Topic: Have any of you used Ivermectin on your cats? (my doc wants us to give cats away)
Tammy N.
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We want/need to treat all of us in the house...my husband, myself and our 3 cats.
I'm a little nervous about possible side effects. I know if doseages are not correct, it can cause blindness, seizures, etc. Our vet knows little about the use of ivermectin in cats so we will be purchasing the medicine online. It is the only medicine that truly seems to be broad-spectrum.
After initial treatment, we want to do monthly maintenance as well. I want to gather as much knowledgeable input as I can.
I know it is not ideal to have cats with this dreaded disease that we have, but I cannot imagine giving them away at this point. Very hard to even imagine. Yet I fully understand the importance. We've made a lot of changes in that they never to into our bedroom anymore. We also change clothes before going to bed, and wash our hands EVERY time we touch them. Being as careful as we can. Because of this stupid disease, we were robbed of the chance of having children. Our cats are our kids.
Thanks, Tammy
P.S. My doc does not think we should have cats with my condition.
[ 04-26-2012, 05:59 PM: Message edited by: Tammy N. ]
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nefferdun
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I don't understand why you are so paranoid about your cats. Just because you are infected does not mean that they are and even if they do have lyme, they cannot transmit it directly to anyone. Maybe a strain of bartonella could be transmitted but that is not killed with ivermectin.
If they don't exhibit any signs of illness, then don't treat them without the vet's permission. It can kill collies so you need more information before you know it is safe for cats.
Are they indoor cats? If so, they don't need any kind of wormer after their initial worming as kittens for round worms, which are transmitted via the placenta. Adult cats that are outdoors and hunt mice get tapeworms but that requires a different wormer than ivermectin.
You really don't have to worry about the cats giving you worms. Most parasites are species specific. There is so much hysteria about worms on here. I took ivermectin for two weeks because of FL1953, not worms. I never saw one worm or any indication of worms.
-------------------- old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot Posts: 4676 | From western Montana | Registered: Apr 2009
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Tammy N.
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Hi neff,
From what I've been learning, having cats is a bigger deal than most of us realize. (Dr. K has long said cats are not good for chronically ill patients.)
My brother in law is a non-practicing vet (he's on the research side). He is very loving, and the type of person who never interferes out of place. Well, he had a very direct conversation with my husband and I about my health situation and his concerns. He said having cats is a very important issue because they carry all sorts of parasites, etc.. And even if you wash your hands, etc. he said you can unknowingly inhale the eggs while holding the cats. And cleaning the litter is another issue (which now my husband does exclusively). In vet school he had 2 entire semesters on parasites alone. It is a big issue. He feels strongly that we should not keep the cats, and that my life is more important. But he understands how we feel about our babies, and is not being overly pushy. But he stated his case clearly. And he is pushing treatment for all of us. He is greatly concerned because he understands what parasites can do.
Coming from someone who is gentle, soft-spoken and non-interfering, we were moved enough to realize we need to do EVERYTHING we can to make things safe for me/us (short of giving them away).
Some vets who understand the importance of the parasite picture recommend treating pets at least twice per year. Others say monthly. Even indoor cats can pick them up at any time, one way or another. Apparently, it's common.
To top things off.... our cats seems to have odd health issues. I'll spare the details because it can get long-winded. Anyway, we think for them, and for us, it's a good idea to treat. But I want to do it as safely as possible.
BTW - I'm about to re-start Ivermectin myself. Last time I was on it, I saw the worms being expelled. I know I've got a problem with this.
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sammy
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Tammy, did you ask your brother how he thought that your indoor cats were getting reinfected with parasites? I don't understand this?
I have indoor cats and like you said, they are my family. I love them so much! I'll be honest, one even sleeps in bed with me. She's like my little kitty guardian angel, she worries if I'm ever out of her sight.
I would find a way to treat my cats safely but I would never get rid of them.
