'Kete-tracker
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Is this a medical question??
Posts: 1233 | From Dover, NH | Registered: Sep 2008
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sparkle7
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Did you read the first paragraph?
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More Deadly Smart Meter Horrors � Wake Up!
I just heard the news that smart meters will begin being installed in Santa Barbara, starting next month. We�ve had them in my neighborhood now for more than a year, and I gradually became quite ill from them, much like the �boiled frogs� who don�t notice at first that the temperature of the water is increasing.
By the time I got my local utility, PG&E, to remove the smart meters from my house, I�d come down with some sixteen smart-meter-related symptoms, including:
sleeplessness, ringing in the ears, nosebleeds, migraines, muscle tremors, heart palpitations, nausea, and blurred vision.
I now realize I need my neighbors to also opt out, because the smart meters emit microwave radiation that extends out in a one mile radius, with so much radiation it�s like living between 200 and 600 feet away from a cell phone tower.
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These are not good.
I'm not sure what the plan is for these in NJ but I would opt out if I could.
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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lpkayak
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oh sparkle i really wanted to pm you but your box is full
-------------------- Lyme? Its complicated. Educate yourself. Posts: 13712 | From new england | Registered: Feb 2004
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NanaDubo
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Maybe not a medical QUESTION - but certainly a medical concern!
Do you think that the public utilities are not promoting their own opinions and agendas?
"I have no doubt in my mind that at the present time the greatest polluting element in the earth's environment is the proliferation of electromagnetic fields. I consider that to be far greater on a global scale than warming." Robert O. Becker, M. D. Author of Cross Currents and The Body Electric
Maine has given us the "right" to opt out, which I did. If you don't want these meters coming to your town, start speaking up.
Posts: 1129 | From Maine | Registered: Feb 2008
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GiGi
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Keebler
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- Is this a Medical Matter of which we all need to be aware? Absolutely. Positively.
It's a Differential Diagnosis to consider, at the least.
This concern is not just from a "groupie" website. A web search shows many other intelligent people around the U.S. & other countries, an ocean away, voicing serious concerns about this, with good reasons.
That last link is beyond eye-opening, with the health link within that and symptom list.
Buzzing can also come from these. The level of torture in that, alone, for anyone with inner ear problems can be devastating. Plus all the other symptoms that are being linked to these.
It should probably now be on every diagnosis list to consider for each patient how close they may be to these meters.
We'll also have to consider this when judging our progress. If protocols are not working well, find out if Smart Meters are located nearby.
Especially with neurological symptoms, this can be devastating. Anxiety is bound to go out of bounds for a lot of folks.
I predict violent crime will be on the rise in these areas, too, from the unsettling effects. Even the wrong kind of fluorescent lights (pink) can make the most balanced people go a bit bonkers in the irritability department.
(See: Dr. John M. Ott's works on light & health. He also gets into the EMF issues.)
I just found that my city has invested tens of millions of dollars in this and they are already around. Can't figure out by any computer search if in my neighborhood or not.
But, looking out my window to the next apt. bldg. I see there is still a set of 18 analog meters on the outer wall (not sure where they are for my bldg.- or those for all the other bldgs surrounding mine).
This sure caught me unaware. Will call them on Monday. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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sparkle7
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I certainly do think it's a medical issue along with all the cell phone towers & other EMF devices that are installed or marketed without any public review.
I suppose you think there is no link between brain cancer & cell phone use, 'Kete... ? I guess that's how people felt about cigarette smoking way back in the day. I'd rather be aware than sorry.
I think this is an important health concern along with fluoride, GMOs, mercury and other heavy metals, radon, etc. If no one says, "Hey, wait a minute." cancer treatment will be a normal part of aging.
I went to the dentist the other day & they had to ask me why I didn't want a "metal" filling... In this day & age??? It kind of makes me think - What planet are they living on? Yes, I want a substance that belongs in a toxic waste dump in my head...
I don't like being sarcastic but you really have to ask (& study, give some thought to) what this is about before jumping to conclusions about "groupie websites".
