posted
Read in the thread "just saw top lyme neurologist" about this doc saying d3 suppresses the immune system.
Since its not the first time i read this i would like to know if its true?
I asked one of my llmds about it (he wanted me to take it) and he just said it modulates the immune system - which could mean anything.
I got worse on d3, but my wbc was higher. I do get better with sunlight.
Posts: 214 | From Home | Registered: Apr 2011
| IP: Logged |
Ellen101
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 35432
posted
I was just put on high amounts of D3 as my vitimin D level was alarmingly low. So now I'm concerned should I be taking it?
Posts: 1750 | From United States | Registered: Dec 2011
| IP: Logged |
posted
I have heard that Dr. H believes it is better to supplement with D3 if you are low (Marshall Protocol would suggest otherwise)
Posts: 749 | From State full of ticks | Registered: Dec 2008
| IP: Logged |
Bugg
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8095
The above is one of the best explanations of vitamin d and the immune system that I have read....
Posts: 1155 | From Southeast | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged |
poppy
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5355
posted
I did get the impression from that original thread that the neurologist had prescribed vitamin D to suppress the immune system. But if I understand the article posted by Bugg, pretty technical so maybe I don't get it.....then it is more a matter of supplementing a low level which is correlated with these autoimmune diseases. Please correct me if I am wrong.
But it did seem like the dose prescribed by that neurologist was very high.
I have been tested for vitamin D status and am supplementing, at a lower level than that neurologist suggested.
Posts: 2888 | From USA | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
momintexas
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 23391
posted
I'm curious about this too.....although I want to mention that when my Vit D level finally came back up is when I really started to see improvement.
Posts: 1408 | From Tx | Registered: Nov 2009
| IP: Logged |
posted
I hesitate to answer because I may not be able to answer additional question, but this is my understanding of it based on my experience.
If your vitamin D3 receptors sites have bacteria, metals, anything attached to them, you can take all the D3 you want and it will not bind.
It is at that time that it becomes immune suppressive because it is not absorbing. Same for calcium. If you supplement but it can't bind because of toxins it begins to store in other places in your body if you are not a good detoxifier.
Posts: 69 | From Birmingham, AL 35242 | Registered: Sep 2008
| IP: Logged |
Bugg
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8095
posted
Since I'm the one that posted the thread about the neurologist, I think I need to clarify.....apparently if you believe Lyme can cause autoimmune issues like this neurologist does, then you'll want to get your levels between 70-100 to help stop your body from attacking itself. This strategy would want to calm down the immune system.
Some Lyme patients will recover with treatment. In this category I would just make sure my levels were in the normal range. I don't think keeping your d levels in the normal range would suppress your immune system.
Posts: 1155 | From Southeast | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged |
lymetwister
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 19590
posted
D3 makes me Herx or something... Not sure why.
Modulate can mean anything FYI..
Posts: 1227 | From District of Columbia | Registered: Mar 2009
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Bugg: I don't think keeping your d levels in the normal range would suppress your immune system.
- Exactly
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96239 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
| IP: Logged |
Razzle
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 30398
posted
What I know about Vitamin D:
1. Autoimmune diseases correlate strongly with low Vitamin D status. Nobody has been able to explain this sufficiently to satisfy my curiosity as to why this is the case, and the only thing that makes sense to me is if autoimmunity is caused by chronic infections (see point #2, next).
2. Macrophages (cells that digest infectious organisms (including bacteria, viruses, parasites, fungus)) cannot do their job effectively without sufficient Vitamin D. Therefore, a deficiency of Vitamin D causes immune suppression.
3. Vitamin D assists in the absorption of Calcium from the gastrointestinal tract. Therefore, Vitamin D deficiency can lead to osteoporosis.
In my opinion, Marshall Protocol ONLY works if one's 1,25 Vitamin D level is HIGH (doesn't matter whether the 25 OH Vitamin D level is low, normal, or high).
This is because the Marshall Protocol assumes Vitamin D Receptor problems are causing over-conversion of 25 OH Vitamin D to the 1,25 (active) Vitamin D.
If one does not have Vitamin D receptor problems, and does not over-convert Vitamin D (25 OH) to the active form (1,25), then I do not see any benefit to following the Marshall Protocol.
My $.02....
