Topic: Andrographis: Good for Arthritis and Inflammation
annxyzz
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 20404
posted
Just found an article at memorial Sloan Kettering on andrographis , which indicates studies show it helps with arthritis and inflammation. I do not know how to share this with a link , but for those in pain like lymetutu, it might be a good read .
-------------------- annxyzz Posts: 1178 | From East Texas | Registered: May 2009
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Keebler
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posted
- I've been out of this for many months now and I'm beside myself with such intense pain.
I do recall having far less pain when I was taking this.
The source I'd used for so long went out of stock months ago (Planetary Formulas).
That was the most affordable one for me (at a high dose) . . . never did all the homework to find another good source though I was close with a bulk concentrate but they seemed to be out of stock a lot, too.
Anyway, I had to spend all my health money on Sea Buckthorn oil to help mouth ulcers - and with that now under control, I'm setting my sights back on Andrographis.
Finally, decided on a tincture by Herb Pharm. It just arrived 30 minutes ago and I took my first dose in months. Ahhhh. It's very relaxing.
This is my absolutely favorite herb. It's helped me so much (but, as it's generally the ONLY supplement I can afford, I've not been able to really incorporate it into a full protocol).
Still, after doing much study and trial and error when I had to pick JUST ONE, this was it.
It is not at all a cure-all but it just helped in many ways, mostly to dampen down that startle switch from a sound or light trigger to when a seizure would typically take off. Andrographis clearly helped for me.
Make no mistake, though, this can pack a punch and will promote a herx. It's also not meant for me if I am too far from a bathroom as it promotes urination (and that puts it mildly).
It also causes more tiredness (it is sedative in nature), but I understand why and accept that for now.
I have a bunch of links in my file. I'll come back later with those.
In the meantime, PubMed has many abstracts.
Also - this is not for everyone. For the very things it helps me with, it has caused problems for others (just sort of in reverse of my experience). Definitely not for everyone.
To be clear, for myself it seems to help prevent seizures, very well. For at least one other poster here, (if I recall correctly) it seemed to have caused seizures.
So, best to start with a very low dose, slowly -- to see if this first resonates, and then, if so, best when part of an overall individualized plan.
Read about interactions with Rx, if applicable. -
[ 01-27-2012, 06:05 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
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posted
- Recommended by master herbalist, Stephen Buhner in his book "Healing Lyme" - although he has come to prefer other things now at the top of the list.
The most comprehensive article I've seen. But, it has disappeared at various times from the web. Be sure to copy and past to your personal research file to ensure access to the details here.
Note, with third-party research, there are 47 citations. They really did their homework.
Andrographis -
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Keebler
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posted
- annxyzz,
The only way I know to share links:
Take your CURSOR and HIGHLIGHT the URL bar -- that's the web address bar at the top of the desired article or web page. It usually starts with the http:// -- or even just with the www. that will work for here.
Then, do whatever your computer requires to COPY it. Then PASTE it down in a word document or on a board post like here.
Wish I could actually describe how to COPY & PASTE but it's beyond me how to explain that. If that's the help you need, be sure to say so and others can take over there.
It's also a bit different on PC than on a Apple computer. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
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posted
- For pain relief, CORYDALIS is a fabulous herb. That is detailed here: -----------
Topic: Looking for long term pain management -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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lpkayak
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Member # 5230
posted
keeb is andrographis the one buhner says NOT to take if you have chronic lyme?
i ve been wondering about it
arthrits and inflam are by far my worst problems
-------------------- Lyme? Its complicated. Educate yourself. Posts: 13712 | From new england | Registered: Feb 2004
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Keebler
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posted
lpkayak,
Q: is andrographis the one buhner says NOT to take if you have chronic lyme?
No, not at all. That would be astragalus as it can be far too stimulating to the immune system (therefore, best in early, acute infection rather in later, chronic. You can read more about this in Buhner's book "Healing Lyme").
(However, if just a small part of an overall formula or protocol, a little astragalus would be okay, balanced with others, as in one of Zhang's support formulas).
Still, Buhner is not quite as keen on andrographis as at the time he wrote the book.
As I mentioned, andrographis just not for everyone. But, for myself, and given that I can only afford one thing, this has been the best thing that just keeps me from getting worse.