Since your vet is unfamiliar with this kind of parasite treatment, would your brother consider to helping you find the right medications and doses for your individual cats?
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sparkle7
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I wouldn't blame the cats... If the parasite eggs are so small they can be inhaled - they are everywhere anyway. It's not like there are no stray outdoor cats, as well as, racoons, opposoms, skunks, birds, squerrils, etc.
Maybe we should just not eat, breathe, or drink water, too? - it would probably be better for our health.
I know this vet is a family menber but I don't think getting rid of your pets whom you love is going to really cure you at this point.
There are lists of drugs you can give cats to get rid of parasites. Don't give the cat anything that is not safe.
I'll post a list I just sent to my sister...
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sparkle7
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This product has been on the veterinary and human market longer than any other. It is effective only against roundworm and must be given several times. Piperazine will only kill roundworms that are living in the cat�s intestine. Those that are still migrating there are immune to its action. There is really no sense in giving it because cats that have roundworms often also have hookworms as well and this medication has no effect on hookworms at all. (ref)
Pyrantel Pamoate = Nemex, Strongid, etc
This is a great, safe product for removing roundworms and hookworms. It is inexpensive, and easy to administer. In the correct dose, it is safe to give to pregnant and very young animals. One dose is rarely enough to remove every parasite.
Fenbendazole = Panacur, Strongid, etc
Fenbendazole kills many more species of parasites than pyrantel pamoate. It may be a better choice when diarrhea is suspected to be due to intestinal parasites but the identity of those parasites is unknown. Three consecutive days of treatment are generally required. It is labeled for dogs but frequently given to cats.
Praziquantel = Droncit, etc
This medication kills only tapeworms. It is extremely effective in doing so. It can be given orally or by injection. I prefer to inject it because then I am certain the pet did not spit it out or vomit it later. It should not be given to kittens under 4 weeks of age and I use it cautiously in debilitated animals of any age.
Praziquantel/pyrantel pamoate/febantel (Drontal Plus, etc) NOT FOR CATS This combination kills a wide variety of intestinal parasites. The febantel portion is particularly effective in killing whipworms. It is not yet available for use in cats because , cats do not tolerate febantel as well as dogs. Also, the pyrantel portion of the dog tablet is too low for cats. Drontal cat tablets contain no febantel.
Epsiprantel = Cestex�
This medication, like praziquantel, is also effective against tapeworms. It appears to be equally effective (100%) as praziquantel in killing tapeworms.
Ponazuril = Marquis Paste�
Some shelters have experimented in the use of this compound in pets to treat coccidiosis. It is approved only for horses. Its chief advantage over other products is its low per-dose cost. Mass puppy producers also us it to control coccidiosis (as a substitute for good sanitation). I have no personal experience using it but your veterinarian can access information on its use in pets through this link. http://sheltermedicine.com/shelter-health-portal/ask-shelter-medicine
Metronidazole = Flagyl
This compound is used to control giardia and , occasionally, to control bacterial overgrowth that accompanies other parasite infections.
Sulfadimethoxine = Albon�
This sulfa medication is given to control coccidiosis. I have not noticed that kittens rid themselves of these parasites any faster when given this medication, but I give it as well to prevent additional intestinal complications and deal with concurrent health issues.
Ivermectin = Ivomec, etc
The bovine (cow) formulation is given subcutaneously to dogs for a variety of parasitic problems � including gastrointestinal parasites. Its chief advantage is its low cost when purchased for livestock.
Ronidazole
This is one of the few effective medications against Tritrichomonas in cats.
What About Natural, Homeopathic, Herbal And Other New Age Worm Medicines I Read About ?