-------------------- -Razzle Lyme IgM IGeneX Pos. 18+++, 23-25+, 30++, 31+, 34++, 39 IND, 83-93 IND; IgG IGeneX Neg. 30+, 39 IND; Mayo/CDC Pos. IgM 23+, 39+; IgG Mayo/CDC Neg. band 41+; Bart. (clinical dx; Fry Labs neg. for all coinfections), sx >30 yrs. Posts: 4167 | From WA | Registered: Feb 2011
| IP: Logged |
posted
That's a good summary Razzle. I supplement D3 and my levels are finally coming up, but a year ago I was getting sick from D3. I went to a detoxification practitioner who said I had bacteria attached to my D3 receptor sites (my daughter had mercury attached to hers).
After doing her protocol for quite a few weeks, we both quit reacting to the D3 and our levels began to go up. I can't really explain her system, but she believed in "provoke and release".
We quit going because she was 3 hours from our home and it was financially not sustainable. She utilized nutritional cocktails, IV nutrition, foot and hand baths(hours at a time), HBOT, tapping, cold lasers, sauna.
I truly don't believe we were "herxing" from the D3 a year ago. It just had no where to go in our body so it became what I am callling "immune suppressant" -- I guess what Marshall proposes.
Thank goodness we are both now absorbing and slowly getting our levels up with supplementation.
Posts: 69 | From Birmingham, AL 35242 | Registered: Sep 2008
| IP: Logged |
Bugg
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8095
posted
Vitamin D and immune function: an overview.
Hewison M.
Source
UCLA and Orthopaedic Hospital Department of Orthopaedic Surgery and the Orthopaedic Hospital Research Center, David Geffen School of Medicine at UCLA, 615 Charles E. Young, Los Angeles, CA 90095, USA. [email protected]
Abstract
Immunomodulatory actions of vitamin D have been recognised for over a quarter of a century, but it is only in the last few years that the significance of this to normal human physiology has become apparent.
Two key factors have underpinned this revised perspective. Firstly, there are increasing data linking vitamin insufficiency with prevalent immune disorders. Improved awareness of low circulating levels of precursor 25-hydroxyvitamin D in populations across the globe has prompted epidemiological investigations of health problems associated with vitamin D insufficiency.
Prominent among these are autoimmune diseases such as multiple sclerosis, type 1 diabetes and Crohn's disease, but more recent studies indicate that infections such as tuberculosis may also be linked to low 25-hydroxyvitamin D levels. The second factor expanding the link between vitamin D and the immune system is our improved knowledge of the mechanisms that facilitate this association.
It is now clear that cells from the immune system contain all the machinery needed to convert 25-hydroxyvitamin D to active 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D, and for subsequent responses to 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D. Mechanisms such as this are important for promoting antimicrobial responses to pathogens in macrophages, and for regulating the maturation of antigen-presenting dendritic cells. The latter may be a key pathway by which vitamin D controls T-lymphocyte (T-cell) function.
However, T-cells also exhibit direct responses to 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D, notably the development of suppressor regulatory T-cells. Collectively these observations suggest that vitamin D is a key factor linking innate and adaptive immunity, and both of these functions may be compromised under conditions of vitamin D insufficiency.
Posts: 1155 | From Southeast | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged |
AuntyLynn
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 35938
posted
In other words, TAKE YOUR COD LIVER OIL, children! Get natural Vit D AND A AND "fish oil"
BTW, giving kids Cod Liver Oil became imperative during the depression years! Rickets were RAMPANT in this country because of general malnutrition. (As your parents or your grandparents about it!)
Thanks for all the supportive info folks! When my Mom was dxd with "possible MS" my sister insisted that we should NOT give her CLO because the "national MS website" said Vitamin D could "exacerbate" MS (!!!) I told her that the MS Association got their nutritional info from the dark ages... and we fought bitterly about it.
The above links explain this confusion perfectly!
Posts: 1432 | From New Jersey | Registered: Jan 2012
| IP: Logged |
The Lyme Disease Network is a non-profit organization funded by individual donations. If you would like to support the Network and the LymeNet system of Web services, please send your donations to:
The
Lyme Disease Network of New Jersey 907 Pebble Creek Court,
Pennington,
NJ08534USA http://www.lymenet.org/
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
Printer-friendly view of this topic