posted
Son of a gun!! Just when I thought I was almost done, now I have new problems.
My liver enzymes have slowly been elevating these past 3 months. Bilirubin and other indicators have been normal.
Starting 2 days ago, I started feeling a bloating and internal soreness on the right side of my abdomen.
Also starting 2 days ago, my feces have been very pale in color - like a tan color instead of brown.
Just today I noticed that the feces was so pale, that it might be serious.
Another factor is that I'm getting a blood draw tomorrow morning for some blood tests, including a complete hepatic (liver function) panel.
Do you guys think I might have something serious and need to speak with a doctor? Should I just wait it out?
I was going to do a coffee enema today, but also was considering a castor oil pack for my first time. BUT... a dilemmas I have is that I don't want to do the castor oil pack if it will "artificially" make my liver look healthier than it truly is tomorrow on the blood draw.
scorpiogirl
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posted
Ah...I feel your pain. I had the same issues last month and boy did my level climb up FAST! I felt horrible for 2 weeks!
I think it's safe to do the castor oil packs b/c it's not going to fix your problem over night. It took me a good 3 weeks to get my liver enzymes to drop back to normal. But the white part of my eyes are still slightly yellow...so I suspect I still got a lot of detoxing to do.
Milk Thistle and Cholestyramine helps a bunch too. Good luck!
-------------------- Posts: 1391 | From Lyme Land | Registered: May 2011
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glm1111
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James,
Have you tx for parasites at all? The first thing that comes to mind is a possibility that you may have some liver flukes.
You may not be producing enough bile if that's the case. Of course have everything else checked out.
Gael
-------------------- PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS* Posts: 6418 | From philadelphia pa | Registered: Jul 2008
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James1979
Unregistered
posted
Oh my goodness, thank you both for your advice!
Scorpio - I'm so glad you told me that it wouldn't change my numbers overnight. I was curious about that. I'm already taking a ton of milk thistle, but not cholestyramine.
I recently started taking green clay, and they say that's good for liver detox.
I don't have my flannels yet for doing the liver packs (I'm expecting them to come tomorrow), but I might use whatever I can find today just to try it once.
Gael - I have done the salt/C for a couple of months, plus I've taken the common antiparasitic herbs (ParaClear product) for a couple of months. I had done these probably on your advice! I didn't notice any changes when starting either of those products, and when I stopped them, again I didn't notice any changes.
In general, I'm feeling super healthy right now. It's just that I have to keep taking abx for a short while longer, and I have to take care of my liver.
My new LLMD is running a bunch of tests for microbes that I think affect the liver, so I wonder if this is similar to what Gael is saying concerning "parasites". I'm guessing that my LLMD is already looking for that kind of stuff, but I'm not positive.
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scorpiogirl
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Did you do the Salt/C while you were on Antibiotics? I would like to try but I don't know if I can do that while I'm on IV antibiotics. No one seems to know either... I'm still researching that part.
A word on castor oil packs. They are very relaxing but can be messy. So make sure you got a towel to wrap around yourself. And do not keep it on for longer than 2 hours if you don't plan to spend your evening on the throne!!
-------------------- Posts: 1391 | From Lyme Land | Registered: May 2011
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glm1111
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posted
Even though the Ova and Parasites test are not always accurate, ask your doc to do them in the off chance that something shows up. I hope you get this figured out. Let us know,
Gael
-------------------- PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS* Posts: 6418 | From philadelphia pa | Registered: Jul 2008
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James1979
Unregistered
posted
Scorpio - yeah, I did the salt/C while I was on antibiotics. I don't know the answer to your question either. The one thing I do know for sure is that it shouldn't be taken within 2 hours of tetracyclines, because of how the minerals make the tetracyclines less effective.
Thanks a lot for mentioning about how messy they are. You probably just prevented me from making a big mess on my floor! I didn't know that they were relaxing... I didn't expect to feel anything at all.
Gael - thanks again for the concern and the advice.
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James1979
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posted
Question: Would it work to just use an old cotton hand-towel for the caster oil liver packs? If so, why isn't this mentioned more frequently? Why all the fuss about flannels?
Question #2: My thoughts have been bothering me about this liver thing, and I feel worried. I read on the internet that pale stools can indicate a serious problem, and there could be a liver or gallbladder obstruction which is an emergency.