It's not enough alone but, for me, I have a very hard time without it and it helps more than anything else I've used.
GARLIC, ALLICIN would also be a good choice for someone who could afford just one supplement. In fact, usually better as long as they can process the sulfur. But, for me, it's just a bit too stimulating (whereas Andrographis is sedating).
OLE, Olive Leaf Extract, might also be a good choice were one limited to just one thing. I have rotated with OLE at times and find that it neither over stimulates nor over sedates me. Fairly neutral in that regard.
Any of these can cause a herx, though, so the routine with anything new helps: start low and slow.
Again, it's best to have a solid multi-faceted protocol set out by a LLMD or LL ND - but what is best is just not always possible.
None of the things I've listed, alone, could be expected to lead to total success but can be important support. -
[ 01-28-2012, 01:00 AM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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annxyzz
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 20404
posted
Keebler, The Herb Pharm artemesia annua is also really good . It helped me more than anything else, along with grapefruit seed extract . Have you tried these ? They are not too expeensive .
I have plenty extra I could send you to try if you like .
-------------------- annxyzz Posts: 1178 | From East Texas | Registered: May 2009
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Keebler
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posted
- annxyzz,
Thanks so much - I really do need the reminder about artemesia. No, I've not tried those but a new month is just around the corner.
[Although andrographis does have some action against protozoa/malaria. I do recall that it's important to always have a combo approach to babesia/malaria.]
Herb Pharm is truly a class act organization (and right in my own state, too).
I do brush teeth with a GSE formula (Seed-A-Dent), though, it's not intended to be swallowed. I'll check out your suggestions.
I never was able to treat babesia properly and the artemisinin is just too expensive (though I did do two 40 day cycles of the full protocol, which at the time was what was advised but it's advised for much longer now.)
While I am not fond of taking a lot of alcohol extracts, I think they may get into my body quicker -- after just starting the andrographis tincture yesterday afternoon, my comfort level is markedly improved (other than in my hands).
I also slept better than since I stopped the capsules of that months ago.
Andrographis is, by far, the best helper to a good night's sleep I've found.
It's also the best helper to lower tinnitus but, as I am just now reminded by the ringing, it takes a while being on it for that to subside and it actually increasing tinnitus a bit for the first couple weeks. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
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-- This is an excellent paper that covers many aspects, including pain relief.
I just can't post this without adding my thoughts about heat.
On Page 4. 6. a) -- I strongly disagree with the recommendations about high heat. I think too much heat can be very dangerous for many with lyme - and cannot really kill spirochetes at safe temps for the human body.
For some, even one degree more heat and it can clobber them for days. Those with lyme do best following the heat cautions for those diagnosed with "MS" whatever the cause, intolerance and damage from heat is well documented in that population.
As many with "MS" also have lyme, this makes sense, in light of my horrible experiences with heat.
LOW heat can help in many ways, though. Low infrared sauna, gentle exercise enough to increase circulation, etc. All helps but at a lower temperature that is safer.
Buhner (and his book "Healing Lyme") is also not listed here along with similar sources. But that probably has a logical reason, timing, etc. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Just an FYI..
Posts: 396 | From EAPennsylvania | Registered: Dec 2007
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annxyzz
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posted
Keebler , I read others here post that the artemisia annua ( not artimisinin) really helped them in the tincture form . I ordered from Herb Pharm , and started low and slow . I had no side effects or difficulty . I just noticed slowly I could stand on my feet longer without exhaustion and feeling like my body weighed a thousand pounds. and then I began to be able to take walks off and on. I also started rife.
I like the herb pharm artemesia annua. Truthfully I strongly prefer nature's way andrographis. Every other andro I have tried caused chest congestion and thick mucous- not Nature's Way . The planetary herbals CONCENTRATE made me have insomnia, no appetite and low spirits . I think they discontinued it and Buhner stated some people had trouble with that one.
I have unopened Herb Pharm andrographis I will not use if you couls use it .
Also , did you try cats claw ? I did not try Herb Pharm brand , but bet it is good and cheaper than others. It is a safe herb overall.
-------------------- annxyzz Posts: 1178 | From East Texas | Registered: May 2009
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annxyzz
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posted
For inflammation, fish oil, evening primrose oil, and bromelain have helped me a lot . I like the bromelain and other enzymes for pain !
-------------------- annxyzz Posts: 1178 | From East Texas | Registered: May 2009
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Keebler
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- fourwinds,
Thanks so much for posting that site. I've seen his other links but but not this one.
It is very important that people know about the potential for rash - just in case they would be that one percent.
That's also why starting at a very low dose is good, in case there might be any hint of a reaction so as to back off immediately.
For me, even at the highest therapeutic dose, not even a hint of skin reaction. I wonder if, in the near future, there might be a way to better predict who might develop a reaction.
If anyone here has, I wonder if there are some variables to connect the dots. Guess those who write about this, though, would have access to more clues. I imagine interactions could be at play, too. -
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Keebler
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posted
- annxyzz,
I appreciate your offer of the H.Pharm Androg. tincture - that is the exact thing I just had delivered here yesterday. So, I'm good on that. Got 2 bottles.
As for your reactions to the PF A. (same as the one whose praises I sing) -- wow, we had the opposite reactions regarding sleep (me); insomnia (you).
Glad to hear you like the Nature's Way Androg. as I've studied that label and wondered (the price is good) but have been hesitant since I tried some other brand (forget brand but recall the label design) that did nothing, and cost four times as much.
I also appreciate your notes on the Artemesia tincture vs. arteminisin. I had a terrible time with the artemisinin protocol, just terrible. But, I know babesia is not done with me yet, so it's good to hear what you write about that.
Herb Pharm Cat's Claw tincture -- yes, I've used that in the past and found it fabulous to calm down severe overactive nerve firing, within minutes.
However, since I think it's more supportive than actual anti-spirochetal (and I get similar reaction from the andrographis in that regard), it did not make my cut.
Cat's Claw is also much harder on the environment to cultivate and harvest, so if I can find something else that covers the same bases for me, I prefer that -- and save the cat's claw for times when that is the best choice.
Still, Buhner's study on Cat's claw makes a strong case for its inclusion when doing a full protocol is possible.
I love being able to compare notes here. It's so helpful. -
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Keebler
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posted
- annxyzz,
wonder if you've also had the experience of andrographis sharply decreasing edema (and, thereby, increasing urine flow to nearly amazing volume)?
For myself, it's a very welcome relief to help reduce puffiness. As long as I remember to adequately rehydrate. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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has a great andrographis at a good price in bulk...works very well as mentioned above...
Posts: 510 | From NEVERLAND.USA | Registered: Jul 2005
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Keebler
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posted
- 8man12,
Thanks.
I've seen that there but when I tried to order a while back, they were out of it and got side-tracked.
Always good to try again. -
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Haley
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posted
Keebler - Isn't this the herb you use for Tinnitus?
Posts: 2232 | From USA | Registered: Aug 2009
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annxyzz
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Member # 20404
posted
8man12 , how are you doing ? What herbs helped you most ? I believe you used to post about herbs helping you.
Keebler, I had no reaction with the herbs with puffiness or edema or frequent urination.
The ONLY andro I had a negative issue was the CONCENTRATE by planetary formulas . Others have posted similar responses in the past to the concentrate . I took 2-4 daily and was in a bad way ! However, I have good (!) effects with Nature's Way brand .
-------------------- annxyzz Posts: 1178 | From East Texas | Registered: May 2009
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Keebler
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posted
- annxyzz,
Thanks for the details about your experiences. Funny, and not to be crude but just no other way to say it - andrographis makes me "pee like a race horse" and really cuts down edema. So, I thought that would be everyone's response but, apparently not.
While, the literature does include "edema relief", maybe this is one of those herbs called an "adaptogen" that, to some degree, seems to address to the matters most needing attention by each person. ---
Yes, Haley. Good memory about this dampening tinnitus in my case.
As I had been off of it for a while and just restarted, I now recall that it can raise tinnitus at first but after 2 days back on it again, the tinnitus has calmed back down.
Of course, with this (as with many Rx and supplements) individual response can vary. -
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Keebler
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- Thanks, Pantera. I like that they have mushroom formulas. -
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