posted
After being taken off abx last month my llmd said he wants me to take artemisinin for possible babesia (since blood work is negative). I still have all same issues as when I was diagnosed a year ago with lyme.
My dizziness and headaches have not stopped at all..24/7. The doctors PA chose this herb to try and said to start slowly (only 100mg a day) to see what happens.
I am afraid to take the pill since I get dizzier on everything else. I am alone now while my hubby is away doing repair from the hurricane and in fear that I wont be able to get up to the bathroom again without falling.
Anyone else every try this herb and what were your side affects? I would really appreciate your input..thanx
-------------------- Diagnosed with chronic neuro lyme 12/10 after 30 years of vertigo.2 tick bites in 3 yrs from upstate NY. Was on omincef for nine mths..zith and rifampin stopped.Remission~ All the pain and symptoms are back and I am not treating now with biaxin. Posts: 788 | From New york..queens | Registered: Nov 2010
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scorpiogirl
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This was a HARD herb for me. It definitely made my wooziness worse. My dizzy spells come and go though so it's not always constant. But I felt loopy all the same.
This herb also caused my liver enzymes to spike, so overall made me pretty sick for about 2 weeks before I figured it out and stop taking it. So do be careful and go S L O W. Good luck!
-------------------- Posts: 1391 | From Lyme Land | Registered: May 2011
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What dosagage did you start at? What did you finally take for babs in the end>
-------------------- Diagnosed with chronic neuro lyme 12/10 after 30 years of vertigo.2 tick bites in 3 yrs from upstate NY. Was on omincef for nine mths..zith and rifampin stopped.Remission~ All the pain and symptoms are back and I am not treating now with biaxin. Posts: 788 | From New york..queens | Registered: Nov 2010
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scorpiogirl
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My LLMD said 2 pills (200mg each) 2x a day. 5 days on 2 days off for the first two weeks of each month. But I only started w/ ONE pill 2x per day. I don't ever start any meds at the full dosage since I very petite and very sensitive.
I did that in August but did not take in Sept. I am not taking anything for Babs right now. I'm having issues w/ Rocephin... and since I don't have a positive Babs blood test it's not a priority at this time. We will re-visit this at some point but right now I have bigger issues to resolve.
-------------------- Posts: 1391 | From Lyme Land | Registered: May 2011
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posted
If you have never taken babesia meds before then the herx or side effects will be worse in my opinion.
Also, I would not take this herb by itself for more than a month or so without adding in other babesia meds or you may develop resistance.
It is hard to predict what your response will be. Taking artemisinin is a good way to test to see if you really have babesia. It should not cause much of a reaction at all if you do not have babesia (blood borne parasite) or possibly G.I. parasites.
One of the more common side effects with artemisinin is increased sweats -- could be any time of day or night. I am referring to sweating for no obvious reason -- not based on exertion.
You could have increased air hunger or increased dizziness or any of the other babesia symptoms. Unfortunately that is how you will know that the herb is trying to work.
Yes, the herb can raise liver enzymes, but usually would require higher doses (above 300 or so mg per day). And that can be corrected as the body adjusts to the herb and the dieoff lessens. Dandelion root capsules added to his milk thistle worked for hubby.
Maybe you could have a friend or family member come stay for a few hours if you are really worried about the first dose.
But I would not let fear stop me from giving it a try.
Bea Seibert
Posts: 7306 | From Martinsville,VA,USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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manybites
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posted
Woww you have had dizzenes for 30 years .I recall my headaches were from 30 years and sharp pain in the head and first dizeness 20 years ago.
Artemisin was the one that kept me alive and still does in 4 year of NON beeing treated fully for babs,
You have a babs strain maybe 2 .The head is the one that is mostly efected and the enzymes are high due to high level of infection in the liver.
Have you done liver flushes after the parasites cleansings ?Have you done liver or kidney cleanses?
search here under Mini flushes ..coffe enemas , parasite cleansings....all this will help you lower the infections bacteria/parasites in the liver and flushes will help you detox geth them out of the liver so the liver can handle herbs and drugs to kill the infections.
Sometime there might be other TBD in the liver ...but parasite cleansings and mini flushes ( or liver flush should be done ) so you can handle ( your liver gut ) can handle the killing process.
If you react to artemisin start very very slowly and ramp up to ( I know 3 times a day x8 pills when 1 pill is 350mg artemisin annua is a dangerous NON ALLOWED to be taken) anything but below the dosage above...CHeck artemisin from Dr Z in NY.
Never take that amount above as does cause damages but start with 1 pill for days until you handle it without RINGING in the ear and not much herx...than you can increase to 2 or 3 .... It took me one year to reach 6 pills a day since the relapse from the car accident and being hositalized and not allowed to take artemisin while in it.
NEver start a high dosage only slowly ( if you want open the capsule and take 1/2 or1/4 of it). Very slowly ramp up .In the mean time check parasites cleansings.