If there ever happens to be a liver or gallbladder emergency, what is the best thing to do? Is it so serious that I have to call an ambulance? Would I have time to seek advice from my GP?
Secondly, if I ever end up going to the ER, would the docs there most-likely give me some kind of steroids? I'm afraid of steroids because of how they lower the immune system. Could I just write on my stomach: "WARNING! Don't give me any steroids!!", or would steroids be necessary in a case like this? What do you guys suggest?
Sorry if these questions are stupid. It's just that the internet articles make it sound like there might be a serious problem, and then I started getting worried.
posted
I think many of my symptoms throughout this illness have been related to my liver (and parasites).
James, will you let us know what that test is you're referring to once you confirm with your Dr? (test for liver microbes)
Gael, will anti-parasitic herbs (Colonix, Parastroy) or Salt-C take care of liver flukes or can the flukes get "stuck" in the ducts? Have you done a liver/gallbladder flush before?
Posts: 57 | From Washington, DC | Registered: Apr 2011
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scorpiogirl
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Ok put a towel on the spot where you're planning to sit or lay down. (I do this in my birthday suit to avoid ruining my clothes). Place the cloth soaked w/ castor oil on your belly more to right. Then cover w/ a trash bag. Then put the heat pad on, wrap the towel around yourself. Take a nap, read a book or watch a show. It's soo relaxing you might fall asleep! Enjoy it... it's one of my favorite things to do!
-------------------- Posts: 1391 | From Lyme Land | Registered: May 2011
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James1979
Unregistered
posted
Grat - I'll PM you later with the tests. They're weird ones that I've never heard about, but I know some are related to the liver. I don't like to post my personal specifics publicly.
Scorpio - thanks a ton for the instructions! Those are the ones I will follow.
Shoot, I had another question, but now I forgot what it was.
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glm1111
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Grat,
I have never done a liver/gallbladder flush, but I have read that a lot of folks find them very helpful I think there is an order to it.
Check on the Hulda Clark site for more info on this. One month of antiparasitic herbs are not enough.
Hulda Clark suggests doing maintenance on these herbs forever, You have to listen to your body and intuition as to what works for you.
Gael
-------------------- PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS* Posts: 6418 | From philadelphia pa | Registered: Jul 2008
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glm1111
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posted
Grat,
I have never done a liver/gallbladder flush, but I have read that a lot of folks find them very helpful I think there is an order to it.
Check on the Hulda Clark site for more info on this. One month of antiparasitic herbs are not enough.
Hulda Clark suggests doing maintenance on these herbs forever, You have to listen to your body and intuition as to what works for you.
Gael
-------------------- PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS* Posts: 6418 | From philadelphia pa | Registered: Jul 2008
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James1979
Unregistered
posted
Okay, I finally remembered my question:
How often do you have to do the liver packs in order to lower the liver enzymes? Every day? A few times a week?
manybites
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 33750
posted
You need to do liver flushes to clean the stones that are created in the center with a dead parasite when you did the parasite cleansings.
I have done 9 of them all together and beilive me at the 3 time I was still chasing parasites released the flukes that had blocked my liver and had shoulder pain .
In no way I could handle antibiotics without doing the cleansings and liver flushes.Go to CUREZONE.com and read about all cleansings and parasites .
You will never regreat.Also it will help your liver to handle more abx without having liver enzymes high.
Posts: 1379 | From disable | Registered: Aug 2011
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James1979
Unregistered
posted
I apologize for bumping this so soon, but I'm very worried, because it feels like my liver is swollen.
can anybody please answer the following questions? I copied them from an earlier post of mine: If there ever happens to be a liver or gallbladder emergency, what is the best thing to do? Is it so serious that I have to call an ambulance? Would I have time to seek advice from my GP?
Secondly, if I ever end up going to the ER, would the docs there most-likely give me some kind of steroids? I'm afraid of steroids because of how they lower the immune system. Could I just write on my stomach: "WARNING! Don't give me any steroids!!", or would steroids be necessary in a case like this? What do you guys suggest?
Sorry if these questions are stupid. It's just that the internet articles make it sound like I might have a serious problem, and then I started getting worried.
scorpiogirl
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 31907
posted
James1979,
The good thing about the liver is that it can regenerate itself pretty quickly provided you don't do anything else to damage it. As I said my levels went back to the normal range w/in 3 weeks.
