I have had Lyme for 14 years but was just diagnosed 2 months ago and have begun treatment. It's been a hellish road for me as I'm sure it has for all of you...
Anyway, my sister just found a black-legged (deer) tick embedded on my 2 year old nephew's face this morning, and she's sure it wasn't there when she put him to bed. I am weary to believe anything I've been told about LD from most doctors and other sites, so I figured this would be the right place to get a good answer. Is it at all possible that transmission could occur from having a tick embedded for at most 10 hours? I may be overreacting but I am terrified for him.
Thank you.
Posts: 15 | From Manchester, NH | Registered: Jun 2011
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posted
"Is it at all possible that transmission could occur from having a tick embedded for at most 10 hours?"
ABSOLUTELY!!!!
Like, who puts a timer on the tick??? I know of someone who is certain she was infected within three hours of the bite. And I believe I've heard even shorter time periods.
His pedi will likely do nothing unless she raises a fit.
Tell her to be SURE to get photos if a rash appears. And... early testing will show negative.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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17hens
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 23747
posted
My good friend got it from a wood tick that had been on her 10 minutes max.
My neighbor got it from a deer tick on her no more than 20 minutes.
Both had bull's eyes in exact same spot they flicked the ticks off (notice they didn't have to pull as the ticks were not imbedded yet) and symptoms a few days later.
-------------------- "My flesh and my heart may fail, but God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever." Psalms 73:26
bit 4/09, diagnosed 1/10 Posts: 3043 | From PA | Registered: Dec 2009
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James1979
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posted
I got mine illness in less than 8-10 hours.
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Sammi
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posted
The tick that bit me was attached for three hours at the most, and it transmitted five diseases. I believe attachment time is irrelevant.
Posts: 4681 | Registered: Oct 2000
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I'm so glad that this site exists. It's frightening that this is the first hit I got on a google search:
"Even if a tick is attached, it must have taken a blood meal to transmit Lyme disease. At least 36 to 48 hours of feeding is required for a tick to have fed and then transmit the bacterium that causes Lyme disease."
Posts: 15 | From Manchester, NH | Registered: Jun 2011
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-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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t9im
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posted
This is part of the controversy.
All I know was it was less than 24 hrs for my daugher and the tick was not engorged when we removed it. Maybe we didn't remove it properly and while she never developed the EM rash the flu like symptoms developed in about 3 weeks.
The IDSA indicates 36 plus hours and then references 4 rodent studies (2 mice, 1 rabit, 1 hampsters).
If you read the studies:
In the lead mice study by Piesman 1 in 14 developed Lyme with ticks on for 24 hours (7% chance), 5 in 14 at 48 and 13 of 14 at 72 or when the tick dropped off when done with feeding.
The 2nd mice study had 0 of 8 at 24 hours (I forget the rest.
The rabbit and gerbel all had infections under 24 hours.
Dr. Jones discusses a case where the child became infected in less than 1 hour.
Here is a spirochete study where the LB does take time to penetrate the tick midgut wall.
-------------------- Tim Posts: 1111 | From Glastonbury, CT | Registered: Apr 2010
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t9im
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posted
One thing though the quicker you remove the tick the better your odds.
Not all ticks have Lyme but Dr. Sapi's work in CT indicates the ticks down here 82% of the time have something (Lyme, Bart, Babs, Erlichosis, etc.) Some of these can pass quicker than others from the tick.
There is a LLMD in NH who treats children.
-------------------- Tim Posts: 1111 | From Glastonbury, CT | Registered: Apr 2010
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posted
The issue is whether there's spirochetes in the tick's saliva. Judging by the stories here, YES!!!
I hope your sister is either aware of an LLMD or you're getting Lyme-literate doctor referrals for the child. Preventive treatment will save a life of misery.
Posts: 13116 | From San Francisco | Registered: May 2006
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Sammi
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posted
emiller, I think it would be a good idea for your nephew to be evaluated by a knowledgeable doctor as a precaution.
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Both had bull's eyes in exact same spot they flicked the ticks off (notice they didn't have to pull as the ticks were not imbedded yet) and symptoms a few days later.
That's interesting - I thought they had to bite in order to transmit. So what's going on? Did a non-embedded tick bite or not?
Posts: 13116 | From San Francisco | Registered: May 2006
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17hens
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posted
I was surprised when I heard it too. They must have been biting, just not with their heads buried into the skin yet, I suppose.
-------------------- "My flesh and my heart may fail, but God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever." Psalms 73:26
bit 4/09, diagnosed 1/10 Posts: 3043 | From PA | Registered: Dec 2009
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posted
Thanks again for all the posts. I really appreciate the input. I have sent her the link for this thread, and started a new one asking for names of LLMD's in her area. She is going to bring him to his pediatrician whom she trusts and has warned her many times about the dangers of Lyme in their area. It sounds as though he is trustworthy, but I am still worried. I will send her info on LLMD's as I get responses (already got one) and told her if she has any questions or concerns or if any unusual symptoms emerge to post here or talk to me.