(Sorry lpkayak - I'll try to delete some PMs later today.)
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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sparkle7
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This website has alot of information about this issue -
The information is there. Not everyone exposed to asbestos became ill from it... If there is a possibility that this could be a potential health hazard - it needs to be thoroughly investigated. There's enough proof in my mind that this warrants further investigation before being installed all over the country.
Once someone makes up their mind about something - it's very hard to convince them of otherwise, though. I could post 1000+ studies & they would still think it's OK.
Some people only think something exists if Oprah has a show about it... Or they see it on TV.
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
Its very important that this thread stay here. I opted out in Santa Cruz. Although I am surrounded by them in other apts.
It is a medical problem and more so with people that r already dealing with chronic illness.
Having to pay PG&E to opt out.Ridiculous,having to pay for something harming us.You pay less if ur low income.
Like many things we r fighting them.Thanks Gigi for posting here about this. Stand up people.
Posts: 905 | From Santa Cruz,Calif | Registered: Aug 2005
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'Kete-tracker
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I don't want to get into a big argument about the effects of EMF. The jury's still out on the health effects of most ALL of these new "sources" of radio waves; WiFi, cellphone service, iPads & Pods, Bluetooth, etc.
I only was trying to say that a Medical Questions board on a Lyme & Tick-Borne DISEASES website is NO place to put a link to a website [that IS self-promoting], about a matter that IS NOT directly related to people suffering from Lyme or it's co-infections. I just don't buy it.
A bonafide news report on a possible health hazard from a new technology (such as 'Smart Meters') MIGHT... MIGHT belong on the 'Off Topic' or 'Activism' boards.
*I* believe the Medical Questions board should be kept a place where people can ask questions about legitimate issues surrounding the diagnosis, treatment & understandings about tick-borne diseases... not a general postimg site for controversial topics.
I guess I'll have to disagree with you, Keebler, on this one. A "link" to a Site discussing Lyme would be fine, IF the poster introduces what it's about. But posting links to "self-promoting" Sites (i.e: december212012(dot)com ) on a topic that SOME believe indirectly relates to one's ability to recover from this disease- one that's bacterial/ viral in nature- seems a stretch to me. - - - And, BTW, Sparkle, I DO believe there is a link between certain cancers and continuous hi-level EMF radiation, especially at higher frequencies. Also to repetitive exposure to "ionizing" radiation, such as X-ray machines & radioactive isotopes.
I just don't feel today's wireless devices as regulated by the FCC, which run at milli-watt levels (in the 1 to 3 GHz range), are enough above background EMF "noise"- at typically encountered distances- to make a difference 1 way or the other.
But I will check further into the *wireless* Smart Meters that are slated to be distributed around My area soon. I'll find out for All o' ya just what frequencies they "communicate" to the local [PSNH] utility at, and at what power levels.
(Ya know- It's *especially* confounding for me to see many here seemingly "running scared" over invisible, local, low-level EMF (radio-wave) radiation, and AT THE SAME TIME, embracing machines that spew out ^strong^ EMF waves, albiet at "select frequencies", as Holy Grails to fight OFF these T.B.D.s & symptoms. Absoultely ASTOUNDING!)
Posts: 1233 | From Dover, NH | Registered: Sep 2008
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Keebler
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- They are reported to cause quite a buzz, literally.
That alone is good reason for those with lyme to be aware of these. Buzzing of various kinds of lights, etc. can cause major problems for those who have ear issues from lyme.
There have been suicides, people not being able to handle some kinds of electronic buzzing from a variety of street lights, exterior wall lights, especially if adding to tinnitus or hyperacusis. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
This is as relevant to our medical condition as any discussion about diet or lifestyle. It's known that Dr. K. in Washington has people limit their exposure to remote phones, cell phones, electricity, wireless computers, etc.
Electrical sensitivity is a big issue, and for those of us with fragile bodies and neurological issues, it is something to point out here for everyone.
There are countless counties throughout the U.S. that have called a moratorium on smart meters, yet the electric companies continue to ignore the desires of people and whole communities.
