posted
I am leery of using a starter for my fermented vegetables because they all contain either sugar or dairy (whey). I know "most" of it is eliminated, but I react pretty severely to either one.
I was wondering if anyone knew if it's OK to just use a dairy free probiotic?
"You can also made salt-free cultured vegetables without whey as long as you use some sort of acid, such as lemon juice, to prevent spoilage before the lactobacilli take over."
I didn't use either. I'm wondering if my veggies are safe?
His recipe has a lot of salt and I don't do well with salt. It makes me swell up.. esp my danged feet!
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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posted
I've made both sauerkraut and kimchi and never used any whey, nor lemon juice as I recall. Just the salt. As long as you keep the vegetables carefully submerged, as per directions, there shouldn't be any bacteria problems. Sometimes a little scum forms but you can easily clean that off, which is why you want to check it every day.
If you don't want to eat salt, I don't think you want to eat fermented veggies--that is how it's done. I use natural sea salt of course.
Posts: 261 | From Nebraska | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
Salt is used to kill bacteria, preserve it I think - which is why Donna Gates suggests considering using no salt
I'm not sure about the stomach burning. I know if it goes bad vs. if it's good I think I read there's a pH difference.
I am not sure about the dairy. She said the bacteria eat any remaining dairy if there is any. I don't see why you couldn't use a probiotic for starter. It might work!
You'll know you've got lots of good bacteria when you can hear it bubble when you open the jar.
My sister was concerned once about "botulism" in hers and that's when I read about the pH difference.
Just read the article... I see what you're saying.. You want to avoid spoilage BEFORE the lactobaccili take over meaning once they start multiplying, they've got it under control...
Well isn't that the point?
Sauerkraut is somewhere between "fresh" and "rotten".
If you are concerned yours is rotten I would toss it. Next batch you can add a probiotic in there and test it. In theory, it should culture!
Posts: 631 | From the south | Registered: Nov 2008
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posted
Thanks for the theory!! I think it should work too. Why wouldn't it????
My sauerkraut SEEMS to be OK. I just don't know.
I'll do some reading on the pH... thanks for the tip!
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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Ellen101
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 35432
posted
I know this came up before, but I'm confused when dealing with candida it says avoid fermented foods, is this true?
Posts: 1748 | From United States | Registered: Dec 2011
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posted
Ellen I think it's best to avoid fermented things made out of yeast, like beer. These cultured vegetables are culturing the good bacteria.
Much better than pills as the bacteria in the veggies can "latch on" to your gut wall and hopefully stay there to live.
Posts: 631 | From the south | Registered: Nov 2008
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posted
All I know is I'm going to start fermenting the crap out of some vegetables and look into metals. THIS IS NEVER ENDING.
Posts: 631 | From the south | Registered: Nov 2008
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Version 1 3 heads green cabbage, shredded in a food processor 1 bunch kale, chopped by hand (optional): 2 cups wakame ocean vegetables (measured after soaking), drained, spine removed, and chopped 1 Tbsp. dill weed
Verison 2 3 heads green cabbage, shredded in a food processor 6 carrots, large, shredded in a food processor 3 inch piece ginger, peeled and chopped 6 cloves garlic, peeled and chopped
To Make Cultured Vegetables 1. Combine all ingredients in a large bowl
2. Remove several cups of this mixture and put into a blender.
3. Add enough filtered water to make a "brine" the consistency of a thick juice. Blend well and then add brine back into the first mixture. Stir well.
4. Pack mixture down into a glass or stainless steel container. Use your fist, a wooden dowel, or a potato masher to pack veggies tightly.
5. Fill container almost full, but leave about 2 inches of room at the top for veggies to expand.
6. Roll up several cabbage leaves into a tight "log" and place them on top to fill the remaining 2 inch space. Clamp jar closed.
7. Let veggies sit at about a 70 degree room temperature for at least three days. A week is even better. Refrigerate to slow down fermentation. Enjoy!
Here's a ten-minute video on how to make the vegetables:
The salt kills the bad bacteria, but allows the lactobacilli to florish.
I innoculate ours with Culturelle and Align.
-------------------- 13 yo DX PANS/Tourette's/Asperger's/ADHD treated for Igenex positive bartonella/IND lyme with 2 years of abx treatment. Weaned off abx April 2013 at 80% improvement. Continuing with Buhner bartonella/babesia protocols. Aug 2014 99% improvement. Posts: 265 | From Canada, Ontario | Registered: Jul 2013
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posted
Thanks for the links - going to work on this myself as I am excluding most dairy due to intolerance.
Posts: 118 | From New England | Registered: Apr 2013
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RZR
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 20953
posted
I have VSL #3 I would like to add to my sauerkraut. How much would you recommend per quart jar?
