ArtistDi
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 2297
posted
Has anyone had any response--good or bad to this? Also, has anyone had trouble with liver enzymes on this herb? I was reading a case study where a patient developed hepatitis.
Di
Posts: 1567 | From Hatfield, MA, USA | Registered: Mar 2002
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Can you post the link to where you read that someone developed hepatitis from this? I'd really like to read that in context for better understanding.
More likely to get hepatitis from the infections that this is used to treat - or from the wrong form or a counterfeit of this - or various other treatments. Even the wrong dose of acetaminophen can cause hepatitis.
Hepatitis can come from so many different causes. Still, it would help to read the actual account of this.
Those with porphyria can have a harder time with their livers with this. Details are in the thread above. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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ArtistDi
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 2297
Here is the link about the patient acquiring hepatitis from Arteminisin.
Posts: 1567 | From Hatfield, MA, USA | Registered: Mar 2002
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Sammi
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 110
posted
I have had elevated liver enzymes in the past from Lyme.
Zhang's brand Artemisinin helps me a lot, other brands do not. Unfortunately, it is more expensive than other brands. I have used it in conjuntion with other treatments for Babesiosis.
I have never had elevated liver enzymes while taking Artemisinin.
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- ArtistDi,
Thanks so much for that link. Many questions were answered but still a few left unanswered.
1) LIVER & DETOX SUPPORT?
Did the patient drink enough water and generally otherwise support the "detox" process?
When protozoa are killed, the debris has to be cleaned up. This can cause intense "die-off" reactions for anyone. Liver support is essential.
Was liver support also recommended? If so, that was not taken, according to the report of patient taking only artemisinin and a multi-vitamin.
That is very unusual for a ND to not also suggest clear liver support measures. So, was it suggested but not taken?
2) RAMP UP DOSE SLOWLY
- Was a lower starting dose recommended? Usually most NDs start low and slow, ramping up dose. (I've never known one who did not and I've worked with many - and read from many more - over the past 22 years).
3) PORPHYRIA?
Could this be a case of Porphyria (or Secondary Porphyria)?
Other than the possible "die-off" effect of protozoa that can stress ANYONE's liver without liver support methods, could excess porphyrins have caused the hepatitis?
With the stomach pain and DARK URINE (and other symptoms) even BEFORE starting artemisinin, patient could have had elevated porphyrins (Porphyria).
Artemisinin uses the same liver detox pathway (C-P450) that is dysfunctional with porphyria.
Anything else that stresses that pathway (without certain support measures) can further stress the liver.
[I have taken Artemisinin for two 40-day cycles - with good liver support & as part of an overall herbal plan. My liver did very well, and I have two kinds of porphyria. Liver support made all the difference.
Still, this was not the easiest but nothing about treating TBD is. I tolerated Cyptolepis much better.]
I would like to see a report from the actual treating doctor, too. It could answer these loose questions and more that I've not gotten into.
The questions of die-off from the protozoa infection - and possible excess porphyrins - need to be considered here, as well. We do not have all the details.
Of course, make your own decisions along with your health care provider. An ILADS-educated LL ND (naturopathic doctor) is a best for a comprehensive plan that include herbal support. Some LLMDs work along with LL NDs.
Above all: LIVER SUPPORT is absolutely essential at every single step of treatment, whether it's strictly Rx or otherwise. Any of the tick-borne infections, themselves, can cause hepatitis. So can some of the Rx and, of course, it's possible that some supplements might --
but I think we miss the real cause: the liver needing better support during any treatment that stresses the liver. Herxheimer (die-off) is the likely REASON for the liver stress. But you have to treat infections, some how. Support is the key to safety.
Milk Thistle is just one herb known well to offer some of that support.
You might want to search for other thoughts to this case. Here is just one.
. . . Some examples of medications that can lead to hepatitis are isoniazid, halothane, acetaminophen, and certain antibiotics, antimetabolites, and anesthetic agents. . . .
. . .
DRUG-INDUCED HEPATITIS: MANIFESTATIONS AND MANAGEMENT
Medication-induced hepatitis is responsible for up to 25% of cases of fulminant hepatic failure in the United States. . . .
. . . Although any medication can affect liver function, those most commonly associated with liver injury include but are not limited to
anesthetic agents, medications used to trat rheumatic and musculoskeletal disease, antidepressants, psychotropic medications, anticonvulsants, and antituberculosis agents. . . .
- Source: Brunner and Suddharth's Textbook of Medical-Surgical Nursing (Eight Edition), by Suzanne C. Smeltzer and Brenda G. Bare. 1996 Lippincott-Raven Publishers, Pittsburg (p.984).
==========================================
Iatrogenic (drug-caused)
Google: Iatrogenic+hepatitis = 250,000 links
Silymarin (also called Milk Thistle), is one of dozens of hepatoprotective herb (helping to protect and support the liver). One example of its use in cancer treatment:
To explore the use of silymarin as a prophylaxis to iatrogenic hepatic toxicity:
Google: Iatrogenic+hepatitis, silymarin
=======================================
I don't have the link and excerpt in this computer but if you search the CpnHelp site, you will find one of the protocol's doctor explain that:
all the antibiotics used for the Cpn protocol can cause hepatitis. They INSIST on using NAC (N-Acetyl-Cysteine) as a liver protector.
NAC is good, too, as are other methods. A good LN ND would know all about the full range of choices. Many - if not most - LLMDs also have varying degrees of knowledge of this approach.
Cpn protocol is very similar to that for chronic lyme, with a combined antibiotic protocol (CAP).
Remember, too: infections can cause hepatitis. And those infections must be treated, somehow.
Hepaprotective herbs are key to their safe use, IMO.
Where an herb, itself, might stress the liver, a careful balance of the overall protocol can make all the difference.
Still, even with the best care and adjunct approaches, individual responses certainly vary. There are no 100% guarantees with anything once infection has progressed to a certain point.
We all just do our best to cover all the bases.
And a note about the "absolutely no alcohol" rule for those with lyme, whether yet getting treatment or not.
Adding alcohol to infections and to treatment can just kill the liver - and nerve cells - and stomach lining, etc. So, it is a major safety point.
I also wonder if there would be far less liver disease in the general population if doctors would have the courage to tell anyone taking any Rx, don't drink alcohol AT ALL with this or any medicine. -
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