posted
it was always between 15 and 34, thats already very bad but 5 that is unbelievable... started ketek 3 weeks ago. what can i do??? anyone an idea what helps to increase cd57 and is not called transfer factor or reishimax?
thx 4 help @ all in advance
Posts: 140 | From Germany | Registered: Feb 2011
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MichaelTampa
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 24868
posted
That sure is low. Mine always dropped when I started a good regimen, so this drop, though scary, might be a good sign in any event.
I take Reishi from Paradise Herbs, very inexpensive. It energy tests as good, I don't know if it is helping specifically with CD57 or not. Coriolus is reputed to help with that as well, though never did too much good for me.
Posts: 1927 | From se usa | Registered: Mar 2010
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ktkdommer
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 29020
posted
My son took BRM4 and his CD57 is up to 119. We are also trying some Researched Nutritional products.
There should be some past posts on this topic.
-------------------- Things are never dull. After 3 fighting Lyme, 2 are in remission. Youngest is still sick, age 22. He has new diagnosed Chiari Malformation and Ehlers Danlos Syndrome. Posts: 1366 | From Perrysburg, Ohio | Registered: Nov 2010
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lpkayak
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5230
posted
im sorry...i thought this post was about D...i took out what i said. my cd57 was low normal a long time ago and i havent tested it since.
any other thoughts?
Posts: 140 | From Germany | Registered: Feb 2011
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Summer3
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 35286
posted
Mine is pretty low too. I sometimes worry about trying to raise it with supplements. Will that create a falsely high number? In other words, wouldn't the raise only be from the supplement and not from getting a handle on the lyme infection?
Wouldn't that make it harder (for the LLMD's that use it) to gauge progress?
posted
@summer3 i wouldnt care about this, having more cd57 cells makes your IS fight better so if you are close to winning the fight and one time you won the fight you can get off the cd57 "raisers"
Posts: 140 | From Germany | Registered: Feb 2011
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posted
mine was 23 a year ago just retested and now its 1 also on d im at a loss myself sorry theres no clear answer
-------------------- ------------ It took 20 years to find out I'm not crazy. New bite in 2010 pushed my body over the edge. Positive for lyme, babs, bart, and myco. I am not a doctor and happily offer only my own opinions. Posts: 357 | From The Beach | Registered: Feb 2011
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steve1906
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 16206
posted
Here's another one from LymeMD
CD57 What do these letters and numbers mean? The study of immunology is complex and confusing. I will try to simplify this, but it still may be hard to follow. Don't worry- most doctors don't get it either. Lymphocytes are the major white blood cells involved in the body's immune responses to infection- and other conditions, including cancer. They have been subdivided based on receptors located on their surface. The "expression" of these receptors is the basis for categorizing the various types of lymphocytes. The various types of lymphocytes have been shown to have specific functions. Lymphocytes express multiple receptors. The CD8 cells are generally referred to as killer T cells, not to be confused with natural killer T cells. The CD4 cells are referred to as helper T cells.
The initial response, the innate response, is directed by lymphocytes. The natural killer T cells, defined by receptors found on their surface, constitute a very tiny percentage of the T cell population. Nonetheless, they have an important role in fighting infection. Laboratory scientists have developed specialized technology which allows for the separation of these various subsets of lymphocytes.(Flow cytometry).
Most natural killer T cells (NKT cells) are associated with a surface receptor referred to as CD56. The CD57 marker is associated with a smaller subset of NKT cells. Interestingly, these surface receptors (CD57) have been found on both CD8 cells and CD4 cells. Normally, one would expect these markers to be found on CD8 cells- the population of killer T cells.
A powerful CD57 response is associated with Lyme infection and with other bacteria as well. Other spirochetes do not invoke this response because the structure of their cell wall is different. The unique thing about Lyme (Bb) is that it has lipo-polysacharides on its cell wall. This is antigenic(antibody producing) material, which is devoid of protein. CD57 cells respond to this type of antigen whereas other NKT cells do not.
The initial immune reaction- the innate response, involves the mobilization of CD57 cells and other T cells as well as cytokines and other chemicals. Normally, a secondary acquired immune response should follow the innate response. This is mediated by B cells aided by helper T cells. Ultimately, the acquired immune response fails. Lyme (Bb) is driven inside the cells as L-forms. B cell responses do not work here. It then falls on T cell responses to become the body's major immune response needed to keep Lyme and other intracellular germs at bay.