Here in Northern California we can "opt out" of smart meters. Low income folks pay 10 or 15. to opt out, then 5 dollars a month.
Personally, i think it is ridiculous to have to pay to "opt out" but just as i pay extra for organic food, i will pay extra to keep my analog meter.
Thanks for posting and i support keeping this thread in medical ~
ease and peace ~
Posts: 164 | From North America | Registered: Mar 2009
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posted
This is as relevant to our medical condition as any discussion about diet or lifestyle. It's known that Dr. K. in Washington has people limit their exposure to remote phones, cell phones, electricity, wireless computers, etc.
Electrical sensitivity is a big issue, and for those of us with fragile bodies and neurological issues, it is something to point out here for everyone.
There are countless counties throughout the U.S. that have called a moratorium on smart meters, yet the electric companies continue to ignore the desires of people and whole communities.
Here in Northern California we can "opt out" of smart meters. Low income folks pay 10 or 15. to opt out, then 5 dollars a month.
Personally, i think it is ridiculous to have to pay to "opt out" but just as i pay extra for organic food, i will pay extra to keep my analog meter.
Thanks for posting and i support keeping this thread in medical ~
ease and peace ~
Posts: 164 | From North America | Registered: Mar 2009
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NanaDubo
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I was recently at a seminar at which Dr. Magda Havas spoke. Google or look for her on youtube.
She has a device that picks up the sounds of these gadgets that we supposedly cannot hear. She played them all at once - cell phone, smart meter, wireless phone and I forget what else.
When I heard the noise from all of these, I remember whispering to Gigi, "surprised were not all insane".
We might not be able to hear them in the same way we don't hear a dog whistle but when you are surrounded by these devices in your home and all your neighbors homes and if you happen to have cell towers near you.........
A physician friend of mine in L.A. who studies all of this, found a small block of vacant buildings in a busy downtown area. The block was surround by many low cell towers.
She inquired about the buildings being empty and one piece of information she got was that a gym that had been there closed because 3 instructors in their 30's all got cancer within a couple of years.
Same physician studied an area in Jamaica Plain, MA that is loaded with cell towers on the roofs of apartment buildings, cancer rate has gone up incredibly in that neighborhood.
I believe in the UK, wireless internet has been banned in public schools and libraries. With all the lobbying here, I wonder if it can ever happen.
I have to pay extra NOT to have a smart meter. Fine with me. I convinced 2 out of 3 of my nearest neighbors to opt out as well.
I know there have been studies kete, that show bacteria grows many, many times faster when exposed to these frequencies. That makes it a matter of concern for everyone, especially those with lyme and other illnesses.
Posts: 1129 | From Maine | Registered: Feb 2008
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MichaelTampa
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quote:Originally posted by 'Kete-tracker: I don't want to get into a big argument about the effects of EMF. The jury's still out on the health effects of most ALL of these new "sources" of radio waves; WiFi, cellphone service, iPads & Pods, Bluetooth, etc.
I only was trying to say that a Medical Questions board on a Lyme & Tick-Borne DISEASES website is NO place to put a link to a website [that IS self-promoting], about a matter that IS NOT directly related to people suffering from Lyme or it's co-infections. I just don't buy it.
A bonafide news report on a possible health hazard from a new technology (such as 'Smart Meters') MIGHT... MIGHT belong on the 'Off Topic' or 'Activism' boards.
*I* believe the Medical Questions board should be kept a place where people can ask questions about legitimate issues surrounding the diagnosis, treatment & understandings about tick-borne diseases... not a general postimg site for controversial topics.
I guess I'll have to disagree with you, Keebler, on this one. A "link" to a Site discussing Lyme would be fine, IF the poster introduces what it's about. But posting links to "self-promoting" Sites (i.e: december212012(dot)com ) on a topic that SOME believe indirectly relates to one's ability to recover from this disease- one that's bacterial/ viral in nature- seems a stretch to me. - - - And, BTW, Sparkle, I DO believe there is a link between certain cancers and continuous hi-level EMF radiation, especially at higher frequencies. Also to repetitive exposure to "ionizing" radiation, such as X-ray machines & radioactive isotopes.
