posted
"Actually, your body produces MORE adrenaline when your blood sugar drops (hypoglycemia)."
Ahhh, big hole here. Sugar is not the only source of blood sugar. Both carbs and protein are converted into blood glucose. This is why glycemic index is important. You can eat and maintain a proper blood sugar without going too high or low with much more ease by using a low glycemic diet.
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emla999/Lyme
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posted
Again, when blood sugar drops, adrenaline production goes up.
And if you eat pure white sugar or fruit and etc. at various times throughout the day this can help to keep your blood sugar from dropping too low and therefore eating sugar can potentially keep your adrenaline levels low or at least lower.
And in my opiniom, eating sugar or fruit or something like that can be benefical for people that have high adrenaline and high levels of stress hormones.
And also in my opinion, not becoming overlyhydrated may also be benifical in lowering stress hormone production because if you drink too much water you can potentially lower your blood sugar level and therefore drinking too much water may possible induce the production of adrenaline.
And it is easy to determine whether or not you are drinking too much water by measuring the specific gravity of your urine with arelatively cheap refractometer.
beaches
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posted
Ninja wrote:
"The problem with adrenal support is that it will only allow your body to pump out larger amounts of stress hormones (cortisol, adrenaline, etc).
This is somewhat equivalent to the boss yelling at you everyday to get your work done. Increasing the stress will force you to be more productive in the short run, but you will have a crash sooner or later. Let's not hand your boss a megaphone to "motivate" you more.
Whereas you would actively want to work if you were healthy. The trick is to reduce stress so the adrenals aren't needed as much since your metabolism is high."
................................................
OK, I was trying to NOT get into the mix here!
But someone please correct me if I am wrong-don't you need adrenal support when you are hit hard by Lyme/cos???
Especially if you've been dealing with these infections for a long time and.or have not gotten well despite years of treatment and have symptoms that are indicative of your adrenals being totally shot?
Sorry for the run-on sentence!
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glm1111
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ninjaphire,
There is a big difference in taking something like Adrenal Health with ingredients that nourish the adrenal glands, than drinking 10 cups of coffee that will cause them to work overtime.
Same applies to sea salt and vitamin C, that also SUPPORTS and nourishes the adrenals.
Gael
-------------------- PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS* Posts: 6418 | From philadelphia pa | Registered: Jul 2008
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beaches
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posted
And another thing, do Dr. Peat and this guy Matt have any kind of knowledge at all of Lyme Disease and its coinfections??? And how these flipping infections can affect every single system/organ in one's body???
If not, then this whole discussion/argument is unnecessary/bogus/ridiculous/silly.
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beaches
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posted
Yes, Gael-exactly.
Posts: 1885 | From here | Registered: Jul 2012
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"if you eat pure white sugar or fruit and etc. at various times throughout the day this can help to keep your blood sugar from dropping too low and therefore eating sugar can potentially keep your adrenaline levels low or at least lower." - emla999/Lyme
You are ignoring the point that refined sugar consumption also promotes adrenaline and that blood sugar is not maintained well by simple sugars (it spikes and falls off).
It also very odd to assume that everyone is hypoglycemic who doesn't eat refined sugars. That's just preposterous. If you maintain proper blood sugar without a high sugar diet, why would you advocate eating more sugar and risk adrenaline overload and pancreatic fatigue?
Yikes. It just doesn't make sense. I just think some people want to hear the magic words from on high that "you can eat sugar!".
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emla999/Lyme
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Why would you say that???
If follwing someone's suggestions caused your chronic Lyme Disease symptoms to improve dramatically why would it matter what they thought about chronic Lyme Disease????
My LLMDS believed wholeheartdly in the existance of Lyme Disease. My IgeneX test indicated that I had chronic Lyme Disease but my LLMD wasn't able to help me at all.
But following some of Dr. Peat and and Matt's suggestions have helped me tremendously. So, if Dr. Peat thought that chronic Lyme Disease was bogus I could careless because following some of Dr. Peat's and Matt's suggestions has helped me and the poster ninjaphire improve.