These medications are based on folk remedies that were thought to aid parasitized human beings. That was before people understood enough about the difference between parasite physiology and the physiology of our bodies to select compounds that killed one without injuring the other. It was a time when humans also believed in dragons, unicorns and a sun revolving around the Earth. They knew nothing about sanitation and believed that parasites miraculously appeared in the body. (spontaneous generation)
But there were some that did work. They relied on creating such severe diarrhea that the parasites were flushed out (for example Arecoline) or they were toxic plant compounds given in the hope that the amount necessary to kill the parasite was less than the amount able to kill the human (nicotine, tobacco, wormwood) . Your traditional veterinarian has very safe compounds (vermifuges, paraciticides) today that are much better. They home in on specific weaknesses in the parasites to kill them without hurting your cat.
There is very little reason to resort to these obsolete methods. At best, they will not harm your pet � but they are quite unlikely to cure your pet�s parasite problems either. The ones that cause severe diarrhea (purgatives) can cause problems of their own - such things as rectal prolapse and intestinal intussusceptions.
What Can I Do To Be Sure My Cat Never Gets Worms Again ?
There are two things to be done to prevent your cat from ever having intestinal parasites again. You are safer with a combination of the two rather than either one alone.
Sanitation
Your pets rely on your judgment to prevent their exposure to parasites. If you have read this far, you already know that most of these parasites enter your pet through its mouth from infective eggs, cysts or larva that have exited in the stool of another infected pet. If you minimize your pets exposure to areas where this is likely to happen, you will minimize your pet�s chances of contracting these parasites. So:
Do not let your cat loose outdoors unsupervised.
Do not take your pet to areas frequented by cats and dogs whose parasite status is unknown
Hire pet sitters rather than boarding you dog at kennels or animal hospitals.
Do not bring additional cats of unknown parasite status into your household until they have been wormed several times and their fecal status is negative.
Remove stool promptly. Ware gloves, bag it and place it in your outside trash can
Use covered cat litter trays, clean and empty them frequently
Keep your cat from chewing and playing with objects that can not be easily sanitized or that do not come directly from the store.
Monthly Parasite Preventatives
Sanitation alone is usually sufficient to prevent intestinal parasites in your cat. If it is not, then keeping your cat on a monthly flea/tick/heartworm control product designed to also control intestinal parasites is a very good idea.
These products are all safe � when cat-use is listed on the label. Read the directions on the product insert and follow them carefully. If a particular parasite is a problem, your veterinarian may suggest one of these products over another. Your local veterinarian will also make that decision based on which parasites are most common in your area and the degree of drug resistance that those parasites have attained. Here in South Texas and Florida, my favorite is selamectin because our fleas appear to have become resistant to many products.
If you plan to breed your cat, and it is not on a monthly preventative, worm it several times before breeding and again, with a pregnancy-safe product, just before it gives birth.
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Tammy N.
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sammy - I know how you feel. I feel the same way! Yes, he can help with dose, etc. He said ivermectin because it has been around a long time, tested for safety, etc. But also because it is the most broad-range med you can use. So if they have tapeworm, hookworm, ringworm, roundworm etc. etc it will give the best coverage. He said he also read that it may even cover Babesia. (Plus at some point, I'd also like to check on possibly treating Bartonella with them. Hopefully a natural, homeopathic way.)
My kitties have on and off issues with loose, mucoussy stools (comes and goes). The one kitty often scoots on the rug (gross!) but she can't do that anymore since we now have NO rugs. The other kittie licks himself bald on his lower legs and belly and is constantly licking/biting as if he's itchy. And the third kitty has not been the same since infected fangs were pulled 2 years ago (bothers me terribly). (Again, now thinking Bart). But like I said they go in and out of having funky stools.
Stool tests came back negative in the past, but then again we know not to hold a lot of stock in these tests anyway. Because of all of these oddities, plus my parasite issue, my brother-in-law feels strongly that ivermectin would be best. But I am still researching to be sure. I don't want to cause any problems.
Sparkle. Thanks for the info. I will read thru. He said the eggs can lay on their fur. So if you hold the cat close, like in your arms up by your shoulder (like we do) it would be easy to inhale. Plus their saliva, etc. I imagine is an issue (after they lick their butts, etc.)