I just don't feel today's wireless devices as regulated by the FCC, which run at milli-watt levels (in the 1 to 3 GHz range), are enough above background EMF "noise"- at typically encountered distances- to make a difference 1 way or the other.
But I will check further into the *wireless* Smart Meters that are slated to be distributed around My area soon. I'll find out for All o' ya just what frequencies they "communicate" to the local [PSNH] utility at, and at what power levels.
(Ya know- It's *especially* confounding for me to see many here seemingly "running scared" over invisible, local, low-level EMF (radio-wave) radiation, and AT THE SAME TIME, embracing machines that spew out ^strong^ EMF waves, albiet at "select frequencies", as Holy Grails to fight OFF these T.B.D.s & symptoms. Absoultely ASTOUNDING!)
The jury is still out on cigarette smoking too?
It is very directly related to the disease, at least for some. Sorry you are unaware.
Posts: 1927 | From se usa | Registered: Mar 2010
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'Kete-tracker
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Thanks for re-posting my post, Michael.
I read the item "More deadly smart meter horrors" It was a fantastical collage of unsupported & quite accusational information that seems to give no references to any legitimate studies that show any undue harm resulting from tne wireless technology used by these so-called "smart meters".
Can you point me to ANY scientfic study [authorized by by an official governmental body or completed by a qualified technical research group] that shows unusual or dangerous harm created by these latest power meters? I'd LOVE to see it! I really would.
As I've come to understand, these new meters are being used to: 1) save the utility the costs involved with sending a person around in a motor vehicle each month to read the [analog] meter. {With transport costs steadily, rising I can see the benefit!}
2) allow the utility to determine the extent of any power outages caused by "load-end" events, like storm damage & equipment failure.
3) provide peak load data from each meter to allow the utility to better manage overall electrical supply.
But the BIGGEST reason utilities are moving in this direction? FREE MONEY... from the U.S. Government! [From a recent N.H. Court hearing in Grafton Superior Court, Judge Peter Bornstein presiding] NH Electric Co-op CFO Dena DaLucca stated in an affadavit that- "if the judge issued an injunction that stopped the installation [of Smart Meters] altogether, costs could reach $1.8 million for each month the injunction remained in effect. That delay, she added, could also cause officials to miss their compliance deadlines and place the federal grant money in jeopardy, with costs ranging from $10 million to $17.8 million, not including legal expenses." <http://www.unionleader.com/article/20120227/NEWS05/702279965>
Federal grant bucks in jepordy... It's always the Money, huh?
NOW, as to how the meters actually work, you MAY be surprised to know this wireless 'microwave' communication, sharing spectrum space with cellphones/ towers & WiFi (1-3GHz), is ONLY GENERATED over a couple seconds less than 10 times a day!!
From R-Rep. Andew Manuse (Derry, NH) on Senate Bill 266: "...NHEC �smart meters� communicate the electrical-use data of a whole home (the same data that �dumb meters� communicate today) along with a unique identifier (not a meter number) via a weak microwave communication. Each �smart meter� transmits these two pieces of information once for one-and-a-half seconds, seven to ten times a day, through an Internet-like node communications system. A single Smart Meter at the end of a line will transmit the entire line�s data to the utility�s internal network for processing." <http://amanuse.rlcnh.org/2012/02/09/manuse-testimony-for-sb-266-prohibiting-electric-utilities-from-installing-smart-meter-gateway-devices-wtihout-the-residential-or-business-p roperty-owners-consent/>
Hmmm... Sounds like one's "exposure" is a whole heck of a lot less than some of these activists would have you believe!
In conclusion, I have to say I *like* the old analog way of life & I AM suspeicious of the "privacy concerns" the installation of these 'smart meters' has raised (to be covered in a later post ), but I also see how their use *does* save the local utilities both cost & time in keeping our electric grid operating smoothly. ------- And, no, MichaelT, I believe the jury came back on the issue of cigarette smoking, or more precisely, tobbaco company behavior, some years ago. Posts: 1233 | From Dover, NH | Registered: Sep 2008
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GiGi
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sparkle7
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I think it's about the cumlative effects of these things with no concern by agencies that should be protecting our health. I don't want to spend all day pulling up studies. The studies are there.