I have also communicated with a few other chronic Lyme Disease patients that have saw tremendous improvements following some of Dr. Peat's and Matt's advice.
beaches
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posted
OK, and again here I am not wanting to get into the mix of this but yet I continue to post. Oy vey!
Don't complex carbs like fruits, grains, veggies also get converted to glucose for our bodies to use???
IMO there is no valid reason, scientific or otherwise, at all to consume processed/refined foodstuff like white sugar and soda for the purpose of obtaining and/or maintaining one's health. Perhaps consuming "Mexican Cola" is different. I don't know anything about that.
But by and large, processed/refined foodstuff ought to be viewed as special "treats" and consumed as little and as infrequently as possible. There is just no good reason at all to consume these products regularly.
By no means am I a fanatic about sugar avoidance. I think we all need to treat ourselves occasionally. I do not at all agree with deprivation (unless of course it is necessary in the case of celiac's or diabetes or some other health issue).
But why on earth would anyone in their right mind deliberately consume processed/refined foodstuff on a regular basis, especially when they have serious health problems like Lyme/cos??? It just doesn't any make sense to me at all-
especially these days when you can walk into any grocery store and find a myriad of really good foods.
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beaches
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quoting emla...
"But following some of Dr. Peat and and Matt's suggestions have helped me tremendously. So, if Dr. Peat thought that chronic Lyme Disease was bogus I could careless because following some of Dr. Peat's and Matt's suggestions has helped me and the poster ninjaphire improve."
Fair enough. If following this doctor's suggestions has helped you, that's wonderful!
I guess I have a problem with any physician believing that Chronic Lyme Disease is bogus.
That alone would be the end of it for me b/c it's my reality and has been for years.
I just don't tolerate anyone minimizing or trying to eliminate my personal reality.
And as far as the Matt person, well, he's a just a person like the rest of us so his particular opinion is moot.
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emla999/Lyme
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Beaches, Dr. Peat highly recommends the eating of most sweet fruits and vegetables such as melons and potatoes. And to him, you can eat sugar if you want to but you don't have too. But he does not recommend that you eat high fructose corn syrup or too many grains. In part because grains contain PUFA's.
And again, I don't rigidly follow Ray or Matt's protocol. But I have found that incorporating some of Matt and Ray's advice into my life has helped me tremendously..... especially the drinking less water/fluid thing. And measuring my urine with a refratometer to determine whether or not I was drinking too much water.
quote:Originally posted by beaches: I guess I have a problem with any physician believing that Chronic Lyme Disease is bogus.
That alone would be the end of it for me b/c it's my reality and has been for years.
Dr. Peat is not at all against the use of antibiotics. In fact, he recommends the use of doxy/mino/tetracycline/penicillin etc as therapy.
However, he thinks it's the hypothyroid that allows the infection to flourish, and many of our symptoms are actually hypothyroid symptoms.
There are even a number of common symptoms between Lyme and say CFS, perhaps there's a common cause, hypothyroid.
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There is a big difference in taking something like Adrenal Health with ingredients that nourish the adrenal glands, than drinking 10 cups of coffee that will cause them to work overtime.
Same applies to sea salt and vitamin C, that also SUPPORTS and nourishes the adrenals.
Gael
Gael,
I'm saying that supporting and nourishing the adrenal glands (helping it make more cortisol for instance) is increasing the stress level on your body. In essence you're trying to patch the hypothyroid symptoms with more cortisol, which is probably not so good.
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posted
emla999/Lyme said: "I said no such thing. Where did I say that at?"
It's in the chain of assumption set up here:
Lyme=Hypothyroidism=Hypoglycemic
You've set up this hypothesis that we suffer from Lyme because we are suffering from a "low metabolism" (hypothyroidism), and we are hypothyroid because we are hypoglycemic, therefore we need to eat more sugar.
This is a very tenuous argument. Not even the first step in that chain can be established with certainty, given that it is more likely that hypothyroidism when coinciding with Lyme, is very likely to be caused by the Lyme. You have reversed this arrow of causality without explaining how or why.
