Topic: You're not SICK, you need emotional support
Tincup
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5829
posted
Another doozy from Segall making sure everyone knows you are not sick after taking the recommended IDSA antibiotic treatment protocol. You just need a pat on the head and a kick out the door.
And he wants to be sure that any tests they haven't got a patent on are no good.
Who left his cage door open?
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J Clin Rheumatol. 2011 Jul 22. [Epub ahead of print]
Musculoskeletal Features of Lyme Disease: Understanding the Pathogenesis of Clinical Findings Helps Make Appropriate Therapeutic Choices.
Sigal LH.
Source From the Division of Rheumatology and Connective Tissue Research; Department of Medicine, Department of Pediatrics, and Department of Molecular Genetics & Microbiology, University of Medicine and Dentistry of New Jersey-Robert Wood Johnson Medical School, New Brunswick, NJ.
Abstract Patients with Lyme disease, that is, active infection with Borrelia burgdorferi, experience many types of musculoskeletal complaints, with different explanatory mechanisms.
Appropriate therapy depends on understanding the underlying cause of the complaint and addressing that specific root cause.
In the case of active infection the dosage, duration, drug, and method of administration of antibiotics should be determined by the state of the infection and history of prior therapy, according to the established and validated recommendations of the Infectious Disease Society of America.
Many patients have musculoskeletal complaints not attributable to active infection; some patients have residual complaints following a documented infection that has been adequately treated with antibiotics previously, and others never had true B. burgdorferi infection in the first place.
For such patients, antibiotics are not warranted and in fact may be physically and emotionally harmful. Complaints following an episode of Lyme disease are not necessarily due to ongoing infection, especially adequately treated.
Consideration of other diagnoses may suggest use of other effective modalities, including physical therapy and emotional support.
Appropriate ordering and interpretation of the various validated seroconfirmatory tests available to study B. burgdorferi infection are critical, as these tests are often misapplied and misconstrued in pursuit of strategies aimed at eliminating patients' suffering.
Although seronegative Lyme disease has been reported, seronegativity in a reputable laboratory makes the likelihood of Lyme arthritis very low.
On the other hand, a positive result from certain unvalidated laboratories or novel assays proves nothing and should not be viewed as substantiating the diagnosis.
PMID: 21778908 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher] LinkOut - more resources
Or that Lyme is a female problem... Yankee females in fact.
"We hope that misinterpretation of their report will not exacerbate the anxiety and misattribution that are probably at the root of much of the PLDS/CLD predominantly limited to females in the North-east."
"We developed an immunoglobulin M (IgM) capture assay (EMIBA) measuring IC-derived IgM antibodies and tested it using three well-defined LD populations..."
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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Tincup
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5829
posted
More gems from the diamond salesman as he brags how HE knows best and other doctors are pretty much just plain old stupid.
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"Lyme disease has taken hold in the imagination of the general public and physicians alike.
Although the disease is real, the diagnosis is often false.
Patients demanding an explanation for feeling out of sorts, and physicians too willing to oblige them with improper use of serologic tests and useless therapies both foster a mythology that conscientious physicians should try to combat.
This article debunks the myths and presents the facts."
posted
Is it common for someone to "prove" their point by referencing themselves. 7 out of 11 references are from himself or co-author in his commentary.
Posts: 472 | From New Jersey | Registered: Dec 2007
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randibear
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 11290
posted
sounds like the gastro who told my husband "there's nothing wrong with her she just needs attention" and i had diverticulitis...
arrghhhh
-------------------- do not look back when the only course is forward Posts: 12262 | From texas | Registered: Mar 2007
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posted
You can have proof of Lyme and company on paper and still have people think your sick in the head. Lyme is a complete misunderstood nightmare!!
Posts: 96 | From USA | Registered: Jun 2011
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posted
out of sorts. yeah sure, i'm out of sorts. has he ever actually met a lyme patient? and what does he mean by TRUE lyme? oh well, we'll never change their minds. I'm not sure what will.