I believe this increased EMF exposure does contribute to ill health. Densly populated areas will be more & more difficult to live in for people who are sensitive. All of these things can contribute to ill health in incremental ways. Going through the airport scanner, getting a dental or other X-ray, cell phone towers, radio & tv broadcast towers (there are alot near where I live), wifi, cell phone, computer, TV & microwave usage... It all adds up. Not to mention nuclear power & the adverse effects of that...
I'm not a scientist but some frequencies can be used for healing. Wouldn't it be nice if these authority figures making decisions about all of this stuff would think to broadcast a frequency that would promote good health rather than use this technology for monetary gain or social control?
Think of how much money would be saved by decreasing all of our ill health costs. What if TVs, cell phones & cell phone towers, microwave ovens, airport scanners, etc. were all engineered from the beginning to be healing rather than creating negative health effects? Maybe I'm a fool but I think it could be done.
I think health & life should be valued over illness & war. Think of how much money would have been saved if we didn't have constant killing & ill health agendas - if the issue is about saving money. The priority is not about protecting life & health, unfortunately.
I'm not against progress but it would be interesting to me if the point of view where changed. What if we used our recources to make a healthy & loving world rather than a controling & toxic one?
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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MichaelTampa
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I ran across a paper estimated the expected increase in brain cancer cases over the next couple decades as a result of this microwave radiation people are using in the form of cell phones. This stuff is well known to be deadly.
But no, I have never seen a study on these smart meters, per se. For the majority of people, the harm will be cumulative and more will die of cancer as a result. Really, it's obvious from what we know. Only question is how many people, and what other conditions, we don't know about, and so on. But it will be impossible to allocate specific deaths given all this radiation is now so widespread.
Dr. K. even published a study a few years ago on how this radiation makes the fungus grow much faster.
By the way, that couple seconds 10 times a day thing is just a lie they throw out. I don't live in California, different utility company, but when I spoke to my utility about this, as I got a letter saying the time was approaching to start radiating me some more, the guy on the phone said a similar thing, just a few times a day kind of thing. I told him by then I knew that was absolutely not true. I have a meter, I have measured the neighbors, and I have measured the one I eventually got. Ones around here send out signals every 5 seconds or so, 24/7, no respite. Some believe this pulsing is probably the worst for us, perhaps so.
Another advantage of the smart meters for the pigs who install them, is they get to charge us for electricity to run the machine all the time. They do use more electricity the old ones.
Posts: 1927 | From se usa | Registered: Mar 2010
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'Kete-tracker
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I agree with your philosophy, sparkle. But I wonder if we all can't find ways to better eliminate excessive environmental "noise" by first studying & addressing sources that are of a more *continuous* nature- and closer to our bodies- such as our TVs, computer monitors & Internet devices. We live with these daily.
There Have been great advances. LCD, & now LED monitors & TVs have replaced hi-vacuum & hi-voltage display screens (CRTs). Many of us remember the X-ray dangers that the older 1960s color TVs posed. The new monitors give off FAR less non-luminous energy... and use far less power than the TV "clunkers" of my youth.
And the new cellphone PCS technology has brought with it the ability to make & take calls using a MAGNITUDE less of radiated RF. (This is why cellphone batteries lasted so much longer in 'digital' mode, back when that transition was occuring in the industry.)
What *I'd* like to see?... as far as better electric meters? I still think a drive around by utility workers is a good idea. It provides benefits both for the company (to spot dangerous electrical situations) & the community (to check on remote residences & "shut-ins"), not to mention exercise for the worker.(!) But converting to new electric meters which are "RF radiation-free" EXCEPT WHEN a meter-reader "pages" the device once-a-month from his/her handheld device, whether standing nearby, or- on a bad weather day- from the pick-up or car they're scooting around in... That would seem to eliminate any concerns involving microwave EMF exposure.
