posted
Just wanted to tell everyone about our recent "pop-in" visit to this place!
We were on our way home to Texas from my daughter's LLMD in Missouri. Just so happened that we had to drive through Wichita, and I have been researching this clinic. We called and asked if we could just stop by, look around and get a little information. The receptionist was extremely friendly, gave us directions and said they would wait for us to get there.
When we arrived, she showed us around and began answering our questions--then told us that the doctors would be able to better answer our questions. We were ushered into a room and got to sit and visit with BOTH of the center's doctors. They sat and visited with us, answered questions and discussed their treatment philosophies for at least 45 minutes. We were just pleasantly surprised and delighted that they would welcome us so warmly and spend so much time with us--having arrived without an appointment and very little advance warning.
We loved their treatment philosophy and it just made sense. . . We are hoping to get to take our daughter here soon, but praying and researching just a bit more. I have a good feeling about this place. . . and just wanted to share!!
(By the way, we did NOT receive any treatments--so our impressions are just that--only impressions, vibes, good feelings--nothing more!!)
Maybe soon, we will have a success story and/or positive experience to share!!
Posts: 63 | From north Texas | Registered: Apr 2011
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nonna05
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 33557
posted
Great Question's...expense, type of treatments. Like a mix , do you stay on premises, stuff like thay. Thanks
Posts: 2563 | From Denver,CO | Registered: Aug 2011
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seekhelp
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 15067
posted
One couple here seemed to do OK there. Others not as much. Good luck.
Posts: 7545 | From The 5th Dimension - The Twilight Zone | Registered: Mar 2008
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quote:Originally posted by fourwinds: lots of it makes sense, especially if you have already been on ABX and have reached a point of diminishing returns.
- yes, after you have given abx a run for its money
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96239 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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I think this is the link to the previous thread detailing one member's 2 week stay there. (I think I did that correctly--LOL!!)
A lot of Hansa's treatments make sense. . . But some of it seems pretty "out there!"
My thoughts are--why not do it BEFORE the antibiotics--basically, I think it is a LOT of detox, as well as using the body to heal itself. Dr. J said something that stuck with me--that what they do is make the body into it's OWN Rife machine. In other words, help the body to operate at a frequency that is inhospitable to the Lyme bacteria and co-infections. That sounded logical to me--if it is possible!!
And. . . you can always go back to antibiotics--but maybe better to see what the body can do before possibly damaging it with long term antibiotics. . . Esp since I am dealing with a 17 yo!!
We have everything to gain, and if it does not work, it only costs 2 weeks of our lives and another wad of money! (LOL!!)
I KNOW this is not for everybody, and I am just kinda "thinking out loud." Most of you are so much more experienced with dealing with Lyme than I am, and I am only dealing with it through my child. But, here is something else interesting. . . I DID test positive for Lyme, but have no symptoms. So, why is it that I am positive and healthy and she is positive and very sick. I think that my body can keep the bacteria in check and hers cannot. So maybe by getting her body to a state where she can fend off the bacteria herself--she will be healthy EVEN IF not every critter gets killed (which, is impossible anyway, isn't it???!)
Thanks for all of your comments--I am learning so much from all of you! God bless you!
posted
Good Luck! Definitely let us know how it goes if you decide to give it a go :-)
-------------------- Sick since 10/2001. Tested CDC positive for Lyme 10/2008 through Quest and Igenex. Started treatment 1/2009 with LLMD. Lyme, Erichilosis, Chlamydophila Pneumoniae, Q Fever, Strep Syndrome and probably a few others I am forgetting. Posts: 451 | From Virginia | Registered: Feb 2009
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posted
What you need to understand is that although Dr J's formulas specifically say they are not to be used to cure a disease etc etc -- forget exact labeling -- that is marketing hype and just to comply with the FDA etc.
Borrelogen does have killing herbs in it.
And people do herx -- sometimes severely on these formulas. I am sure you have read many recent threads touting the Byron White and other herbal tincture lines.