CD57 responses involve the same pro-inflammatory cytokines as seen in Th1 helper T cell responses.
If CD57 responses are low, it may mean that these cells are being consumed by the immune system in the fight against Lyme. If they are high, it may mean that the body is busy cranking out the T cells to assist in the fight against Lyme.
There is little published regarding the clinical usefulness of this test. Dr. Stricker has reported that this measurement "May" be helpful in assessing the degree of illness seen in chronic Lyme patients.
So I have been ordering this test for years. Thousands. Unfortunately, I am left with the conclusion that it has been of very little help to my patients. I have seen no correlation between CD57 and disease activity. Patients in clinical remission may have very low levels and patients with end stage tertiary Lyme disease may have very high levels. Individual immune responses are difficult to predict. Dr. Burrascano has suggested that the CD57 test might be an inexpensive way to screen for Lyme disease. I do not agree. Physicians may order CD57 levels because they are looking for evidence to support the diagnosis. I do not think this approach will not hold up to careful scrutiny. Many patients unfortunately are getting the awful 13 band test performed at "mill labs." Patients don't want to spend the money to get a decent Lyme test. I do throw out a wide net looking for a variety of markers associated with Lyme disease. I could argue that the vitamin D reversal pattern, a possible marker of the Th1 response, is a much better screen for patients with Lyme disease and other chronic intracellular infections.
I have seen recent published statements claiming that it is not known how CD57 and Lyme are associated. My research shows otherwise. (If you could follow any of what I said about it). However, in my opinion and experience, this marker has not been clinically useful.
posted
thanks, thats interesting stuff, but this is more like explaining the cd57 itself than an idea how to increase or to deal with a very low one.
one thing is clear, i need to get my IS working better.
i just read that cd57 goes down if you are in the mid of a herxheimer. and i AM herxing a lot on ketek and flagyl at the moment. maybe thats the explanation and maybe cd57 will raise up in 2 or 3 month of ongoing treatment, we ll see... but this is only a thought..
Posts: 140 | From Germany | Registered: Feb 2011
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nefferdun
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 20157
posted
"I could argue that the vitamin D reversal pattern, a possible marker of the Th1 response, is a much better screen for patients with Lyme disease and other chronic intracellular infections."
What does that mean?
That is a very low CD57 nanaaa. Mine dropped to 37 which was alarming as it had been in the high 50's.
-------------------- old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot Posts: 4676 | From western Montana | Registered: Apr 2009
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posted
at which point of time did it went down? maybe during a herx? would be good to hear if others had the same experience during a herx, would be good for my mood (taht i know everything is ok)
or was it after or before treatment?
Posts: 140 | From Germany | Registered: Feb 2011
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steve1906
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 16206
posted
I think the key is to Strengthen Your Immune System.
Here's 12 Strategies to do that:
Infections are as inevitable as death and taxes. You spend your first years catching (or being caught by) colds, influenza and strep throat. You sniffle, scratch, cough, vomit, ache, sweat and shiver. Your immune system remembers the microbes it has encountered and protects you the next go around.
At the other end of life, your immune system wearies from years of fighting. In that great expanse of active, productive life in between, you still get colds and flus and �stomach bugs.� You may wonder why you are sick more or less often than your partner, co-workers and neighbors. You may wonder why one person hacking on the airplane successfully sickens the passenger to his right but not the one to his left. The answer is that not all immune systems function alike. A number of factors affect immune system health. Some you can�t control: The very young and the very old are vulnerable.
Surgery and wounds give microbes a chance to sneak into the inner sanctum. Other risks include chronic disease, poverty, stress, living with lots of other people (dormitories, low-income housing), and drinking tap water (with its local microbes) in many foreign countries. Fortunately, there are ways you can strengthen your immune system.
1: Eat Like Peter Rabbit. Malnutrition impairs immune function. French fries, soft drinks and bourbon don�t build strong white blood cells either. No, it�s those virtuous, self-righteous diets high in fruits, vegetables and nuts that promote immune health, presumably because they�re rich in nutrients the immune system requires. Adequate protein intake is also important; the source can be plant or animal.