If you are going to buck the conventional wisdom, you need to bring stronger evidence to the table than Dr. Peat says "xyz".
In the meantime I am certainly not assuming that eating more sugar and drinking less water is the cure for Lyme disease.
Posts: 922 | From Philadelphia | Registered: Sep 2012
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I'm saying that supporting and nourishing the adrenal glands (helping it make more cortisol for instance) is increasing the stress level on your body. In essence you're trying to patch the hypothyroid symptoms with more cortisol, which is probably not so good. [/QB][/QUOTE]
It sounds like you are making the assumption that all patients (or everybody?) is hypothyroid. You are also misunderstanding the fact that cortisol and adrenaline are produced in response to stressful situations.
Cortisol in particular is vital in dealing with stress (physiological and psychological) and without adequate levels you will not be able to fight infection (or function). Make no mistake, you NEED cortisol to live hence why people provide adrenal SUPPORT.
This is the importance of a differential diagnosis. Telling someone their problems are caused by hypothyroidism when it's their adrenals is problematic under certain circumstances and can be deadly even.
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beaches
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posted
quote:Originally posted by emla999/Lyme: Beaches, Dr. Peat highly recommends the eating of most sweet fruits and vegetables such as melons and potatoes. And to him, you can eat sugar if you want to but you don't have too. But he does not recommend that you eat high fructose corn syrup or too many grains. In part because grains contain PUFA's.
And again, I don't rigidly follow Ray or Matt's protocol. But I have found that incorporating some of Matt and Ray's advice into my life has helped me tremendously..... especially the drinking less water/fluid thing. And measuring my urine with a refratometer to determine whether or not I was drinking too much water.
.
emla, if any of this has helped you regain any part of your health, that's great! We are all different and these tick-borne diseases affect everyone differently. So what works for one won't necessarily work for another.
I still have a lot of questions about these guys, but I don't expect you or ninja to answer on their behalf.
I really do question the lower intake of water (unless of course you suffer from a certain condition whose name escapes me at the moment). I personally believe it is very important to flush out toxins via water intake.
But again, if your health has improved b/c of their advice, more power to you. I wish you continued good health!
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Catgirl
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posted
I saw a few youtube videos a few months back by someone who follows Ray Peat (Josh Rubin). Thought they were interesting.
Without reading all the posts above, I wonder if Ray Peat knows about lyme and company? I had yeast pre lyme treatment. I also was bit many times. Each time I got bit, I craved more sugar--feeding the yeast, which may have been keeping everything happy but the itching was a pain.
-------------------- --Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together). Posts: 5418 | From earth | Registered: Mar 2011
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beaches
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posted
quote:Originally posted by ninjaphire:
quote:Originally posted by beaches: I guess I have a problem with any physician believing that Chronic Lyme Disease is bogus.
That alone would be the end of it for me b/c it's my reality and has been for years.
Dr. Peat is not at all against the use of antibiotics. In fact, he recommends the use of doxy/mino/tetracycline/penicillin etc as therapy.
However, he thinks it's the hypothyroid that allows the infection to flourish, and many of our symptoms are actually hypothyroid symptoms.
There are even a number of common symptoms between Lyme and say CFS, perhaps there's a common cause, hypothyroid.
Oh I don't doubt for a minute that there are many, many sx shared by dx like LD/cos and CFS, and we can even throw in other dx like fibro and MS.
But I've been hypo for many, many years! I didn't get LD/cos til decades after that dx. In my case, the hypothyroid dx is genetic.
And does it count with him and Matt that I've had my thyroid function monitored for decades? As well as the thyroid function of my sick kids? And that I and they have been treated for being hypothyroid???
It's really not about whether Peat is for or against abx tx. It's about what he believes fundamentally as a physician.
For me, it's whether or not he "believes" that Chronic Lyme Disease can affect every system and organ in one's body. If he does not, that tells me a great deal.
And that would be the deciding factor/sole reason for me to seek or not seek his opinion/treatment.
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quote:Originally posted by VV: It sounds like you are making the assumption that all patients (or everybody?) is hypothyroid. You are also misunderstanding the fact that cortisol and adrenaline are produced in response to stressful situations.
