Topic: If you didn't have symptoms, would you still treat?
Catgirl
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posted
My husband just got clinically diagnosed for lyme. He had one positive (band 23) and 2 other ind. I have all three bands, which are positive. the doc said 23 is definitely lyme.
My husband never goes outside (loves his computer), so I think he got it from me. The thing is, he doesn't have one single symptom. We got him tested to use as a benchmark. It turns out his cd 57 is low too. Yet the guy feels great. I am sad that he has it, but so happy he doesn't have all the cos I do.
He doesn't know if he wants to open this can of worms yet (meaning, start treatment). He has seen how much my diet has changed, and what the abx did to me (yeast).
His doc said that lyme grows so slowly that he may not have symptoms for many years. He was IGM for RMSF though. I can't remember but thing IGM represents a new infection.
What would you do?
-------------------- --Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together). Posts: 5418 | From earth | Registered: Mar 2011
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posted
We were in the exact same situation a few weeks ago.
My husband had zero symptoms but decided to test anyway on the advise of my LLMD. It came back positive.
We decided to treat. He is on 8 weeks of doxy and will add flagyl to the last 2 weeks.
My LLMD advised that it is best to treat because otherwise your husband could pass it back to you after you have treated.
I was so worried that when I got better that I would get it again from my husband.
Hope that helps some.
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Tammy N.
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I would not treat either. Why tamper with his immune system? He obviously has a good immune system that is doing it's job.
It's impossible to get rid of every last bug anyway. So as long as he's healthy and ahead of it, I would let it be.
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Keebler
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posted
- [Well, I somehow managed to delete my first post by accident.]
I posted in favor of NOT treating in the absence of symptoms.
I think birdie67 was writing at the same time as I and, after reading hers, I see some good points made in favor of treating when one is in a couple.
I might be inclined to reconsider my view - and get advice of LLMDs, who, in birdie's case, have good reason to suggest treating.
If done, the protective measures can make all the difference in the world. Still, Rx can be so harsh and cause damage of their own, even with protective measures.
I wonder if RIFE might not be the best approach. That way, no Rx would be needed, only support methods for liver, adrenals, etc..
But, whatever clobbering is done, regardless, it could make things worse.
Whatever the decision, though, I sure hope your husband starts getting outside and finds some enjoyable activities besides computer. Just strolling is nice and very helpful.
And there is never a way around a good food plan. Just remember that it can be delicious and satisfying. You, yourself, should not have to feel deprived. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
My LLMD advised that if we were not in a intimate relationship, it would not be as important to treat.
Because they feel that Lyme can be sexually transmitted, he feels that is is best to treat as to not reinfect the other.
My LLMD said there is no documented proof that lyme can be spread sexually but most LLMDs do think that it can.
My husband has done totally fine on treatment so far. He just has to be careful in the sun but otherwise no symptoms have come up.
I understand this can be a tough decision.
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Keebler
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- Birdie,
Re: intimate relationship
So glad you pointed that out, that's the part that has me reconsidering my view.
Another thought: a lot of people take antibiotics and feel better - most don't feel worse. I think that those of us who went so very long without proper diagnoses have a worse reaction.
Clearly, this does bring up thoughts from all angles. But I'd opt for RIFE & nutrient support.
Suppose a heavy metals test would be good BEFORE ANY treatment that might be started.
As lyme is killed off, heavy metals, viruses, parasites can be released. Maybe not so much in someone who is doing well to begin with but it's sure worth exploring that. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
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Member # 12673
posted
- This new test may be a good idea to help with the decision. Detail about that new Borrelia Culture Test here:
posted
I was in the same situation no symptoms what so ever....UNITL I woke up with Bells Palsy.
I took ABX for 6mths and had no other symptoms, no herx at all. I was very careful to control diet/yeast.
It is a tough decision, but I would hate for it to show up later in life if you can put it down early.
Posts: 52 | From Illinois | Registered: Nov 2009
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Keebler
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posted
- Catgirl,
I would not think your husband got lyme from you just because he does not go outside.
You say he "was IGM for RMSF though"
Unless you also have RMSF in your system, then he likely has been bitten by tick. That same RMSF tick could well have transmitted lyme at the same time.
I'm not sure of the meaning of IgM with RSMF but if he decides to treat for lyme, I hope the LLMD would also keep an eye out, considering that RMSF history.
You could have gotten lyme from him rather than the other way around - or not.
While I do think various infections can be shared during intimacy, it really does not matter after the fact as, most likely, you've both been bitten by ticks at some time.
It would be nearly impossible to know for sure unless you recall a particular bite prior to illness. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
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posted
- Promise I'll give you back your thread after this last post.
Were I to be in your husband's shoes, Along with RIFE, I would consider either of the two plans below . . . or maybe rotate.
That you say he never goes outdoors seems to pull at me. I'm homebound and can't really even go out for a walk or on my apt. deck to the busy & noisy neighborhood (balance, hyperacusis & startle seizures are best managed without all that).
