We have observed for "many moons" now already that our daughter's symptoms always seem to flare up significantly during the week just prior to the full moon. It has helped us both very much to keep our calendars marked and to avoid over-planning extra activities, as well as to avoid any major changes in her ordinary routine (including adding or changing medications) during this 4-5 day period just prior to the Full Moon. The good news is that as she continues to improve, this effect is much less pronounced and troublesome than it was even just one year ago.

Nevertheless, I'm mentioning our observation about the lunar cycle now for the sake of others who might not have observed this subtle effect yet themselves, but who are perhaps affected by it, because the Full Moon this month arrives on Sun., Feb. 16, 2003.

Keeping a daily/weekly journal or log of symptoms can be helpful, but it is even more useful to mark the date in the journal in relation to the lunar cycle. By doing so, the pattern -- IF the Full Moon really does affect you -- is likely to emerge more clearly.

This is NOT to say that everyone will be similarly affected, because I seriously doubt that everyone would be. This is NOT a poll to vote on whether or not you think the Full Moon has such an effect -- because if it doesn't affect you, then that's just great. You're fortunate, I'd say. The purpose of this topic is so that anyone who wishes to comment will be able to record their own observations. By doing so, it might help others to make some sense out of all the confusion and unpredictability of their own periodic symptom flare-ups.

Another key element we have observed in our daughter's case is that low barometric pressure fronts have a very similar effect. And when both of these two events occur simultaneously, then that's a double whammy. While we may not be able to control the weather (or the phases of the lunar cycle), just being able to predict their effects offers us some semblance of a sense of control, because then we can take them into account whenever trying to plan ahead for special activities.

Needless to say, women also have their menstrual cycle to contend with, so sometimes it's a "triple whammy" when there is a low barometric pressure front coinciding with that female "time of the month" and also coinciding with the lunar cycle. No wonder the old-timers coined the term "lunatic" because it does seem appropriate at such times.

Before posting this topic, I did take time to do a search of the archives. There were just a few brief comments scattered here and there, but I found only one topic heading about it. That's why I thought that it might be worthwhile to post a new topic again, since we are approaching the Full Moon in just a few more days. (Sun., Feb. 16)

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We have noted the same thingy in this household.

Glad to hear that your daughter continues to improve!

Give her a from me!

Thanks for all you do for others!

Both my boys this week showed some Lyme symptoms and it did make me wonder.

We have both the moon and the storm systems.

This has been a very helpful observation.

Thank you very much TX mom!

I've noticed this since being dxd in Sept'00. I used to REALLY herx around the full moon, now it's much milder.

Katydid LOVES the full moon too. Right, WOLFGIRL?!

What a timely reminder since the next full moon is October 21 (this Monday).

So, Yes, these Full Moon flares begin during the week just prior to the Full Moon itself; they build up to a crescendo on the exact day of the Full Moon; then, Bingo, this flare-up of Lyme symptoms is gone the very next day after the Full Moon has passed -- unless, of course, there's a weather front moving in or unless her menstrual cycle hits simultaneously. When that occurs, then it's much more difficult to discern if there is any kind of let-up in the intensity of her symptoms because it becomes too confusing to sort out all these separate effects.

I've talked with a couple of PhD astro-physicists and also with a PhD meterologist about it. The best anyone has been able to suggest is that it might be some subtle gravitational effect -- in the same sense that the moon is known to affect the magnitude of the ocean tides. The moon does not have an electrmagnetic core, so we have not found a way to build a case that describes this effect as anything other than some subtle gravitational force.

Regarding Lymetoo's comment about "jet lag", though, I don't think that this is what causes jet lag. We've crossed lots of time zones, having flown all the way to Bombay, India. Jet lag results from upsetting your circadian rhythm by "gaining" or "losing" one or more hours when you enter a new time zone. What I had mentioned (above) about the effects of the cabin pressure inside the aircraft is something else altogether. That phenomenon seems to be more nearly similar to the subtle effects of approaching low barometric weather changes, because decreases in the barometer almost always tend to trigger a flare-up in symptoms, too.

Barometric pressure changes used to put me asleep. Moon keeps me up, too. Yep, works for me.
T Scout

I was born at the full moon, and I've always noticed an increase in "techiness" at that time. When my female cycle happens to correspond, it can be unbearable.

Last week was kind of a tough week pain- and fatigue-wise. I will start keeping track of this.