Cortisol in particular is vital in dealing with stress (physiological and psychological) and without adequate levels you will not be able to fight infection (or function). Make no mistake, you NEED cortisol to live hence why people provide adrenal SUPPORT.
This is the importance of a differential diagnosis. Telling someone their problems are caused by hypothyroidism when it's their adrenals is problematic under certain circumstances and can be deadly even.
Yes, cortisol and adrenaline are produced in response to stressful situations. And they are vital and do help a lot. However, in the long term, your body is significantly weakened by the stress.
So you want to remove the original stress, thus reducing your body's need for the adaptive stress hormones (cortisol etc).
One such stress is hypothyroidism (you might also call it thyroid resistance (high RT3), or low metabolism etc). I suspect we would all fit the classical symptoms of hypothyroid. Low temperature, low metabolism in general, etc
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glm1111
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posted
ninjaphire,
If the adrenal glands are low functioning and not producing much cortisol at all, then trying to help REPLENISH the cortisol and bring them back to a more normal level is NOT patching the hypothyroid symptoms. We are not really talking about OVERPRODUCTION of cortisol here.
If the infections from Lyme are disseminated, the adrenals AND thyroid are most likely infected as well suppressing the whole enodcrine system. You have to get rid of the CAUSE, which is infection.
A low functioning thyroid is most likely a result of inflammation brought about by these infections.
P. S.
Can't imagine that Ray Peats program will get rid of this kind of infection.
The bottom line is, if it works for you, then great!
Gael
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beaches
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For the majority here, I dare say the "original stress" is tick-borne disease.
And we are all trying to remove that for sure.
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beaches
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And ninja, have you considered that s hypothyroid state could very well be an end result of a tick-borne disease?
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emla999/Lyme
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VV you said,
quote: It's in the chain of assumption set up here:
Lyme=Hypothyroidism=Hypoglycemic
You've set up this hypothesis that we suffer from Lyme because we are suffering from a "low metabolism" (hypothyroidism), and we are hypothyroid because we are hypoglycemic, therefore we need to eat more sugar.
I do not believe that hypoglycemia can cause hypothroidism or cause chronic Lyme Disease. Ray Peat and Matt would not say that either. Nor did I mean to insinuate any such a thing. If my posts come across as insinuating that hypoglycemia cause chronic Lyme Disease then please know that I didn't mean to convey that message and I don't believe that hypoglycemia causes chronic Lyme Disease.
But in regards to hypoglycemia, I do known that the body can produce more adrenaline when your blood sugar drops (hypoglycemia). And that hypothyroidism will usually cause a person to have low heart rate. But adrenaline can increase the heart rate and heart disease. So, if your body is producing excessive adrenaline then eating sugar or fruit or something similar may help to lower adrenaline production.
I have been on Lymenet going on 6 years and anybody that has read all of my posts know that I don't exagerate about things and I have tried numerous therapies over the years with little improvement.
And now after years and years of trying numerous other therapies to heal myself of chronic Lyme Disease to no avail. But I have finally found something that has helped me tremendously and that something was to incorprate some Dr. Peat's and Matt's advice into my life. So, started this thread because I felt the need to share this information with everyone here on Lymenet in hopes that it would help someone else.
And all that I am trying to do is bring awareness to something that has helped me and few other chronic Lyme Disease patients to feel alot better.
Why has Ray Peat and Matt's advice helped me and the few other Lyme patients that have tried it?
Well, I can't be 100% why following their advice has helped me or the few other so much but I do know via testing that I was hypothyroid and therefore I had a low metabolism and that I was producing too much adrenaline. And when I treated the low metabolism and hypothroidism and corrected the excessive adrenaline production via following some of Ray Peat and Matt's advice my health improved dramatically.
And after over a decade of trying nearly every type of treatment under the sun I am profoundly grateful and happy to have found a protocol that has finally helped me to regain much of my health back.