Living in the same home, just like with humans, you share the bugs you have.
I just want us all healthy.
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nefferdun
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I have three cats myself and have had as many as five at once so I love them too. One of my cats that died used to watch over me when I was sick, more faithfully than a dog.
Ivermectin does not kill tapeworms in horses so I doubt it would get tapeworms in cats. That is the one parasite that most outdoor cats are constantly re-infected with. They are released as segments and look like a piece of rice. If you have outdoor cats that eat a lot of mice, then they need worming often to get rid of tapeworm.
Here is a link about what worms you can get from a cat. From what I read if you clean your litter box often, you have nothing to worry about. There is something you can get, which is dangerous if you are pregnant.
When animals are licking themselves a lot it is often a sign of allergy because they itch. Changes in diet can cause the loose stools. Cat's are lactose intolerant so if you give them milk, it can make them have loose stools.
Many mammals are born with round worms because they are transferred in the blood to the unborn babies. That is why all puppies and kittens need worming. They keep the eggs in their bodies which have developed an immunity to them, but the eggs are there to be transferred to their offspring, if they have any.
One of my cat's that was adopted at age four had probably never been wormed and vomited them. Pretty bad case. I had no indication of them. I am around horses, cats and dogs. So have my children and my husband. We do not have worms. Vets are around tons of animals and they do not need regular de-worming.
The vet came today to give shots to my horses. She said worming them twice a year is more than enough because they have no exposure to other animals that might have worms. Your cats have no exposure if they are kept indoors.
-------------------- old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot Posts: 4676 | From western Montana | Registered: Apr 2009
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Sammi
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I agree with the others about the importance of pets. I also have cats and don't know what I would do without them. I don't understand the problem of having them, especially if they are indoor cats.
Does your vet say they are infected? If so, with what? Were they tested for parasites? Are they strictly indoors?
If the med you are considering is not typically used in cats, I would not use it. Drugs used for some animals or people are not always safe for other animals. Buying drugs on-line really scares me because of quality issues.
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Lymedin2010
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Why don't you get a UV light and do a search in your house from time to time. Cats leave stains everywhere and yes I agree with your Bro contact is unavoidable.
The best you can do is to try to clean and sterilize often.
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seekhelp
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Is this a Dr. K protege saying you need to do this?
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GiGi
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Toxoplasmosis from cats is quite common and Dr.K. looks for it where indicated. He talks about it in A Look Beyond Lyme in 2005. Cat Scratch Disease, Bartonella, Rickettsiae, Toxoplasmosis gondii are closely related. I would certainly not discount it being a problem, especially when cats are not totally healthy.
Dr. K. insists that if the patient shows signs of parasites/worms, everyone in the household needs to be treated. It does not do any good to be reinfected from within.
I learned to have great respect for parasites because the stories I hear. Dr.K. used to have a cat, so is very familiar with what what can be involved.
Take care.
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Drontal is the No 1 best medicine dewormer for cats and dogs.
I have used Ivermectin on a bird with scaly mite. Worked great would never use it on a dog, or cat as Drontal is said to be the best.
Getting rid of your cats is pretty ridiculous if I can give my opinion. Just treat them with Drontal case closed.
-------------------- HERX is a Four Letter Word! Posts: 716 | From If you're going through hell, keep going......Winston Churchill | Registered: Apr 2007
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MichaelTampa
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I have heard in humans one way we get worms/parasites is from eating food. It turns out a lot of food is grown outside where there are lots of animals from big to small to very small, believe it or not.
It is well known that most pet food is made from the most diseased sources of food, stuff that is judged not good enough for humans. So it would seem that is one place an indoor pet could get infected. There are apparently options that are better than the standard stuff for those willing to pay for it.
Of course, the pet can get infected from the people in the household as well.
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17hens
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How about DE in the food? Just throwing it out there. Have no idea if cat's digestive systems are delicate. I can give DE to my chickens but not safe for my rabbits.