Thanks again,

Sue

``Clinical studies have established that women who suffer from PMS often have lower levels of magnesium in their blood than women who don't have this problem. Adding magnesium supplementation has been shown to help relieve symptoms such as weight gain, mood swings, and breast tenderness in many women.'' (1)

``Magnesium is another mineral that seems to have a beneficial effect on women with PMS. A few studies have found lower magnesium levels in women with PMS than in women without symptoms. Other studies suggest that increasing magnesium levels might reduce or eliminate premenstrual discomfort, especially emotional symptoms such as tension and anxiety.

Magnesium deficiency causes a shortage of dopamine, a chemical found in the brain that regulates mood, according to Dr. Abraham. This shortage may have something to do with the premenstrual tension and irritability that many women experience.

In one Italian study of 28 women with PMS, a magnesium supplement of 360 mg was associated with fewer cramps, less water retention and an overall improvement in premenstrual symptoms.'' (5)

``But since people with fibromyalgia often have high levels of stress, and a disrupted hormonal system, they are more likely to be candidates for magnesium deficiency. Magnesium utilization is also increased by the presence of estrogen'' http://web.mit.edu/london/www/magnesium.html

``If the egg is not fertilized, the corpus luteum stops producing progesterone and estrogen and progesterone levels drop. Lower levels of these hormones cause the endometrium to shed and menstruation to begin. The cycle begins again as FSH levels rise because the low estrogen level does not suppress it.'' http://www.alternativemedicinechannel.com/menopause/

It would follow then...as estrogen drops, magnesium utilization is decreased...hence the need for more before menses.

``Evening primrose oil and magnesium citrate are two supplements that may be taken. Taken throughout the month as a daily supplement, evening primrose oil prevents headaches and blemishes that occur just before the period. Magnesium deficiencies are common and result in the release of prostaglandins that cause spasm and pain. Magnesium is antispasmodic and helps relieve the problem. Take 300 to 500mg daily and work up to bowel tolerance.''(6)

Source #1 is Big Book of Miracle Cures by Corrine T. Netzer 1999

Source # 5 is Preventions Healing With vitamins 1996

Source #6 is Get Healthy Now! by Gary Null 1999.

I've also heard a friend whose husband is a peace officer comment that there are both more accidents and more homicides during the week of the Full Moon. Another friend who is an RN has told me that they see more admissions to the ER as well as more births during the week of the Full Moon.

It's easy to ignore these subtleties in our modern day lives, but farmers in the old days (before so much chemical fertilization) planted crops according to the lunar cycle, too, I've heard. Maybe that's just an old folk tale, but I'll bet there was some truth to be found in "planting by the moon".

Likewise, I've heard that master herbalists prefer to set up their herbal extractions during a certain phase of the moon, but I don't know all the details about doing it because I'm not an herbalist myself. This is only something I've read about in herbal books.

We know that various species of Borrelia do go through alternating phases of spirochetemia, according to published medical research, but please don't ask me for the exact citations because I'm not sure if I can find them very easily. I'm just wondering if these recurrences of spirochetemia might not be influenced by the lunar cycle perhaps.

It surely seems as if the "keets" are coming out to party during the week of the Full Moon, especially to anyone who is living in the same household together with a sick Lyme patient, I can tell you that much for sure. I often suspect that those of us who live around a Lymie can recognize this effect even more readily than they can themselves because they are just too miserable and too confused to be able to discern what's happening inside their bodies. Which is WHY I decided to post this topic this week, in the first place -- to try to help folks sort out some of these otherwise unpredictable symptom flares.

you mentioned about flying...is there anything I can do about an upcoming flight to florida in 2 weeeks, to make sure I don't flare when I get down there? I"d hate to spend money adn be sick??? Any suggestions would be very much appreciated!!

You won't be crossing any time zones, so you shouldn't have "jet lag" to worry about -- only just the effects of being up in the altitude for a few short hours. A cross country plane flight isn't nearly as hard on you as a low barometric pressure weather front that lasts all day or longer. You might not feel any effects at all during your up-coming airplane travel.

If you have sinus or earache trouble from the pressurization changes inside the aircraft cabin during take-off and landing, then taking a simple antihistamine an hour before the flight should keep the eustachian tubes from becoming congested and prevent those awful earaches and/or sinus pressure headaches from getting started. "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure" in this unique situation. However, antihistamines do have a drying effect on the nasal passages, so the effect of antihistamines can be a trade-off, and you will have to decide which set of symptoms are maybe going to be the worst for you and act accordingly.

I really can't think of too much else. Have a safe trip.

PS - The Full Moon is past now -- today, Tues., Oct. 22. It might be good if someone can remember to bring this topic back up again next month a few days before November's Full Moon, which will occur on Wed., Nov. 20.