And if following some of Ray and Matt's advice helped me then maybe, just maybe it can also help someone else here on Lymenet. But unless more people here on Lymenet are willing to try their protocol(s) then I guess we will never know if their protocol would effective for alot more chronic Lyme Disease patients.
quote:Originally posted by beaches: Oh I don't doubt for a minute that there are many, many sx shared by dx like LD/cos and CFS, and we can even throw in other dx like fibro and MS.
But I've been hypo for many, many years! I didn't get LD/cos til decades after that dx. In my case, the hypothyroid dx is genetic.
And does it count with him and Matt that I've had my thyroid function monitored for decades? As well as the thyroid function of my sick kids? And that I and they have been treated for being hypothyroid???
It's really not about whether Peat is for or against abx tx. It's about what he believes fundamentally as a physician.
For me, it's whether or not he "believes" that Chronic Lyme Disease can affect every system and organ in one's body. If he does not, that tells me a great deal.
And that would be the deciding factor/sole reason for me to seek or not seek his opinion/treatment.
I'm sure that both of them would suspect that you might be getting inadequately treated for the hypothyroid condition.
Are you getting treated with synthroid or dessicated thyroid? Does your doctor prescribe your thyroid medication based on your TSH or do they also take into account Free T3, RT3, symptoms, etc? Because RT3 can block the action of the active thyroid hormone T3. Even excess T4 can cause problems if your liver/thyroid cannot convert it into T3 as needed.
For instance, my TSH is normal at 1.5, but I still do much better on thyroid hormone.
He fundamentally believes that Lyme (and other serious infections) are secondary to a hypothyroid condition. He mentions in one of his interviews that he's given recommendations to Lyme patients, and they improve and eventually they forget about their Lyme diagnosis because their metabolism improves and the symptoms go away.
I think he considers the body as a whole. I definitely believe he would consider that a chronic infection can affect every system in the body. But I cannot vouch for his thought process of course, he hasn't discussed much about lyme specifically.
If you wish, I will PM you his contact information, and you can ask him yourself.
Posts: 330 | From Colorado, USA | Registered: Nov 2008
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quote:Originally posted by VV: It sounds like you are making the assumption that all patients (or everybody?) is hypothyroid. You are also misunderstanding the fact that cortisol and adrenaline are produced in response to stressful situations.
Cortisol in particular is vital in dealing with stress (physiological and psychological) and without adequate levels you will not be able to fight infection (or function). Make no mistake, you NEED cortisol to live hence why people provide adrenal SUPPORT.
This is the importance of a differential diagnosis. Telling someone their problems are caused by hypothyroidism when it's their adrenals is problematic under certain circumstances and can be deadly even.
Yes, cortisol and adrenaline are produced in response to stressful situations. And they are vital and do help a lot. However, in the long term, your body is significantly weakened by the stress.
So you want to remove the original stress, thus reducing your body's need for the adaptive stress hormones (cortisol etc).
One such stress is hypothyroidism (you might also call it thyroid resistance (high RT3), or low metabolism etc). I suspect we would all fit the classical symptoms of hypothyroid. Low temperature, low metabolism in general, etc
You are confusing cortisol as the source of stress.
It is required and made in higher volumes IN RESPONSE TO STRESS, sometimes to the order of 2-3 times the normal amount. If you don't get enough, you can go into shock and die. It is like many substances in the body where you want be within a certain healthy window.
It is not simply a case of always wanting less or always wanting more. The ideal is to support your adrenals so that they are healthy enough to produce adequate amounts when they are called on by the pituitary to do the job.
This need should NEVER be mistaken for hypothyroidism because giving T4 or T3 to one of these patients would make their condition worse.
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If the adrenal glands are low functioning and not producing much cortisol at all, then trying to help REPLENISH the cortisol and bring them back to a more normal level is NOT patching the hypothyroid symptoms. We are not really talking about OVERPRODUCTION of cortisol here.
If the infections from Lyme are disseminated, the adrenals AND thyroid are most likely infected as well suppressing the whole enodcrine system. You have to get rid of the CAUSE, which is infection.
A low functioning thyroid is most likely a result of inflammation brought about by these infections.
Yes, some adrenal support might be useful to bring your cortisol level back up.