How much fermented foods should we eat in a day? I could eat an entire quart jar. It's like my body craves this stuff. I love it!
-------------------- Tick bite May 2009 Diagnosed June 2009 Posts: 2329 | From SouthEast | Registered: Jun 2009
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posted
That is wonderful, RZR! I still get acid reflux from mine, so I have to be careful not to eat too much.
Donna Gates of Body Ecology Diet says to "take 1/2 cup daily with meals." Soooo... several of us on the diet took it to mean 1/2 cup with EACH meal. But just recently we thought.. HMM>>>> maybe it's 1/2 cup a day??
So we are checking on that info.
I HAVE eaten as much as a cup a day. I think as long as your gut can take it, then go for it.
Are you only making one jar at a time?? I open ONE probiotic capsule (50 billion CFU's) per BATCH. My batches are usually 8-10 small jars.
If you add too much, the jars will overflow or burst! (I haven't had one burst on me yet because I slightly open them if they are bending the lid or something.)
So.. maybe just a tsp for one jar... 2 tbsp for a whole batch. I know VSL#3 is very potent.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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RZR
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 20953
posted
Thank you, Lymetoo. Yes, I better cut down on the amount I am eating. I have also been eating it on an empty stomach thinking I would get the most benefits from it that way.
I am only shredding about 2 cabbages at a time, and that only makes about 2 quart jars for me. I did add a little VSL this time. I'll see how it tastes in about a week. Thanks again!
-------------------- Tick bite May 2009 Diagnosed June 2009 Posts: 2329 | From SouthEast | Registered: Jun 2009
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GretaM
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Member # 40917
posted
I want to make fermented veggies but I can't for the life of me find glass jars with plastic lids.
All the glass jars I find have metal lids.
Where do you get your jars for your veggies?
Posts: 4358 | From British Columbia, Canada | Registered: Jun 2013
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-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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GretaM
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 40917
posted
Oh that's awesome news!
I will just use the jars I have now.
Couple of questions-are the cabbage leaves necessary at the top? Does it keep the smaller veggie bits from floating up?
And do I put half a capsule of probiotics in there and mix thoroughly with the brine mixture, or can I just dump it in? Also mine are mixed culture probiotics-is this still OK?
Thanks Posts: 4358 | From British Columbia, Canada | Registered: Jun 2013
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GretaM
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 40917
posted
Up.
Still some questions Posts: 4358 | From British Columbia, Canada | Registered: Jun 2013
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posted
I'm using Plastic Storage Caps by Ball and I found them at the local general store. You can get them for regular or wide mouth jars and they fit quart and-or pint size and maybe more. They seem pretty nonreactive.
Posts: 705 | From WA state | Registered: Jul 2011
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GretaM
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posted
Hey! I'm so excited! I just made my first jar
Now the waiting...argh...
I massaged the veggies with salt like Sandor Katz did in his video.
I used cabbage, shredded beet, shredded carrot and a sliced onion, and some cauliflower bits.
Posts: 4358 | From British Columbia, Canada | Registered: Jun 2013
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posted
I place my jars in an 8 X 10 baking pan/sheet. Did you leave room for expansion?
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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GretaM
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Member # 40917
posted
Oh! Good idea about the pan.
I did leave expansion room.
If there is too much probiotics will the juice or the veggies expand quickly and fill the jar?
Posts: 4358 | From British Columbia, Canada | Registered: Jun 2013
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GretaM
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posted
Help!
I don't think my batch is any good!
The cabbage leaf and above-cabbage leaf is quite smooth and the liquid is clear...
Below the cabbage leaf, with the shredded veggies, there are a lot of floaty spongy looking brown things in the liquid.
The texture of the veggies has completely changed-they look spongy and brown-ish.
I don't know if I should throw it out and start again. It's been 3 days.
Posts: 4358 | From British Columbia, Canada | Registered: Jun 2013
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posted
My wife recently started making fermented foods. She makes Kombucha, sauerkraut and kefir. I drink about 12 oz Kombucha everyday and have about a cup of kefir a day. I started eating and drinking fermented foods after my Lyme reappeared and I am again on antibiotics and my doc added Malarone. I am not feeling any better since re-starting the ABX and wondering if the large amount of probiotic foods could be interfering with my antibiotics? Does anyone have any experience or knowledge of this interaction? I read a bit about Kombucha and have a feeling it's not good to drink while on antibiotics. Not sure though.
Posts: 4 | From Allentown, PA | Registered: Oct 2013
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posted
Kombucha contained too much sugar for me. Perhaps it is causing problems for you as well. Kefir could also be a problem if you are sensitive to dairy. I can't handle that one either.