Or they could use all the old home telephone wires for communication back to the power Co. They're starting to be left by the wayside as families go all-cellular. That's how a fancy meter that PSNH put on my Mom's house back in ~1979 worked. She was at the end of a long neighborhood feed, & so she was chosen to get one of these "line-monitoring meters" that called into the company if anything was amiss, like line fluctuations or a pwr outage. (They moved it to a better location as the neighborhood expanded.)
Oh &, BTW, those utility trucks? They should all be hybrids... or electrics! Posts: 1233 | From Dover, NH | Registered: Sep 2008
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'Kete-tracker
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Well, Michael, I don't live in CA either, & I certainly AM going to check into this question about how often these Smart Meters "transmit", on what frequency(s) and at what levels. My understanding is that Siemens is the main manufacturer of these meters in the U.S.
As far as the utility meters's electricity usage, I'm afraid I know about that one. The analog meters sense the A.C. flow (going into the house) along an internal metal link. There is no added electrical "load" from the spinning metal disc, hence no X'tra charge for it's operation. The new meters DO use a few watts to run, though it would be easy enough for the meter designer to draw the power needed from the "utility side" of the 4-prong slotted plug it uses, so I don't suspect any power usage is "recorded" by it' own circuitry. But that would be a sneeky way to add ~50 cents/ month, huh?
I am curious about this "study" of Dr. K's... about "the fungus" that grows much faster? Can you provide a link? I'm wondering what he used to measurably expose the fungus to EMF. I'd love to read about it.
(oh, & be careful how you talk about utility workers. I have a friend who's just trying to provide for his family as he heads around with an older fellow in a bucket truck, taking care of crossed lines & such. He has health insurance, but knows a couple co-workers who are dealing with this Lyme that we all have & they're running into the same insurance coverage problems.)
Posts: 1233 | From Dover, NH | Registered: Sep 2008
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sparkle7
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Some articles...
Why is Lyme Disease Not JUST a Tick-Borne Disease Any More?
Dr. K takes microwave radiation and electromagnetic fields very seriously, as it can have a profound impact on Lyme disease.
"One of my primary treatments for Lyme disease is to put people in protective clothing that shields them from incoming microwaves," he says. "We shield the bedside. We turn off the wireless internet at home. We put shielding paint on the houses. That has been a more successful strategy to treating Lyme disease and to get people neurologically well than any of the antibiotics or any of the antimicrobial compounds."
He's convinced that the increased virulence we're now seeing is related to the dramatic increase in electromagnetic fields and microwave radiation from cell phones, cell towers, and all manner of wireless technologies. Therefore, EMF and microwave radiation mitigation are part of the standard protocol, as any subsequent treatment of Lyme disease will not be as effective unless these external factors are addressed.
Below is a summarized outline of Dr. K's treatment for Lyme disease. For more information and details, please listen to the interview in its entirety, or read through the transcript.
First, external factors that act upon the body 24/7 are evaluated.
This includes electrosmog, EMF, microwave radiation from wireless technologies, and molds. To test for the presence of mold, he uses the ERMI score, which is a semi-quantitative assessment of how much mold is in your home. The score should not exceed 2. However, most of his patients score between 15 and 20. For more information on mold, Dr. K recommends www.SurvivingMold.com. Once external influencing factors have been determined, they're remediated and mitigated. (For mold remediation, please refer to this previous article.)
To mitigate microwave radiation, Dr. K recommends shielding your home with a graphite paint called Y Shield outside, and use special silver-coated cloth for your curtains. These measures will compromise your ability to receive cell phone calls, so depending on your situation, you may opt to shield just your bedroom, or shield your entire home and just use a landline.
All cordless telephones are removed, and patients are instructed to turn off all the fuses at night, until they have recovered from Lyme disease.
---
Why Where You Sleep Matters If You Want a Healthy Baby
I'm not against technology. I don't know how to explain it - it's more on an intuitive level but I think alot of technology that could make life better here is being suppressed. There are things I have read that really make me wonder...