I suggest doing the Castor oil packs every day if you have the time. Otherwise at least 3 straight days. Good luck. Keep us posted!
-------------------- Posts: 1391 | From Lyme Land | Registered: May 2011
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"If there ever happens to be a liver or gallbladder emergency, what is the best thing to do? Is it so serious that I have to call an ambulance? Would I have time to seek advice from my GP?" and �Do you guys think I might have something serious and need to speak with a doctor? Should I just wait it out?�
So, I�m wondering, is your GP helping you treat the Lyme? Could you express your concerns to your GP now? Maybe that would prevent a trip to the ER.
I've had both a liver emergency (long before Lyme) and gallbladder emergency (I had Lyme but didn't know it). In both cases I ended up in the ER. So, maybe you should make a plan ahead of time...just in case...sure hope it doesn't come to that.
Tenderness in the area of the liver and very pale stools can be symptoms of hepatitis. Do you have any yellowing of the skin, or of the whites of your eyes?
I'm not trying to upset you, but�gall bladder issues can be extremely painful. The kind of painful that could send you to the ER. I think it would be good to check with your doctor, and not ride it out. It could help you find some answers, and put your mind more at ease than waiting.
About the steroids�just tell the ER doctor, or any doctor, that you cannot take steroids, or mark it down on the admission form. It�s OK to say No!
Hope you feel better soon. Take care.
Posts: 873 | From WA | Registered: Dec 2005
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James1979
Unregistered
posted
Scorpio and hopeful - I can't thank you guys enough.�
I wrote a longer response, but it accidentally got erased because it says my IP is banned, and now I don't have time to retype it.�
Does this sensation sound familiar to anyone: ? I have a constant feeling of soreness on the right side of my abdomen, in between the bottom of the rib cage and the waist-line. It feels like there is something in there, like a rock or something. I can feel it especially if I lift up my right leg, or if I stretch by lifting my right arm. There is never any pain, it just feels sore and like something is in there. I've had this for 2 days now (3 days in a few hours), and it seems to be constantly getting worse.�
I checked out some diagrams of the liver, but it looks like my sore spot is lower than the liver. But I'm not sure. I would guess that it feels like the intestines, but I'm definitely not constipated or anything like that.�
Thanks for the insight. I feel anxious because I don't know what this is.�
Good night everyone. I feel so thankful to everyone here.
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BoxerMom
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posted
Ummmm...I can't believe that nobody has pointed this out...pale stools and right sided abdominal pain are the classic signs of gallstones obstructing the bile duct. If you have dark urine and/or a high temperature, you are in trouble.
This is an emergency situation. Complications include infection and a dangerous rise in bilirubin. Possibly sepsis.
This is no joke. Get to the ER.
They may want to remove your gallbladder. Own up to the castor oil packs, coffee enemas, and anything else you've done. You've probabaly dislodged a large stone, or a bunch of flukes.
Ask if there is any way to remove the blockage without taking the gallbladder. Surgeons love to remove gallbladders. I think they get extra credit.
posted
Today my stools have returned to a beautiful shade of dark brown, and the strange sensation is mostly gone from my right side.�
My wonderful GP accepted to see me today, and he said he's not worried. He explained to me the stuff I'd have to keep an eye out for.�
Last night I did my first castor oil pack, and I think it was very good for me. I could feel strange movements near my liver while I was doing it. I wonder if that cleared up some kind of obstruction.�
Today I received a more appropriate flannel and a proper heating pad (God bless Jeff Bezos), and I'm about an hour into my castor oil pack treatment now. I feel very good. �
I bought an ebook from Amazon today about castor oil packs, but it's kinda trippy. The author talks a lot about psychics and about reincarnations. I was like "woah". I'm not even kidding. Dang, it got good reviews, too!
Thanks everyone for your help!!! I'm feeling lots of love for everyone here.�
I'm starting to think that castor oil packs are amazingly therapeutic. I'm so glad I started them, with you guys' help.�
My only question is: has anyone found a way to do the castor oil liver packs without having to lie down constantly? Like, would I be able to do them while sitting in a chair? It's kinda tough to have to be on the ground for so long.
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17hens
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Member # 23747
posted
Have you read my thread, "Topic: Liver Packs and Bile Duct Flushes"? I dont' think the link to it works so you'll have to search for it.
