Lymedin2010
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posted
For how long do you soak in hot water & how hot do you make it? Have you ever checked your body temp before getting out, what induced fever did you get? I can get mine typically to 102 & have reached 103 at one point.
The hotter I get, the dizzier I get & the more my heart beats. I believe this happens in general when you increase body temp. Have you found this to get better or the same as your symptoms improved?
Something interesting that I discovered via microscopy. After 2 days of soaking 2x a day, I found spirochetes in the WBC's. I had found numerous ones coming out of RBC's since the HOURS I have spent looking at them.
I had never seen one come out of WBC, until now. And it's not just one, there are soooo many that come out. At times 6 or 8 & a bunch of cysts as well.
I don't know why the WBC's have not killed them, it seams like the spiro's have hijacked them! Maybe they were engulfed & they remain in the WBC's.
Posts: 2087 | From NY | Registered: Oct 2011
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posted
what is RBC AND WBC. I TAKE A JACUZZI SOAK FOR A HALF HOUR A FEW DAYS A WEEK SEEMS TO HELP READ ON ANOTHER SITE . THAT THE SPIROCETTS DO NOT LIKE IT .. (FEVER THERAPY)..
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Lymedin2010
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posted
Red blood cell and white blood cells.
Posts: 2087 | From NY | Registered: Oct 2011
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posted
Thank You.. duh.
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Haley
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posted
I'm not sure I understand. Are you saying that the WBCs are doing their job or that they are not doing their job? Is this a bad result or a good result? Sorry, I'm a bit slow today.
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Lymedin2010
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posted
I am not sure what to make of it.
If I had to postulate, I would say the heat has caused them to exit certain tissue and be exposed in the plasma fluid. There they are picked up by the WBC's, but they have somehow lost the ability to kill them in the WBC's.
I am Vit D deficient and when I take Vit D in large quantities, I get a herx like response. I get burning and pains in spots that I would not normally get and I just don't feel well. Maybe Vit D is needed to trigger the immune response, since right now there does not appear to be any.
All the ABX seems to sequester the bacteria in the cells, where they are unaffected by my long term ABX usage. In fact they have expanded and grown under the protection of my very own cells.
Posts: 2087 | From NY | Registered: Oct 2011
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glm1111
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posted
Curious...What happens after salt/c or antiparasitics? Are the ketes affected? Have U seen any parasites under the microscope?
Gael
-------------------- PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS* Posts: 6418 | From philadelphia pa | Registered: Jul 2008
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Lymedin2010
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posted
At the very beginning I saw the mites pictured on Lymephotos, but they were rare and sparse. I do not see them anymore after the first few months of ABX treatment. http://lymephotos.com/mites/index.html
With Salt C I did not see as many in the blood and I thought I was finally killing them. Instead I think they went for deeper tissue.
I felt my heart, head, and neurons mostly affected, with so much tremors and vibrations. To the point of not being able to bare it and feeling like I am regressing. I still remain with the newly formed or more attenuated symptoms after the salt c. I took another break from it now after being on it one month.
Tremors have died down drastically after stopping SC w/parasitics though. Before salt C and parasitics, I did not have major tremors or heart disturbances.
I have identified them as Borrelia Afzelii. I also feel whatever was in me has grown in size. What started as small and "cute" twitches are now disturbing twitches and movement. Vibrations and tremors, bubbling and gurgling. Some of the Borrelia are so long now & have grown in length.
Some are pearly, like a line with strings, which I believe are in the process of breaking up into tiny pearl cysts. I also see larger objects, as if they were the String like Borrelia curled up ever so cleverly. I see L shaped and dumbbell shaped ones too, of various sizes.
It all makes more sense now. When I stop Doxy and hit with Amoxi in the past, I feel like my blood is filled with something. I would have more head and neck pressures. Can't sit up reclined without increased head and neck pressures, sitting is worst, and sitting with legs crossed would be unbearable when at this stage.
Can't cross my arms or legs without numbness and pain when off Doxy.