Posts: 236 | From Zionsville IN | Registered: Jan 2011
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James1979
Unregistered
posted
quote:Originally posted by Beth22: oh well, we'll never change their minds. I'm not sure what will.
If you give me his home address, I bet I could change his mind.
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posted
LOL james
Posts: 236 | From Zionsville IN | Registered: Jan 2011
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ktkdommer
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 29020
posted
Something has got to change! This has been going on too long!
-------------------- Things are never dull. After 3 fighting Lyme, 2 are in remission. Youngest is still sick, age 22. He has new diagnosed Chiari Malformation and Ehlers Danlos Syndrome. Posts: 1366 | From Perrysburg, Ohio | Registered: Nov 2010
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philly78
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 31069
posted
What a freaking joke!!!
That is what I was told! I needed better support. I was working too hard. I should seek therapy.
And yeah...I went to a shrink. BOTH a psychologist and a psychiatrist. The psychiatrist wasn't convinced there was anything wrong with me mentally but we tried meds anyway. Didn't work.
They made me sick! Although the benzos calmed me down but I quit those real quick! Too addictive.
And you know what my psychologist told me? That she thought there was something medically wrong with me!
Again I say...WHAT A FREAKING JOKE!!!
-------------------- When faced with pain you have two choices....either quit and accept the circumstances, OR make the decision to fight with all the resources you have at your disposal. Posts: 1000 | From PA | Registered: Mar 2011
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posted
Had a Duke Neuro tell me it was psychosomatic when I said I thought I had lyme.... was sent to him because of facial numbness on left side of face, muscle twitching all over body, pain all over..
All he did was poke me in my face a few times with a dirty safety pin he took from his pocket.
He said go see a shrink(at Duke of course)... after a 5 minute visit..
didn't waste my time, or the shrinks...
Posts: 120 | From Evansville Indiana | Registered: Dec 2010
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posted
(Sung to the first verse of the Gilbert & Sullivan patter song "I am the very model of a modern major general")
I am the very model of a modern Lyme apologist - Disinformation, I insist you all just need psychologists. I know the kinds of angling and I call you all hysterical. Your maladies, your whining too - just order now some lyrica.
I'm very well acquainted too with matters vaccinatical, I understand invasions, both the simple and the radical. About blood normal serum I am teaming with a lot of views, With many Sigal facts about how rare is your bacterial news.
With many Sigal facts about how rare is our bacterial news, With many Sigal facts about how rare is our bacterial news, With many Sigal facts about how very rare is our bacterial news.
I'm very good at integrating preferential diffidence, Say no to scientific claims for beings without evidence, In short, what matters, I insist you all just need psychologists, I am the very model of a modern Lyme apologist.
In short, what matters, he insists we all just need psychologists, He is the very model of a modern Lyme apologist.
[ 07-30-2011, 05:32 AM: Message edited by: Robin123 ]
Posts: 13116 | From San Francisco | Registered: May 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Cockapoo1996: Is it common for someone to "prove" their point by referencing themselves. 7 out of 11 references are from himself or co-author in his commentary.
LOL Cockapoo! Scary for sure. What is even more scary is the publication that accepted that as a proper piece of science.
-------------------- Country Mouse
6/2011 IgX: IGG: 31 IND, 41+++, 45+, 58+ IGM: 31+, 39 IND, 41 IND, 83-93 IND Band 31 confirmed to be Lyme epitope by Igenex 7/2011
8/2011 IgX: POSITIVE IGG: 31+, 34 IND, 39 IND, 41++, 45+, 58+ IGM: 31+, 34 IND, 39 IND, 41++, 83-93+ Posts: 169 | From Western Mass | Registered: May 2011
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BackinStOlaf
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 23725
posted
I hope this moron gets bit by an infected tick
-------------------- First Symptom 9/09 Multiple docs, negative Labcorp test LLMD: 1/10 Positive Igenex/CDC test Treatment 2/10 2/10-8/10 Amox, ceftin, zith, flagyl Currently: Bicillin, Minocycline, still dealing with severe breathing issues
Posts: 1121 | From New York, New York | Registered: Dec 2009
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randibear
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 11290
posted
they don't understand until somebody in their family gets lyme...
