quote: Many infections, even those caused by antibiotic-sensitive bacteria, resist treatment. This paradox has vexed physicians for decades, and makes some infections impossible to cure.
A key cause of this resistance is that bacteria become starved for nutrients during infection. Starved bacteria resist killing by nearly every type of antibiotic, even ones they have never been exposed to before.
What produces starvation-induced antibiotic resistance, and how can it be overcome? In a paper appearing this week in Science, researchers report some surprising answers.
"Bacteria become starved when they exhaust nutrient supplies in the body, or if they live clustered together in groups know (sic) as biofilms," said the lead author of the paper, Dr. Dao Nguyen, an assistant professor of medicine at McGill University.
Posts: 426 | From Berkeley, CA | Registered: Feb 2009
| IP: Logged |
Razzle
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 30398
posted
Aha! Now I feel vindicated for enjoying a nibble of sugar-sweetened chocolate now and then...
Seriously, thanks for posting this - very interesting concept. And it supports the use of magnesium, calcium and other supplements despite these nutrients "feeding" the infections.
Perhaps though, this issue needs to be decided on an individual level between the patient and their health care practitioner for best results, as there are many who experience significant worsening of symptoms with certain supplements.
-------------------- -Razzle Lyme IgM IGeneX Pos. 18+++, 23-25+, 30++, 31+, 34++, 39 IND, 83-93 IND; IgG IGeneX Neg. 30+, 39 IND; Mayo/CDC Pos. IgM 23+, 39+; IgG Mayo/CDC Neg. band 41+; Bart. (clinical dx; Fry Labs neg. for all coinfections), sx >30 yrs. Posts: 4166 | From WA | Registered: Feb 2011
| IP: Logged |
BoxerMom
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 25251
quote:Originally posted by seibertneurolyme: Well this kind of refutes the arguements against supplementing with magnesium and the B vitamins.
But then again the info on what biofilms are actually composed of is rather sparse.
Bea Seibert
Starving the beast never made any sense to me.
I don't believe a Bb biofilm has ever been proven in vivo. Could be wrong, of course.
Wikipedia Lyme entry
quote: Pathophysiology The spirochetes may avoid the immune response by ... hiding in the extracellular matrix, which may interfere with the function of immune factors.
I suspect the extracellular matrix is a low nutrient location. Could be wrong, of course.
Posts: 426 | From Berkeley, CA | Registered: Feb 2009
| IP: Logged |
CD57
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11749
posted
what are these biofilms then on my Fry slide? are they real? what are they made of?
Posts: 3528 | From US | Registered: Apr 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by CD57: what are these biofilms then on my Fry slide? are they real? what are they made of?
quote: In vivo: In the living organism , as opposed to in vitro (in the laboratory).
A drug may work in vitro and not work in vivo. And so until I read an article in the peer-reviewed literature confirming Bb biofilms in a mammal I remain neutral on the subject.
Based on a quick search of the literature, it seems Bb does produce "the universal quorum-sensing signal, autoinducer-2 (AI-2)."
Quorum sensing is used in biofilm formation.
Don't have the interest to investigate further.
Posts: 426 | From Berkeley, CA | Registered: Feb 2009
| IP: Logged |
In my opinion what Dr F is seeing (if they are real) are biofilms formed by babesia or maybe bartonella or BLO or any other bacteria which may be present. He has said many times that he has only ever seen spiroketes a couple of times in all of the blood samples he/his lab have examined.
Hubby has not done the biofilm testing -- don't have an extra $500 or so to do that so do not know whether he has biofilms or not.
I also have wondered sometimes if what the doc is calling biofilms is actually fibrin or fibrinogen as it is my understanding that he spins down his samples as part of the testing methodology.
Since hubby takes high dose lumbrokinase plus wobenzyme I am even less inclined to spend the money for biofilm testing.
This is just my opinion.
Bea Seibert
Posts: 7306 | From Martinsville,VA,USA | Registered: Oct 2004
| IP: Logged |
nonna05
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 33557
posted
what exactly does wobenzyme do for or against you?
It seems like your told to star with certain ABX's, Minerals, Supplements, drops etc..
Then the ABX changes ,they maybe add a drop/pill/or vit. Not telling you to stop other things.
Such a Mepron, told to switch to it, some samento, art and a couple supp.
Nobody ever said anything about yes/no antioxidants. And with all this going on, and sleep and eating all off balance...Shouldn't a good multi/vit be in here some where?
Can hardly move through house, beside going out, for IV C/shot B and whatever.
Then not taking showers often enough, cause the change in feeling/temp and srength.
The WHOLE THING SEEMS SO INSANE.
I do not want to end up like my brother who died just a few months ago at 52. He had next to no medical care the last 2 years .. Was not diagnosed , but complained of a lot of the same things. Even the showers, tingling,sleep stuff. mind. He lost everything and then Him.
There has to be more....
Posts: 2563 | From Denver,CO | Registered: Aug 2011
| IP: Logged |
posted
That is a great article. I think that it is smart idea to feed the bacteria. If it is stressed it would hide and stay in cyst. It you feed it causing a feeding frenzy it would be easier to kill than if it is in cyst form.
posted
A PubMed search for Borrelia biofilm returned 4 articles. One by Stricker and 1 by Sapi.
A search for "spirochete biofilm" returned 56 articles. Periodontal and Treponema are quite common words in the article titles.
Would I be surprised if Bb was found to produce biofilms? No. But only when they have been found in the body of a mammal, by multiple researchers, will I accept that they exist.
Posts: 426 | From Berkeley, CA | Registered: Feb 2009
| IP: Logged |
nonna05
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 33557
posted
still what is or does wobenzyme do ..Does it help this issue
Been told from a more holistic/rife type helper through a video he had,,,Long- gevity living conference SP?? sorry
That Fulvic acid /not folic acid ,strips away the protective film that this bacteria develops to protect itself , so that the ABX has a better chance at hitting it. Anybody??
Posts: 2563 | From Denver,CO | Registered: Aug 2011
| IP: Logged |
The Lyme Disease Network is a non-profit organization funded by individual donations. If you would like to support the Network and the LymeNet system of Web services, please send your donations to:
The
Lyme Disease Network of New Jersey 907 Pebble Creek Court,
Pennington,
NJ08534USA http://www.lymenet.org/
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic