posted
I have severe muscle and joint pain. Is there any non narcotic pain meds that might be helpful? i tried asking for narcotics, cause they work, but most doctors around here (MASS) wont rx them for lyme. besides lyme, they basically wont rx them unless youve had a surgery or practically on your deathbed.
Posts: 723 | From boston,ma | Registered: Jan 2011
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Carol in PA
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 5338
posted
Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitors will reduce the pain. Systemic enzymes will reduce pain by reducing inflammation and increasing bloodflow and nutrients to the cells.
Fish oil will reduce inflammation and pain. Look for a pharmaceutical quality that has a high ratio of EPA.
Magnesium and antioxidants reduce inflammation and pain.
. Taking all of these will reduce the pain level, and then pain meds like tylenol are effective.
I know you don't want this info, you'd rather just have a pill that numbs the pain. There are a number of other herb things that reduce pain too, and I'll add to this post.
Posts: 6956 | From Lancaster, PA | Registered: Feb 2004
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Ditto to all of Carol's good suggestions. Also: ----------
posted
It is important that you see a Pain Management Specialist, preferably one who at least believes in the pain syndromes associated with chronic Lyme complex illnesses. Ask your LLMD for a referral. I've found that many LLMDs, despite describing their practice as "holistic" avoid the topic of pain management beyond simple over the counter meds or supplementation. However, aside from some on the fringes, most reasonable ILADS LLMDs do not object to their patients being prescribed pain medicine by another physician, in practice. Many do not wish to involve themselves in the additional level of oversight necessary to manage patients, especially on controlled substances, and some are afraid of the additional scrutiny it could bring to the practice. I understand these concerns, but feel that it would be in the best interest of both the LLMD practice and patients to start a relationship with an existing pain management practice in the area and refer to them, as they are equipped to handle the kind of red tape necessary for adequate management of moderate to severe chronic pain that has been forced upon practitioners.
While the supplements (as well as practices listed on the link - massage, acupuncture etc..) listed above are certainly excellent supportive therapies, I don't believe that patients in pain should be told those are the only options open to them. I would also look into the neuropathic pain therapies, if you feel you have a lot of nerve pain. These are like Lyrica and Neurontin, which some patients find work well for "fibromyalgia" type pain. Others find no relief (myself included), or side effects that overwhelm any benefit.
Since you mention that narcotic (I am assuming opioid) medicines work for you, I do think it is worthwhile pursuing options with a pain management specialist. These physicians (Usually, anesthesiologists with a fellowship in pain management - LOTS of schooling to end up having the DEA breathing down your neck for trying to help people. Bah..) will be able to evaluate and help construct a plan for your to manage your pain that can include controlled substances. No one should look down upon those who use them for treatment of pain for Lyme or any other illness, no more than one would of a cancer patient who was prescribed opioids to help with their pain as they went through treatment towards a cure, or palliative care if all other possibilities are exhausted.
I would speak to your LLMD and see if they can refer to a pain management specialist. If they cannot, check with any other physicians you have a long-standing rapport with, like a primary care provider to see if they can recommend a doctor or practice. Regardless, you need to bring all your legitimate documentation of your illness - lab tests, notes from appointments with LLMD and as much concrete "proof" as you can show of your condition. If you were only diagnosed clinically and don't have any abnormal/positive lab results etc... this may make things more difficult, as you'll need your LLMD to be willing to take the time to explain to the prospective pain doc about the clinical diagnosis. Regardless of your labwork, having your LLMD ready and willing to affirm to your condition is important. It will also ensure that they can put together a good plan for you and for instance, understand why you do not want cortical steroid injections etc...You will likely need to display that you've had this pain-causing condition in excess of 3 months - these pain management clinics deal with those with chronic conditions.
With responsible use for the right patients, opioid (or other) pain medication can be safe and effective. It may or may not be the best therapy for you, but its worthwhile to speak to a physician who is well versed in not only the use of them for pain management, but is steeled against the red tape that sadly is increasingly spreading across the field by those with harmful rhetoric and a distorted worldview, which makes it more difficult for legitimate patients to have access to the best possible healthcare.
Posts: 691 | From East coast, USA | Registered: Jun 2006
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sammy
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 13952
posted
Some doctors may be willing to prescribe an RX anti-inflammatory medicine (an NSAID). They usually prefer that you to try an over the counter version like ibuprofen or aleve first before they prescribe anything. It helps to get insurance to cover the RX if you've tried OTC first.
NSAIDS can cause stomach irritation and may be hard on the kidneys. But if you are really in pain you have to weigh risk vs benefit and only take it when needed.
I take OTC ibuprofen 800mg q6hrs when the pain unbearable bad. It doesn't do much, better than nothing I guess. Doctors don't really like to prescribe anything.
Posts: 5237 | From here | Registered: Nov 2007
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Rumigirl
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 15091
posted
Sammy is right, and so is Blackstone.