-------------------- do not look back when the only course is forward Posts: 12262 | From texas | Registered: Mar 2007
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posted
I am new to the whole Lyme like symptoms having only suspected lyme for the last month or so but having suffered for the last 9 months. I have been given the common run around. Was even told by an infectious disease dr just recently there is no lyme in Mo but he is willing to order the test to appease my mind. Thjere is lyme in Mo according to the CDC which he referred i reference.
Even as new as i am i can clearly see this Sigall guy is a quack and is a hinderance rather than a help to the Lyme infected community.
Posts: 8 | From Mo | Registered: Jul 2011
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METALLlC BLUE
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6628
posted
He hasn't the faintest idea what he's talking about. Those are "opinions" he listed, not facts. How he even got published is beyond my comprehension.
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
Tincup
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5829
posted
Gotta love this quote...
"For such patients, antibiotics are not warranted and in fact may be physically and emotionally harmful."
Antibiotics are "emotionally harmful"?
We better contact all the drug companies and have them add that "emotionally harmful" warning to their package inserts.
What a bunch of bull. That is as bad as the toads implying that after a tick bite and getting their cost-effective treatment you can't have Lyme anymore. No no. The tick must have given you fibromyalgia, or depression, or MS.
posted
Thanks, Boxermom! I wrote it to go along with a really funny link I was sent last nite, which I posted in Off-Topic -
it was a link to a political satire song about our Prez, "He is the very model of a modern US president," sung to the G&S one, "I am the very model of a modern major general."
but unfortunately the thread got removed from Off-Topic due to its being political,
so anyone is welcome to pm me if you're interested in the link to the G&S song parodying our Prez,
or you can google for the original song and listen to it that way -
[ 07-28-2011, 03:35 AM: Message edited by: Robin123 ]
Posts: 13116 | From San Francisco | Registered: May 2006
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posted
I would just love to know how these people sleep at night! I had an ER doc ask me how my sex life was as I was vomitting and crying due to a migraine. He gave me a shot of demerol and sent me home, no tests, MRI, bloodwork, nothing. I had a neuro tell me that I must be a "nervous nelly" as I sat in his office with tremors and twitches that I could not control. No tests, nothing.
There are a few others, but really....this just makes me so mad I can't even see straight!
BTW, Robin HILARIOUS!
-------------------- Down on her knees, she wept on the floor. This hopeless life, she wanted no more. Dead in the mind and cold to the bone, She opened her eyes and saw she was alone. ~Seether Posts: 427 | From Rhode Island | Registered: May 2011
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posted
OOPS! And of course we can be freaking depressed or anxious! We have lost so much and have no idea of the outcome, do they honestly think that will have no effect on our psyche???
-------------------- Down on her knees, she wept on the floor. This hopeless life, she wanted no more. Dead in the mind and cold to the bone, She opened her eyes and saw she was alone. ~Seether Posts: 427 | From Rhode Island | Registered: May 2011
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posted
Ok, I want a G&S rewrite prize...well, as I said above, I was inspired by a very funny version about the Prez, which anyone can pm me about and I can give you the link.
Also, I think TC's heading here sets up the joke quite nicely...thx to TC for all her humor -
Ok, I might even be inspired to work out the other verses...
Ok - here we go, 2nd verse'd, post-first...
I know your mythic history - your authors, and your care by docs. I answer: I hardly cross ticks, I've a pre-distaste for all your docs, I dote in all our journals, all the time, of how this hobbles us, I go nix, and can floor unruly rarities for all of us.
I can tell undoubted vapid ills - I share my doubts, it's often these - I know your growing chorus from your blogs: hot air cacophonies. Then I call dumb a few of which I've heard the medics' din afore. And bristle at your errors, your internal nonsense I ignore.
He bristles at our errors, our internal nonsense he ignores. He bristles at our errors, our internal nonsense he ignores. He bristles at our errors, our internal nonsense he ig-, he ignores.