But the most likely reason for your not feeling well is the herxing. Since you just added malarone, you are probably having a babesia herx. They are the worst!
PS .. Maybe it would help to eat the probiotic-filled foods 2 hours away from antibiotics?? Perhaps not necessary, but you could try it.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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posted
Thanks, Lymetoo. Kombucha doesn't retain the sugar that's added to ferment. In fact it's very tart with no sweetness at all so I don't think it's the sugar. I thought about the possibility of herxing and I think you are right. Since I never took Malarone before it could be a babesia herx. I'm going to try stopping the kefir and kombucha and sauerkraut and just keep taking my probiotic pills and see if I feel any better at least try it for a few days. Thanks again.
Posts: 4 | From Allentown, PA | Registered: Oct 2013
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posted
I wouldn't stop the sauerkraut! You do NOT want candida!
My kombucha was sweet . . at least to me. I think I brewed it 7 days. If you go longer it will be more tart. Kombucha is a "wild ferment" so it can add yeast that your gut may not be able to handle.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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MichaelTampa
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 24868
posted
It's been many years since I've tried to make my own fermented veggies, but I am taking Bubbies brand fermented cabbage and pickes and also custom brand probiotics, and that has made my digestion work well for the first time since ... at least some decades, as long as I can remember.
I don't get the results unless I use both the probiotics and the Bubbies. Either one by itself doesn't work.
Posts: 1927 | From se usa | Registered: Mar 2010
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surprise
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Member # 34987
posted
Thank you for sharing that, Michael- off to buy Bubbies tomorrow, inspired to try it, not one to make it for various reasons,
have the CP probiotics already-
-------------------- Lyme positive PCR blood, and positive Bartonella henselae Igenex, 2011. low positive Fry biofilm test, 2012. Update 7/16- After extensive treatments, doing okay! Posts: 2518 | From USA | Registered: Nov 2011
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posted
I hear ya. It's not my favorite food!! I don't even like pickles!!
It took several months to even tolerate it.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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TNT
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Member # 42349
posted
I don't understand why my homemade sauerkraut makes me gassy- with really foul-smelling gas. The gas smells like a sulfur pit. Do you think it is the cabbage and that I'm heterozygous on CBS 699? (The sauerkraut is not rotten-and it tastes really good!!)
Posts: 1308 | From Eastern USA | Registered: Oct 2013
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Carol in PA
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 5338
posted
TNT, have you tried drinking Kefir?
That replaces gut bacteria and reduced gas for me. I have not tried homemade saurkraut.
Posts: 6947 | From Lancaster, PA | Registered: Feb 2004
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TNT
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 42349
posted
Thanks Carol,
I like kefir(homemade and store-bought), but my bowels have not been able to tolerate it for about a year. It makes my bowels loose. Though, I haven't tried it lately, so not sure how I would tolerate it.
Posts: 1308 | From Eastern USA | Registered: Oct 2013
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Beverly
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Member # 1271
posted
very interesting.
-------------------- God Bless You! Everything..is just my opinion. Posts: 6638 | From Michigan | Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
Very good, Greta!! I love the dill too!! I agree on wishing I'd been eating them all my life. I'm German and my mom did not carry on the tradition. Dang it.
posted
I have 2 questions about fermented food and antibiotic. I am taking amoxicillen and probiotics. I was told that if I take the probiotics too close to the antibiotic the probiotics would cancel out the antibiotics. I have some kimchee fermenting and wonder if I need to make sure to eat it 2 hours after the antibiotic?
Ok another question. We make our own kraut but once it has fermented we heat it up and can it. Does that kill off all of the probiotic qualities of the kraut?
Posts: 23 | From hagerstown, md | Registered: Aug 2014
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posted
Thank you. I will eat some kimchee at lunch.
Next time we make kraut, some is going into the fridge before the rest gets canned. Last year my sister picked up a tray of cabbage plants for the garden. The same day our uncle brought home a tray of cabbage plants and our mom brought home a tray of cabbage plants. We had cabbage coming out our ears last year. Did not need to make any kraut this year.
Posts: 23 | From hagerstown, md | Registered: Aug 2014
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-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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Ellen101
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Member # 35432
posted
A word of caution with fermented foods. If there is a chance you have SIBO, (small intestinal bacterial overgrowth) eat with caution. http://www.siboinfo.com/symptoms.htmlPosts: 1748 | From United States | Registered: Dec 2011
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-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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Brussels
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 13480
posted
Thank you all for the valuable info.
Anyone here is drinking the juice of it?
What are you favorite veggies to ferment?
I am using broccoli, and even beet root (all raw), they do taste good.
Has anyone used Chinese cabbage? I just wonder if they will stand fermentation (specially the green parts...)
Posts: 6199 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007
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