Sure enough, later that night, we would note the full moon.

Thanks, TX Mom, for the warning.

quote:

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Originally posted by tabbytamer:

Interesting, though, that you timed your trip away right around our lunie period.

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Next week will probably be busy at LymeNet!!
Hope we don't get hit too hard....

Cheers,
Stella

PS - I'm "editing" to add that I'm hoping a few friendly volunteers to try to keep this topic on pg. 1-2 over the weekend. I'm going to be out of town myself, but I realize that this is an important time of the month to be sure that everyone gets to see it. This message can disappear again (for another month) on the first day after the Full Moon this next week. Thanks. (Full Moon will Wed., Nov. 20 and next month it's Thurs., Dec. 19.)

Needless to say, has anyone here EVER seen a SQUARE MOON?

I do NOT see that person any more. Square moon my butt!

Now moms...the NYC Police have issued a statement saying that there is definately
NOT any increase in crime during a full moon, and Bellvue Hospital, which has the best emergency room and Psyc. ward in the city, reports the same. I have never seen anything documented that stated differently...except for anecdotal evidence which can be explained away by coincidence. As for The circadian thingy, YES, this can be the reason...some of these circs coincide with the lunar cycle...that does not mean they are caused by them...what may be happening INSIDE our bodies may not be the result of what happens on the outside in this case. I do acknowledge some people
SEEM to be more affected than others, but I never felt a thing...which was unfortunately what my last date said...I was tired ok?, VERY unusual night..., yes there are differences in gravitational push/pull effect, etc., but I feel the pull of my bed is greater that the moon's force...unless, of course, there is a "Nice MOON' next to me...heh heh heh.....

All you MOONIES out there...who da MAN??

(In the Moon, that is)

Is it really cheese...or a bad case of the
Yeasties?

Peace, love and wellness....and a telescope to see into your neighbor's moonatorium...

Very interesting topic. I used to work in retail many centuries ago when I could still work and sometimes we got some ratty customers. I loved waiting on the customers so I don't say this like ugh--customers to wait on. Anyway we used to notice that frequently (though not always.) if we'd had a bunch of pain in the neck customers that it turned out to be a full moon.

I've seen on TV that there is more crime and more people go to the ER during a full moon.

I've never noticed a pattern of any effect on me personally but that doesn't mean there isn't one. I love the moon. It's so pretty and romantic (when one is loved...)

Don't know if my Lyme is worse during PMS week but I get in a worse mood--cry more, rage more.

Jet lag isn't about the lunar cycle but about having your wake/sleep cycle out of sync with day and night where you are because you've been somewhere else. I find that even changing the clocks an hour made me have jet lag for days. I've travelled overseas years ago and found I recovered from jet lag quickly when going from West to East but that it took days or a week to recover when returning from East to West. Don't know why.

Garth Nicolson discusses the issue of flying with regard to mycoplasma and that you should avoid flying if possible. Cabin pressure might have been involved but I think it was to do with less oxygen content in the cabin than on the ground and since mycoplasma don't like oxygen they are happy up there and do their thing (multiply?). Since Bb also like low oxygen this would seem to apply to Lyme victims too.

What I'm going to say now is only an idea I have so don't take it as fact or even as misquoted from something similar. But on the issue of low barometric pressure--all kinds of people have more aches and pains when the pressure drops--not only Lyme victims and I was wondering if the reason for this is similar to what happens when one gets the bends when surfacing quickly from a deep dive. The pressure in deep water is much greater than shallow water or in air and when you return to lower pressure quickly the gas molecules in your blood form bubbles because they no longer have the pressure of the water to contain them. Could it be possible that something similar happens when the barometer drops. Many pains are caused by inflammation and inflammation often produces swelling. In many cases perhaps it's not visible--but is just a minute amount but that amount is enough to cause pain like people who have old injuries that hurt when it rains or Lyme pains. Like maybe the barometric pressure that would contain that tiny bit of swelling makes the difference between pain and no pain between low pressure days and high pressure days. I have no idea if this is the real reason but it just sounds like a logical possibility and I'd thought of it some time ago and this thread is the perfect place to share it. Might be totally dumb--I don't know. What does anyone else think of this?

Gotta go--suppertime.

Weather is awful and moon is nearly full--are we sicker yet as a group? Overall I don't think I'm much different than most days--I had worse times and less-worse times through the day.