My liver was chocked up from parasites and stones before I started to take artemisin .The cleansing helped me to be able to raise the number of pills .But you still need mepron or malarone with azithromycin to not create resistance and to kill liver stage. I still had the liver stage that is why babesia eksploded.
I know people that stayed 3 years in mepron due to dizzenes and that came from babesia and never had a pozitive test.
Posts: 1379 | From disable | Registered: Aug 2011
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scorpiogirl
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posted
seibertneurolyme,
How long did it take for your body to get use to the artemisinin? The 10 days I was on it damaged my liver significantly and made me feel very very sick! Took me 3 weeks w/ heavy duty detox to get the levels down to the normal range. My eyes are still pretty yellow from this though.
So while I do want to give it another shot... I don't know if I will to risk more liver damage...
-------------------- Posts: 1391 | From Lyme Land | Registered: May 2011
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posted
bhunner says in his book you must take a break from art every 30 days otherwise it becomes less effective and that may also have something to do iwth liver toxicity !
Posts: 294 | From sw chicago suburbs | Registered: Apr 2007
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Hubby is the one with lyme etc -- I can't really say how long it took him to adjust to the herb because there were several hospital stays for serratia infections and high fevers and then starts and stops on various med combos.
If your eyes are yellow that is a sign that the bilirubin could be elevated -- do you also have itchy skin?
The one thing that hubby says helps the most I forgot to mention -- phosphatidylcholine from the source below. (BodyBio PC) I have no connection to the company, but think this is one of the best sources.
He takes 1 tablespoon once daily -- but you have to work up to that dose. A 16 ounce bottle lasts one month at that dose. Says it tastes like burnt motor oil. He takes it after meals. Also takes ox bile with meals to help with fat absorption.
Yes, I know that Dr F says a low fat diet -- but that will not work for everyone. Hubby needs the good fats for his brain and phosphatidylcholine is a good fat. It is used to make the myelin coating for the nerves and also is needed to make the liver function correctly -- think I have read that it can lower cholesterol.
And yes, there are journal abstracts that say babesia needs phosphatidylcholine to survive -- but that means it is being robbed from your body. And I just read recently that ehrlichia/anaplasma needs cholesterol. It is no wonder these infections can cause nerve damage.
I would start with just 1 or 2 capsules of artemisinin daily and then try increasing the dose on a weekly basis. Hubby's new protocol is to take the artemisinin on MWF only -- we had tried M-TH (4 days in a row and then 3 days off before). Not real sure which way is the easiest to tolerate.
This is not medical advice, just my opinion based on hubby's experiences.
Bea Seibert
P.S. A cheaper but less concentrated source of phosphatidylcholine is lecithin. Hubby has taken that in the past, but during aggressive babesia treatment we switched back to the phoschol.
Posts: 7306 | From Martinsville,VA,USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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scorpiogirl
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Ok thank you Bea,
I'll revisit that next month... I having other issues I have to deal with right now.
-------------------- Posts: 1391 | From Lyme Land | Registered: May 2011
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MannaMe
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My husband started artemisinin recently. He hasn't had a problem with it. He did start out at 1/3 the dose his doctor recommended. Is currently at 2/3's.
Posts: 2252 | From USA | Registered: Aug 2011
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posted
i take 3 days on and 3 off. this seems to ward against any liver toxicity (i have labs run every week right now) and sweeps babesia away in the three days.
artimisinin and it's derivatives kill babesia in the bloodstream very quickly at it's full concentration levels. art blood level is studied to drop at least 50% after three consecutive days of use, so why use it longer?
you regain all concentration after three days off. getting babesia in the blood once again..
each time i have done the three day course, the babesia and die off symptoms have lessened, they were bad at first.
i will continue this if it continues working this well.
my next consideration would be every other day, or MWF like bea's hubby.
i think that would handle toxicity, resitance, and the organism (over time, depending on how much one has in tissue/organs/spine to clear)
the artemisinin keeps sweeping it out.
always monitor bloodwork and take lots of antioxidants on days off art, which is why i like the 3 day dosing schedule.
mo
Posts: 8337 | From the other shore | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
Thanx all for the information. I am going to try half a capsule as someone suggested but I need to wait till hubby is back home. As I said I am alone right now while he tries nad put our home back together from the hurricane. We lost everything, even the road and bridge to get into it.
I am in city home alone since the other house grew tons of mold from the river running right threw the house. I have been feeling better off of all abx now, so dont want a mold issue.
I am uncertain if the dizziness is babs or just my vertigo from past ear surgery but like someone said, if I have no reaction to the Artemisinin than that means its not babsesia and I will stop it.
I appreciate all your honesty and input
-------------------- Diagnosed with chronic neuro lyme 12/10 after 30 years of vertigo.2 tick bites in 3 yrs from upstate NY. Was on omincef for nine mths..zith and rifampin stopped.Remission~ All the pain and symptoms are back and I am not treating now with biaxin. Posts: 788 | From New york..queens | Registered: Nov 2010
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posted
Thanx all for the information. I am going to try half a capsule as someone suggested but I need to wait till hubby is back home. As I said I am alone right now while he tries nad put our home back together from the hurricane. We lost everything, even the road and bridge to get into it.
