posted
Since diagnosed with Lyme a few months ago, I have pondered a great deal about why I am completely disabled from it. I cannot help but wonder, are MOST of the population infected with Lyme, being that it is a worldwide pandemic? The more I think about it and learn, it seems like it very well might be that the majority of the population has been infected with Tick-Borne Illness, but a smaller percentage is bedridden like myself. Would others agree? I then wonder if antibiotics are enough to treat this condition. Because clearly something beyond the infection (something in my body/environment, etc.) is causing me to be THIS sick. Also assuming that I got infected or got reinfected with a particularly virulent strain of Lyme and coinfections. My LLMD does address issues beyond antibiotics. However, I am beginning to think that antibiotics may just be one piece of a terribly complicated puzzle. Do others think this way? Thanks.
Posts: 138 | From Connecticut | Registered: Dec 2012
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Lymedin2010
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 34322
posted
I am willing to make the same bet. I see many kinds of bacteria in the various blood smears that I have done for "healthy" individuals.
I think many people can have any of the co-infections or Borrelia. It is not until the combination of the package is added, that one has the true potential to get sick.
Then it is a matter of environmental factors, diet, prior injuries, exposure to other organisms (outside of the Lyme arena), metals and other toxins, stress, and other factors that can sway the immune system to go in the wrong direction.
Here are just some reasons why some remain sick:
1) One may have a very aggressive or never before seen version of Borrelia or any of the Co-infections. Even a combination of multiple Borrelia strains.
2) One may have a totally different organism on top of the known ones that cause Lyme & it may never get treated with the arsenal that we typically use.
3) Parasites.
4) Borrelia could have acquired one of your surface proteins by DNA swap & it would render your immune sys useless in defending against it. Attacking this deviated morphology would mean attacking your own body.
5) ABX that do not treat all the forms or DNA variations of Borrelia.
6) Toxicity & metals.
7) If you have a pocket of infection ANYWHERE in your body. From your tooth to your toes, where Borrelia & company can nest and form biofilm. It becomes a powerhouse & major source of continual infection. You can treat forever, but it will constantly pump out organisms & form further pockets in different areas of your body.
Posts: 2087 | From NY | Registered: Oct 2011
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- If the infection(s) were treated with the extreme respect they demand, a lot of damage can be prevented.
Lyme is usually not treated with the combination of the right antibiotic requires at high enough doses for long enough. All forms of lyme are usually not even acknowledged and when a single antibiotic is used short term, it pretty much guarantees the cystic form will come back with a vengence.
And, yes, abx can pose risk and their own damage - so it's important to also explore OTHER ways such as RIFE, herbs, etc. but the point is that if the infection is not treated aggressively we can mess around with it for the rest of our lives.
All the support in the world will not directly address infection yet we must have support to be able to tolerate any method of treatment.
And, if liver & kidney & adrenal & nerve fiber & heart support could be adminsitered from the start, all the better. Even before starting anti-infective therapy.
Probiobics, too. How has the general medical community so ignored this?
By the time of diagnosis, of course, all systems are damaged and major support is essential but may not be enough, either. Damage may not be able to be corrected all the way. But it's possible so we have to keep trying.
Clearly, we don't have all the answers but if ILADS doctors were able to address this properly, we'd be in much better shape. But many states will not all even one doctor to treat as an ILADS doctor would without the political or insurance interference.
And we do still have so much to learn. Tick-borne and chronic stealth infections are very complex.
posted
Thanks so much for taking the time to answer my questions. I really appreciate it.
Lymedin2010-do you then see some people as hopeless in ever recovering? such a good explanation, btw. thank you so much.
keebler - so true. much more needs to be learned. all so very sad and frustrating. a true nightmare.
Posts: 138 | From Connecticut | Registered: Dec 2012
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Razzle
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 30398
posted
I would add toxins to this list of reasons we may not improve:
Heavy Metals
EMF's (I think problems with EMF's go hand-in-hand with heavy metals)
Chemicals (plastics, pesticides, etc.)