Medicinal mushrooms such as shiitake, maitake and reishi contain beta-glucans (complex carbohydrates) that enhance immune activity against infections and cancer and reduce allergies (cases of inappropriate immune system activity). While studies have focused on purified mushroom extracts, fresh shiitake and maitake (also called �hen of the woods�) mushrooms are delicious saut�ed in a little olive oil.
One substance to avoid is simple sugar. Brigitte Mars, herbalist and author of The Desktop Guide to Herbal Medicines, notes that sugary foods and juices impair immune function; research bears her out.
If you�re a new mother, breast milk provides essential nutrients and immune system components to your developing child. Compared with formula-fed babies, those nourished at the breast have fewer serious infections.
2: Stress Less. When you�re stressed, your adrenal glands churn out epinephrine (aka, adrenaline) and cortisol. While acute stress pumps up the immune system, grinding long-term duress taxes it. For instance, psychological stress raises the risk for the common cold and other viruses. Less often, chronic stress can promote a hyper-reactive immune system and aggravate conditions such as allergies, asthma and autoimmune disease.
While most of us can�t move into a spa, we can learn to save our stress responses for true emergencies and not fire them up over stalled traffic, bad hair days and aphids on the begonias. Stress-reducing activities such as meditation produce positive changes in the immune system. Massage has shown to improve immune function in studies of Dominican children with HIV. Quiet music can aid recovery from everyday hassles and may therefore buttress immune function.
3: Move Your Body. Moderate exercise discharges tension and stress and enhances immune function. In a 2006 study, researchers took 115 obese, sedentary, postmenopausal women and assigned half of them to stretching exercises once a week and the other half to at least 45 minutes of moderate-intensity exercise five days a week. At the end of the year-long study, the stretchers had three times the rate of colds as the moderate-exercise group.
4: Sleep Soundly. Sleep is a time when growth-promoting and reparative hormones knit up the raveled sleeve of daily life. Sleep deprivation activates the stress response, depresses immune function and elevates inflammatory chemicals (which cause you to feel ill).
Chronic sleep deprivation raises the risk of the common cold. Mothers whose small children interrupt their sleep have more respiratory infections, particularly if those wee ones go to day care. In one study, after researchers inoculated volunteers� noses with cold viruses (a reward was involved), men and women who habitually slept less than seven hours a night were almost three times more likely to develop a cold than those who slept eight hours or more.
5: Socialize More. People with richer social lives enjoy better health and longevity than loners do. You may think that the more people you interact with, the more chances you have for picking something up. Not so. Again, researchers blew cold viruses up people�s noses and sent them into the world. Compared with the lone wolves, the social butterflies were less susceptible to developing common colds, and, if they did get sick, they had fewer symptoms for a shorter period of time.
Many of us count furred and feathered companions as friends, and it turns out they do us a world of good. Animals such as dogs and horses get us outside exercising. Stroking an animal stirs feelings of well-being, lowers blood pressure and, according to recent research, boosts the immune system. Researchers assigned college students to pet either a stuffed dog or a live dog. Those who petted a real dog had a significant increase in levels of salivary IgG, an antibody (immune protein) that fights infection. Those who petted the stuffed dog just felt silly.
6: Make more love. While having lots of friends is healthy, science also shows that intimate, sexual relationships have immune system perks. Michael Castleman, renowned health writer and publisher of Great Sex After 40, writes, �A 2004 study shows that the close contact of lovemaking reduces the risk of colds.� Specifically, this study found that college students who had sex once or twice a week had 30 percent more salivary IgA antibody than those who had sex infrequently.
7: Shun Tobacco Smoke. Tobacco smoke triggers inflammation, increases respiratory mucus, and inhibits the hairlike projections inside your nose (cilia) from clearing that mucus. Children and adults exposed to tobacco smoke are more at risk for respiratory infections, including colds, bronchitis, pneumonia, sinusitis and middle ear infections.
8: Consume Friendly Bacteria. Beneficial microorganisms colonize our intestinal, lower urinary and upper respiratory tracts. They outcompete bad �bugs� and enhance immune function. You can consume such bacteria in the form of live-cultured products such as yogurt, sauerkraut and kimchi. Probiotic supplements, available at natural food stores, may reduce the risk of antibiotic-induced diarrhea, viral diarrhea, vaginitis and respiratory infections.