Posts: 15 | From Manchester, NH | Registered: Jun 2011
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posted
Would the pediatrician be willing to consult with a Lyme-treating doctor who treats kids? Now is the window of time for adequate treatment to occur.
Posts: 13116 | From San Francisco | Registered: May 2006
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nonna05
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posted
Oh, for GOD"S sake . Get him treated ASAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
A few days on Doxy now, instead of even the most remote chance of him having to go through any of this H--L....I pray your sister just does it ... It could have a huge affect for the rest of his life. Please God move on this woman's heart NOW. Maybe with kids they use Amox or Ampic. But either way, we are talking HUGE consequences Nonna
Posts: 2563 | From Denver,CO | Registered: Aug 2011
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Razzle
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posted
IMHO, waiting for symptoms to appear is basically asking to get chronic Lyme...
-------------------- -Razzle Lyme IgM IGeneX Pos. 18+++, 23-25+, 30++, 31+, 34++, 39 IND, 83-93 IND; IgG IGeneX Neg. 30+, 39 IND; Mayo/CDC Pos. IgM 23+, 39+; IgG Mayo/CDC Neg. band 41+; Bart. (clinical dx; Fry Labs neg. for all coinfections), sx >30 yrs. Posts: 4166 | From WA | Registered: Feb 2011
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posted
Be PROACTIVE NOT REACTIVE. My wasnt embedded or at least didnt appear so. Couldnt have been on me for more then 7-8 hours maybe less.
-------------------- 3 months Doxy 8 months of Tetra 7 months of Biaxin/Plaq. 4 months Doxy/Biaxin/Plaq. 5 months Biaxin/Plaq. Back on Doxy/Biax/Plaq On the road to recovery. Trying to make people Lyme Aware....... Posts: 289 | From R.I. | Registered: Jun 2009
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posted
I'm really pushing. She called her doctor's office and the nurse said if no rash and no flu-like symptoms then don't worry about it, so she wasn't going to do anything. This is exactly what my doc told me 14 years ago. I never got a rash or flu but now have chronic lyme. Since I've continued to push she said she'll take him to his pediatrician to get his opinion. I know already that he won't treat. I sent her the name and # of the LLMD I was recommended. She responded "you know he's on trial for treating children, right?" I responded that he's on trial for going against an F'ed up protocol. I really don't know what to do. She's getting mad at me for pushing; I can't force her to take him but don't think she really understands. She thinks there are dangers to treating unnecessarily, and won't hear otherwise. The dangers to not treating are pretty serious!!! I'm not going to let off her, but it also feels like overstepping boundaries. ARGHHHH!!!
Posts: 15 | From Manchester, NH | Registered: Jun 2011
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posted
My mother spoke with my sister and apparently she is more tactful. She agreed to ask her doc for antibiotics even though he is still not showing any symptoms. I'm so glad she has decided to do this. She's an amazing mom, and I know she wants whats best... it's frustrating that there is so much disinformation out there.
Posts: 15 | From Manchester, NH | Registered: Jun 2011
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posted
Can you get her to watch Under Our Skin at www.hulu.com? It's free there. It will show her the Dr J situ too.
Posts: 13116 | From San Francisco | Registered: May 2006
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Catgirl
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posted
Has anyone asked the tick?
Let's face it, all of us have lyme because of clueless doctors.
I've found that no matter how calm, or collected I am when talking to people about lyme, they generally don't listen to me because they don't have it and think I'm obsessing about it. It's that way with anything--most people can't relate, because they don't have it. However, chronic lyme is not just serious, it's unfathomable, and 99% of docs know nothing about it.
Send your sister this link at the top of the page (left hand side, under UBBFriend email this page to someone). She'll thank you for it.
-------------------- --Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together). Posts: 5418 | From earth | Registered: Mar 2011
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I think we need to match their thinking - ie, meet them where they're coming from, as in, do we first need to impress that this infection is REALLY different, that the closest related one is syphilis and this one is much more complex.
And use sound bites (better a sound bite than a tick bite?) - simple phrases to explain what's going on: spiral-shaped bacteria that get into the brain within 12 hours and start inflaming the nerves, that it's a nerve-inflammational illness causing all kinds of nerve-related symptoms,
that it can corkscrew into tissues anywhere and cause inflammation. I think we need to paint a simple picture of what's going on, if they're willing to listen.
I mention stats, as in a certain percentage of ticks, for instance, are infected in each area. So it's a matter of whether the tick is infected or not, but all it takes is one.
And that protection is key, and to learn about that before it happens to them and their pets. Sometimes I get tougher on folks, saying if you don't listen now, you could end up learning the hard way, and some people die from these illnesses. Then I mention a few helpful websites.
Posts: 13116 | From San Francisco | Registered: May 2006
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nefferdun
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posted
The wood tick was on me maybe 20 hours. I don't know how long it was crawling around before it actually bite me. I had three EM rashes indicating a lot of bacteria was transmitted. I was very sick.
It is horrible people are mislead the way they are because this disease is taking over.
-------------------- old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot Posts: 4676 | From western Montana | Registered: Apr 2009
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Nonna
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