posted
Hi everyone, I have a couple of issues I 'd like to hear your opinion on. I am now in my 13th week of babesia treatment (mepron/zihtro). Several thingd worked out as other users had indicated -relatively strong "herx" after 3,5 weeks; -tough time between 5th and 9th week -good improvement since beginning of this week
The last week was pretty bad with something that felt rather like a relapse than a herx (Fluish feeling the entire week). I am wondering what is going on, can it be a resistance? Another aspect makes me wonder: During the 12 weeks, whether at good or bad times, I was dealing with bad acne which has now vanished, but as I said before, I feel worse.
I have also tested positive for Candida spec. and Entamoeba histolytica/dispar. (not for the cysts though) but have not treated these so far.
Your opinions are welcome, thanks a lot. Kern
Posts: 78 | From Germany | Registered: Feb 2012
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posted
Kern-this is just my experience and others will be better at helping you I'm sure. Have you treated bart? Around the 12th week of babs treatment, I just felt "different", like something had changed but not necessarily better by any means.
A few weeks after that, I got more classic bart symptoms-anxiety, sore soles, etc. I really feel like that was when bart made it's presence known to me. I had tested neg on bart tests. Just my experience.
Hang in there
Posts: 238 | From new england | Registered: Feb 2013
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posted
Thanks didogs, I had suspected bart before. Since I am on Zithro, I hope that bart (if present) is hit as well.
I will see what happens. I experienced a strang symptom the past days. I have a feeling in the left foot that comes and goes in the speed of pulse/heart beats.
I realize it only while standing, it feels as if a subway is running a couple of feet beneath my foot. Weird...
Posts: 78 | From Germany | Registered: Feb 2012
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Sammi
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 110
posted
Thirteen weeks is not that long for Babs treatment in my opinion. Most people need to treat it for much longer for it to be effective. I believe that Babs symptoms cycle more frequently than Lyme.
Sometimes when you are treating one infection, symptoms of other infections get stronger.
Always let your doctor know what is going on. I think you should keep on keeping on. It takes time to eradicate Babs.
Posts: 4682 | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
thanks Sammi, I also hope to be on the right track. As you all may know, if one could only be sure to be on the right track, one could cope much better with this disease .
Posts: 78 | From Germany | Registered: Feb 2012
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TF
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 14183
posted
Some possible causes of feeling worse:
candida
4 week lyme flares
babesia flares
I would not worry about resistance because you are on zith. However, it is possible you may have to increase the amount of mepron you are taking. You don't say how much you are taking. Or, you could add Bactrim DS to the treatment. Bactrim also hits bart.
If you can chart your lyme flares (every 28 days or so) and mark them on the calendar in advance (write "bad day" or "lyme flare due"), then you will have a lot less anxiety when the lyme flares hit. You will expect it and know what it is. If you don't keep track of these things, you can end up worrying about a relapse or worse things. Not a good thing.
Also, my babs flares were first noticeable when I went on babs treatment! They became unbelievable. They lasted for 48 hours each. But, others could have longer flares. So, mark these days on the calendar as bad days and then wait to see if you see any particular cycle to the bad days.
If you have candida, it will make you feel worse. You can put some Oil of Oregano in an ounce or 2 of water (about 3 drops) and swish that around in your mouth for a good while to kill the candida in your mouth. Then, swallow it to kill the candida in the intestinal tract. Do this twice per day.
If your tongue has a white coating, you have to scrub it off with peroxide and water and scrub the entire inside of your mouth like Burrascano describes near the end of his Guidelines document to kill the yeast. Then, open a probiotic capsule onto your tongue and let it dissolve there.
The feeling in your foot is a neuropathy (false sensation). This is common with lyme, so maybe your lyme is flaring or you need to add lyme treatment to your babs treatment. Most lyme docs treat lyme and babs together.
Below I am posting the notes I took on last year's Lyme Conference topic of Babesiosis. Maybe these notes will give you some food for thought.
2011 ILADS Conference, Toronto, Canada
Lyme & Babesiosis: Updates on Treatment & Diagnosis 2011
Dr. H 10/28/11
He has 20 years of experience treating lyme; >12,000 chronic patients He was in France and China discussing babesiosis. Talked with Chinese CDC regarding parasites
Some of his patients get better with glutathione alone. It opens up the detox pathways (is an anti-oxidant)
Borrelia miyamotoi is showing up in ticks in Hyde Park, NY. This strain is in Japan. We can�t test for it.
There is a new ehrlichia species also found.