I do have a beautiful view from my patio, though. But I long to move about in fresh air, amid no buildings, no roads.
So, maybe I have this image of you in a tidy neighborhood where you could sit in your yard to read or go for a walk, at least.
Still, Vitamin D is essential to his being able to skip through this. Sooner or later, if he really is indoors all the time, that's going to catch up with him.
Now is the time of year where we can start replenishing and storing some Vitamin D. The best is from the sun - just 20 minutes or so a day with no sunscreen.
No glasses helps, too, as our eyes don't make all the good chemicals from the day light with glasses or contacts in the way. Day light (even in the shade) is all that is needed, best not to look toward the sun directly, anyway.
Of course, if DOXY is used, SUN is OUT of the picture.
Hmmm. Never WANTING to go outdoors? Is that a not a symptom of feeling unwell? Really, it's natural to WANT to do go out. It's what humans enjoy.
Tell him he need not drop his clothes to romp and frolic about but there's one poster here who hopes he can enjoy being out of the house - because I can't, I just want others to be able to enjoy that other world out there. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Catgirl
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posted
You all bring up some really good points. Keebler, I do have RMSF. I also have babs, bart, myco, and a high HHV6. His HHV6 turned up high too. Plus, the titers that popped up on him (even though ind), and the one positive, are the same ones I have.
I have tried for years to get my husband to go outside. He is just one of those guys that loves movies (TV) and his computer. It's just something I have had to accept about him. Maybe he has some vampire genes (ha ha). So, I know he didn't get it from outside.
I however, used to love to go on walks and LOVE to garden. I haven't done any since getting diagnosed (too many co infections). I guess it's possible I brought the ticks inside and they bit him too. We'll never know for sure. But looking at our history, you just have to wonder.
The rife is a good idea. I didn't think about that one. Do you think he could still pass it to me while rifing?
My cd57 shot up a lot a few mos ago. I feel better, but I still have co infections. I guess I just don't want us giving it back and forth to each other (or increasing each others bacterial load).
I am surprised he has the RMSF and the exact same titers. For someone who doesn't go outside, I think we could be a good example of passing lyme and possibly cos onto spouses. I recently asked my doc about passing co infections onto partners, and he didn't think it was likely. I wonder what he will say now (see him in a few weeks).
-------------------- --Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together). Posts: 5418 | From earth | Registered: Mar 2011
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Carol in PA
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No symptoms? Don't treat, at least not with antibiotics.
Do things to strengthen the immune system, as your white blood cells are the ones that will need to kill the bacteria when they find them in the bloodstream.
Eat well. Get enough sleep.
Cat's claw is an herb that will strengthen the response of the white blood cells to foreign bacteria.
Supplemental magnesium will help to replace the mag that the Lyme bacteria uses up while living in our muscle and nerve cells. Low magnesium causes many of the Lyme symptoms.
Pharmaceutical quality fish oil will help to reduce the inflammation. Inflammation is an immune response to infection.
Systemic enzymes will reduce the fibrin that builds up and protects bacteria from detection by the white blood cells. (biofilm, slime) More fibrin in the blood is a response by the immune system to chronic infection, and this can result in hypercoagulation. Hypercoagulation causes many symptoms, such as pain, headache, fatigue.
Posts: 6956 | From Lancaster, PA | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
My question is if you do treat, how do you know when to stop? With those of us with symptoms we know to stop 3 or so months after symptom free. For those who have no symptoms, how long should treatment be?
Posts: 27 | From Cn | Registered: Apr 2012
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posted
Did your llmd say how long treatment for him would be if he decided to use antibiotics?
Posts: 27 | From Cn | Registered: Apr 2012
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Catgirl
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posted
Well, that's a good question. LLMD is also testing him for myco (I have that one too). If he has myco, I think you have to treat for at least six mos with that co infection. So we are getting more blood tests done on him before he decides what to do.
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Sammi
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Which bands are indeterminate on your husband's test? A large majority of people who have Lyme do not know when they were bitten.
Based on having band 23 positive, I would treat. It is good that he does not have symptoms now. Because of this, he will likely respond well to treatment.
Others have brought up a good point about passing it back to you if he is not treated.
Knowing what I know now, I would not leave an infection like Lyme brewing untreated. Anything that might suppress his immune system could bring out symptoms at any time. The sooner it is treated, the better.
Good luck with your decision.
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lyme in Putnam
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DONT DO IT. dr. J. Told me about my son, why waken the beast?
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17hens
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posted
I agree with Carol.
My husband and son, who had multiple symptoms of lyme, bart, babesia, but were NOT sick, both treated and nothing changed. Nothing. Symptoms were still there. Only immune system was down after abx treatment.
If we could do it again, we would have done herbs instead.
-------------------- "My flesh and my heart may fail, but God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever." Psalms 73:26
bit 4/09, diagnosed 1/10 Posts: 3043 | From PA | Registered: Dec 2009
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Lauralyme
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How about doing heavy metal chelation? Some people who have caught their lyme early enough have gone into remission from that alone.
