Kudzuslipper
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 31915
posted
I just saw my IGENEX test results from my PCP... will be following up in a week or so with LLMD once the cd-57 and "my lyme immune id" is back (might as well have all the info before I see llmd)
but in the mean time...what do all you wonderful Lyme Netters think? and why do you think it?
IGENEX is calling it NEGATIVE, But here are the bands...
IGG **39 kDa IND (major protein of bb flagellin) **41 kDa +++ (flagellin all spirochetes) 58 lDa + (unknown, may be heatshock protein_ all the rest are -
IGM **39 kDa (major protein of bb flagellin) **41 kDa + (flagellin all spirochetes) **83 kDa IND (specific antigen for the lyme -93 bacterium, prob, cytoplasmic membrane) all the rest are -
I was on ABX when I tested...does that make a difference?
Can you also explain to me the difference (again--sorry) between IGG and IGM? I can never remember which is active and which is old? and if it is old, does that mean it is gone? or could it mean an old yet never eradicated infection?
just an update... since going back to doxy and zythro I seem to be doing better... much more energy and mental clarity. and the pain is not as debilitating.
less seems to be more for me. I also have stopped any supplements except what I was taking before dx. I really think I had an allergic reaction to them that was causing more inflammation...but who knows there is so much going on now...that it is hard to really say.
but good days are good!
Thanks everyone.
Posts: 1728 | From USA | Registered: May 2011
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IgG with most infections is "old" as you say, but someone can be IgG positive and still have active infection. I was IgG positive with 8 bands. Negative IgM, but my infection was quite active.
It would be helpful had some of those IND's been positive, but remember, an LLMD will diagnose clinically using the WB as support for the diagnosis. Diagnosis is based on symptoms, the WB helps prove exposure.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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39: Unknown what this antigen is, but based on research at the National Institute of Health (NIH), other Borrelia (such as Borrelia recurrentis that causes relapsing fever), do not even have the genetics to code for the 39 kDa antigen, much less produce it. It is the most specific antibody for borreliosis of all.
41: Flagella or tail. This is how Borrelia burgdorferi moves around, by moving the flagella. Many bacteria have flagella. This is the most common borreliosis antibody.
45: Heat shock protein. This helps the bacteria survive fever. The only bacteria in the world that does not have heat shock proteins is Treponema pallidum, the cause of syphilis.
58: Heat shock protein.
66: Heat shock protein. This is the second most common borrelia antibody.
73: Heat shock protein.
83: This is the DNA or genetic material of Borrelia burgdorferi. It is the same thing as the 93, based upon the medical literature. But laboratories vary in assigning significance to the 83 versus the 93.
93: The DNA or genetic material of Borrelia burgdorferi.
In my clinical experience, if a patient has symptoms suspicious for borreliosis, and has one or more of the following bands, there is a very high probability the patient has borreliosis.
These bands are 18, 22, 23-25, 28, 30, 31, 34, 37, 39, 41, 83, and 93.
[---- from DR C's update from 2005 --- ----The significant antibodies, in my opinion, are the 18, 23-25, 28, 30, 31, 34, 39, 58, 66 and 93.----]
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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Regarding the IgG and IgM (from Dr C's link above)
"With most infections, your immune system first forms IgM antibodies, then in about 2 to 4 weeks, you see IgG antibodies. In some infections, IgG antibodies may be detectable for years.
Because Borrelia burgdorferi is a chronic persistent infection that may last for decades, you would think patients with chronic symptoms would have positive IgG Western blots.
But actually, more IgM blots are positive in chronic borreliosis than IgG. Every time Borrelia burgdorferi reproduces itself, it may stimulate the immune system to form new IgM antibodies.
Some patients have both IgG and IgM blots positive. But if either the IgG or IgM blot is positive, overall it is a positive result.
Response to antibiotics is the same if either is positive, or both. Some antibodies against the borrelia are given more significance if they are IgG versus IgM, or vice versa.
Since this is a chronic persistent infection, this does not make a lot of sense to me. A newly formed Borrelia burgdorferi should have the same antigen parts as the previous bacteria that produced it.
But anyway, from my clinical experience, these borrelia associated bands usually predict a clinical change in symptoms with antibiotics, regardless of whether they are IgG or IgM."
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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posted
though it really doesn't matter, my nurse practitioner sister says she remembers it this way: that IGG the G means gone. so it's past and the IGM the M means miserable, so it's current.
Posts: 236 | From Zionsville IN | Registered: Jan 2011
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quote:39: Unknown what this antigen is, but based on research at the National Institute of Health (NIH), other Borrelia (such as Borrelia recurrentis that causes relapsing fever), do not even have the genetics to code for the 39 kDa antigen, much less produce it. It is the most specific antibody for borreliosis of all.
/organism="Borrelia recurrentis A1" /strain="A1" /db_xref="taxon:412418" Protein 1..339 /product="basic membrane protein A"
There are 339 Amino acids, and MW is 37716.77 Daltons, or 37.72 KiloDaltons
And here is B31's: There are 339 Amino acids, and MW is 36960.79 Daltons, or 36.96 KiloDaltons
And it turns out that there other organisms that code for "p39"!
Three examples: Clostridium hathewayibasic membrane protein A, immunodominant antigen P39 {Human infection caused by Clostridium hathewayi.} {Clostridium hathewayi sp. nov., from human faeces.}
Olsenella ulinucleoside-binding protein {The microbiota of acute apical abscesses.}
Atopobium parvulum basic membrane lipoprotein {New bacterial species associated with chronic periodontitis.}
Posts: 426 | From Berkeley, CA | Registered: Feb 2009
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Kudzuslipper
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 31915
posted
Thank you all. You are all awesome.
Posts: 1728 | From USA | Registered: May 2011
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