Indicators of bad outcome with babesiosis:
male sex, extremely high WBC
We see blood transfusion babesiosis in California. WA-1 is now in the Northeast U.S.. It is found along the entire eastern seaboard. It is difficult to get a positive test for it. LabCorp has a WA-1 test. The FISH through Igenex is also very useful.
He treats with clindamycin with azithromycin, also Mepron, then malarone. There is lots of Mepron resistance. So, he adds Septra (Bactrim). This works well. Also, he uses much higher doses of Mepron due to the Mepron resistance.
He uses coartem (which has Artemisinin in it) Dosage is 4 twice per day. Take at 7 a.m. and 3 p.m.; then switch to 7 a.m. and 7 p.m. It can be pulsed once per month.
You can�t combine this with any med that affects the QT interval.
Babs is spreading world-wide. Babs also suppresses the immune system (based on a study of b. microti)
Artemisinin is not as effective now as it was in the past. Use art when coartem doesn�t cure the person. He no longer uses ketek.
Beta blockers (blood pressure medicines) control these types of parasites. So, use them as an antagonist. We need a study on this. Heparin may also inhibit babs. Need a large study on this.
Curcumin (a herb)--he is now using it to treat babs. Published studies show it is useful for malaria.
Cryptolepis has been used in Africa for malaria. There is a published study in Ghana. It had a 93% cure rate (a 50% cure rate in 3 days; 90% cure rate in 7 days) You can get it at: www.woodlandessence.com
If adrenal function is low (patient has a low cortisol), they will not respond to antibiotics.
He told of a patient with intractable babs. They were treated for babs for 5 years and were not cured. Then, he gave them 1 teaspoon of cryptolepis 3 times per day with Byron White herbs. This is making the patient feel well. He hasn�t found any side effects with the cryptolepis. It may not be curative. It lowers the parasite load and strengthens the patient�s immune system.
Brucellosis also causes night sweats, so check for this in a patient with night sweats.
Use malarone for the patient who can�t clear babs. Low dose to maintain them.
We need new treatment options for babs.
Posts: 9931 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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TF
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 14183
posted
Also, you need to be on artemisinin a number of days per week or something similar. If not on art, then on something that contains art.
Here is where Burrascano says art is required:
"Blood counts, liver panels and amylase levels are recommended every three weeks during any prolonged course of therapy as liver enzymes may elevate. Treatment failures usually are related to inadequate atovaquone levels. Therefore, patients who are not cured with this regimen can be retreated with higher doses (and atovaquone blood levels can be checked), as this has proven effective in many of my patients. Artemesia (a nonprescription herb) should be added in all cases. Metronidazole or Bactrim can also be added to increas efficacy, but there is minimal clinical data on how much more effective this will be." (page 24)
I took art for 3 days in a row every week. That's how I got rid of the babs flares. I also got rid of babs, lyme, etc.
So, it is very important that you add in some art if you are to get rid of babs.
Posts: 9931 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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posted
Thanks a lot TF for that input, i will restart Art next week. I remember you also to be the person who indicated that week 5-9 will be tough in babs treatment and other information about babs, right? I feel you are very knowledgable when it comes to babs. Btw I am on 2 teaspoons/twice daily, taken with 300mg zith (600 a day).
Posts: 78 | From Germany | Registered: Feb 2012
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TF
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 14183
posted
No, I am not the person who told you these things.
Posts: 9931 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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gmb
Unregistered
posted
My LLMD told me to double dose Mepron (2tsp twice a day) for a minimum 6 months. I went 8 months double with 3 months before that at single dose. I've also been taking Bactrim DS as TF recommends.
I was doing a lot better, but still had a ways to go.
I just stopped the Mepron/Zith and started Cryptoleptis (ramped up to 30 drops twice a day). I need to ranp up to 1 tsp 3 times per day. I now feel like crap again with fatigue and sore tired/heavy muscles. I think I just ptaeaued on the Mepron.
Next week I'll add Sida Acuta. I'll try this combo for 3 months. If that don't help, I'll switch herbs over to Alinia.
I may have previously commented that my weeks 5 thru 9 on my first round on Mepron were the worse.
posted
thanks gmb for your answer. I agree babs is very tough. Will you restart mepron in combination with the other drugs you mentioned?
Posts: 78 | From Germany | Registered: Feb 2012
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posted
Kern33, I too developed acne during babs treatment and never had it before. I think this is probably common.Good health to you!
Posts: 342 | From northern california | Registered: Dec 2010
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posted
Thank you norcal. To me it makes sense that it is the dead babesia that comes out of the skins. Have you finally defeated babesia?
Posts: 78 | From Germany | Registered: Feb 2012
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