Posts: 2087 | From NY | Registered: Oct 2011
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quote: If I had to postulate, I would say the heat has caused them to exit certain tissue and be exposed in the plasma fluid. There they are picked up by the WBC's, but they have somehow lost the ability to kill them in the WBC's.
If one were on abx, why wouldnt the abx kill it when it exits the tissue and is in the plasma? You are light years beyond me in understanding this stuff.
I feel really bad during and after taking a hot bath. The next day everything aches. I was wondering if I was making the lyme worse or if it was a herx. However I don't understand how a hot bath could induce a herx.
Posts: 833 | From Somewhere | Registered: Nov 2010
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- This is for the majority of readers:
Some can handle heat (and they already know who they are) but most with lyme cannot and it can actually cause all kinds of setbacks, even damage. So . . . unless you KNOW you can handle high heat, just don't do it.
Toasty, cozy WARM is the way to go for most. Here's why. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Lymedin2010
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posted
Reason it may not kill it is because the ABX do not readily enter the cells & is one of the bigger problems with Lyme.
That is why Babesia takes so long to kill, you have to wait for your RBC to naturally die off & release babs into the bloodstream. Then it can be killed off by ABX.
Keebler, I know this is not for all. I am desperate & this has worked for TF & Wild Condor, Maryland Mom, & Tom Grier. Some of the few who were chronically sick & used the hot baths in conjunction with other protocols.
I tried to take video of this, but I had to do it with my camera hovered over the microscope. I don't have a microscope video cam yet, so it looks a bit horrible. Once you click on the link, expand the video full screen.
Look at the fine, hair like structures exhiting the ruptured WBC & squirming like worms.
posted
Okay, if it is true that the WBC won't/can't kill the spirochetes and they're being protected from abx by the body/tissues,
how do you kill them? Will you take a specific killer/abx/herb/combo while they are out in your blood stream?
What's your next step?
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Lymedin2010
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Honestly, I don't know. I have taken so many things already & I don't get much consistant herxing. More like daily migrating symptoms & everything has just gotten worst over time.
My blood & the number of Borrelia shows this decline over time. Each few months is worst than the last few.
I think since I have so many in my blood stream, I can consider rifing. I can't imagine the rest of my tissues & this also explains the migratory symptoms. These things are EVERYWHERE and in so many different forms.
Do you want to know another really odd thing. I have checked the blood of others & everyone in my family & indirect family has them. I am the only one who has an extensive amount & growing in numbers with time.
Posts: 2087 | From NY | Registered: Oct 2011
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Lymedin2010
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posted
Does anyone know how I can have their DNA tested & confirm the exact species?
I have not been tested since Dec 2010, where I only showed 2 bands. 41 IGM & 31 IGG.
Posts: 2087 | From NY | Registered: Oct 2011
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Lymedin2010,
Thanks for noting that "this has worked for TF & Wild Condor, Maryland Mom, & Tom Grier" (end quote).
I wonder (really just normal voice here, wondering) as you've researched this, do you have links from all of those to detail exactly HOW they did this?
For myself, I'd like to see but also, just to know as I try to protect others from some of the same disasters I've had with heat and if there is some method that has worked for others, it would be so great to have direct sources links to the specifics that others have employed.
And, since you've already gathered the research and compared their notes, it would save me tons of hours trying to find this on my own.
Thanks so much - if you can post all their "hot bath links"
I would add, still, that it would be essential to have in place first:
myelin sheath support to protect nerves from heat
heart, liver and adrenal support, too (as all those organs can be stressed from heat).
Good luck with your endeavor. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Lymedin2010
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posted
Can't seem to find Maryland Mom's, but here are the others:
_______________________________________________ Tom Grier: I had spoken to Tom personally. He mentioned that he used to turn up the heat at his local sauna place & that others would leave since it be unconfortably hot. He then had the whole sauna to himself.
"This is because the immune system has suppressed or eliminated the bacteria, or exposure to severe heat like saunas has killed the heat labile organism.