Second, I'm excited to report that .....drum roll, please....our daughter does not seem to be reacting to the Full Moon this month -- or at least she's not reacting quite so noticeably as always before. Is this due to the effects after 4.5 mos. of Minocin? I'm hoping that it is, because so many things seem to be improving now. It's all so gradual that progress is sometimes seemingly imperceptible.

As I stated earlier, I don't think that the phases of the moon affect ALL Lymies, but I do firmly believe that it definitely affects many patients who suffer from various types of chronic illnesses. Furthermore, I genuinely believe that it is to their advantage to be able to recognize these subtle effects. That's why I think it's important to pull this topic up to the top each month so that folks who are unaware of the possibility of this connection can start to take notice of it.

Again, this is another one of those situations where "If the shoe fits, wear it" applies. For us, the predictable effects of the Full Moon is proving to be just one more milestone marker to measuring her progress in defeating this D@#$able Disease (DD) called LD. Yipeee....no Full Moon flare in our household this month....YET.

Let's see what tonight brings, though, because the Full Moon hasn't passed yet. Even her PMS is coinciding now, too, and she's almost nearly normal in spite of this double whammy. It seems too good to be true, and I hope I'm not jinxing it by posting this much prematurely.

OK, I'm going back out of town again for a few days. I'm only home for less than 24 hrs. this trip, so I won't be able to post any follow-up comments until the weekend.

So, I guess you'll just have to wait in suspense until next month when I bring this topic back up again during the week just prior to December's Full Moon, which will occur (according to my cheap, freebie calendar) on Thurs., Dec. 19, 2002. I want to be sure that everyone who might be affected by the lunar cycle, but who has not observed the correlation, has the chance to become cognizant of it.

For those of you who are not affected by it, I'm genuinely happy for you. I'm not looking to start any controversies over this topic. All I'm hoping to do is to try to help those, who might benefit from being aware of it, have a chance to focus sufficient attention upon it, in order to be able to discern whether or not "the shoe fits" concerning their shall-we-say "lunacy."

Till next month,
Lunar-Tick's Mom
(AKA: TXLM)

Follow-up comment, promised last month:
Our daughter did have just one, only one, day of slighly incresed symptoms last month, after I had boasted prematurely that for the first time ever, the Full Moon didn't seem to be phasing her last month. She had MILD joint symptoms (knee, fingers, carpal tunnel) and MILD brain fog and MILD stumbling into walls, and I've forgotten what the other MILD symptom (maybe appetite) was.

So far, this month (Dec., 2002), she's sailing smoothly again, but I don't want to jinx it by saying so too early, because the Full Moon ain't over till it's over....

I don't know if I am imagining things, but I think I have felt the FULL MOON effect these past few days!

I'm in a technical class this week and wes bright and chipper (as much as I can be anymore) on Monday, started slowing down yesterday, and am totally dense today.

And yesterday after a couple hours on the computer my back and neck felt like someone had beat me, finally had to get ice packs which helped more then anything, along my shoulder and neck felt swollen even and hot to the touch.

I do hope the aches and pains and fatigue goes away for Everyone real soon. To close to Christmas to feel this way.

But all and All ..tis the season and I am ready to make merry Just a little more slowly this year.

As many as 1/2 might be able to say their symptoms come around the time of the full moon, giving popularity to the idea. And if symptoms flare up for a few days before or after the full moon, it is easy to make such a correlation.

I'm not denying that people experience a flare-up around the full moon every month, but this does not in itself show a causal relationship.

It is just coincidence that your Lyme is on the same cycle as the moon phase, or very close to it. We all know that symptoms can last for several days, making more people's flare-ups overlap with the moon phase.

And there is some value in recognizing the time relationship between the moon phase and your Lyme cycle as you can use the phases of the moon as a kind of clock to let you know when your symptoms will flare.

A month is not exactly 28 days, so if you think "my Lyme will flare about the same time every month" you will always be off by a couple of days because some months have 31 days, some have 30, etc.

The cycle of the moon is a more exact way of plotting your flare-ups.

I'm not trying to invalidate the "moon" theory (ok, maybe I am), but I am concerned that people with Lyme already have a reputation of it all being in their head, and talk of the moon influencing the disease may just feed that fire.

Logic has not shown a causal relationship between moon phases and Lyme flare-ups, but it is a very accurate means of measuring time.

Matt

See ya' again next month, though....Sat., Jan. 18. (I might have posted that date wrong above, but I was probably looking at an old calendar for 2002, if I did. Sorry.)

