posted
I am very low on funds, so I purchased a bottle of Cat;s Claw pills. Not TOA free. Previously I had been taking Samento drops, with very little reaction.
I started the Cat's claw yesterday. 485mg pills, I took 2. Within 30 minutes I was beside myself. Major butterflies in the stomach, anxiety, dizzy, and a really horrible feeling all over. I just feel sick and nasty.
Am I taking too much? Was I taking too little of the Samento drops? I took 30 drops, twice a day. Does Cat's Claw do something that the Samento does not? I thought it was the other way around.
OR am I having a reaction to the Cat's Claw that I would not have were it TOA free. I have heard mixed things about TOA free. One that it is the only thing that you should take. Another that it isn't a very big difference, and yet another that regular Cat's claw is actually better.
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lymeboy
Unregistered
posted
I actually slept pretty good.
Today I felt not great but not bad until I took another 2 pills at 2pm on an empty stomach. Same reaction as yesterday. An awful hot feeling in my neck and head. I am still able to be up and about. But the neuro stuff is pretty bad.
I don't get an upset stomach, just an incredibly nervous feeling in my stomach. Butterflies, anxiety.
yes 30 - 60 minutes after taking the pills, on an empty stomach.
I got the cheapest brand, from Iherb, Nature's way.
is 485mg too little? I am totally clueless about a good dosage. the Samento, I just did by drops. And like I said, I felt almost nothing.
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posted
I am taking the cat's claw tincture (up to 5 drops twice a day right now) and usually notice an increase in my neuro symptoms (tingling and creepy crawly sensations in my legs) within 15 to 30 minutes after taking it. So I have no doubt that you could be reacting that quickly.
If I were you, I would cut back on the dose and see what happens. I have seen several people mention on this board that cat's claw is very strong, and I now believe them.
I switched for a couple of days last week to the samento tincture. I also noticed a reaction shortly after taking that, but not as strong of a one.
Posts: 227 | From Northeast | Registered: Mar 2010
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I was taking Cats Claw in the period that led to me crashing with Lyme borreliose, so I was wondering what the cause could be since it tested positive with energytesting. Before crashing I was doing relatively fine.
Later I found this remark in a German book on Lyme: Petra Hopf-Seidel MD writer of the book 'Krank nach Zeckenstich'. (Sick after a tickbite): "In vitro research of Prof Sievers, W�denswil has shown that Cats Claw not only works for the immunesystem, but it also stimulates Borrelia in its growth. Therefore I only recommend Cats Claw in combination with AB."
Maybe this could explain a few things.
The research by Prof. Martin Sievers was done with Samento, which is a Toa free Cats Claw. The research in favor of Samento is done by Eva Sapi, who is figuring a lot in the publicity done by Nutramedix, the company that sells the stuff. In the texts she claims succes with Samento, but only in vitro(testtube), in quantities corresponding to those that in vivo(body) would be impossible to support or afford. The publications are clear and open on this matter.
Martin Sievers is the head of the Molecular Biology section of the Zurich University of Applied Sciences and director of the Culture Collection of Switzerland. He studied biology at the Leibniz University of Hannover, focusing on microbiology and biochemistry. Martin Sievers received his PhD from the Christian-Albrechts-University of Kiel. In 1990 he joined the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (ETH) Zurich, where he described Acetobacter europaeus, isolated from industrial vinegar fermentations, and Acetobacter intermedius, isolated from kombucha tea, as two new species. In 1997 he moved to the Zurich University of Applied Sciences as a lecturer at the Institute of Biotechnology and was appointed Professor in 2002. He teaches Bachelors and Masters students in the fields of microbiology and molecular biology. Martin Sievers has also been involved in many research projects funded by the Innovation Promotion Agency CTI in Bern, Switzerland. Projects carried out with industrial partners include work on the identification of wine lactic acid bacteria, expression of membrane proteins, and diagnostics and therapy for Lyme disease.