(Borrelia cannot tolerate temperatures above 108 F for more than 20 minutes.
But to get our core temperature and brain to that temperature would kill us, so all we can do is use heat as an adjunct to kill the bacteria in our skin and help deliver more antibiotic deeper because of vasodilatation of blood vessels.
This was done to treat Syphilis, and when penicillin came out commercially in the mid 1940s, hot springs across the nation went out of business.
See Dr. Bundeson in the book by: DeKruif, Paul: Life among the Doctors. Pp140-168"
______________________________________________ TF: "took hot epsom salts baths on really terrible days during treatment in order to help me detox. I stayed in the hot water for at least an hour, then got out and went right to bed feeling very limp. These are for detox purposes, not for temperature. And, you have to drink a quart of warm water while you are in the water for an hour so that you don't dehydrate yourself." ________________________________________________
Posts: 2087 | From NY | Registered: Oct 2011
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MannaMe
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posted
Lymedin2010, I wonder what would happen if you used rife?
Are you taking supplements to support your immune system?
Sorry, I'm not much help.
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sammy
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Member # 13952
posted
Did you speak to Wildcondor personally about the hotbaths?
I did speak with Wildcondor extensively (thank you so much if you happen to read this!) when considering HBOT and later through the treatment process.
I don't want to speak for her but it was made clear to me that her treatment success was through the combination of HBOT and IV antibiotics. She did not once recommend HOT fever baths to me. She did recommend various detox support which I was already following from my doctor.
When I talked with her last, she recommended maintaining HBOT progress/success with maintenance dives. Again, no fever baths.
It's too bad that she is no longer a member here. She was a wonderful help.
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
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posted
- Lymedin2010,
Thanks for some of that detail. I can't read through it all now but, in reading quite a bit, really can't formulate a concise reply.
I know that Tom Grier's work is usually excellent. But, as I recall, it was not heat, per se, that made the most difference for him, either, but a particular antibiotic from Canada.
I'm not sure if he would still recommend heat today -- but, even if so, HIS body, HIS tolerance to heat seems to be very rare among those with lyme.
I have to stand by my cautions, however. Not just in my multiple disasters with heat (before I finally figured it out) . . . but from others' accounts, too much heat can be very dangerous, indeed. Be very, very careful.
I lost all leg function for a week at one time from a hot bath. Another year, a long (not all that hot, I thought) hot tube soak, landed me in bed for months. But I did not make that connection for a long time.
I'd push heat, it felt good at the time so I was thinking hot baths had to be good for me and I just needed to deal with it. My legs would often just give way after a hot bath . . I'd pass out even hours after getting out. My leg function was like jell-o for days. Finally, I connected the dots.
Even for those who previously could tolerate a lot of heat, that can change with lyme so it's good to keep that in mind, just in case. Take it easy. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Lymedin2010
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Member # 34322
posted
Manname, I am trying to find somebody in NY/NJ so we can trade services for rifing vs blood microscopy . �It would be such an advantage to see the buggers affected by a certain frequency. �I have even ordered a vid cam for the scope now and I would post the vids on here for all to see.
I take B12 on occassions. �I am so confused about MG and Vit D, don't know whether to take or not....will it feed the bacteria or not?
Sammy, I would love to speak to Wild Condor. �As much information as she has provided in her story, there are still some questions. �I actually sent her an email a few weeks ago, but she has not responded. �I am sure she is very busy. �A healthier life can mean a very busy one.
Keebler, I understand not everyone is affected the same way. �That's what makes this disease so damn unbearable on so many levels, there is no cookie cutter protocols. �I know once you have an experience with Lyme you want to share, help, and warn others.
Tom Grier had taken 3 years of ABX and his very last symptom was head pressures and head related symptoms. �That did not resolve until he got Rulide brand ABX from Mexico. �To this day he still has atrial fibrillation and extreme tiredness and fatigue, but nothing else. �I think a good trade off for being at the brink of death?
I think his remaining symptoms are viral in nature.
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