GMO's
Genetic predisposition to difficulty detoxing toxins: Methylation, KPU/HPU, HLA haplotypes
Also, how does one address the issue of borrelia-human hybrid DNA? I mean, how do you treat a patient who has this issue?
-------------------- -Razzle Lyme IgM IGeneX Pos. 18+++, 23-25+, 30++, 31+, 34++, 39 IND, 83-93 IND; IgG IGeneX Neg. 30+, 39 IND; Mayo/CDC Pos. IgM 23+, 39+; IgG Mayo/CDC Neg. band 41+; Bart. (clinical dx; Fry Labs neg. for all coinfections), sx >30 yrs. Posts: 4166 | From WA | Registered: Feb 2011
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desertwind
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 25256
posted
I agree. I think once we become chronic we begin to experience a host of secondary infections and/or silent conditions begin to emerge.
After a while it becomes difficult to separate everything. How about drug induced liver damage from all the abx,s we need to be on. Those sx can feel like a herx et al.
Posts: 1671 | From Tick Infested New Jersey | Registered: Apr 2010
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Lymedin2010
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 34322
posted
Yes, my list is by no means a completed list. It simply serves to point out some reasons. Very good alternative examples have been given.
Once it acquires & even uses your own DNA & proteins within the bacteria, or as part of the biofilm, then the only possible way that I can imagine is with cancer drugs. Those drugs can kill your own cells & that is the point in cancer type treatment. Kill your healthy cells & hopefully get most of the cancer. To the point where once the drugs are removed, your own immune system can handle the rest.
There is NO guarantee this will work & you run the risk of getting cancer as well.
Alternatively, scientist can look at what substances are needed & can be imported into the biofilm channels. If they can substitute a bacteria needed compound that can readily pass the channel & not harm your own body, then you increase your chances. If there is a better drug that can pass and harm the bacteria through those channels, again better chances.
Dr Eva Sapi (from the University of CT) did a test on Borrelia & biofilm. She noticed that when they form their colonies & biofilm, that it is a lot tougher to eradicate than was imagined. Increasing ABX to 1000X the normal human dosage did not destroy the biofilm & hence the bacteria. Even CLOROX could not kill the biofilm & bacteria. Keep in mind that this is all in test tube, it does not account for things such as this. What if the biofilm forms between muscles & you have a regular workout program designed for Lyme, then the constant rubbing & heat from the exercise can break it up into smaller pieces, where it could have a greater chance of being removed/killed off.
If the same biofilm forms in your sinuses or the root of your tooth, it does not stand as good a chance of being broken down by mechanics & it is more likely to be left untouched and continue to be the source of constant reinfection.
It is important to never loose hope and always keep a positive attitude. Worry, stress, or depression can work against you. Keep in mind there are others who were really ill and almost gave up themselves, but they were fortunate enough to make it through. All things had to come in proper order & alignment for that to take place.
One word of advice that I can give, after dealing with this for years & dealing with serious illness for 2 years now is this. Make sure you get plenty of rest & sleep any which way you can and do not overwork your body. Overworking your body will cause your immune system to lag behind & it spreads further. Don't physically or mentally overwork yourself and stay away from stressful people and from those that upset you.
I see every step that you take as a percentage gain in the hurdle and battle of Lyme vs your immune sys. No overwork/stress might be assigned 5-10%, eating right 3-7%, excercise 3-9%, eating very little sugars & carbs 15-20%. The percentages are different for everyone, but the point is that it is your objective to rack up the percentages in your favor. This is what I have seen from those who were extremely sick and got well. They all did a combo of things to sway the balance to their advantage, not just simply take ABX.
Posts: 2087 | From NY | Registered: Oct 2011
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posted
I think it just comes down to genetics, those who can detox the Lyme antigen won't get sick from it. The antigen is a neurotoxin, if your body can't eliminate it you will get sick.
21% of people have these genes. The same goes for mold 24% have those genes. If you are really lucky you have them both. Not.
Posts: 845 | From Northeast | Registered: May 2011
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