9: Expose Yourself. Vitamin D plays a number of roles in promoting normal immune function. Vitamin D deficiency correlates with asthma, cancer, several autoimmune diseases (e.g., multiple sclerosis), and susceptibility to infection (including viral respiratory infections). One study linked deficiency to a greater likelihood of carrying MRSA (methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus) in the nose.
Unfortunately, nearly one-third of the U.S. population is vitamin D deficient. Because few foods contain much vitamin D, your best bet is to regularly spend short periods of time in the sun (without sunscreen), and to take supplements in northern climes during the colder months. Guidelines for the Recommended Daily Allowance (RDA) of vitamin D, currently set at 400 IU/day, are being revised. Experts predict that the new RDA will be about 1,000 IU/day (25 ug/day).
10: Choose Vitamin and Mineral Supplements Wisely. Studies link deficiencies of zinc, selenium, folic acid, and vitamins A, B6, C, D and E to reduced immune function. But scientists have yet to pinpoint exact levels of these nutrients for optimal immune function, much less whether dietary supplementation really helps the average, well-fed American. For instance, research on vitamin C for prevention and treatment of the common cold has been inconclusive. Some micronutrients, notably vitamin A, can be toxic in overdose. Excessive levels of zinc paradoxically suppress immune function. A varied, plant-based diet and a good multivitamin supplement should meet your needs
11: Immunize Yourself. Routine vaccinations have had a huge impact on reducing, and in many cases nearly eradicating, a number of infectious diseases. Most immunizations occur during childhood. Vaccinations for adults to consider include yearly influenza vaccines, tetanus boosters, the shingles vaccine for people 60 and up, and the pneumococcus vaccine for people over the age of 65. For more information, check with the Centers for Disease Control.
12: Familiarize Yourself With Immune-Enhancing Herbs. A long list of medicinal plants contain chemicals that enhance immune system activity, including echinacea, eleuthero (also called Siberian ginseng), ginseng (Asian and American), astragalus, garlic, and shiitake, reishi and maitake mushrooms.
Garlic is the favorite choice of many. In addition to boosting the immune system, it�s anticancer and antimicrobial against a variety of bacteria, viruses, fungi and parasites. Key ingredients don�t survive cooking, so add a clove or two of raw, minced garlic to meals just before serving.
When someone in my family sniffles, I make an immune soup based on a recipe Brigitte Mars shared with me years ago:
Pretend you�re making chicken soup. Saut� onions, shiitake mushrooms and chicken, adding just enough water to keep the chicken from drying out.
Remove the chicken when it�s cooked and set aside. Add fresh vegetables such as carrots and celery. Cover with plenty of water. Toss in three or four astragalus roots (the pressed roots, available in natural foods stores or from online herb retailers such as Mountain Rose Herbs and Pacific Botanicals). Toward the end of cooking, add Italian seasonings (thyme, rosemary, oregano), which are tasty and antimicrobial, and the chopped, cooked chicken. Before serving, add fresh, pressed garlic (one to two cloves per person) and remove the astragalus roots.
The Hygiene Hypothesis Some people respond to front-page news about microbes � bird flu, flesh-eating bacteria, pathogenic E. coli � with excessive soap, water and hand-sanitizer use, along with avoidance of fun activities such as dining out, hugging dogs, camping, French kissing and mud wrestling. But the science says to get a little dirty. Some exposure to �germs� will mature and strengthen your immune system.
Some experts even point to evidence that an over-sanitized environment is bad for your health, increasing the risk of allergic, autoimmune and inflammatory conditions. The so-called Hygiene Hypothesis posits that exposure to microbes early in life flexes and shapes the immune system to do what it was designed to do, like fight off the ebola virus.
Growing up in an ultra-clean environment, though, may produce an immune system that attacks innocuous things (animal dander, ragweed pollen, your own cells), leading to chronic inflammation. In support of that hypothesis, children who grow up in larger families (blessed with germy siblings), live in the country (around barnyard animals), or attend day care have lower rates of conditions such as asthma, hay fever and eczema.
On the other hand, improved sanitation (along with vaccinations and antibiotics) has clearly decreased the death rate from infections and lengthened our lives. Infections, however, continue to challenge us, which means that the Hygiene Hypothesis (and other immunity-boosting practices) remains a hot topic in immunology circles.