However, there are other reasons, unrelated to lyme, why your metabolism would be low. For example too many PUFAs, low carb diet, general dieting to lose weight(!), goitrogens from food like soy, cabbage (and other brassica vegetables), etc. Even overhydration can do it.
There's a catch-22 there. Your body cannot get rid of the bugs if the metabolism is low. And the bugs cause enough damage to keep the metabolism low. So, how do you break out of it? You add in some thyroid hormone and increase your intake of carb (IMO sugar is best, but something like potato might work too) and protein.
I'm just giving you a broad overview though.
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CD57
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posted
I do know that I spent the first few years of my illness in extreme STRESS....ie; my sympathetic nervous system was in overdrive and I was producing large amounts of cortisol. I still am unclear if this was the illness doing it or my reaction to being diagnosed with the illness and reading all the horror stories and symptoms checklists.
They are actually doing a study now on PTSD, which creates large amounts of cortisol and adrenaline, and the long term damage it does to the hypothalamus and brain. Its a vicious cycle that has to be turned off.
So yes I agree with (QUOTE) Yes, cortisol and adrenaline are produced in response to stressful situations. And they are vital and do help a lot. However, in the long term, your body is significantly weakened by the stress. (/QUOTE).
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quote:Originally posted by VV: You are confusing cortisol as the source of stress.
It is required and made in higher volumes IN RESPONSE TO STRESS, sometimes to the order of 2-3 times the normal amount. If you don't get enough, you can go into shock and die. It is like many substances in the body where you want be within a certain healthy window.
It is not simply a case of always wanting less or always wanting more. The ideal is to support your adrenals so that they are healthy enough to produce adequate amounts when they are called on by the pituitary to do the job.
This need should NEVER be mistaken for hypothyroidism because giving T4 or T3 to one of these patients would make their condition worse.
Cortisol is useful and necessary, but it can be damaging all by itself, for example in Cushing's disease.
The ideal is to reduce the need for extra cortisol, so your body can heal itself. I'm saying REDUCE THAT STRESS, thus reducing the need for cortisol.
Yes it's possible for thyroid hormones to make things worse, it just means you have to reduce the stress by other means before you jump on the thyroid accelerator.
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quote:Originally posted by beaches: And ninja, have you considered that s hypothyroid state could very well be an end result of a tick-borne disease?
I guess it's possible. I was tired and not super-healthy much before I got bitten by a tick though. My diet wasn't that good back then. Vegetarian, full of PUFAs etc.
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quote:Originally posted by Catgirl: I saw a few youtube videos a few months back by someone who follows Ray Peat (Josh Rubin). Thought they were interesting.
Without reading all the posts above, I wonder if Ray Peat knows about lyme and company? I had yeast pre lyme treatment. I also was bit many times. Each time I got bit, I craved more sugar--feeding the yeast, which may have been keeping everything happy but the itching was a pain.
I think he believes that Lyme is secondary to a hypothyroid condition. He mentions in one of his interviews that he's given recommendations to Lyme patients, and they improve and eventually they forget about their Lyme diagnosis because their metabolism improves and the symptoms go away.
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beaches
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posted
Quoting ninja:
"I'm sure that both of them would suspect that you might be getting inadequately treated for the hypothyroid condition.
Are you getting treated with synthroid or dessicated thyroid? Does your doctor prescribe your thyroid medication based on your TSH or do they also take into account Free T3, RT3, symptoms, etc? Because RT3 can block the action of the active thyroid hormone T3. Even excess T4 can cause problems if your liver/thyroid cannot convert it into T3 as needed.
For instance, my TSH is normal at 1.5, but I still do much better on thyroid hormone.
He fundamentally believes that Lyme (and other serious infections) are secondary to a hypothyroid condition. He mentions in one of his interviews that he's given recommendations to Lyme patients, and they improve and eventually they forget about their Lyme diagnosis because their metabolism improves and the symptoms go away.
I think he considers the body as a whole. I definitely believe he would consider that a chronic infection can affect every system in the body. But I cannot vouch for his thought process of course, he hasn't discussed much about lyme specifically.
