posted
I apologize for posting so many questions. I am very confused.....there is Lyme, coinfections, gene mutations, detox and nutritional ideas. It's hard to figure out what applies and what to really focus on in my brain fogged world.
I have a lot of mold to moderate liver pain. This is since January when I went off doxy and started yeast diet. Liver pain got worse on biaxin.
How much is normal?is it due to processing toxins? When do you worry? Do you start detox yourself?
I am totally overwhelmed right now but I thank you all for sharing your knowledge to try to help me
-------------------- Tick bite in 2006, bullseye rash, treated with 2 rounds of 2 weeks of doxy. (once in 2006, once in 2009) Dx with chronic Lyme May 2011. LLMD April 2012, Treating with omnicef/zith Lots of supplements! Posts: 640 | From Connecticut | Registered: Apr 2011
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TF
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 14183
posted
I don't know what makes you think that a certain amount of liver pain could be considered normal. Did a doctor once tell you this? I can't imagine a doctor saying that.
To my mind NO amount of liver pain is normal. I never had liver pain with my 10 years of undiagnosed lyme disease, and I never had liver pain with my 3 years of high dose antibiotic treatment for lyme and coinfections.
Based on all of your posts, you really need to get to a practitioner who knows how to treat this problem. I believe it is all related to your inability to detoxify.
You need to tell your current doc about this problem. You may need to get your liver enzymes tested asap--meaning today. If they are high, you will need to stop ALL treatment until they return to normal. That could take months.
This is nothing to mess around with. It is very serious.
Even if your liver enzymes are still in the normal range, you may have to stop all treatment for lyme until you get detoxified. I don't believe you will stop feeling sick until you are detoxified.
People full of toxins suffer terribly and feel horrible. Adding antibiotics of any kind just make it worse as they add to the toxic load (because they are killing germs).
If your current doctor does not know how to handle this problem, find someone who does. It may be a naturopath, a practitioner of ayervedic medicine, etc.
I had a friend with lyme who could not detoxify. Lyme treatment made her sicker and sicker. Finally, by the end of her treatment, she was "allergic" or made sick by all foods except 5. This is a typical reaction when the body is overloaded with toxins. It starts reacting to normal substances as if they were toxic or allergens.
The lyme doc said, "I'm sorry. My treatment has made you sicker." and sent her to a person who was good at detoxing (not an MD or lyme doc). After that person, she went to a practitioner of ayervedic medicine who did even more detox on her and in 3 months she was the happiest woman on the planet, emailing everyone about her new-found health.
She was rid of lyme and coinfections and all of the toxins also.
You can't just try to plod on when you are so full of toxins. You need to detoxify asap.
If you have the ability to research it and do it yourself, fine. But, it is not going to be easy since you have brain fog, etc. So, the easier way is to put yourself in the hands of an expert.
Perhaps you could contact the lyme support groups in your state and nearby states and ask for names of good detox experts if your current doctor does not know how to detox you and does not know any detox experts.
Posts: 9931 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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posted
I agree with TF that liver pain is not normal.
However it can be a common lyme and tickborne disease symptom.
There could be many causes for the pain. Toxins are one cause. Other possibilities include a fatty liver, babesia in my opinion and possibly even extremely elevated cholesterol. And what many think is liver pain may actually be pain from gallstones.
The first thing is to get your liver enzymes checked. Make sure they also check direct and indirect bilirubin.
Hubby has had mild liver pain from time to time even with normal liver enzymes and then other times when the enzyme levels were elevated he had no liver pain. For him liver pain is usually a result of elevated bilirubin when babesia or something kills off lots of red blood cells quickly.
A castor oil pack will usually help if the pain is mild.
I would not try a liver flush until you have had your enzyme levels tested and spoken with your doc.
This is not medical advice, just my opinion based on hubby's experiences.
Bea Seibert
Posts: 7306 | From Martinsville,VA,USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
TF. I don't know whether to laugh or be really scared but I feel like if you were here you would be beating me over the head with something.
And yes. I think that it is partly the brain fog but really this would be overwhelming to anyone without brain fog
I have been working with a PT for about 6 months. His theory has always been that because my body had to fight so hard during the yeast die off it allowed the Lyme to return. I think this fits with your inability to detox theory.
In answer to your questions. Although I have had my share of uncaring doctors no one ever said it was normal. I just assumed that if a body is fighting hard to get rid of something the liver might tend to get a bit cranky. Plus..and we all know this...I have had pain before (eg in the kidneys) that was tested and tested and everything came back normal. I did mention pain to the doc I saw a few weeks ago....the one who put me on biaxin. She didn't seem concerned.
I do trust my LLND and did call her today. She is the one who referred me to the other supposed llmd for more aggressive treatment
Of course I forgot that the office is closed on Wed.
Left a message for when they return tomorrow. She will be able to,guide me I think.
-------------------- Tick bite in 2006, bullseye rash, treated with 2 rounds of 2 weeks of doxy. (once in 2006, once in 2009) Dx with chronic Lyme May 2011. LLMD April 2012, Treating with omnicef/zith Lots of supplements! Posts: 640 | From Connecticut | Registered: Apr 2011
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posted
Seibert I didn't see your post My cholesterol levels are good from testing just a month or two ago. There are some red blood cell issues on my blood tests. Nothing anyone has ever really addressed except anemia for which they blamed uterine fibroids........but now I wonder if it was more related to the Lyme or coinfections
Where do you find castor oil? Also with liver pain I get increased sharp headaches on the right side of my head. I don't feel like I should be taking pain relievers for it though because it would tax my liver even more. Does that sound right?