I did make some comments on Gary's thread regarding hubby's adverse reactions to Borrelogen -- especially in combo with high dose Wobenzyme. At that time hubby had had no antibiotics. He ended up with one psych admit for a suicide attempt and 4 or 5 ER visits and another hospitalization where he was unconscious for 15 hours one day -- had elevated protein in his spinal fluid. He also started having what looked like tonic clonic seizures during this treatment phase.
There is at least one other patient who had an even more severe reaction than hubby. They posted regarding their suicide attempt a year or so ago under general support rather than in the medical forum. Will try to find that thread. The other person had had either very little treatment or no treatment prior to trying the Borrelogen just like hubby.
My personal opinion is that boosting the immune system is important and so is detox -- but first the pathogen load must be lowered. Or both must be done at the same time. Just boosting or modulating the immune system very rarely cures anyone. The same goes for detox.
Some lucky people only need killing antibiotics or herbs and don't have to worry about all the supplements and other issues. A lot depends on how long you have been sick and also on just how many pathogens you have.
Unfortunately it is very difficult to predict how anyone will react to any particular herb or antibiotic.
I don't think even the LLMD's with experience can say who will herx severely and who won't.
But if you have neuro symptoms or psych symptoms it is very important to have an MD on board who can address those issues. As a chiropractor Dr J cannot prescribe any meds and if you have any adverse reactions you will be on your own -- unless there is an MD or someone licensed to prescribe medications.
Hubby had already done most of the treatments that Dr J utilizes with other docs prior to the 4 - 6 weeks we spent there. And none of those things did much of anything for him without killing herbs or antibiotics. But as I said -- everyone is different.
I just wanted to make sure you are aware of the potential problems with this or any other treatment.
This is not medical advice, just my opinion based on hubby's experiences.
Bea Seibert
Posts: 7306 | From Martinsville,VA,USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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THANK YOU for your very wise knowledgable comments. You have given much "food for thought." I need to hear these comments.
We will continue to explore, consider, and think out treatment options. . . And you have given much to think about. If you can find that other thread, would appreciate it--and I will look in the meantime. It's just so hard to know what is best when it is not MY body, but my child's. . .
Again, thanks. . . .
Posts: 63 | From north Texas | Registered: Apr 2011
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And. . . you can always go back to antibiotics--but maybe better to see what the body can do before possibly damaging it with long term antibiotics. . . Esp since I am dealing with a 17 yo!!
We have everything to gain, and if it does not work, it only costs 2 weeks of our lives and another wad of money! (LOL!!)
- However... you have a short window of opportunity to knock out the spirochetes. Of course, this depends upon how long your daughter has been ill.
Two weeks is not much time in the whole scheme of things. (which is good)
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96239 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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They think she has had it since at least kindergarten--11 years, and possibly congenitally. . . (Since I am positive too).
I worked in the entomology lab (tick lab) at Oklahoma State Univ and also had a dog who died of ehrlichiosis. Who knows when I might have picked it up, but no symptoms other than occasional brain fog (need to get my metal amalgams out).
So, I am thinking 2 weeks is not long. We will continue abx until then--if we do decide to go!
I cannot find any negatives other than what Bea has posted. Any ideas of where else to search? I really want to do my homework on this place!!
Posts: 63 | From north Texas | Registered: Apr 2011
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The person above has a link to their blog on that post. A recent entry there refers to their current LLMD who is one of those who uses very high dose multiple IV med combos. So in this case it looks like they were a little like hubby -- initially had very severe herx reactions to herbs and then started with low and slow doses of antibiotics and eventually got to the point where they could tolerate multiple high dose meds.
Hubby has continued using both herbs and medications in his treatments even after his early bad reactions to herbs. We have just learned to start everything low and slow regardless of what the current doc says or thinks -- most meds and even herbs we start at 1/4 or maybe 1/2 of the suggested therapeutic dose.
When hubby went to the clinic 10 years ago the doc had only written one slim paperback book. He has since written at least 2 editions of a newer hardback version -- but the basic principles of his treatments have not really changed that much. And he is still marketing the same herbal formulas which I personally think are somewhat overpriced. And the doc is now in a new office.
From what I have read on this and other forums most patients initially do have some improvements from the treatments at the clinic. But I honestly have never read that anyone thought they were cured or put into remission by the clinic.