Then I can cite I'm watching ills, and babble on in cunning form, And tell you ev'ry detail incorrect, to keep you uninformed. In short, what matters, I insist you all just need psychologists, I am the very model of a modern Lyme apologist.
In short, what matters, he insists, we all just need psychologists, He is the very model of a modern Lyme apologist.
[ 07-29-2011, 06:33 AM: Message edited by: Robin123 ]
Posts: 13116 | From San Francisco | Registered: May 2006
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posted
I used to get angry when I read articles like that.
Now I just get so depressed. How can these people deliberately make life so much harder for so many people and still sleep at night?
-------------------- Take care -kelly --------------- Posts: 330 | From TX | Registered: Mar 2009
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TerryK
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 8552
posted
I used to get mad or depressed, now I just shove their opinion and them aside (where they belong) and continue getting better with treatment from an LLMD who really DOES understand lyme disease.
From my own experience and reading I know IDSA are clueless and/or greedy. The best way to beat them is to get well and shout it from the rooftops. My doctors have been amazed at my progress even though it's been slow. Pain levels down 75-80% is pretty convincing that something is working.
My doctors still don't understand why I need treatment for so long but they do have serious doubts about the IDSA guidelines.
Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
Terry said, "The best way to beat them is to get well..."
Yeah - anytime we can say something to the docs about what has actually worked and beat the condition they are involved in -
like drinking noni juice and taking grapeseed extract capsules completely stops lipoma tumors for me, and I had unsuccessful surgery for one of them.
like drinking mangosteen juice completely stops Lyme eye symptoms, after the neuro-opthalmologist gave me some steroids to take, and I knew better by them -
like being able to lower my prolactin level with my Lyme treatment, when the establishment just has a drug I can't handle -
like being able to sweat detox out toxins when the allergist was just going to simply test for the problem -
Posts: 13116 | From San Francisco | Registered: May 2006
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Tincup
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5829
posted
Sigal seems to be genuinely interested in Lyme disease research before 1990. Big difference in tone of his articles.
Article: Cellular Immune Findings In Lyme Disease. Correlation With Serum IgM And Disease Activity. Date: November 1984 Journal: The American Journal Of Medicine Cellular immune findings were studied in 48 patients with various stages of Lyme disease. At each stage, some patients, particularly those with neuritis or carditis, had elevated serum IgM levels and lymphopenia. During early disease, mononuclear cells tended to respond normally to phytohemagglutinin, and spontaneous suppressor cell activity was greater than normal. Later, during active neuritis, carditis, or arthritis, the trend was toward heightened phytohemagglutinin responsiveness and less suppression than normal. By multiple regression analysis, serum IgM levels correlated directly with disease activity (p = 0.025) and inversely with the number of T cells (p = 0.02); during acute disease only, elevated IgM levels correlated with increased phytohemagglutinin responsiveness (p = 0.004) and decreased suppressor cell activity (p = 0.03). Decreased suppression, observed later in the disease, may permit damage to host tissues because of either autoimmune phenomena or a heightened response to the Lyme spirochete.
Article: Clinical Manifestations Of Lyme Disease. Date: June 1987 Journal: Zentralblatt F�r Bakteriologie, Mikrobiologie, Und Hygiene. Series A, Medical Microbiology, Infectious Diseases, Virology, Parasitology Lyme disease typically begins with a unique skin lesion, erythema chronicum migrans (ECM) (stage 1). Patients with this lesion may also have headache, meningeal irritation, mild encephalopathy, multiple annular secondary lesions, malar or urticarial rash, generalized lymphadenopathy and splenomegaly, migratory musculoskeletal pain, hepatitis, sore throat, non-productive cough, conjunctivitis, periorbital edema, or testicular swelling. After a few weeks to months (stage 2), about 15% of patients develop frank neurologic abnormalities, including meningitis, encephalitis, cranial neuritis (including bilateral facial palsy), motor or sensory radiculoneuritis, mononeuritis multiplex, or myelitis. At this time, about 8% of patients develop cardiac involvement--AV block, acute myopericarditis, cardiomegaly, or pancarditis. Throughout this stage, many patients continue to experience migratory musculoskeletal pain in joints, tendons, bursae, muscle, or bone. Months to years after disease onset (stage 3), about 60% of patients develop frank arthritis, which may be intermittent or chronic. Recently evidence suggests that Lyme disease may also be associated with chronic neurologic or skin involvement. Thus, Lyme disease occurs in stages with different clinical manifestations at each stage, but the course of the illness in each patient is highly variable.