-------------------- Tick bite in 2006, bullseye rash, treated with 2 rounds of 2 weeks of doxy. (once in 2006, once in 2009) Dx with chronic Lyme May 2011. LLMD April 2012, Treating with omnicef/zith Lots of supplements! Posts: 640 | From Connecticut | Registered: Apr 2011
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
Liver pain is not normal. That would tell me to IMMEDIATELY slow down/STOP the killing activity and paying attention to organ support and moving the toxins out of the body by whatever means appeal to you.
Adding effective binders avoiding constipation. Lymphatic drainage; colonics. Castor Oil packs. UNDA 243 for liver and kidney.
Your doctor should answer this!
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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TF
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 14183
posted
Regarding your PT's theory, you wrote:
"I have been working with a PT for about 6 months. His theory has always been that because my body had to fight so hard during the yeast die off it allowed the Lyme to return."
I hope you realize now that the 200 mg doxy that you took for 7 months was not enough to get rid of lyme and coinfections. So, your lyme never left.
Once you have had lyme for more than a few months, it must be treated by a combination of antibiotics (that hit different forms of lyme) all at high doses.
Coinfections must also be treated. You can never get rid of lyme without treatment of the coinfections also. Each disease helps the others to stay in your body.
In addition, you have to strengthen your immune system to get rid of lyme. That is where the Burrascano exercise program comes in.
I'll bet that if you got your CD57 tested it would be extremely low, meaning that you can't fight off lyme right now.
So, just forget the idea that you ever got rid of lyme because it is impossible that you got rid of a long-standing case of lyme on 200 mg doxy daily for 7 or so months. That dose does not kill lyme according to Burrascano.
Posts: 9931 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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posted
Tf. You are correct. I KNOW I have never gotten rid of it. But it was kept at bay at least I am the first to admit that even on doxy I still had Lyme or co symptoms.
It was a hard one two,punch to go off the doxy and still fight yeast die off. And if I have learned nothing else on this site over the past week it is that combination therapy is needed. Now I just have to make it until May.
I think he is correct that the yeast added another layer that my body just could not process.
-------------------- Tick bite in 2006, bullseye rash, treated with 2 rounds of 2 weeks of doxy. (once in 2006, once in 2009) Dx with chronic Lyme May 2011. LLMD April 2012, Treating with omnicef/zith Lots of supplements! Posts: 640 | From Connecticut | Registered: Apr 2011
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-------------------- Tick bite in 2006, bullseye rash, treated with 2 rounds of 2 weeks of doxy. (once in 2006, once in 2009) Dx with chronic Lyme May 2011. LLMD April 2012, Treating with omnicef/zith Lots of supplements! Posts: 640 | From Connecticut | Registered: Apr 2011
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TF
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 14183
posted
Page 8 of Burrascano.
Lyme disease is like AIDS, my doctor told me, in that it supresses the immune system. Read about it in Burrascano.
Posts: 9931 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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-------------------- Tick bite in 2006, bullseye rash, treated with 2 rounds of 2 weeks of doxy. (once in 2006, once in 2009) Dx with chronic Lyme May 2011. LLMD April 2012, Treating with omnicef/zith Lots of supplements! Posts: 640 | From Connecticut | Registered: Apr 2011
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Hambone
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 29535
posted
I have had liver pain for 7 years and every single doctor I told this to did nothing. I mean, I did get a CT scan, ultrasound and endoscopy, but nothing was found so they said "learn to live with it". They started looking at me like I was a loon and just imagining the pain.
They all think that if your liver enzymes are fine, your liver is functioning normally, and it's frustrating because you KNOW it's not.
Posts: 1142 | From South | Registered: Dec 2010
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steve1906
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 16206
posted
How can you be sure it�s (Liver Pain)? I'm not saying it isn�t but, the pain could be coming from somewhere else.
Sometimes pain radiates from others parts of our body�s.
In my case, I have a lot of back problems, bulging disk, spine etc. I've had all the test performed more than once throughout the years � MRI�s -Cat-scans - abdominal ultrasounds etc, etc, etc...
I always have pain, mostly right sided (front and rear) (high & low).
I just wanted to point out, it�s not always the obvious. It�s sad but, sometimes we can do all testing we want, and they never have the answers for us.
-------------------- Everything I say is just my opinion! Posts: 3529 | From Massachusetts Boston Area | Registered: Jul 2008
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posted
Steve I was expecting somebody to ask this. I don't have. Good answer except to say that it'll things onsideted it make sense that it is my liver. No guarantees though. It's pretty consistent in my upper right abdomen.
Who knows though?
-------------------- Tick bite in 2006, bullseye rash, treated with 2 rounds of 2 weeks of doxy. (once in 2006, once in 2009) Dx with chronic Lyme May 2011. LLMD April 2012, Treating with omnicef/zith Lots of supplements! Posts: 640 | From Connecticut | Registered: Apr 2011
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