-------------------- Everything I say is just my opinion! Posts: 3529 | From Massachusetts Boston Area | Registered: Jul 2008
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posted
just read your thread. already tried all of the states herbs and vitamins in tons for long periods of time, for more than 2 years. didnt help me. :-/
Posts: 140 | From Germany | Registered: Feb 2011
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steve1906
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 16206
posted
Any other thoughts for the members having a hard time with this?
-------------------- Everything I say is just my opinion! Posts: 3529 | From Massachusetts Boston Area | Registered: Jul 2008
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posted
I have been doing a lot of reading on Chlorella and it has amazing immune stimulating properties.
Posts: 253 | From CA | Registered: Jun 2011
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My hormone doctor suggested them and said he had read some good things about them. They are pricey but everything about lyme seems to be pricey.
If you want to consider them I suggest calling the woman. She would be able to tell you the dosage for lyme. They sell a larger size bottle then what they show on their website and one with lyme would need that. They also usually sell their product through doctors but since my doctor wasnt interested in being a distributor she was willing to sell them to me directly.
Posts: 832 | From Somewhere | Registered: Nov 2010
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posted
thats something good new! i ll check if i can get them in germany somewhere. the prob is, if i order at your suggested store, the customs will take the delivery away 99 % :-(
Posts: 140 | From Germany | Registered: Feb 2011
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posted
did anyone take their products, which resulsts did you have? i just talked to them and they said they had no problems in sending it to germany
Posts: 140 | From Germany | Registered: Feb 2011
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posted
I have an appt with my doctor in June. I am going to ask about going on it. The woman claims it doesn't interfere with abx.
There are a lot of technical papers on her website. My Lyme brain has improved somewhat so I may start going through them.
If you decide to try it let us know how it works. I think it might take a while. for some reason I think you have to build up to a maintenance dose (so it eventually becomes less expensive)
Posts: 832 | From Somewhere | Registered: Nov 2010
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posted
You probably figured this out but the website I suggested is the distributor. She prefers to sell through a doctor. My doctor while was impressed with her product didn't want to be a distributor. Once I talked to his office and confirmed that, she was willing to sell to me. that is where it ended. I didn't buy anything.
Posts: 832 | From Somewhere | Registered: Nov 2010
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posted
yeah, i ll see what i ll be doing, im still hoping for other thoughts! i ll let you know if i buy those mushrooms
Posts: 140 | From Germany | Registered: Feb 2011
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posted
i think i have to start a new thread for immune modulation...
Posts: 140 | From Germany | Registered: Feb 2011
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Cass A
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11134
posted
There was a question asked here that wasn't answered: What is the REVERSE Vitamin D test?
There is a situation with chronic illness where the Vitamin D (the supplement kind) tests LOW, but the active Vitamin D (D 1,25-OH) tests in the TOXIC range! This happened with me!
Many of my symptoms really flared up when I started taking large doses of Vitamin D 3 supplements! Including tinnitus, which has never gone away in over 10 years.
These is a therapy based on this scene called the Marshall Protocol. I have not done it myself, although I have used parts of it with good results. I stopped taking Vit. D, was more careful to use highly effective sunscreen, and got the NoIR glasses. Even these small changes have helped me.
My LLND, Dr. W.A., had a lot of Lyme patients on it, then took them off and put them on the Dr. B protocol.
Marshall has recently stated that his protocol is not very effective on chronic Lyme. It is quite effective on treating other chronic intra-cellular diseases, according to his research. There is a thread here at LymeNet about the MP--or maybe more than one by now!
However, I would really, really recommend that people don't just get into taking Vit. D supplements!
Hope this helps!
Best,
Cass A
Posts: 1245 | From Thousand Oaks, CA | Registered: Feb 2007
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Sammi
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 110
posted
Many of the top Lyme doctors do not run the CD57 test. Personally, I think it is more important to do everything you can to get the best treatment possible.
"...There generally is some degree of fluctuation of this count over time, and the number does not progressively increase as treatment proceeds. Instead, it remains low until the LB infection is controlled, and then it will jump..."
Posts: 4681 | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
yy i know and focus completeley on treatment. i researched soooo many things. why not search for something to up the cd57 now, i want to treat everything, at least trying.
Posts: 140 | From Germany | Registered: Feb 2011
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