-------------------- "They that are whole have no need for the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous but sinners to repentance"(Mark 2.17) Posts: 149 | From Amsterdam | Registered: Jul 2011
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Brussels
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 13480
posted
Buhner has also researched cats claw in many publications. I don't think cats claw ever stimulate borrelia overgrowth. I took it for at least 2 years when I needed to keep symptoms down.
Many people go to symptom free phase and only take cats claw to continue symptomless. Herxes reactions to cats claw are massive, and you can track hundreds of posts here in LN since 2005 or even before, as dr. K and dr. C were already using it before Buhner.
Here in wonderful Switzerland, we are not allowed to buy borrelia nosodes anymore. There is a movement to take off all alternative treatments from the market so that we rely only on abx and chemicals and become slaves of symptom control chemicals.
The best lyme doctor in Switzerland is a full ISDA follower who only saw 2 cases of babesia the time I saw him in 2005-2006.
No way the Swiss are advanced on research of Borreliosis. ------ I agree on Nutramedix though, that the major propaganda toward TOA FREE cats claw can be flawed. I took both, and I NO DOUBT prefer the whole cats claw.
Some people though feel better on Samento but for what I keep reading in LN since Buhner book publication, more people react better with whole cats claw than Samento (toa free). Buhner doesn't buy this story of Toa free.
I have to confess though that in a COUPLE of times, I reacted better to the Samento tincture than to powder. But 98% of the time I was with cats claw (for more than 2 years, and I reached remission with it and other stuff), I took WHOLE POWDER from Raintree. It's the best, in my opinion.
People think we are imagining things but 15min to 30 min is the time I started to herx after cats claw. Exactly. I never had to wait 1 hour to feel the effect. Never.
It is pretty strong stuff, and I recommend never taking Buhner's herbs without a complete detox program, because when the herbs start killing, you got a lot to clean after. If you keep cleaning, you only feel improvement, without much suffering. If you only kill, you can feel better, worse, better, worse, and maybe remain in the worse for very long, even go backwards in your progress.
my feeling. Add andrographis, Japanese knotweed, eleutherococus and you'll know what I mean. The herx can be massive.
Posts: 6199 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007
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lymeboy
Unregistered
posted
well I am already on ABX. I am going to see a new doc next week, so we'll see what she says. Probably more integrative TX. But I agree, The Cat's Claw is really kicking my butt. Took it today and the same thing, 30 minutes later I had major anxiety and butterflies in the stomach. I only took one pill today, so the reaction was not as severe.
I have not been able to find any other research that supports Siever's claims. That doesn't mean it isn't true, just that there seems to be more evidence to the contrary.
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Have you noticed any other symptoms from the cat's claw?
I'm finding that my muscles are aching much more than usual and I think I'm more tired, although it's hard to say since major fatigue has always been my biggest problem.
Posts: 227 | From Northeast | Registered: Mar 2010
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lymeboy
Unregistered
posted
It gives me a very woozy feeling. Kind of dizzy, but not the tippy floaty sensation of Babesia, but more of a drunk kind of feeling. Extra forgetful, more so than usual. I get uncomfortable feeling in my neck and back. not so much pain, but almost like my neck is nauseous, if that make ANY sense at all. Its just a weird sensation. Kind of like my insides are doing somersaults.
I get Muscle aches really bad in my legs, I think this is from babs as well. they just feel like there is 200 lb weights on them. Ugh. Doesnt coincide with cat's Claw, though. The biggest thing is the "butterflies", nervous feeling, anxiety and that wooziness I was describing. blechhhh.
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I think I know what you mean about the neck being nauseous--I had that a couple of times in the last few days in my back, in the kidney area. Only other time I've had that is when I was herxing from doxy when I first treated in 2008.
How long have you been treating lyme?
Posts: 227 | From Northeast | Registered: Mar 2010
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lymeboy
Unregistered
posted
I've been at it since February of 2010. Saw my first LLMD that April. Went with a second LLMD this past April, and now I'm trading up again. I guess for now, Ill stick with the Cat's Claw. Seems to be doing something. I don't get reactions like this from ABX.
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