Compared to this article which implores that treatment decisions should be based on cost. And of course the most recent article which says we all just have emotional problems.
Article: Empiric Parenteral Antibiotic Treatment Of Patients With Fibromyalgia And Fatigue And A Positive Serologic Result For Lyme Disease. A Cost-effectiveness Analysis. Date: September 1993 Journal: Annals Of Internal Medicine PURPOSE: To examine the cost-effectiveness of empirical, parenteral antibiotic treatment of patients with chronic fatigue and myalgia and a positive serologic result for Lyme disease who lack classic manifestations. DATA SOURCES: Peer-reviewed journals, opinion of experts in the field, and published epidemiologic reports. STUDY SELECTION: Consensus by authors on articles that indicated methods for patient selection; on criteria used for diagnosis; on immunologic methods used for classifying patients; on the dose and duration of therapy; and on criteria by which responses to therapy were ascertained. DATA EXTRACTION: In a cost-effectiveness model, the costs and benefits of empirical parenteral therapy for patients seropositive for Lyme disease were compared with a strategy in which only patients having classical symptoms of Lyme disease were treated. DATA SYNTHESIS: In areas endemic for Lyme disease, the incidence of false-positive serologic results in patients with nonspecific myalgia or fatigue exceeds by four to one the incidence of true-positive results in patients with nonclassical infections. Treatment of the former group of patients costs $86,221 for each true-positive patient treated. The empirical strategy causes 29 cases of drug toxicity for every case in the more conservative strategy. If patients were willing to pay $3485 to eliminate anxiety about not treating possible true Lyme disease, the empirical strategy would break even. CONCLUSION: For most patients with a positive Lyme antibody titer whose only symptoms are nonspecific myalgia or fatigue the risks and costs of empirical parenteral antibiotic therapy exceed the benefits. Only when the value of patient anxiety about leaving a positive test untreated exceeds the cost of such therapy is the empirical treatment cost-effective.
Tricky Tickey
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 26546
posted
I just threw up my spinach salad from lunch....
-------------------- Early Disseminated LD- 2010. Currently doing acupuncture and yoga. Negative Igenex (IND & Pos Bands) ISSUES AFTER: Tendonitis, letter reversal, Low immune system. PREVENTION:SaltC,Iodine,Humaworm, Chiropractic. Posts: 1013 | From In a van down by the river. | Registered: Jun 2010
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posted
OH no! - look what I'm following - this last verse comes with its own unique special visual effects!!
And thx, TC, for the - you started it!
And now for the turd verse rewrite of Gilbert & Sullivan's patter song "I am the very model of a modern major general," with all sLyme apologies...
In fact, when I know what is meant by mumble on/unravelin', When I can tell and cite a lousy trifle as I'm jabberin', When such affairs as sordid fact surprises I can vary at, And when I know precisely what is meant by "I'm not sorry at."
When I have burnt through progress that's been made in modern ology, When I can score with tactics, 'gainst a novice in Lymeology, In short, when I've been shattering with hella mental strategy, You'll say a better Lyme apologist has never shat on ye.
You'll say a better Lyme apologist has never shat on ye, You'll say a better Lyme apologist has never shat on ye, You'll say a better Lyme apologist has never shatta, shat on ye.
For my dilatory knowledge, yes I'm ducky, misadventury, has only brought you back to the beginning of the century, And still, what matters, I insist you all just need psychologists, I am the very model of a modern Lyme apologist.
And still, what matters, he insists, we all just need psychologists, He is the very model of a modern Lyme apologist.
[ 07-30-2011, 06:22 AM: Message edited by: Robin123 ]
Posts: 13116 | From San Francisco | Registered: May 2006
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