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Lymedin2010
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I vote for treatment, but not just any treatment. �It has to be the right combo of ABX, such as Doxy, Biaxin and Flagyl that can hit multiple forms and in high doses.
After treatment for 1yr wait a few weeks for deeply hidden ones to come out and attack them again for 1-3 months, repeat this 3-4 times.
I am a little ticked off when people question the spread of Lyme via sexual contact. �I've heard story after story of partners falling sick behind one another. �The first of the partners being bit, while the second not liking the outdoors as much. �LLMD are confirming this.
I KNEW I had something in me in 2005, but though it may be a virus. �I was not sick, only always feeling tired and never really feeling energetic. �I also though that my red petachia skin spots were also a result of this. �When I asked the doctors about the spots they said it was normal, but deep inside I knew better. �I always felt that most doctors were robotic idiots that had become doctors first and foremost for the money. �There are few true doctors who do it for the passion and compassion of people, and for the sake of new discoveries.
At that time I assumed it was some virus passed by Mosquitos, since I had gotten bit by Mosquitos many times. �Never did I even think of the tick that bit me in 1995. �I always associated Lyme to arthritic and joint issues. �My wife and I were busy with school and then new jobs, not much time for any outdoor activities in the woods or even grass for that matter.
I also noticed my wife becoming more like me and we lived in an apt in NY with cement everywhere. �I predicted that she had gotten the virus ( I though) from me and that she would become more tired over time. �
Fast forward to 2012 and I am now very sick and she has gotten even more tired and she only works 3 days out of the week. She's had countless headaches, twitches, tremors, womanly pains too, but she believes that she is Vit D deficient only (as her tests have shown). �
She even had an air hunger/breathless episode once. �She is a Nurse and is VERY stubborn and denies what I tell her. �She is a very good candidate for the IDSA and the CDC. �The only thing I tested positive for was C. Pneumonia and high antibodies of a past Mono infection.
Borrelia Burdorferi is just like the syphilis bacteria, and can readily enter ANY tissue and organ in your body. �Think of the mode of transmission in nature and contemplate how READILY available BB must be for a Small tick to bite ANY body area and consume a relatively SMALL blood amount. �It has to be systemic!
This is exactly what I see when I look at a blood smear of my blood AND my wifes blood. �I can readily find the spirochete in various forms in the blood plasma. �BB can be found exiting the RBC, but without the proper dyes I cannot see them within the RBC's, so I can't even imagine the load in the RBC and various tissues, such as muscle tissues.
Posts: 2094 | From NY | Registered: Oct 2011
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posted
I wouldn't treat either....I was actually feeling okay last year but ended up with a paralyzed vocal cord. Doctor felt it could be Bartonella again so wanted to treat me. since then I have done nothing but get worse. My sleep is worse than ever...my head feels strange all the time...I cry uncontrollably and get totally exhausted at work.
If I had to do it over again I would have left it all alone and just waited to see what happened. As of now I am going to discontinue treatment since I have a month of hell coming up at work and need to be there..
I would give anything to feel like I did last fall.....not perfect but livable.
Posts: 343 | From North Carolina | Registered: Oct 2008
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Keebler
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Member # 12673
posted
- My main concern is the liver and the ear damage that can occur from antibiotics. They can be very, very damaging.
Now, that's not highlighted for us as lyme trumps all that in its severe neuro-toxicity and potential for damage (even death) so it must be treated assertively -
- that is why so many LLMDs work hard to share with us how to best protect our livers, with nutrition and supplements, etc.
But, the reality is that many Rx, not just abx, are toxic and can damage the entire ear & balance system - and the liver (and maybe kidneys).
Unless absolutely necessary (as with active infection), it's not a risk I would consider.
Hepatitis can result from many Rx, included abx. Even the best liver support is not always enough.
There are many other methods for solid support to help maintain that current level of heartiness. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
You could go your entire life with dormant Lyme. Leave it that way.
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Catgirl
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Member # 31149
posted
There are some really good ideas here (passing this info onto my husband).
And Keeb, I never thought of the liver thing. My husband loves his beer on the weekends, so the liver thing would be a big deal for him. He basically eats what I cook (lyme diet) 5 or 6 days a week, then on the weekend (or when he has to travel), he eats and drinks whatever he wants.
My husband comes from good stock (strong, healthy family). I however have lots of auto immune in my family history.
He does have a circular rash on his head (he has had it for at least 10 years, maybe more) though. It's never bothered him, and none of our pcps over the years have known what to do with it, much less diagnose it.
So if he leaves everything alone and doesn't treat, then it's possible he could increase my bacterial load while I'm busy trying to lower mine. But then again, lyme grows slowly. But then there are the co infections. He does have RMSF.
This is so tough.
-------------------- --Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together). Posts: 5418 | From earth | Registered: Mar 2011
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