If you wish, I will PM you his contact information, and you can ask him yourself."
Thanks for the detailed response. Yes, we are being treated and monitored.
I don't recall what RT3 is but you can bet I'll now look into it!
I think one of the basic disagreements here is that Peat (quoting you) "fundamentally believes that Lyme (and other serious infections) are secondary to a hypothyroid condition."
I completely and vehemently disagree with that statement.
I think the PRIMARY reason for our collective symptoms is due to tick-borne diseases.
I do not for one minute believe that being hypothyroid is causal.
Thx for the offer, but for personal reasons I will not contact/correspond with any person who would choose to deny my personal reality by not "believing" in Chronic Lyme Disease.
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beaches
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posted
Quoting ninja:
"He mentions in one of his interviews that he's given recommendations to Lyme patients, and they improve and eventually they forget about their Lyme diagnosis because their metabolism improves and the symptoms go away."
Oh OK. Can I get some of whatever Peat and Matt are drinking so my family can eventually forget our collective Lyme dx?
Really? Really?? REALLY???
Should I be shocked, horrified, angry or a combination of all three?
Posts: 1885 | From here | Registered: Jul 2012
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quote:Originally posted by beaches: Quoting ninja:
"He mentions in one of his interviews that he's given recommendations to Lyme patients, and they improve and eventually they forget about their Lyme diagnosis because their metabolism improves and the symptoms go away."
Oh OK. Can I get some of whatever Peat and Matt are drinking so my family can eventually forget our collective Lyme dx?
Really? Really?? REALLY???
Should I be shocked, horrified, angry or a combination of all three?
You shouldn't feel especially offended, he thinks that it's not the bacteria that's at the root cause of disease, it's the terrain (your body). So if you had a high metabolism, then you would have a pretty strong immunity against almost any bacteria, not just lyme. So he's not singling out or especially dismissive of lyme.
This may throw you for a bit of a loop, but he's questioning the whole germ theory of disease more or less.
Posts: 330 | From Colorado, USA | Registered: Nov 2008
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quote:Originally posted by beaches: Quoting ninja:
"He mentions in one of his interviews that he's given recommendations to Lyme patients, and they improve and eventually they forget about their Lyme diagnosis because their metabolism improves and the symptoms go away."
Oh OK. Can I get some of whatever Peat and Matt are drinking so my family can eventually forget our collective Lyme dx?
Really? Really?? REALLY???
Should I be shocked, horrified, angry or a combination of all three?
You shouldn't feel especially offended, he thinks that it's not the bacteria that's at the root cause of disease, it's the terrain (your body). So if you had a high metabolism, then you would have a pretty strong immunity against almost any bacteria, not just lyme. So he's not singling out or especially dismissive of lyme.
This may throw you for a bit of a loop, but he's questioning the whole germ theory of disease more or less.
Let's question the theory of gravity while we're at it! Posts: 922 | From Philadelphia | Registered: Sep 2012
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quote:Originally posted by VV: Let's question the theory of gravity while we're at it!
It comes back to this: Some people get sick, some people don't. Why?
Posts: 330 | From Colorado, USA | Registered: Nov 2008
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beaches
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 38251
posted
ninja, everything about this throws me for a loop.
I do think there is something to be said about "the terrain" and I know firsthand of people who were bit by ticks back in the day who are still well. That itself brings up even more questions.
I do personally believe that it is indeed the bacterium inflicted upon us by ticks that took my family down.
I am not offended by Peat, Matt or any of you. I am happy if anyone here has success with any type of treatment/modality. God knows, we've all been through the ringer a time or two,
I just have some fundamental disagreements with Peat and Matt.
And it's a really good thing that people have remained civil on this thread. It's been very difficult to do so for sure.
Posts: 1885 | From here | Registered: Jul 2012
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posted
beaches, it took me several years to convince myself, so I'm not expecting much more than to plant a seed of doubt.
Posts: 330 | From Colorado, USA | Registered: Nov 2008
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beaches
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 38251
posted
OK ninja, I understand and accept that.