For example, Tesla supposedly invented a way for everyone to have free energy back in the early 1900s. This technology was suppressed in favor of one that was able to make some people big profits... Go figure???
I don't know if this is true but it makes me think... I suppose I could spend hours & hours researching all of this but I don't have a science background. Given how things are, I would suspect other things are being suppressed, too.
This whole model of thinking needs a change - profit for some while others suffer is just wrong. There's enough resources to go around if everything was managed in a more enlightened way. Sorry to go off on a philosophical tangent. I do believe all of these things are connected...
lymie_in_md
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posted
Thought I'd stop by and say hello to all, but also add there maybe a little bit of light looming over the horizon. It's possible a replacement for wifi might be lifi. With lifi, the communication is through the visible spectrum not rf which is a big contributor to EMF or electro magnetic smog. The visible spectrum communicates using LEDs. It also has its own acronym VLC for visible light communications.
RF or radio frequencies has eaten up all the available frequencies and will be replaced in the next 2 to 6 years. The visible spectrum offers about 10k more frequencies.
I'll be happy when all the cell phone towers are dismantled.
Sorry I haven't been around, but I'm still doing extremely well, just a bit too busy I guess.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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posted
Smart meters are supposed to be bad for health, especially for people who are EMF-sensitive. I've heard that people could also become electrosensitive, if they weren't beforehand.
Also, their peak use can spike at higher power levels than acceptable power in an erratic way.
'Kete-tracker
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posted
bob, It doesn't address the need to "go thru walls", though, like WiFi can does it?
And so what's so bad about a cable or wire? My grandma used one on her phone, for... 70 years!
Robin- your line, "their peak use can spike at higher power levels than acceptable power..." is confusing. What did you mean by their 'peak use'?
Posts: 1233 | From Dover, NH | Registered: Sep 2008
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sparkle7
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I have a corded phone. I do have WiFi, though... It was the best option for where I live. I have other issues with this place regarding EMF but I can't move right now.
I lived in the south & up here near NYC - I did feel better where there was less EMFs. I like it up here, too, so I have to give it some thought. I would prefer to live in a place with less EMFs given the choice of living with more EMFs vs. living with less.
Just my personal preference having lived in high density locations vs. lower density population locations. Where you have more people living in closer proximity - you will have more EMFs. Even the laundry mat across the street has WiFi I can pick up in my apartment... Not to mention the noxious laundry detergent fumes...
(Hi Bob! Good to hear you are feeling well!!! I envy you - even though I hate to admit it... LOL - I really am glad for you.)
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
See smart meter explained in one of the videos.
posted
Well, that's the meeting I went to ON TIME, on the daylight savings change day - you know, when you get to see who knew about the time change and who didn't...
The folks I was listening to at the Tesla society have IQs in the 1000s, methinks - not me - I was just trying to grasp what they were saying -
Spiking means the use of the smart meter can go from 0 use to very high (not sure of that number) in 3 milliseconds - that's what I wrote down - that change is not supposed to be very good for people.
I also took notes that people are supposed to be 10 feet away from them, but if RF-sensitive, meaning radio-frequency sensitive, then much further than that.
The placement of the meters may not allow people that distance option. That's why people are opting out and asking their neighbors to do the same. People consider it a science disaster here and are doing a lot of educating about it.
Posts: 13171 | From San Francisco | Registered: May 2006
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'Kete-tracker
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 17189
posted
Re: "can go from 0 use to very high (not sure of that number) in 3 milliseconds"
OH! O.K. I think you misunderstood. It just means the *circuitry* in the new power meters that SENSES the electrical load (which all appliances & lights in the house are creating] can "respond" to a quick up-tick in current...even a load that spikes for only 3 milliseconds. It does NOT mean the meter is MAKING a pulse or "spike" itSELF. It's just "watching" what the home is drawing.