It pretty much comes down to a matter of cost since many of the treatments will not be covered by insurance. There are other docs closer to home who offer lymphatic massage and ion cleanse footbaths for instance. But it is much harder to find docs who do thermography although they do exist.
But the big selling point for the doc is his version of ART -- no he doesn't call it that, but the principles are very similar. If you believe in energy medicine then you might be a good fit for this doc.
But personally I always have a hard time believing someone who tells me that hubby is allergic to all of his supplements and then he gets worse if he skips them for more than a couple of days. Especially when he has had bloodwork that indicates his need for many of the supplements he takes.
Hope things start improving soon for your daughter whatever treatment route you decide on.
Bea Seibert
Posts: 7306 | From Martinsville,VA,USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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Just went back and read some of your other posts. Looks like your daughter is following in hubby's footsteps. Hubby's 3rd LLMD was the same one your daughter was/is seeing in Missouri.
For hubby the monotherapy approach did not work. Also unfortunately at the time neither the doc nor none of the neurologists hubby saw could tell us which infection was causing which symptom. So we ended up wasting a lot of time (several years) treating one infection at a time and never really making much progress with any of them. At that time hubby thought he only had lyme, babesia and bartonella.
I know you said your daughter has ehrlichia as well as lyme. Unfortunately the amoxy will not treat that infection. 10 years into his illness hubby just got a positive test for HGA (human granulocytic anaplasma). He had even taken oral doxy for 2 or 3 months years ago but he was either reinfected or did not respond to that med at that time.
This time around within 2 weeks of starting the doxy his daily fevers which had been a problem for 7 months went away and his WBC has been improving. Actually it had been never been a problem until the fevers started back in the spring. But this time he is also taking levaquin and maybe the combo of the doxy and levaquin is working on the ehrlichia/anaplasma.
For hubby diflucan seems to work to some extent on babesia when it is combined with other babesia meds. So that is another possible reason for an adverse reaction to diflucan.
What has seemed to work best for hubby was treating all of the 3 major infections at the same time. One of his LLMD's had him on a 5 drug combo -- it took us 8 months to get to therapeutic doses on all 5 meds. Then hubby crashed a month later and ended up in the ER and hospital. But since that time he can tolerate the high dose med combos. And has taken much higher doses than the original doc would prescribe.
It is too the point now that if hubby seems to be relapsing or getting worse we know it is time to either add another med or herb or increase the dose. Hubby is not out of the woods yet, but is finally making some real progress. People who have multiple infections do need massive amounts of drugs or herbs simply because the bugs can hide so well and especially with lyme multiply so slowly.
This is not medical advice, just my opinions based on hubby's experiences.
Bea Seibert
Posts: 7306 | From Martinsville,VA,USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
Thanks Bea, for sharing your experience, thoughts and wisdom. If I had had such a negative experience, I would want to let others know as well. So I appreciate that. Thank you also for sharing what is working for your husband. What he has gone through sounds like a nightmare!! I feel for you too, wow, it is so hard to be a caretaker. Sometimes I identify with my daughter so much that I feel like I have Lyme symptoms right along with her!! (Does that sound crazy??!! I hear myself saying "we" instead of "her"--sometimes she reminds me "MOM, it's ME, not YOU!!")
Thanks Razzle for your input as well. I have read on other forums extensively--and it seems that there are more positive experiences than negative coming out of Hansa.
I am grateful for all of the sharing of experiences on these forums. How nice to have knowledgable people to bounce ideas/thoughts off of, and to be able to hear differing viewpoints. I am learning that with Lyme, there are many different paths to healing and so so many factors to consider.
All that being said, we are LEANING toward going there. If it ends up being a mistake, I think all we will lose is money. We have done antibiotics for almost 8 months now, and can always go back to that route. I am hoping that being young, she has less disease process than an older person. . .
If we go, I will let you all know how it turns out!!
Posts: 63 | From north Texas | Registered: Apr 2011
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Question's...expense, type of treatments. Like a mix , do you stay on premises, stuff like thay. Thanks
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