My daughter sits in a chair while she does them. Put a plastic bag (we cut a trash bag) and wrap it around her waist, closing it with clothes pins. And put a big towel over the chair where you will sit.
Put a hot pad (as hot as you can stand it) on the plastic over the liver/pad and then cover up with a towel or blanket.
We are a mess and have large greasy marks on the back of our recliner. I'm sure you won't be as messy as we are.
Glad you're feeling better.
-------------------- "My flesh and my heart may fail, but God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever." Psalms 73:26
bit 4/09, diagnosed 1/10 Posts: 3043 | From PA | Registered: Dec 2009
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posted
I'm so glad to hear you're doing better and that your GP is not worried!!! I can imagine how scary that was.
I still haven't tried castor oil packs but have heard such great things about them.
What is "appropriate" flannel?
I believe lying down works with gravity to help move stones/sludge through the ducts. Specifically I think its good to lie on your right side with knees bent.
In Chinese Medicine, the liver meridian's peak energy flow is at 3 a.m. I have read that its important to be lying down at this time (1-3 a.m.). Even if you can't sleep, its important to be lying down for this valuable cleansing time.
I don't know if you still get some benefit while sitting up w castor oil pack. Anyone?
Posts: 57 | From Washington, DC | Registered: Apr 2011
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posted
Oh nevermind about my flannel question James. I see 17hen's post "Liver Packs and Bile Duct Flushes". All is explained! I see you found it also.
Posts: 57 | From Washington, DC | Registered: Apr 2011
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scorpiogirl
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 31907
posted
Glad to hear you're feeling better! Keep it up. I know for a fact it helped to lower my liver enzymes.
I posted about a few months back when I first started my IV antibiotic and my liver enzymes jumped up significantly in a short period of time.
It happened again w/ in Aug when we added Artemisinin... but this time the levels went even higher and felt horrible! Kept thinking it was a herx, but turned out to be liver damage. I did more castor oil packs and cholestyramine and felt much better.
So keep it up!! It's one of the most effect method to detox that I know of.
-------------------- Posts: 1391 | From Lyme Land | Registered: May 2011
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posted
yipes. just read this or i'd've been on you like a monkey on a cupcake..
be really careful, james. it sounds like you had an inflammation or transient obstruction (ie small stone) in perhaps a duct.
seriously. i don't know how often you do liver dumping excercises such as coffee enemas or other cleanses including castor oil pacs, but be more careful.
i have had pancreatitis as a result of cleansing, and was feeling pretty healthy prior a raging problem as a result of a liver release and overtaxing the organs. liver, pancreas, GB are fragile life forces within you that have delicate balance.
you can get stones caught in ducts and other issues. your symptoms were spot on for GB or liver obstruction. i'm not saying don't cleanse, just to be very careful.
imo you should stick with only good binders and gentle herbs that cleanse and NOURISH the organs. preferable all going in the direction of north to south, at least for a while. my buck and 2 cents.
take care of you!
mo
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James1979
Unregistered
posted
Dear Mo, "Like a monkey on a cupcake"? But we barely know each other! LOL! Just kidding.
Thanks a lot for the advice. It's nice to hear another viewpoint. I will remember what you have said.
As a note to everyone here: I really think the castor oil packs were helpful in eliminating this problem. After the first one the sensation in my side was much less noticeable, but it was still there. Also, after the first one my stools returned to normal color. After the second one the sensation in my side was completely gone. Now I've done three, and I feel wonderful.
I've even been able to do them while sitting! What a blessing.
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scorpiogirl
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posted
I'm glad to hear that James!! I knew you would like doing it.
Mo can you explain how doing cleansing causes your pancreatitis??
I know for me personally, the MOST effective method of detoxing my liver is the castor oil packs. I know it's not scientific but w/ my weekly lab works to back it up I am fairly confident it is helping me. Cholestyramine helps too but no where near as effective as the Castor oil packs. I try to do both now when I find the time.
For folks like myself w/ the dreaded genotype where I cannot detox, I have no choice but to try the different methods. So I am interested in learning how it caused you harm. And how do you know it was from cleansing that caused your pancreatitis and not something else?
