get a better idea of the accuracy of the digital. As far as where to take the temp, just be consistent...
Posts: 442 | From Biddeford, ME | Registered: Nov 2007
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Even though your adrenals have good cortisol levels, the addition of the thyroid meds will tax the adrenals is what my Naturopath told me.
I followed his treatment and my adrenals are great now and thyroid levels pretty good.
Doctor said something very interesting and relates to me.. When my adrenals and thyroid were underactive there were a few instances I had a beer or glass of wine. I would get flushed which never happened before. (Keep in mind this was before Lyme treatment) I thought I was allergic to it.
-------------------- IgM- 31,34,39,83-93 IND IgM- 41+
IgG- 31,34,39,83-93 IND IgG- 41++ Posts: 610 | From Lymeville | Registered: Nov 2010
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When your endo did the biopsy did she say if it was positive for Hashimoto's?
I was in a similar situation as you, but my thyroid was just fat and lumpy. TSH was similar, T3/T4 normal-ish, yet my thyroid antibodies were high (Hashimoto's). So I take .5 mcg of synthroid to help my thyroid out. I wouldn't think a low dose would cause much in the way of side effects, although T3 would be more prone to do it than T4 would be.
You said you were previously treated for being hyperthyroid. What was the diagnosis then? Nodules can sometimes make you go hyper temporarily, before going hypo.
Posts: 584 | From NY | Registered: Feb 2009
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Lemon-lyme, pathologist did not mention Hashimoto's on biopsy report......endo has not mentioned anything about Hashimoto's but I will question her about this.
When I was hyperthyroid I had no nodules.....I was told I had a form of thyroiditis back then......but this was before I was treated for lyme.....once I was treated for lyme, thyroid was stable for a while.
Posts: 574 | From New Jersey | Registered: Feb 2004
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