-------------------- "My flesh and my heart may fail, but God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever." Psalms 73:26
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sparkle7
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A huge percentage of people are infected with toxoplasmosis gondii - especially in Germany. It's in meat, especially pork. Most don't even know. So, it's not just from cats.
I agree with MichaelTampa. Parasites are in many kinds of foods - even veggies. Watercress is known to have fluke eggs. It's hard to be cautious about everything but it's just a fact of life that there are alot of parasites around these days.
I don't know if it's more now than ever but it's a big problem. Some people think that the veterans who came back from the Vietnam war brought hidden lungworm which ended up being a cause for CFS.
I don't think you can eradicate the risks of parasites but you can be careful. I love my pets so I wouldn't want to get rid of them.
Now, if I could just have gotten rid of the dentist that put all this mercury in my head when I was 8 - that's a different story...
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Tammy N.
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Thanks for sharing thoughts. I appreciate the input. I will continue to read and weigh things out. Something is telling me to treat them somehow. But I want to do what is most SAFE and effective.
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Tammy N.
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I think I am going to first do the Drontal, and see what happens from there. I will continue to research the safety of Ivermectin. And if we feel we need something more broad-spectrum then the Drontal, then we'll figure out our next step. I don't want to risk causing any problems.
In looking back, I don't think our cats were ever dewormed as kittens. I can't recall?? I've never noticed eggs or worms in their litter box. That's a good thing.
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jackie51
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I got rid of our cat. I think he was responsible for giving my daughter bartonella. I don't remember the statistics, but it's pretty high that even the cats who don't have symptoms, they are definitely carriers of bart.
You have to decide if it's worth it to you. Sounds like you'd rather keep the cat. As long as you know the risks and you're willing to accept that, then fine.
I've spent so much money, so much time and have suffered so much, in addition to watching my children suffer, that the cat had to go. We still have two dogs, but they have minimal contact with the kids.
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Drontal is excellent. If you cats weren't dewormed as kittens, then there is a high chance that they have worms as it is passed on from the mother. Even if you don't see it in the litter box as they can be microscopic.
But the Drontal need only to be used once and it will take care of everything.
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Maya12
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Hey Tammy , just wanted to see if you know about a product called revolution? It treats heart worm, round worm, tape worms, ticks and fleas.
It is both a dewormer , kills ticks and a a preventative of all these. It is given to the pet for 7 months strait to prevent all this. We use it on our 4 dogs from April to October every year and I just had a long chat with my vet and found out it is available for cats too
So I have just started both our cats on it for the summer as well.
Maybe talk to your vet about it. It gives me peace of mind knowing all my pets are on it and don't bring anything in to me
We also de worm them all 2 times a year with another broad spectrum de wormer.
My vet is in the country and deals with horses as well so knows a lot about keeping up with deworming.
Hope this helps as I know I could never give away my pets and though it is expensive will do what I can to keep them from bringing anything in to me.
What I really like about revolution is that as soon as the tick attaches to the pet and tries to bite it is immediately killed by the revolution
We also spray our pets with ceader oil
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jackie51
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We use frontline and heartgard all year round.
We had a neighbor who's kid got bit on January 27. Ended up in the hospital with Rocky Mountain.
You just can't be too careful.
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Ellen101
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We don't have cats, but have 2 dogs. They are a part of our family and even sleep in bed with us. I can't imagine giving one of them away and really puzzled as to why you would see the need to do so.
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Tammy N.
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After further discussion, my vet feels that we should go with Revolution.
Whenever you read possible side effects to anything, it's scary. I feel nervous about doing any of these treatments. But feel I have to. I just couldn't deal with it if a problem arose out of the treatment (my plate is full and I'm at my max).
Maya - how did your cats do? Each of our cats have some odd issues, I don't want this to cause a weird fall-out.
Maybe I should do a half dose this first time. Then next month, do a full-dose???
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