But before you even go to a pain management doc, some other possibilities are: Zyflamend, which is an herbal anti-inflammatory, really can help. It's available on the internet. Work up slowly to 4 or more capsules per day. It takes a few weeks to notice the difference.
High doses of fish oil help inflammation. As someone mentioned, magnesium can help a lot. Transdermal "magnesium oil" ordered on the internet is great.
Lidoderm patches can help quite a bit for neuropathic and musculoskeletal pain, up to 3 per 12 hours/day; they're an rx. They aren't cheap, but are covered by insurance.
Some pain management docs rx compounded pain gels of various pain meds. There is a doc in NY & Long Island that does this, and others elsewhere.
It's also possible to get opiods rx'ed for occasional use in addition to the above. Oh, and there is Tramadol, which is a synthetic opiod, which isn't as strong or as addictive as regular opiods.
Then, if all of that isn't enough, you may need to go to daily opiods, managed by a pain management doc. Living with chronic pain is an extreme stress. We do need to find ways to lower the pain while we go for the long-term cure. There is no black and white here, ie, only natural is ok.
This is a pain management primer in short form!
Posts: 3792 | From around | Registered: Mar 2008
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posted
The best thing that helped for me was Lyrica, but it caused me to gain weight. I am a dancer and model so I couldnt afford to gain weight as it would ruin my income. my pain is mostly muscle pain. Ive tried prescription aleve, vicodin, percocet, prescription naproxen, the lyrica, neurontin, cymbalta, antidepressants. The best things to work for me were the lyrica and percocets. I hear there is prescription opiates that have tamper resistant coatings so abusers cant snort them or abuse them in any way. they are either coming out soon or are already on the market. But i dont know if thats the only risk with opiates. I hear you can build tolerance and addiction. I asked my LLMD if I only took them 4 or 5 times a week in divided doses if I would still get addicted and she said she didnt know. I dont know, but I dont want to have to find out for myself either because Ive seen what drug addiction can do to people and its nothing I want a part of. I have a very strong will to not become addicted to anything, so I dont know if it would be less likely to happen to me. I know some people who dont take their opiates when they absolutely need to, ex) taking a percocet when you have a headache, or period cramps. I would not do this, dont know if im in the minority or majority of people who would behave like this when rxed an opiate.
Posts: 723 | From boston,ma | Registered: Jan 2011
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lightfoot
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 2536
posted
I would not discount the effectiveness of systemic enzymes. It seems impossible that something so simple can be so effective. The one I can vouch for is Wobenzym. I began my trial in mid-November with amazing results!!!!
I had been on OTC and Rx NSAIDS at high doses for a number of years. Stomach issues forced me to give up that therapy. Without the NSAIDS my functioning decreased about 75%, severe muscle & joint pain.
I am using 10 tabs three times a day....a high dose used in serious cases. No side effects, however, it is out of pocket.
Google Wobenzym and you will see the many many conditions it's used for and the studies that have been done...it was developed in Germany in the early sixties.
This has allowed me to avoid the opiates and their side effects.
-------------------- Healing Smiles.....lightfoot Posts: 7228 | From CO | Registered: May 2002
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posted
Is wobenzym expensive? i am taking serrapeptase now, which i think is a systemic enzyme. is it pretty much the same thing?
Posts: 723 | From boston,ma | Registered: Jan 2011
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Carol in PA
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 5338
posted
Yes, it is expensive.
You're taking Serrapeptase now? How large a dose per day? From what I've experienced, you should be able to increase the dose and get improved results.
When I was looking up articles about systemic enzymes before I began taking them, I saw several references to physicians in Europe who prescribed large doses, 30 tablets daily, in order to "force the therapeutic response."
You take this on an empty stomach, and the protective coating on the tablets keeps them from dissolving until they pass into the intestines, where about 25% of the enzymes are absorbed.
You'll notice a different aroma to your stool, due to the enzymes.
When I reduce my dose, I notice increased muscle and joint pain, and the headaches get worse too. I don't want to go back to the level of pain that I had before.
Posts: 6956 | From Lancaster, PA | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
how much of a dose should i take? i just take one pilla day on empty stomach, dont know the milligrams or anything id have to check
Posts: 723 | From boston,ma | Registered: Jan 2011
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posted
Curcumin is great too... must take with food.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96239 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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springshowers
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 19863
posted
I just read somewhere that someone uses Gaba for severe pain and does not know why people are not talking about the benefit much more and i was going to look into it but i have no yet.
Anyone used it?
Posts: 2747 | From Unites States Of America | Registered: Apr 2009
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sparkle7
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10397
posted
Thanks for posting Blackstone. I have posted about this alot in the past. I agree with you.
There's an herb called kratom. You may want to do some research about it. It's not for everyone but it may help.
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- GABA was mentioned above. Be very careful and start with tiny doses. Although technically, it should not do this - for me - it severely lowers the seizure threshold. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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