Interesting that people ARE supposed to stay 10 FEET away from these new meters. That SOUNDS as if either:
1) They want you to keep away from "das blinken lightz" so you won't mess with the installation, OR (more likely)
2) the 1 & 1/2 second bursts (that SUPPOSEDLY happen about 10 times a day +/- ?) are SO strong that federal regulations would require that any human [presence] needs to be 10 feet distant so that the ERP (effective radiated power) of the meter-communicating signal you're exPOSED to doesn't exceed already-set-by-the-FCC limits on RF exposure. (The length of exposure is often not as important to the FCC as the absolute levels.)
That's why we, as volunteer engineers, can't work on the WSCA-FM roof antenna down in Portsmouth, NH w/o shutting the transmitter down, even though the ERP is only 100 watts, FAR less than most radio stations.
O.S.H.A. stipulates maximum RF exposure levels to "workers" & says NO WAY. Can't even have folks present one floor down on a regular [all-day basis.] Fortunately, there IS no 'work' area "one flor down". That's the roof! (Too bad there's no OSHA oversight for the "home-place" on this issue, huh?) - - -
"stay 10 feet away", huh? WOW! And just WHO was saying to stay ten feet away, Robin? A 'rep' from the utility? A Tesla Society researcher? A local gov't official?
Posts: 1233 | From Dover, NH | Registered: Sep 2008
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posted
Kete - so you're an engineer? Do you think smart meters are safe? If you do, what would you say to the people who are reporting feeling very sick around them?
And granted, the folks reporting that they're sick around them are electro-sensitive by their own admittance.
If you'd like to go see, the San Francisco Tesla Society talk on Sunday was given by a very experienced electrical engineer. Just google for it and read about her credentials.
Maybe you'll want to communicate directly with her? She's the scientist, not me - I was just taking notes.
Posts: 13171 | From San Francisco | Registered: May 2006
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'Kete-tracker
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 17189
posted
Engineering degree. FCC-licensed. Worked as a station engineer in the past. Currently an electronic service tech for a couple shops. And doing independant design/ construct work.
I woulda said "Oh yeah!" to safety only days ago, but the more I learn about these "Smart" meters, the more baffled I become.
I Plan to talk w/ both someone in the local utility who I know AND discuss issue w/ that republican House representative's office in Derry (he intro'd legislation in the NH House re: this recently), as well as TRY to get technical data on a Seimens ["smart"] power-meter. Then I'll have a much better informed opinion about all of this.
Seems they're trying to "broadcast" from one meter to the next w/o the benefit of a roof antenna, which would cut the req'd power levels of these RF bursts WAY down.
I can think of a Couple ways to do all this better... like use what's called "carrier current" transmission (@ very low pwr levels), to send the homes' data up to a local transponder at every pole transformer (from each house meter). The carrier-current method would use AM-band frequencies (fairly low) at power levels of less than 0.1 watt. And even THAT could be active less than a minute a day.
Then have that little box w-a-y up on the pole either "call" the utility, via cell sevice, OR spit a bit of information via a UHF ["yagi"] directional antenna, back towards the nearest Electric Co office or garage.
Why each meter has to "yell" to the next meter down the street from it's perch on the outside wall of each residence is beyond me! That next meter at "old man Harvey's house" might be a 1/2 mile away!
Even w/ the latest in lo-noise LNA's at the receiving end, you'd still need quite an omnidirectional (?) blast out'a that 1st meter if the next one is in a rural, hilly area! Wierd. Posts: 1233 | From Dover, NH | Registered: Sep 2008
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lymie_in_md
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14197
posted
hi kete-tracker. lifi won't be able to go through walls. The light frequency is visible light no different than sunlight or an incandescent bulp. Or the led light on your remote. The light frequency is safe even healthful were the RF frequency might not be. Our best hope is lifi completely eradicates the need for RF and all the emf issues it causes.
A big push to change from rf to lifi will start sometime in 2013 and on. In 2014 there won't be anymore frequencies on the rf to dole out.
So my understanding, visible light is safe and rf is not.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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), but I also see how their use *does* save the local utilities both cost & time in keeping our electric grid operating smoothly.![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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I'd love to read about it.![[tsk]](graemlins/tsk.gif)
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