-------------------- Posts: 1391 | From Lyme Land | Registered: May 2011
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posted
i'm an avid proponent of cleansing. i think it's very important for everyone. i am cautioning that cleansing can indeed cause very serious problems if a toxin dump is not dealt with appropriately, or imo if organs are overstimulated by unnatural means.
castor oil pacs are more healing as well as stimulating, but they do stimulate and should be done with that awareness, and a balance. even a detox footbath will cause the liver to dump.
i had an attack of acute pancreatitis, hospitalized for three days in fact, immediately following liver cleansing. too much toxins and infection dumped for my pancreas to handle.
at the time i was only using chlorella and clay footbaths. these, like castor oils pacs and enemas seem more benign than they are if you are toxic especially.
they are naturally healing methods, but can still cause a near death crisis in an organ as delicate as your liver or pancreas.
i thought to warn james. perhaps your detox program is fine, scorpiogirl, i do not know.
just be careful because as i said, these organs are fragile life forces...the center of everything. when they malfunction, it's a critical issue.
be careful and have a well-rounded understanding, the methods can be wonderful at the right time.
i prefer to mainly take things internally to support my own body and organs to do the work. i only do things that "squeeze" or "tug at" the organ if i have a detox crisis. over-stimulating is not good.
i believe we should cleanse in nourishing ways as much as possible.
mo
[ 09-18-2011, 10:01 PM: Message edited by: Mo ]
Posts: 8337 | From the other shore | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
btw james, your kefir and kombucha go a long way in accomplishing the same.
m
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James1979
Unregistered
posted
Mo - I greatly respect your viewpoints on detoxing safely. You speak just like my ND speaks. But I know that there are also many other opinions out there. Either way, it's nice to hear everyone, and to be aware so that we can be watchful instead of ignorant.
I didn't know that kefir was good for detox! That's cool. I already knew that they say the kombucha is good for cleaning the liver, but sometimes I've doubted it's effectiveness, because it seems that there are only anecdotal reports and no evidence.
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scorpiogirl
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posted
Mo,
thanks for the reminder... we are all different... so one method may work well for one person but not the next. We just each have to find what works for us.
For me Kefir did absolutely nothing at all. I'm not sure Milk Thistle is helping either. Cholestrymine is somewhat helpful but I'm unable to take the 4 doses due to time... so I don't know for sure.
James if you want some recipes to make your own Kefir PM me and I'm happy to forward them to you. They are easy to make but did not help me.
However, I'm going to experiment w/ them again to give to my 6 years old and see if it helps her.
----------------------------------------
Ok I checked w/ my girlfriend who is fighting cancer. She uses Kefir as a Probiotic and NOT as a detox! Good to know... I'll try it again since I have a harder time getting daughter to drink the powder probiotics!
-------------------- Posts: 1391 | From Lyme Land | Registered: May 2011
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James1979
Unregistered
posted
Scorpio - I drink both milk and water kefir daily, so they can't be much of a help, because my enzymes were still elevated.
But... I recently started drinking a ton of kombucha within this last month. (I forgot to mention that to you in my last PM... That could've been another factor).
It is frequently quoted that kombucha is good for the liver, but I couldn't find any scientific evidence.
Either way, kombucha is SUUUUPER tasty! I highly recommend it to everyone. Plus they say it boosts the immune system, and kills candida.
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posted
i was referring to the fact that healthy gut flora (which takes allot of time and balance, so kefir and kombucha done right over a long period of time, or other means) goes a very long way to keep your entire digestive system nourished and cleansed. the good bacteria is really the best way, it effects all the organs and gets them metabolizing, even the kidneys.. but takes time.. it would not lower elevated liver enzymes quickly.
kombucha works in similar ways in the system as apple cider vinegar.
the harsher methods cause the organs to contract and release bile if you need to address a toxic overload. that you need to be careful with and have propoer binders, ect. still, you don't want to rely on it, because it won't address the cause of the toxins and the liver becomes dependant.
i don't disagree with your approaches, i've done hulda clark liver cleanses when needed and they helped allot.
i'm merely cautioning.
m
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I didn't notice any changes when starting either of those products, and when I stopped them, again I didn't notice any changes.
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LOL! Just kidding. 
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I'm not sure Milk Thistle is helping either. Cholestrymine is somewhat helpful but I'm unable to take the 4 doses due to time... so I don't know for sure. 
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