I personally will leave this alone and will give it time.
Posts: 1885 | From here | Registered: Jul 2012
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glm1111
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 16556
posted
I am with beaches. I really find it hard to believe that raising your metabolism can get rid of a vicious infection of Filarial Worms that have layed eggs and larva by the thousands such as pictured on www.lymephotos.com
This reminds me of Dr Robert Youngs PH Miracle alkanilizing program (changing the inner terrain)that states almost the same thing.
I followed it religously, did the diet, drank the greens with the ph drops and it didn't even begin to touch these infections.
Gael
-------------------- PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS* Posts: 6418 | From philadelphia pa | Registered: Jul 2008
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emla999/Lyme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 12606
posted
Hypothyroidism lowers the immune system and thus makes people more susceptible to contracting infectious diseases and being hypothyroid will make it more difficult for a person to overcome infectious illnesses.
Dr. Broda Barnes treated people with many different types of infectious illnesses by givening those people desiccated thyroid and by correcting their hypothyroidism.
You can read more about Dr. Broda Barnes and his use of desiccated thyroid to treat people of infectious illness by clicking on the link directly down bellow and by reading pages 88 through 102.
quote:Originally posted by glm1111: I am with beaches. I really find it hard to believe that raising your metabolism can get rid of a vicious infection of Filarial Worms that have layed eggs and larva by the thousands such as pictured on www.lymephotos.com
He was suggesting occasional use of a pinch of flowers of sulphur (sublimed sulphur) as an anti-parasite in an interview.
I was mainly talking about bacterial infection. Yes, parasites are a problem.
Posts: 330 | From Colorado, USA | Registered: Nov 2008
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emla999/Lyme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 12606
posted
Yes, Dr. Peat does recommend taking flowers of sulphur as an anti-parasitic but he is also a big advocate of increasing your daily salt intake.
And many people consider salt to be an anti-parasitic.
quote:Originally posted by VV: Let's question the theory of gravity while we're at it!
It comes back to this: Some people get sick, some people don't. Why?
It would be incredibly convenient if it all boiled down one cause and we could treat all illness with a magic bullet. Unfortunately, this is not the reality. The answer to your question is multifaceted, and still far from being understood.
Genetics and environment are studied as causes for illness. Some people draw the short straw in their genes. Some people are in the wrong place at the wrong time. In many cases, it is a complex mix between the two.
To insinuate that hypothyroidism is the cause of all illness is incredibly short-sighted. It sounds like you are walking around with a hammer and everything has become a nail.
Posts: 922 | From Philadelphia | Registered: Sep 2012
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quote:Originally posted by VV: It would be incredibly convenient if it all boiled down one cause and we could treat all illness with a magic bullet. Unfortunately, this is not the reality. The answer to your question is multifaceted, and still far from being understood.
Genetics and environment are studied as causes for illness. Some people draw the short straw in their genes. Some people are in the wrong place at the wrong time. In many cases, it is a complex mix between the two.
To insinuate that hypothyroidism is the cause of all illness is incredibly short-sighted. It sounds like you are walking around with a hammer and everything has become a nail.
It's not a magic bullet or a panacea. It's a very useful tool, one that is currently rather underused.
Ray Peat is also not against using say antibiotics, because bacteria do wear you down over time.
The problem with genetics is that it's been a while, but we haven't found genes for most diseases, let alone a susceptibility to lyme. That's kindof odd, don't you think?
Posts: 330 | From Colorado, USA | Registered: Nov 2008
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"...one important observation on sugar -- per the book -- 'Consuming 90 grams of honey or fruit sugar (or fruit juice) or regular sucrose will cause a drop by up to 50 percent in white blood cell activity for between one and five hours.'"
Sugar does not sound like a great way to treat chronic illness, now does it?
Posts: 922 | From Philadelphia | Registered: Sep 2012
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quote:Originally posted by VV: Why would that be odd?
There have been a number of studies, most of them only found genotypes that only vary the probability of disease by a few percent. So genetics is possibly not as important as thought.
Posts: 330 | From Colorado, USA | Registered: Nov 2008
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