I am in city home alone since the other house grew tons of mold from the river running right threw the house. I have been feeling better off of all abx now, so dont want a mold issue.
I am uncertain if the dizziness is babs or just my vertigo from past ear surgery but like someone said, if I have no reaction to the Artemisinin than that means its not babsesia and I will stop it.
I appreciate all your honesty and input
-------------------- Diagnosed with chronic neuro lyme 12/10 after 30 years of vertigo.2 tick bites in 3 yrs from upstate NY. Was on omincef for nine mths..zith and rifampin stopped.Remission~ All the pain and symptoms are back and I am not treating now with biaxin. Posts: 788 | From New york..queens | Registered: Nov 2010
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posted
I don't remember it bothering me at all. I do hope you will be taking it along with a macrolide.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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annxyzz
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posted
Read tickbattler's posts or email her . She shared that grapefruit seed extract drops ( Agricept DL ) helped her get over babs , when drugs were not effective . I just bought some.
The best things I have taken are artemesia annua drops from Herb Pharm and grapefruit seed extract .
You can find many posts that attest many docs use them, and many people who say they have helped significantly . I started on the artemesia annua ( whole herb unlike artimisinin ) after reading that it helped someone here. rife is helping me also .
You can start low with dosage on both and work up to tolerance .
From my understanding , drinking grapefruit juice and taking fish oil with the art is supposed to be even more advantageous. You might confirm this, but I believe I did read that .
Saying a prayer for you in Texas....
-------------------- annxyzz Posts: 1178 | From East Texas | Registered: May 2009
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posted
lymetoo...they said just the artimisin...Dr R stopped all abx now and said to just take that for a week to see how I tolerate it and then we may try a[-babs after than
I am only on supplements now.
-------------------- Diagnosed with chronic neuro lyme 12/10 after 30 years of vertigo.2 tick bites in 3 yrs from upstate NY. Was on omincef for nine mths..zith and rifampin stopped.Remission~ All the pain and symptoms are back and I am not treating now with biaxin. Posts: 788 | From New york..queens | Registered: Nov 2010
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posted
what is A-bab?
Posts: 8337 | From the other shore | Registered: Jul 2002
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bcb1200
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posted
A-Bab is a herbal tincture for Babesia from Byron White.
I started by doing 200mg of ARtemisinin 2x / day. Then I upped it to 3x / day. I would do this 3 weeks on and 1 off.
I now follow Dr. K's protocol which is a very HIGH DOSE for 2 consecutive days each week. He says 5x100mg capsules (500mg) 3 times a day with GRAPEFRUIT JUICE. Do this for 2 consecutive days in a row for 3 weeks on, 1 off. Make sure you always do the same days.
I've just finished my first month.
-------------------- Bite date ? 2/10 symptoms began 5/10 dx'd, after 3 months numerous test and doctors
IgM Igenex +/CDC + + 23/25, 30, 31, 34, 41, 83/93
Currently on:
Currently at around 95% +/- most days. Posts: 3134 | From Massachusetts | Registered: May 2010
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wow, interesting re: doc k's dosing schedule.. i might adjust mine to that. my dosing schedule was devised by me 6 years ago and got rid of chronic babesia then. the only info out there on dosing was doctor zhang at the time.
also, holley pharma had research out on the blood concentration thing. in addition to that, there are toxicity concerns, resistance, and allot of free radical die off.
i have been reinfected and am more acute now, and since then babesia artimisinin protocols have cropped up all over.
i have been following "my" old one, but with twice the art as years ago.. because of doc sh. and doc k. recent dose recommendations, so 400mg 3x a day.
how do you feel your dosing schedule is going? perhaps a longer than three day break would be better.
do docs believe this dosing schedule deals with resistance? i believe so.
mo
Posts: 8337 | From the other shore | Registered: Jul 2002
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Bcb, So how are you? Did it work, or how many more months will you try? thx, j
-------------------- jeremy Posts: 71 | From new york city | Registered: Sep 2011
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scorpiogirl
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quote:Originally posted by bcb1200: A-Bab is a herbal tincture for Babesia from Byron White.
I started by doing 200mg of ARtemisinin 2x / day. Then I upped it to 3x / day. I would do this 3 weeks on and 1 off.
I now follow Dr. K's protocol which is a very HIGH DOSE for 2 consecutive days each week. He says 5x100mg capsules (500mg) 3 times a day with GRAPEFRUIT JUICE. Do this for 2 consecutive days in a row for 3 weeks on, 1 off. Make sure you always do the same days.
I've just finished my first month.
Holy cow! If I were to try that I would sure get liver failure!! I only did 1 pill 2x and my liver enzymes spiked up so high! Took me 3 weeks or so to get them to go back down. I was soo sick from this herb. Too scared to try again now.
-------------------- Posts: 1391 | From Lyme Land | Registered: May 2011
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