BTW, in response to the previous poster's remarks, I reiterate that NOT everyone experiences these effects! As our daughter improves, this effect becomes much less pronounced. And frankly, I could care less what the Duck Docs think about it as being "luny" because they tend to try to pin a pscychiatric label on CFIDS & LD pts no matter what anyway.

PS - And guess what else. Guess what we're giving our LLMD for Christmas.....a barometer, so he can see the correlation between the number of calls he gets from pts when low babometric pressure fronts hit. We chose the liquid-filled glass bulb type barometer because it is the most graphic and easy to see. When that thing leaks (drips fluid), Lymies are hurting bad.

Very sore and ache all over..I also could just be Herxing...My energy level is better though..I am going to start watching the full moon a bit more to see if I am having increased symptoms at the full moon.

It seems like I just recovered from th last one..

quote:

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Originally posted by SKINNYNOW32:
OH NO !!! NOT AGAIN!

It seems like I just recovered from th last one..

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I think this is one of my favorite comments of all time. That's exactly how we used to feel each month!

Thank goodness, as our daughter improves, the Full Moon is becoming less and less of a problem for her each month now.

I was reminded about this when I started noticing some of the strange, severe symptom flares that a few patients are starting to report the last day or so. That's what made me think that it's time to re-post this topic again for this month.

Also, another topic has been posted by TinCup about the attempt to grow Bb under conditions of microgravity in the bioreactor at NASA. Here's a link to that topic, because I suspect that there probably IS a connection between Bb's growth cycle and the gravitational effects of the moon when it is lined up with the earth each month, causing the Full Moon to appear.
http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/Forum1/HTML/014614.html

Remember, certain abx only kill bacteria when they are in their growth cycle, especially the cell wall inhibiting abx (like the penicillin family and the cephalosporin family). So, maybe the folks who are taking these abx feel the effects of the Full Moon more intensely than do others who are taking other abx...reckon??

In fact, when I took mebendazole, the pharmacist told me to wait and take it during the full moon.

This was so extreme when he was with severe psychosis, and now it is still marked.

We even plan things like visits, doctor travel, or med adjustments that are somewhat flexible to this pattern. He was on Klonopin a short while a ways back, and I wanted to take him off (this is not an easy one to stop) and I geared the tapers towards this. When we started one of the tapers on the day of the moon (when he had a clear lift in his flare) ..it worked very well, without problems with withdrawal.

That just as an example. The baby and I also flare at the same time..hers is much more subtle, though.

Crime is up around the full moon, ER visits up, my Mom's a nurse, and they know things get nuts around the moon.

Tides are up..

It's a huge force of energy.

Mo

Last summer I flew to Orlando for my sisters wedding and ended up spending 4 days with a migraine. I didn't even get to go to the beach

great...this probably means my holidays are shot. I'll have to see how the full moon affects me.

Hugs,
Naomi

Not only with illness, etc, but also with like mo said ER rates, crime , etc.

I work in a law office and we have "blue moon rising days" We know ALL days that there are fulls moons,

because i chit you not, EVERY psycho client calls on these days and just go BONKERS. tHE PHONEs do NOT quit. Seriously.

Now- get a client on the phone saying something like (true story) "help, he locked me in my basement and I have no phone, no food, and no water"

versued with a lyme patient having a VERY bad day saying "then how the HECK are you calling me?"

Tis true! This moon stuff is a big deal for us- and all the lunatics.

Here's what I think might be going on to account for this effect. We all know that the penicillin family and the cephalosporing family of abx are both known as "cell wall inhibiting" abx because that's what they do -- they inhibit cell wall formation of bacteria, causing them either to die or to change forms to another "cell wall divergent" variant, as a defense mechanism.

We also know that these cell wall inhibiting abx work only during the growth phase of the bacteria. We know that because that's what the pharmacology textbooks tell us. So, if this is so and if folks tend to have more Lyme Herxes or Lyme flares during the week just prior to the Full Moon, then it probably means that the gravitational effects of the moon are somehow influencing the growth cycle of the spirochetes.

Afterall, we should recall that the research experiments trying to culture Bb with the 3-D bio-reactor at NASA depends on the effects of mini-gravity. Spirochetes can be very difficult to grow in regular culture media, but they tend to grow much more easily when under the influence of the 3-D gravitational reactor.

I surely do wish I knew how to find the link to that research, but alas, my computer skills are somewhat deficient. Maybe someone else can hunt that webpage for us and post the link to it, because I sense that there's a scientific explanation going on here which we are having trouble grasping, and I sense that it has something to do with the gravitational pull of the moon on the growth cycle of Bb.